S/O Vaccinations: To do or not to do

[cc1003]

I'm sure that this has been more than thoroughly discussed but ah well! Do you or do you not vaccinate? Why or why not? If so, do you do a delayed vax schedule?

If I'm not back to discuss tonight I promise I will be here tomorrow. I have to feed the sweet baby in the other room.

[Kristen]

DD has been vaxed on schedule. After doing some reading and researching of my own I have decided that DS is going to be on a delayed schedule.

[kohlby]

Delayed. I really like the Dr. Sears vaccination book. I don't follow the alternate schedule given in it completely, but the book has enough info that I was able to create a more delayed schedule that I feel comfortable with. I do feel better vaxing, but I don't feel like babies need all those shots. Some, like hep A, are on schedule for one year - but the rate of seizures is 1% for babies under two. It would make far more sense for that to be a vax after 2. For the MMR, I'll have each part given separetly at 5 or later - since then they'll only need one round. (DS did have his first round since I didn't know this at the time. We're waiting on DD). For DS's second round, I'll have him tested to see if he needs the second shot. I don't do flu shots. I am holding out for chicken pox. I do DTaP on schedule. I can't think of the other one they have lots of rounds of, but I do that one pretty much on schedule too - though not giving it at the same time as DTaP.

[Jacksmommy]

No vaccines here.

[vulturemom]

I don't vaccinate now. I did up until Tasha was one then quit.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I don't vaccinate. I think it's in my kids' best interest not to.

[whitnessforhim]

I don't vaccinate. I think it's in my kids' best interest not to.


This all the way!

[KerryS]

Essentially we don't vaccinate at all, but in reality it's just VERY delayed. There are some vaxes that my children will get at age 12 (MMR, Hep B, Varicella for my daughter). The reasons for those is that I DO feel that protection against those diseases when they're childbearing age is important, and that once they reach adolescence, the benefits of the vaccines outweigh the risks. My infant will receive the RSV vaccine in the fall because he was premature. Otherwise, we don't vaccinate, and certainly not on the schedule recommended.

My reasons for that are varied. My main, basic belief is that infants are born with incomplete, immature immune systems. Their immune systems are not fully formed until closer to age 5. My BELIEF is that administering a bunch of vaccines to incomplete immune systems "short circuits" them somehow, and my BELIEF is that the huge prevalence of auto immune disorders is caused, in part, by all the routine infant vaccinations.

[tata]

I vax on schedule. As others have said, it's because I believe it is in my children's best interest to do so.

Kerry, I'm interested in your point about auto-immune disorders and vaccinations. Can you tell me more?

[KerryS]

Kerry, I'm interested in your point about auto-immune disorders and vaccinations. Can you tell me more?

I'm not sure what more there is to say. I emphasized "belief" because I don't know if there is any scientific evidence behind it. It just seems to me that if you start mucking with the immune system while it's still developing, you run the risk of permanently affecting it.

[tata]

I see. Well, thanks for clarifying, anyway. I did notice your emphasis of the word "belief," BTW.

[KerryS]

I see. Well, thanks for clarifying, anyway. I did notice your emphasis of the word "belief," BTW.

I hope my response didn't sound curt; I didn't mean it to sound that way. Just that I didn't really have any more info to add to what I originally wrote.

[janie]

I'm not sure what more there is to say. I emphasized "belief" because I don't know if there is any scientific evidence behind it. It just seems to me that if you start mucking with the immune system while it's still developing, you run the risk of permanently affecting it.Oh, I'm sure there is scientific evidence, but you won't hear about it in the mainstream because vaccines are a big money maker, in so many ways.

Anyway, how about some good ole' common sense? Most of you here wouldn't dream of giving your babe formula, yet you would question the safety of a vaccine?

Have you heard about all the drugs that have been proven lately to NOT work? Anti-depressants? The cholesterol lowering drug? Even the flu vaccine was worthless and they even TOLD us that, but people kept on getting the shots.

We've been told it's the thing to do and we just do it. And I don't know why.

[KerryS]

Oh, I'm sure there is scientific evidence, but you won't hear about it in the mainstream because vaccines are a big money maker, in so many ways.

Anyway, how about some good ole' common sense? Most of you here wouldn't dream of giving your babe formula, yet you would question the safety of a vaccine?

Have you heard about all the drugs that have been proven lately to NOT work? Anti-depressants? The cholesterol lowering drug? Even the flu vaccine was worthless and they even TOLD us that, but people kept on getting the shots.

We've been told it's the thing to do and we just do it. And I don't know why.

I get the impression from your post that there is a big conspiracy behind vaccination recommendations. If so, I don't share your opinions in that regard. I just believe that vaccines are a risk vs. benefits thing, and that everyone needs to assess that for themselves and their children, based on their individual circumstances. I also believe that there is plenty of accurate, unbiased scientific research that shows that there IS benefit to many vaccines.

[janie]

No, I don't think there is any big conspiracy. Interesting that you would think that just because of the things I said.

You can't really prove the benefit to vaccinating your child. You can never prove that they didn't get something because of a vaccine OR if they had gotten it, it would have affected them worse than the vaccine might.

So, in a sense, I agree with you on the risk vs. benefits thing, but the benefits are not always portrayed accurately, while the risks are dramatically overplayed and used to frighten people.

[Jessie81]

With all the questions about vaxing why do peds and docs push them SOOO hard?! Most i have talked to are adimate (sp?) about them...

[vulturemom]

I wish I knew some won't even admit that any reactions exist even when they are staring in the face.

[SingingMom]

I read some interesting speculations on autoimmune diseases and challenging the immune system. (It was in our local paper.) There was a speculation that the lack of intestinal parasites is relatively new in the population, and that exposure to a variety of parasites may have been the evolutionary norm. A study in Mexico found improvement in some autoimmune disease with exposure to proteins from some parasite (they use blenderized pig parasites, so as to not risk infection with a human parasite. Yuck.)

I'll have to look around and find the article and the research referenced. I thought it was really interesting.

[KerryS]

You can't really prove the benefit to vaccinating your child. You can never prove that they didn't get something because of a vaccine OR if they had gotten it, it would have affected them worse than the vaccine might.

It appears that you don't have an adequate understanding of statistics or the scientific method.

Based on your argument above, one could say that you can't prove that breastfeeding prevents diseases.

You CAN prove scientifically the benefits of breastfeeding. You can also prove scientifically the benefits of vaccines.

Believe me, I'm not a vaccine apologist. But I believe that people should at least have a clear understanding of the issues, and have their facts correct.

[KerryS]

With all the questions about vaxing why do peds and docs push them SOOO hard?! Most i have talked to are adimate (sp?) about them...

Because they believe, based on the research, that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh any possible risks.

[Wildflower]

Kerry, did you decide if you were going to give Leo the DTaP?

Our ped seemed to be really cool about the vaccine issue - we'll see if he continues to be at any WBCs we go to. At DD's 2-week appt I told him I was going to delay or not even do many vaccines and how did he feel about that, and we talked and he then said in cases like this, he will respect my decision and we would agree to disagree. I was happy, too, that he at least had a few pet vaccines and felt others weren't even that important - I guess that's better than a ped who thinks they are ALL life/death.

I vax'd DS on schedule against my instincts. I didn't want to do it, but I also didn't want to do the research and I just told myself that everyone else does it, and most of their kids come out OK, so I kind of stuck my head in the sand and hoped for the best. This time I have done some reading, but I still feel ill-prepared to defend/debate my choices. I don't plan to give her any vaccines before a year old for sure. Beyond that, I am not sure yet.

[KerryS]

Kerry, did you decide if you were going to give Leo the DTaP?

We're leaning towards no. My main reason for doing it would be due to lung damage. However, the ped has said that while his lungs may have been weak/damaged at birth, they're not NOW, and he's at no greater risk for lung issues than any other baby. With that in mind, DH has said that his prematurity should not be a factor we consider with that particular vaccine (although we both see the value in the RSV vaccine).

[Tweet]

We've always vaxed on schedule mainly because there have never been any reactions that we're aware of in our families and definitely none in our immediate family. I didn't know enough about delaying or I might have with DD1 because she was so premature.

[janie]

It appears that you don't have an adequate understanding of statistics or the scientific method.

Based on your argument above, one could say that you can't prove that breastfeeding prevents diseases.

You CAN prove scientifically the benefits of breastfeeding. You can also prove scientifically the benefits of vaccines.

Believe me, I'm not a vaccine apologist. But I believe that people should at least have a clear understanding of the issues, and have their facts correct.I'd like you to go ahead and try to scientifically PROVE the benefits of vaccines.

I'll wait.

[KerryS]

I'd like you to go ahead and try to scientifically PROVE the benefits of vaccines.

I'll wait.

There are hundreds and hundreds of studies that show benefits to vaccines. Specifically, a reduction in the likelihood of contracting the specific disease or illness against which the vaccine is meant to protect, as well as providing herd immunity. Those are benefits to vaccines, are they not?

I didn't think ANY vaccine opponent actually disagrees that many/most vaccines actually do confer some protection against those diseases (well, except maybe you?). I certainly don't. That's generally not the reason why people make the decision to not vaccinate.

Let me ask you, Janie - why are YOU opposed to vaccines?

[Darcy_]

We Vaccinated Parker on schedual. Serra we are delaying many of her shots until she is older. Serra seems to have a bad reaction everytime she gets a shot.

[SingingMom]

I'd like you to go ahead and try to scientifically PROVE the benefits of vaccines.

I'll wait.

You can't scientifically PROVE anything. Science is about DISPROVING things. You can knock a hypothesis down with a counterexample or a negative result set, but for a positive result, all you can do is gather evidence that supports a theory. That's the scientific method.

[topamicha]

Have you heard about all the drugs that have been proven lately to NOT work? Anti-depressants? The cholesterol lowering drug? Even the flu vaccine was worthless and they even TOLD us that, but people kept on getting the shots.

Huh. It was proven that flu vaccines are worthless and anti-depressants don't work? When did this happen?

[SingingMom]

Ummm, yeah. See, that's a little mixed up. You're confusing "proven" with "advocated for by drug companies". Drug companies have a vested interest in promoting the latest generation of various drugs. Yes, recent research has shown that the older (and no longer patented) statins are more effective at lowering cholesterol without side effects than several newer, and patented, drugs. Right.

And this year's flu vaccine didn't provide much protection against the dominant strains of flu that showed up. That's always a guessing game, which usually works out pretty well. Not so much this year. But CDC urged people to get the shots anyway, because they felt that it might provoke some immunity and at least make recovery from a flu infection easier.

The antidepressant thing is yet another kettle of fish. Antidepressants have been prescribed for teens and even children, and they haven't been well-studied in that population. I mean, I'm not signing my kid up for experimental drug trials! So those are turning out to have some problems in that population. But it's still too early to tell exactly what the situation is there. I mean, the teens were getting antidepressants prescribed because they were depressed already. So how do you, objectively, measure how depressed they were before and after medication?

[Tweet]

As an aside, does the flu vaccine really help in providing some protection against pneumonia? I have one child that seems prone to bronchitis that quickly turns into walking pneumonia. Oddly, she's never had asthma. Anyway, I always wonder if I should go ahead and get her a flu vaccine. I did when she was in daycare.

[KerryS]

As an aside, does the flu vaccine really help in providing some protection against pneumonia? I have one child that seems prone to bronchitis that quickly turns into walking pneumonia. Oddly, she's never had asthma. Anyway, I always wonder if I should go ahead and get her a flu vaccine. I did when she was in daycare.

Pneumonia isn't something you "catch" - it's a complication of another respiratory illness, like bronchitis or the flu. So if you can prevent the initial respiratory illness, there is nothing for the pneumonia to develop from.

[SarahFae]

Most of his vax's are on schedule, we're delaying MMR to at least two years and he will not be getting Varicella.

[Meredith]

I don't vaccinate. I think it's in my kids' best interest not to.

Same here, although we may start with some very selective vaccinating when DS is older. It will be *very* selective, though.

[mfirst]

I vaccinate because I want to protect my children against various diseases. I respect everyone's right to choose what is best for their children. DH and I have decided our children will attend public schools, and next year they will probably have to start daycare, so it is their best interest to be protected. That said, I tried unsuccesfully to have the ped follow the alternative schedule. Instead, we compromised. Half the shots at the well-visit, the other half two weeks later. If we move up north, most of the ped's routinely follow the alternative schedule, so that will be another bonus.

[mfirst]

As an aside, does the flu vaccine really help in providing some protection against pneumonia? I have one child that seems prone to bronchitis that quickly turns into walking pneumonia. Oddly, she's never had asthma. Anyway, I always wonder if I should go ahead and get her a flu vaccine. I did when she was in daycare.

There are two separate vaccines - one for the flu, and a pneumococal vaccine that helps protect against pneumonia.

[Tweet]

I just remember reading recently something about a man developing pneumonia as a complication from the flu and a doctor writing, "Likely, if he'd received the flu vaccine this year, he would not have died from it". I've heard a couple other people repeat this as well.

[KerryS]

I just remember reading recently something about a man developing pneumonia as a complication from the flu and a doctor writing, "Likely, if he'd received the flu vaccine this year, he would not have died from it". I've heard a couple other people repeat this as well.

I think he just means that if he had gotten the flu vaccine, he never would have gotten the flu, and it wouldn't have developed into pneumonia.

Sort of like how chicken pox isn't deadly, but people can sometimes get a deadly staph infection in one of the lesions. It's the staph infection that kills them, not specifically the chicken pox. But if they hadn't gotten chicken pox, they never would have gotten the staph infection.

[kohlby]

As an aside, does the flu vaccine really help in providing some protection against pneumonia? I have one child that seems prone to bronchitis that quickly turns into walking pneumonia. Oddly, she's never had asthma. Anyway, I always wonder if I should go ahead and get her a flu vaccine. I did when she was in daycare.
I have asthma and have been getting the flu shot yearly for at least 10 years now. However, I missed a year. That year, I ended up with bronchitis for two solid months. It was awful. The vax doesn't prevent you from getting something like bronchitis. But someone like me, though my asthma is mild, ends up with bronchitis as a complication of the flu more easily than the average person. Due to that, I get a flu shot every single year. I don't get my kids a flu shot since they;re not in any high risk group except for the under 5 one - and that one is going to have more risks with getting the shot too!

[Tiffearni]

We've always vaxed on schedule EXCEPT DTaP, but that was an accident because we were moving out of state and so on. Anyway, that was the ONLY vax that she had a reaction to. What a coincidence. Anyway, DS has been on schedule.

My reason? Well, I'm basically with tweet on this one.

[Aeonkat]

I wish I knew then what I know now in regards to vaccines. I wish I would have delayed.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Ever since I started researching vaxes and autoimmune diseases, I realized that there must be a connection. Then I started reading sites dealing with this. Of course, most people who recognize the connection believe in alternative medicine. Well, more recently even conventional medicine has begun to recognize the potential problem.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15196997

[/quote]We suggest that a potential link between vaccines and autoimmune diseases cannot be definitely ruled out and should be carefully explored during the development of new candidate vaccines.[/quote]

If you google, you'll see quite a bit about Vaccination-Induced Autoimmune Hepatitis, too.