How are the LCs doing in the "ask the LC" forum?

[KerryS]

Anyone been reading the responses? Have there been any more issues or concerns WRT quality of assistance they're offering?

[Amy_G_]

I was going to ask this, but I was afraid I'd just get yelled at for being negative.

I've seen a bit of advice that made me go hmmmmmm....
and hope they followed up in the general or newborn forum.

I'm amazed at the number of low supply, not latching problems, but I've always been amazed at how often those happen anyway.

I've also seen quite a bit of pm me or visit me at my website for more info, which kind of leaves one hanging.

[HammBugga]

I haven't been paying attention at all but since you brought it up I went over and peeked. Um. That Caryn chick doesn't seem like any LC I have ever known. Recommending nipple shields for no apparent reason, supplementing for no reason, giving weird answers to questions. Very strange indeed.

[Amy_G_]

yeah, now a baby with yellow poops, but maybe a bit of stinky toots she tells mom to get rid of dairy in her diet. why?

[Amy_G_]

dr prescribes zantac for GERD, and LC says to stop it and do a dairy elimination instead for 48 hours? what good will 48 hours really do?

[_Gypsy_]

I have to admit, I never thought it was a great idea - having IBCLC's from outside of the bf.com community here.

To be honest, I feel like the information given out on the support boards is top notch, and I feel the information given out by many of the IBCLC's is too vague, not good, not helpful or even harmful. I haven't read over there recently, but I wasn't impressed in the past. Any good advice they give is stuff that can easily be found by Googling. Our active members on the support boards do more for women in this community than I have seen from the IBCLC's - and I am not tooting my own horn - I hardly post on the support boards anymore.

If we had OUR members posting, well, that would be different. Our members are used to high quality information, follow-up, and going more in depth. I know we have a handful of IBCLC's here, and I'd love to see them in the LC chat.

[Bellaelle]

I have to agree with Gypsy. I also do not think it was great idea to have outside people dispensing info. The active members do have great advice and they are very involved in the community, which to me is important.

However,what we think and what will happen are two different things.

[marriedbears]

I was going to ask this, but I was afraid I'd just get yelled at for being negative.

I've seen a bit of advice that made me go hmmmmmm....
and hope they followed up in the general or newborn forum.

I'm amazed at the number of low supply, not latching problems, but I've always been amazed at how often those happen anyway.

I've also seen quite a bit of pm me or visit me at my website for more info, which kind of leaves one hanging.

Amy this is the very cornerstone of what this site is about. If poor advise is being given please alert someone. I now regret not visiting the LC forums.

Don't we have several here that are certified LC? I know Nicurn is one. I wonder why current posters with a long standing history were not given an opportunity to apply for the positions.

[marriedbears]

My mouth is on the floor with some of the advise.

[Amy_G_]

Amy this is the very cornerstone of what this site is about. If poor advise is being given please alert someone. I now regret not visiting the LC forums.

Don't we have several here that are certified LC? I know Nicurn is one. I wonder why current posters with a long standing history were not given an opportunity to apply for the positions.

When the LC forum first started, I posted that the advice was not so good, and was jumped on for being negative. I've tracked a few people from where they've posted on the LC forum with so so advice, and then went to the general board and got better advice. I haven't taken the time to track everyone and pm for further advice etc. I wished that at least one of the stickies in the LC forum would advise the women to get follow up advice from the general or newborn board.

I don't think it would be kosher for us to copy a post from the lc board and add to it, and fix it on the general board or debate board, but I have wanted to on occassion. some of the advice is very good, and some is more thorough than others. some of it is very short and abreviated and some is just not quite right.

[marriedbears]

I am hoping I did not jump on you. I seem to recall not liking the advise back then either, but I let the ball go on that one I guess.

I think one of the great things about us answering the questions is we are willing to ask more question and with more information it only makes our advise that much more relevant. I think the time constraint affects the quality of advise given unfortunately.

I agree that c&p would not be the best idea.

[Psyche]

The LC is not a doctor and therefore should not negate a doctor's advice. Who does she think she is?

And dairy elimination takes up to 2 weeks. However, there has been some evidence that dairy elimination can help with reflux.

[haleysmom]

I have to agree with Gypsy. I also do not think it was great idea to have outside people dispensing info. The active members do have great advice and they are very involved in the community, which to me is important.

However,what we think and what will happen are two different things.


ITA

[EvilAmy]

I was going to ask this, but I was afraid I'd just get yelled at for being negative.

I've seen a bit of advice that made me go hmmmmmm....
and hope they followed up in the general or newborn forum.

I'm amazed at the number of low supply, not latching problems, but I've always been amazed at how often those happen anyway.

I've also seen quite a bit of pm me or visit me at my website for more info, which kind of leaves one hanging.


Yell, yell, bitch, moan, mumble, grumble.

(feel better? ;) )

I have yet to read over there because if I ever had anything to ask it will be asked here. I've yet to figure out that any other board but the debate one exsists.

[tata]

This thread prompted me to have a look over there.

My honest opinion is that the answers aren't necessarily bad, but they are so abbreviated that they really seem disconnected from the question. A lot of the OPs there are very short and abbreviated, too. The same questions posed on the General Forum would be responded to by the regulars with a lot of questions about baby's age, size, diaper output, number of nursing sessions, weight, weight at birth and so on. Then, the answers would be much more personable and encouraging. Of course, this is JMnsHO, so take that FWIW.

[TuetonicWillow]

I'll pull the "As an IBCLC" card here...


As an LC, let me say I think it's pretty piss poor all around.

[HammBugga]

Well I am on the Gypsy bandwagon. Those women would have gotten much more complete and accurate answers had they been posted on the BB or Debates. I also agree with TW. Piss poor indeed. Some of it had my mouth hanging agape. One more thing..I am not usually particular about spelling or grammar but when I see advise instead of advice, it really makes me insane. Probably a bit irrational but I read it as ADD-VIZE and it makes me batshit crazy.

[Sunnie]

Advise is correct in British and Australian dictionaries

[KerryS]

If we had OUR members posting, well, that would be different. Our members are used to high quality information, follow-up, and going more in depth. I know we have a handful of IBCLC's here, and I'd love to see them in the LC chat.

I've been in contact with Hal/Sassy about being put on the "ask the LC" roster, but I've got reservations about doing it.

[KerryS]

Don't we have several here that are certified LC? I know Nicurn is one. I wonder why current posters with a long standing history were not given an opportunity to apply for the positions.

We were.

[TuetonicWillow]

I told Sassy I wouldn't do it and she agreed it should be non-members.

[tata]

I'm curious about your reservations, Kerry and Willow. Mind sharing? If not publicly, my PM box is open :)

[HammBugga]

ahhhh. We we all know those dictionaries are wrong. :P

[TuetonicWillow]

My reservations are all about my previous run with bf.com.


And scheduling. But mostly the former.

[HammBugga]

I'm curious about your reservations, Kerry and Willow. Mind sharing? If not publicly, my PM box is open :)
If it were ME, I would be leery of giving out professional advice when it is hard to get all of the information. I would prefer to give out my advice after I have met with the client and I have all the facts.

[TuetonicWillow]

I wouldn't want to transpose a letter in my response and piss off other boards. lol


Sorry.... I just can't help myself.

[KerryS]

I'm curious about your reservations, Kerry and Willow. Mind sharing? If not publicly, my PM box is open :)

I question the legality/ethics of "treating" someone over the internet, and wonder what the liability would be. When I post at the GBF board, I'm posting as a member, not as a healthcare professional.

I also agree with you and others that time constraints force very abbreviated responses and not a lot of in-depth digging. I'm always very impressed with how thorough the women at the GBF forum are at asking pointed, detailed questions in order to get to the root of the problem. I think the back and forth nature of those boards are much better, and I think the women coming for help generally feel more helped and hand-held (especially by Redhead - your "sugars" are so endearing! :)).

[KerryS]

If it were ME, I would be leery of giving out professional advice when it is hard to get all of the information. I would prefer to give out my advice after I have met with the client and I have all the facts.

Exactly. That's also why I feel it's unethical to do lactation consulting over the telephone, as well.

[TuetonicWillow]

Honestly, there is no general advice to be given that you can't get here from experienced mothers. Specific advice should be gotten in person. End of story.

[KerryS]

Honestly, there is no general advice to be given that you can't get here from experienced mothers. Specific advice should be gotten in person. End of story.

Absolutely. We have a very high level of quality advice given on the GBF forum (and like Gypsy, I'm not tooting my own horn - I've JUST started going back there again in the past week). If it's more complicated than what the ladies can do on the GBF forum, then it's something that should be seen in person.

basically I'm just repeating what you said, Tricia. But you really hit the nail on the head and it bears repeating.

[tata]

I figured those might be your reservations. Thanks for your answer.

Kerry, Red is very endearing, isn't she.?She is also very encouraging and non-judgmental, which I think it precisely what makes her such a huge incentive for the General Boards.

[KerryS]

Kerry, Red is very endearing, isn't she.?She is also very encouraging and non-judgmental, which I think it precisely what makes her such a huge incentive for the General Boards.

Yes, absolutely. I remember a recent thread where Red and I were kind of tag-teaming the mom. I tend to be very brusque and to the point when I answer questions. I'm not very warm fuzzy. And Red was providing the warm fuzzy, and apologizing to the mom for my brusqueness. :p

[KerryS]

Bleh. I just read some of the threads. There were so many times I wanted to post "Wait! I have more to add!"

For a mom of a preemie who is asking if it's okay to supplement with formula because her supply isn't very good and she's not pumping enough for her baby, why would the LC not give her suggestions at increasing her milk production, instead of saying "yes, it's fine, and you need a break too!" Ugh.

Suggesting a nipple shield for OALD?? WTF??

[VegasLactivist]

Bleh. I just read some of the threads. There were so many times I wanted to post "Wait! I have more to add!"

For a mom of a preemie who is asking if it's okay to supplement with formula because her supply isn't very good and she's not pumping enough for her baby, why would the LC not give her suggestions at increasing her milk production, instead of saying "yes, it's fine, and you need a break too!" Ugh.

Suggesting a nipple shield for OALD?? WTF??

Saw both of those. Had the same EXACT reaction. Nipple shield for OALD made me just gasp. What a NON fix that would be.

[tata]

Bleh. I just read some of the threads. There were so many times I wanted to post "Wait! I have more to add!"

For a mom of a preemie who is asking if it's okay to supplement with formula because her supply isn't very good and she's not pumping enough for her baby, why would the LC not give her suggestions at increasing her milk production, instead of saying "yes, it's fine, and you need a break too!" Ugh.

I saw that one and thought the answer wasn't wrong, but insufficient. A new mom struggling to build supply needs to hear encouragement and real tried-and-true methods to build her supply.

[KerryS]

I saw that one and thought the answer wasn't wrong, but insufficient. A new mom struggling to build supply needs to hear encouragement and real tried-and-true methods to build her supply.

Yes, I agree that it wasn't WRONG, per se. But sometimes what the woman is asking isn't actually what the problem is, and you need to do a little digging to find out what the TRUE issue is. Which goes back to it being a not very good medium for helping women with in-depth problems and issues, due to time constraints.

[TayNRobbiesMom]

i just wanted to state that I too love Red's gentle nature. I think she was the first woman that replied to my first thread on the boards (about thrush so bad I wanted to quit) and she was awsome!

as for the Lcs...I've asked several ??s and got the response i was expecting...Not to say it was one i couldn't have gotten from one of you wonderful, more experienced mommas...IDK ...I think for a regular poster on the boards the LC's are kinda unneeded. May give some peace of mind but thats about it, a good google search/posting here will do.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Me? Endearing? Damn. *\o/* must make Farmer Red read this!

:blush: Thanks. I figure if my blathering can help even just a mom or two, I'm happy to blather.

As for the LC advice in that forum, yes, I'm agreeing that not all of it is appropriate. I've been approached by more than one poster, asking me about it and wondering why bfdc is allowing it to be given.

[HammBugga]

Bleh. I just read some of the threads. There were so many times I wanted to post "Wait! I have more to add!"

For a mom of a preemie who is asking if it's okay to supplement with formula because her supply isn't very good and she's not pumping enough for her baby, why would the LC not give her suggestions at increasing her milk production, instead of saying "yes, it's fine, and you need a break too!" Ugh.

Suggesting a nipple shield for OALD?? WTF??
Those were the ones I read as well and was like W.T.F?!

[_Gypsy_]

As for the LC advice in that forum, yes, I'm agreeing that not all of it is appropriate. I've been approached by more than one poster, asking me about it and wondering why bfdc is allowing it to be given.

I've also been PM'ed by quite a few members, asking if I agreed with the information that was given in the LC forum, and why it was put there - I could see having the LC forum if women weren't getting the help they needed here - but they are, and always have.

Yes, Ginger - you are a HUGE asset to the support boards (and the entire community here!).

[Amy_G_]

I think for some women the pull of the ask an LC forum is that they think they can get a quick answer for a problem and avoid the cost of a visit with an LC. I think it would be more beneficial for breastfeeding moms to post on the general board and have a "real" LC weigh in during certain hours to agree with the general posters, or fill in something we forgot, or what have you. Or if it worked in reverse, where the problem could be started at the LC forum, and in a friendly manner, expanded upon by the regular members in the general board. Kind of a let's ask our expert, and now here's the same question answered by other moms just like you.

but the bad/iffy or just insufficient advice sucks.

[Amy_G_]

I also take issue with the LC's giving a short answer, and referring the OP to check out their website (which often has forums of their own, or I've seen some where the website is incomplete) and suggesting you buy the wonderful book they sell on their website. It seems fishy, unethical if you will.

[Bellaelle]

Amy,I also think it is fishy and unethical for them to ask the op to check out their site.
I think the advice on the general forum and even the debate forum was enough.

[Babyhellfire]

I think for some women the pull of the ask an LC forum is that they think they can get a quick answer for a problem and avoid the cost of a visit with an LC. I think it would be more beneficial for breastfeeding moms to post on the general board and have a "real" LC weigh in during certain hours to agree with the general posters, or fill in something we forgot, or what have you. Or if it worked in reverse, where the problem could be started at the LC forum, and in a friendly manner, expanded upon by the regular members in the general board. Kind of a let's ask our expert, and now here's the same question answered by other moms just like you.


I have read over much of it,and been ok with the LCs thought they did a pretty good job explaining and clearing things up for people.

I agree compleatly about the way it is set up though .
I really hate that it is a closed locked subject,and would love for people to be able to get input from other Moms who have BTDT -on the matter-
thats what i have always loved about being here.

[Babyblue]

it seems to me that a lc needs the hands on person to person contact, cant any other questions really be answered by another experenced mother, I feel its almost a waste of the lcs time when there are so many moms on here that can answer the same question.

[Amy_G_]

So what do the rest of us do?

do we read the LC forum and then pm the particular person who got less than what they needed to know and fill in the blanks?
do we post to them in the general or newborn forum and hope they see it?
do we let Sassy know which LC's are doing a good job and which ones seem lacking?
do we encourage the LC's to visit the general forum in their "spare time" and fill in more blanks?
do we ignore it and let the info stand as is for all to see, and hope not many see it?

[Nipple_nectar]

I have to admit, I never thought it was a great idea - having IBCLC's from outside of the bf.com community here.

To be honest, I feel like the information given out on the support boards is top notch, and I feel the information given out by many of the IBCLC's is too vague, not good, not helpful or even harmful. I haven't read over there recently, but I wasn't impressed in the past. Any good advice they give is stuff that can easily be found by Googling. Our active members on the support boards do more for women in this community than I have seen from the IBCLC's - and I am not tooting my own horn - I hardly post on the support boards anymore.

If we had OUR members posting, well, that would be different. Our members are used to high quality information, follow-up, and going more in depth. I know we have a handful of IBCLC's here, and I'd love to see them in the LC chat.

ICAM!


Amy this is the very cornerstone of what this site is about. If poor advise is being given please alert someone. I now regret not visiting the LC forums.

Don't we have several here that are certified LC? I know Nicurn is one. I wonder why current posters with a long standing history were not given an opportunity to apply for the positions.

Alert who? The threads are locked. These unsuspecting desperate nOObs just hope they are finally getting accurate info. I am exhausted from the LC forum, I can't go in there any more. I end up PMing almost everyone there. Then I sit on my hands thinking, what if the nOOb is being overwhelmed by PMs with conflicting advice? Now, I do nothing :::sigh:::


So what do the rest of us do?

do we read the LC forum and then pm the particular person who got less than what they needed to know and fill in the blanks?
do we post to them in the general or newborn forum and hope they see it?
do we let Sassy know which LC's are doing a good job and which ones seem lacking?
do we encourage the LC's to visit the general forum in their "spare time" and fill in more blanks?
do we ignore it and let the info stand as is for all to see, and hope not many see it?

Listen, some of these LCs are just as misinformed as the many professionals that steered these new momma's into a ditch to begin with, so to speak.

I think it's not working and should be gone. Some of these desperate ladies are depending on some supportive answers and some one on one attention~ not some drive by curt answer that leaves them feeling worse. Then they just leave the site thinking, I could have said that myself~ see a professional.

It is taking potential new members away from the site because they are not striking up conversation and immediately developing a bond with someone who is a regular, accessible and approachable. The whole dynamic of that forum wreaks of too many boundaries.

Half of those ladies never even end up coming to the general boards.

Then there is the feeling from people like me thinking: why should I even bother, they have an LC to talk to, if needed. Why come to me when they can go to a professional?

[KerryS]

Listen, some of these LCs are just as misinformed as the many professionals that steered these new momma's into a ditch to begin with, so to speak.

I think it's not working and should be gone. Some of these desperate ladies are depending on some supportive answers and some one on one attention~ not some drive by curt answer that leaves them feeling worse. Then they just leave the site thinking, I could have said that myself~ see a professional.

It is taking potential new members away from the site because they are not striking up conversation and immediately developing a bond with someone who is a regular, accessible and approachable. The whole dynamic of that forum wreaks of too many boundaries.

Half of those ladies never even end up coming to the general boards.

Then there is the feeling from people like me thinking: why should I even bother, they have an LC to talk to, if needed. Why come to me when they can go to a professional?

Here's a thought.

Back many years ago, before parentsplace.com was swallowed up by iVillage, I used to be one of the moderators of the breastfeeding support forum, along with Kelly Bonyata (of Kellymom.com) and Paula Yount (also at Kellymom, and mother-2-mother.com). We also had an IBCLC, Kathy Kuhn. She was there as kind of a "professional advisor" who also answered more technical questions, and if something was out of our scope or realm of knowledge, we'd flag it and say "Hey Kathy, can you check this out and weigh in?" Couldn't we do something like that on the GBF board? Because I think that 98% of the issues are being more than adequately answered by the regulars there, with rare instances where a more technical response or knowledge base is necessary.

[gobucks1013]

I accidentally responded to an "Ask an LC" question one day b/c I frequently just use the "New Posts" button to refresh all the posts. I didn't pay attention to the fact the thread was in the LC forum and I wrote a reply. I was immediately "reprimanded" by the LC fielding questions that day.

I, too like the idea of letting others chime in once in awhile to offer additional insight. Perhaps the LCs could encourage the OPs to post their questions on the general boards, too? There is such a wealth of information amongst so many of the ladies here. It's just a shame many of the OPs in the LC forums don't recieve the benefit of that. :(

[xobehs]

If it were ME, I would be leery of giving out professional advice when it is hard to get all of the information. I would prefer to give out my advice after I have met with the client and I have all the facts.
WORD.

[Amy_G_]

Here's a thought.

Back many years ago, before parentsplace.com was swallowed up by iVillage, I used to be one of the moderators of the breastfeeding support forum, along with Kelly Bonyata (of Kellymom.com) and Paula Yount (also at Kellymom, and mother-2-mother.com). We also had an IBCLC, Kathy Kuhn. She was there as kind of a "professional advisor" who also answered more technical questions, and if something was out of our scope or realm of knowledge, we'd flag it and say "Hey Kathy, can you check this out and weigh in?" Couldn't we do something like that on the GBF board? Because I think that 98% of the issues are being more than adequately answered by the regulars there, with rare instances where a more technical response or knowledge base is necessary.

We don't get to do shit Kerry. Our opinion really doesn't matter in regards to this.
Unless one of these LC's gives out some absolutely malpractice level advice victor isn't going to get rid of them. And even then, the disclaimer takes all the responsibility off bf.com for poor advice being given, doesn't it?

they are probably bringing in a few extra clicks on bf.com and they are a perk that seemed like a good idea.

It could still be a good idea. Like if after the 1 hour with the LC, the posts would be automatically moved to the general board and could be answered by everyone else. if that was the protocol, it would be great.

of course, how many brand new moms with issues are going to pop on to post their question, read the LC's answer, and then stick around until the post is moved and answered some more? It's a very unfriendly set up, like the LC's are gods that can't be questioned, and honestly some of them suck.

[Amy_G_]

My dh suggests that we just dive bomb the LC forum the next few times it's open and answer each question to clarify everything the LC's said. After a while bf.com will get the message and at least consider getting rid of the worst of the LC's.

I'm not sure I'm up to such terrorist tactics. ;)

[KerryS]

Heh.

Do the threads stay open for the entire hour that the LC is answering questions? Or does a thread get locked as soon as the LC answers?

[Texas]

Hi

[Texas]

why in the hell don't you start your own website you damn bunch of bitches.

[Texas]

bitch bitch bitch

[Texas]

do you have a life

[Texas]

NO

[EvilAmy]

They always do things bigger in Texas, including bitch?

[Amy_G_]

Heh.

Do the threads stay open for the entire hour that the LC is answering questions? Or does a thread get locked as soon as the LC answers?

They used to get locked right away, but now they stay open for a little while in case the OP wants to reply.

[EvilAmy]

I have to agree with y'all that info is better obtained through GB and even here (since this is the only board I visit)

[Bohemian]

Why are the threads locked at all?

[Amy_G_]

Why are the threads locked at all?
so we can't reply?
the LC locks it when she's done with it and knows which threads she's already replied to which helps to facilitate the short time they are here?
to keep people from bumping up old posts from one LC to get another LC to reply. I think that would be a cool feature, to see more than one LC reply and get the LC's fighting it out. heheh

[Nipple_nectar]

I said it before and I'll say it again: the collaborative dynamic at the GB cannot be equivalent to some forum where most of the participants are not even ALLOWED to respond in another thread.

That is a bunch of crap.

[BeachMama]

TW, I didn't know you were an LC!

What a...I can't think of a good word here...basicaly it's cool that you have two jobs that are so different!

[TuetonicWillow]

I don't have a job as an LC. I have no interest in keeping up, CERPS or recertification. I found no joy in it.

[BeachMama]

I don't have a job as an LC. I have no interest in keeping up, CERPS or recertification. I found no joy in it.
Well, nevermind then. ;)

[TuetonicWillow]

I'm just really not cool enough to have two real jobs.

[JudyJudyJudy]

TW, did you let your certification expire?

[Amy_G_]

Anyone else care to weigh in on the LC forum?
Give your opinions or suggestions so when Hal weighs in she get more than just a couple of people's thoughts?

[KerryS]

TW, did you let your certification expire?

Oh, did she test? I remember the one year she was going to test, there was a scheduling conflict and she wasn't able to.

[Amy_G_]

I wonder what the general board regulars think of the ask an LC forum? the ones that don't regular visit the debate board that is.

[pumpkinhead7]

I said it before and I'll say it again: the collaborative dynamic at the GB cannot be equivalent to some forum where most of the participants are not even ALLOWED to respond in another thread.

That is a bunch of crap.



I agree. The reason this forum was so initially helpful to me is that I got the perspective of many "plain ol' moms". I had 3 IBCLC's available to me in real life, but posting a question in the GB gave me the experience of the mothers who'd actually been there and the different approaches/solutions they used to solve their problems. Also, I was educated when common perceptions /opinions were challenged with more current information.

A thread where only one "Expert" answers is simply NOT any where near as helpful IMHO. I have had serious misgivings about this forum from the get go, but chose to leave rather than voicing them.

[RedheadbyChoice]

I wonder if there's a way that the LCs could be available to weigh in on threads, rather than the current set up? That way others are able to give input as well?

IDK.

[The_Market]

I've never been to the LC board before and I'm sorry I went just now. It's horrible. The advice is incomplete at best, harmful at worst. The LC repeatedly gives a 2 line answer with no further resources offered. It's like the twilight zone of breastfeeding support in there. I feel the urge to PM everyone who asks questions and offer better or more information. If that's what I had gotten when I first came here with breastfeeding issues, I sure as hell would not still be around and I definitely would not have chosen the path to IBCLC.

Are these people being paid? Who is liable for the information they give out?

[KerryS]

Are these people being paid? Who is liable for the information they give out?

No, they're not paid to answer questions. They do get free advertising on the website.

I'm guessing that the LC herself is liable. I believe BFDC covered its collective behind with a disclaimer that the website is not liable for any information found herein, yada yada.

[Amy_G_]

I think the LC's are volunteers who get exposure and advertising for free in exchange for giving the advice. many of them link to their websites, try to sell their products and often have their own message boards available--of course, not with much traffic on them.

[bugaboo]

I think Texas has it right ...
BITCH, BITCH, BITCH ... haven't y'all got nothin better to do than slag of bf.com yet again ... can they do Nothin right for y'all

and Amy_G you don't know ur ass from a hole in the ground!!!! lmao

[TuetonicWillow]

TW, did you let your certification expire?

I plan to.