My Boy Joe 15 Days old and still low supply

[myboyjoe]

I had my son on the 12th of April and he latched on great an hour after birth. I was so proud. When I brought him home he was wanting to nurse every 45 minutes to an hour. Needless to say I didn't sleep for the first 2 days and I'm a single mom on top of that. Now I'm using formula, but he's up to almost 4 oz. in each feeding every three hours. When I do nurse (I normally pump every 2 hours) he doesn't get enough and gets frustrated. I only get an ounce from both breasts every 2 hours, I know that is not enough for much of anything. All I can really say is that Joe would rather nurse and there isn't any nipple confusion, he even takes a NUK. I would rather nurse and still have my heart set on it. But my 6 pound 14 ounce boy is almost 7 and a half pounds already and growing like a weed.

I'm really starting to get frustrated, how long does it normally take for a mother's milk to come in ?

[RedheadbyChoice]

How often are you nursing? What a mom pumps isn't the final indicator of her milk supply.
How often is Joe getting formula? And how much?

[KerryS]

Being able to pump an ounce is actually not bad. Right now, your baby probably only needs 20-25 oz of milk per day. What you pump is not a good indicator of what you're able to produce. However, the more formula he gets, the less breastmilk you will be able to produce. Your milk DID come in, but because you started supplementing, your supply has probably decreased quite a bit. The pump is a poor substitution for nursing directly, and over time your supply will decrease even more. The good news is that at only 2 weeks old, it should be very easy to reverse your low supply and get him back to the breast fully, but it will take some time and effort.

What you need to do is try to wean off the formula slowly, nursing as often as possible and allowing your breasts time to increase production to meet his needs.

Here is a link on how to safely decrease/eliminate formula supplementation:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/decrease-formula.html

Here is information on how to increase milk production:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html

[ima062002]

You might be overfeeding your baby, momma. Most babies weigh about their birthweight at 2 weeks and then gain between 5-8.5 oz a week after that.

The fact that he takes quite a lot per feeding and his restlessness at your breast could mean also that he is developing a preference for the bottle.

I would urge you to see a lactation consultant who could observe you while you try to feed your baby and to figure out what your situation is that this point. While some women cannot make enough milk (due to insufficient glandular tissue) most problems can be corrected with the guidance of a professional. The glandular thing btw is very rare and these mommas usually don't grow bigger during pregnancy, don't experience fullness after birth at all and their breasts often have a tubular look.

In any case you can find an LC here with your zipcode: http://www.ilca.org/falc.html

[Nipple_nectar]

Why do you think baby's frustration is related to inadequate supply? Don't confuse normal fussiness for hunger. You can rely on output to carefully monitor input~ you need to count wet diapers, as long as you see six in a 24 hour period, you are doing well.

[Blondie]

Why do you think baby's frustration is related to inadequate supply? Don't confuse normal fussiness for hunger. You can rely on output to carefully monitor input~ you need to count wet diapers, as long as you see six in a 24 hour period, you are doing well.


This

[RedheadbyChoice]

Four ounces in a feeding, for a babe that's just barely 2 weeks old, is too much.

Count the diapers, momma!

[myboyjoe]

Wet diapers, at least 8. Joe still latches on with no problems and drains me. I can only nurse him every 4 hours if I don't pump. Why he was eating so much was because it was taking him so long to eat. I had gotten NUK bottles as a gift and had been using them. he nurses faster then he was bottle feeding ! I switched bottles and in 20 minutes he's eating 2 1/2 oz. and going right back to sleep. that's normal nursing time for Joey. Sometimes he'll go 3 - 3 1/2 oz. but only if he's had a really long nap or if he sleeps through the night, which happens every few days.

He's a big boy, growing like a weed. I had to go buy preemie clothes when I got him home he was so small. yes, i do worry about how much he's eating, talked to my ped about it, a few RN's too. I still worry about it, but the people I have consulted don't seem too worried, my ped even has me watering down the formula. he never cries unless he's hungry. he has a routine. i have been blessed with a very good baby. All I can try now is to get him to nurse more often, to get my supply up. no one in my family BF, i'm lost here.

thanks guys, new pics of my Josiah soon. (last feeding 9:32am 2 oz.)

[RedheadbyChoice]

Momma, I'd suggest that your nurse babe more often. Every 4 hours is a long stretch for a newborn. You want to aim for at least 8-10 sessions, in 24 hours. Personally, I'd be offering every 2 hours during the day.

[KerryS]

I can only nurse him every 4 hours if I don't pump.

You should nurse him more frequently than that. Your breasts are never "empty" and if you nurse him, he will get milk. If you wait between feedings for your breasts to "fill up" that tells your body to slow down milk production. Draining the breasts often is what tells your body to make more. You need to nurse more often to make more milk.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Linky: how supply works (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction.html)

That link explains what Kerry is saying, how your breasts are never empty. If you don't tell your bod to make the milk (by nursing) then your body won't get the message to make it.

[ima062002]

YOu don't need to wait for your baby to cry to tell you that he is hungry. I didn't know this my first baby but there are early hunger signs and a crying baby means that mom missed these signs. See her for a list of them: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/basics/hunger-cues.html

I agree with pp to feed him more often. At 2 weeks, I'd wake him to feed him during the night at least once if he is sleeping through. Moms make most milk during the night but if baby sleeps long stretches, over time, mom will make less milk.

I cringed when I heard that your pedi actually said you should water down formula! Your baby needs nutrition with every feed, no empty water! Some babies do grow fast and furious, it seems like mommas make whipped cream. It's OK if they do that at the breast. But with the bottle the issue is that it drips, no matter what slow flow nipple you use and babies will instinctively suck if liquid is coming and thus it's easy to overfeed. With nursing they have to work for another letdown and the belly has time to signal to the brain that it is full.

[myboyjoe]

Already on it. Joe eats every 2 hours so it's easy to stay on top of. hunger signs are also hard to pick up on with Joe, he always has his nuk or is sucking on his hands. I have to swaddle him to feed him or he knocks the bottle or nipple out of his mouth and in goes the fingers. he always has to have something in his mouth it seems. but, we both love nursing. the closeness of it. he actually stays awake longer between feedings if I nurse too, thats one of my favorite parts. : )

[RedheadbyChoice]

Sugar, if you're at all worried about supply, nix the pacifier and let babe do all sucking at the breast.

[KerryS]

I don't understand what you mean by "I can only nurse him every 4 hours if I don't pump." Can you explain what you mean by that?

You are nursing him every two hours? That's a good start. I agree with Redhead that if you're having a hard time reading his hunger cues, you should get rid of the pacifier. Overuse of pacifier is associated with low milk production and early weaning.

Sucking on fingers is an early hunger cue, as is licking lips, moving head back and forth, rooting, etc.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Again, when you're breastfeeding, the hallmarks of babe getting enough are 1--babe is gaining weight and 2--and giving you the diapers.

If you work on cutting back the formula, I think you can get there, to just breastfeed exclusively.

Let all sucking be done at the breast (as in no pacifier right now), offer at least every 2 hours during the day, and since there seem to be concerns, I'd offer at least once at night, if babe is sleeping more than 4 hours at night.

Oh, and here's another linky: how much expressed milk will my baby need? (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html)

and: bottlefeeding the breastfed baby (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html)

If at all possible, I'd be keeping that baby at the breast, as much as possible. Newborns are known for nursing often, every hour for many! And there's not a thing wrong with that or with mom's milk supply.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Serial posting, sorry!

If Joe is nursing every 2 hours, why add the formula?

[KerryS]

Serial posting, sorry!

If Joe is nursing every 2 hours, why add the formula?

I agree with this. It sounds to me like you don't need the formula, or at least you DIDN'T need it when you first started offering it. It's possible or likely that your supply has diminished now as a result of giving the formula, which is why it's recommended that you wean off the formula slowly to allow your breasts to start making more.

I guess what it comes down to is: why do you feel like you have low supply, and why did you start supplementing with formula to begin with?

[RedheadbyChoice]

We're not bullying you, I promise.

Did you read the link Kerry gave you, about reducing formula supplementation? Your baby is young and it seems (from what you've written) that you've already got a good milk supply. Do you want to exclusively breastfeed? Or are you okay with the supplementation?

Because I really think that it's more than possible for you to do it, nurse exclusively.

[KerryS]

We're not bullying you, I promise.

I'm sorry if my posts are a bit abrupt. I have a hard time with warm fuzzy delivery (which is why I don't post much here).

[RedheadbyChoice]

No, they're fine, Kerry. I just wanted to reassure her, since we were both posting a lot of info/questions at the same time.

:)

[myboyjoe]

No it makes me think actually. Cut the crap and give it to me straight, I do not need to be coddled. I am 23, I'm a big girl. That and sometimes ya'll make me laugh too.

I started supplementing because he was really really hurting me. He was never off the breast, no lie. It was as if I set him down so I could pee and eat and he wanted to nurse again. He was actually breaking blood vessels as he nursed. I was so sore that I had to do something or I was going to go nuts. Yeah I know, such a cop out. Then he started eating more, even when he nursed he'd want more then he was getting. Now, it feels like my breast are on fire and they itch. my right is always bigger then my left and Joe will nurse for sometimes 15 minutes at the R and 7 to 10 at the L. I have to make dinner so I will explain more later.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Breasts are on fire and itchy nipples? Sounds like you could have thrush.

Here's some info.
thrush information (http://http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/bf/thrush.asp)

How's the latch now? If you've got thrush, holy snot, sugar, that does hurt; BTDT, with all 4 kiddos! I've found that GSE (info in the link) works great and fast as well.

[myboyjoe]

It's the right one and no my entire breast will itch.

Oh, he's got one hell of a latch. I can't break it, once he's on you have to let him do his thing. The phone can go on ringing, the house could burn down, you could wet yourself. He's always had a very strong latch.

[RedheadbyChoice]

But, is his latch correct? A baby can have a strong latch and not be latched on there correctly. Is his tongue under the nipple? Are the lips flanged out nicely? Is he turned towards you well, tummy to tummy? Are you making sure his mouth is open nice and wide before you latch him? So that he's taking the entire nipple, not just nibbling up it?

Have you seen an LC?

[jgassa]

At that age my son nursed every two hours-for an hour. I'm sure he only drank abot 1-2 ounces a feeding during those first weeks. He is almost 4 months now and when I have to give him expressed breastmilk in a bottle he only takes 2-3 ounces. He still feeds every 2 hours during the day, but only for 10-15 minutes. He goes for longer stretches at night.

[yoyossupply]

My 5 month old still nurses every 1 1/2 to 2 hrs although she's much more efficient now (only takes her 15 mins now). She still only goes a max of 5 hrs at night, but we cosleep so sometimes I don't really wake up to nurse her. When she does get a bottle of expressed milk she barely takes 2 oz and she is gaining very very well.

I don't have any great advice but I know that you can do it!!!

[myboyjoe]

yes, I had help from the nurses when I was still in the hospital. that and the nipples that I have for the bottles are shaped the same way that I am, or close to it. even when I bottle feed Joe shifts himself so that he is pressed firmly to my belly and his feet are crossed sitting on top of my hip bone. we co sleep that way sometimes too, or face to face. He has to be as close as he can get or he fusses, he's a mommy's boy already. : )

Last night he nursed on each breast for 9 minutes and still wanted the bottle. Only instead of eating 2 1/2 to 3 oz. he only had an oz. And his diapers are sopping wet, he sometimes will pee through them but thats the extra water in the formula. I also have a constipation issue with little man. The ped isn't too worried, I am.

I haven't seen an LC since I was in the hospital. Then it was only for like 3 minutes because I wasn't nursing. She dropped off a book and had me fill out a card and left. I;m going to call Joanne Booth after 8 am this morning. I talked to her before Joe was born and need to talk to anyone about my on going worry. I still think that he's gaining weight too quickly and eating too much. He has gotten heavier since I switched bottles too. His newborn clothes actually fit nicely and he's moving into pampers size 1. I see the ped for his 2 week check up today. I have a nice list of questions for the nice doctor.

Kerry, I had a Gastric Bypass 2 years ago. Would that effect how much I produce or is it just my worry talking again ?

[RedheadbyChoice]

Sugar, it doesn't sounds like you have a supply problem at all, really. If babe has nursed both sides, but is still wanting more, put him back on the 1st breast. Farmer Red (my DH) calls that 'the 3rd boob'. :)

Give that LC a call and see if you can be seen. But really, from what you've written I'm seeing a latch or thrush issue, but not a low supply issue.

[myboyjoe]

He won't always go back. he wouldn't last night. tried that for 10 minutes before he became to frustrated to even comfort. we'll keep trying. i really don't want him on formula. i have 6 weeks brfore i have to go back to work so we have time.

[KerryS]

How many calories are you taking in? Are you taking any kind of vitamin supplementation (I believe you should be taking a B-complex vitamin).

I agree with Redhead - it doesn't necessarily sound to me like you've got a supply issue.

[RedheadbyChoice]

He won't always go back. he wouldn't last night. tried that for 10 minutes before he became to frustrated to even comfort. we'll keep trying. i really don't want him on formula. i have 6 weeks brfore i have to go back to work so we have time.

Was this middle of the night? While cosleeping? Or earlier in the evening? Though I'm an 'offer the boob at first squeak' kind of girl, perhaps after both sides he wasn't actually hungry any longer? Perhaps he needed comforted by walking about the house or snuggling or rocking or something?

Perhaps I'm coming at this from an entirely different direction. There has never been formula in my house, for any reason. So I don't have that as a 'go to' thing when babe's upset and doesn't settle...because sometimes a baby just isn't happy and just doesn't settle and that has nothing to do with my milk. That's when using the sling, taking a walk about the house, or time with DH comes in handy. Babies aren't always peaceful. They can be fed, dry, and loved and still be crabby and fussy.

I'm just not seeing, from your posts, that there's an issue with a low supply. I think you had latch issues (and may still yet, I really really think you need to be seen by a LC, if you've got thrush that will only get miserable for you both, and if it's a latch, let's get it fixed!) and that babe has gotten used to the faster flow of a bottle, vs. the normal flow of breastfeeding, and that in turn sets up a nasty cycle of continuing to give bottles when they're really not needed.

I do hope you can get to see a lactation consultant. If you think that he's gaining wait too quickly, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that adding formula to his diet isn't helping that---nor is 4 ounces in a feeding for a 2 week old baby.

I do know a lot of breastfed babies who plump up quite quickly, though! Mine never do, but both ends of the spectrum can be equally healthy.

[myboyjoe]

c, B12, cal, biotin, Iron, Prenat. every day at breakfast. I try to take in as many calories as I can, I have never been able to keep track. My mom said to eat like I was still pregnant, so I have been. lots of carbs, lots of protein, lots of stuff that is actually really good for me. I've always eaten the good stuff first, even at my heaviest (272) I just can't drink milk or some dairy products. Lactose issues. I eat bagels like there going out of style, my body craves them. And peanut butter, cheese, pineapple, TOMATOES.

It was his 2:30 am feeding and this is the way that it always goes. I try not to keep him in my bed all night, he has his own and I am a firm beleiver in making sure he knows the difference. (I know 2 weeks old. But, he sleeps in his own bed EVERY NIGHT with no problems) It's around that 2:30 feeding that I just want to sleep and he ends up snuggled in with me.

I change his pants, we snuggle up in the glider, out comes boob, I rock, when he let's go I burp, switch sides and repeat. When he falls asleep I keep rocking for another 10 minutes or so and put him back to bed.

Last night when I put him back to bed he wouldn't settle. I rocked, I walked, I sang, put him into bed with me and he just wasn't having it. So out came boob and he didn't want that either. So I gave him an oz, and at 3:15 I think it was Joe finally fussed himself out. Then he slept for 3 1/2 hours, until almost 6:30 am. I won't give him any more then an ounce after he nurses, if he wants more after that out comes boob. It's been a frustrating 24 hours, but i know I can do this.

I think it's a latch issue honestly. he's use to the bottles. I have to get in some where, even if I have to go back to the hospital. it's only wens, i just might !

2 week check up: 7 pounds 8 ounces, 19 3/4 inches long. doc impressed. (only lost 8 oz after birth)

[myboyjoe]

nursing normally, 3 week growth spurt. wont touch a bottle : ) he's fussy and sleepy but he's not taking a bottle. that is the important part. no pain, no burning, no itching. Talked to joanne, see her Tuesday. i think joe just forgot how to latch and as frustrating as it was we had to relearn how, thanks guys !