Goat's Rue and More Milk Plus

[unique201]

I've been using both supplements for a week now and do not see any increase in my supply. I have a 3 month old who drinks 1 oz of BM and 2oz of formula (unfortunately this was something that was started in NICU). My goal was to weane her off of the formula completely, but I can't seem to pump more than 1 oz at each session regardless of how much time I spend or how often I massage my breasts. I am currently taking 2 capsules of each herb 3x a day. Please tell me what I am doing wrong. My baby is getting hungrier and I do not want to increase the formula.

[RedheadbyChoice]

What kind of pump do you have? How often are you pumping and how often are you nursing?

[RedheadbyChoice]

Here's some more info for you; they're links, click on the colored text.

how supply works (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction.html)

relactatopm and adoptive nursing....lots of good pumping info here (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/adopt/relactation-resources.html)

not pumping enough milk, what can I do? (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/pumping_decrease.html)

workign and pumping tips (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bf-links-pumping.html)

and when you're ready: weaning from formula supplements (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/decrease-formula.html)

[Nipple_nectar]

We can help you get baby back to breast (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html), is baby nursing at all? Was your baby born full term? Why the NICU stay?

I need to know how you are feeding your baby, are you using artificial nipples? My recommendation would be a supplemental nursing system (http://www.lact-aid.com) which promotes suckling at the breast and will closely mimic exclusive BFing. This will also eliminate nipple confusion (http://www.breastfeeding.com/all_about/all_about_confusion.html)

Goat's rue is more effective in tincture form (http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php)and that is what I would recommend.

[unique201]

Hi Ladies,
Thank you for the info. To answer the questions, I am using the Medela Pump In Style and pump 3 times a day while at work (9-6). In the morning, I BF at 5, 7 and then right before I leave 8. No supplement in the morning until 9:30 when she's at the sitter's. When I return from work I BF at 6:30, 9:30 and between 11-12. All these feedings are supplemented by 2oz. of formula. If the baby wakes up the middle of the night, I BF her exclusively and she seems to be content and falls back to sleep.
My baby was 1 month premature and was in NICU for a slight fever and low blood suger. They released her a few days after they released me. I BF at every feeding except nighttime, but I don't think my supply ever came in completely because of this. I tried to pump and pumped less than 1/2 oz. from both breasts! I was worried that I was taking away from my daughter, so I stopped pumping and put her to breast at each feeding since she came home until 2 weeks ago when I returned to work.
I am using the Dr. Brown bottles to feed her the BM I express the day before (1oz for each feeding) and the 2oz. of formula. The baby sitter is telling me that she is still hungry after the 3oz. but I don't want to increase the formula...I want to increase the BM. Please help! I'm about to give in to more formula....

[RedheadbyChoice]

Does babe nurse in the middle of night at all? Have you seen an LC to assess if perhaps there's a milk transfer issue?

[Nipple_nectar]

First off, you sound like you are doing pretty good! What I would do to establish, exactly how much she is getting at each session, you can weigh her before and after nursing to get an exact amount.

Rent yourself a baby scale and get weighing her at EVERY SESSION. Here is a milk calculator to determine how much supplementing she needs: www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html#


When you said you BF at every feeding except nightime, did you mean you supplement at every feeding? Why are you still supplementing on the sessions when you are home? Are you worried that the exclusive BFing is not enough?

One thing to know about giving a breastfed baby a bottle~ baby is used to sucking and using a great amount of jaw work for an average amount of milk. Take that baby who is used to nursing for 30-40 minutes~ this baby is used to alot more stimulation than a bottle of expressed milk through an artificial nipple can give, it's usually done in less than ten minutes and baby will crave more oral stimulation.

Don't confuse this with actual hunger. Also, formula has alot of additives, so you may need 5-8 ounces when breastmilk, which properties are unique and pure, you will only need 3-5 ounces.

Also take into account that babys have a reflex when something is placed on their tongues, they automatically suck, this is not a true sign of hunger.

Now, knowing all that~ what I would do, is weigh baby before and after a nursing session and see what babys accurate input is so you can tell the sitter what is appropriate for baby.

Now, for the greatest boost for pumping, I recommend that you rent a hospital grade pump, they are stronger and designed for all day use. You need to be pumping more often, is that possible at your work?

Also, keep in mind that your supply is at it's natural peak in the am, if your baby is consistent about wake up time, then I would wake two hours earlier and squeeze in a blockbuster pumping session!

From 9-6, I would definitely have at least 4 pumping sessions lasting a minimum of ten minutes per side. To increase supply, it is actually the frequency of your sessions, not the length that will yield more milk.

You can also do compressions and massage during the pumping session to help with let down.

[unique201]

Thank you for the great advice. i just rented the Medela Syphony and will begin to use it tonight or tomorrow. As for the following: "When you said you BF at every feeding except nightime, did you mean you supplement at every feeding? Why are you still supplementing on the sessions when you are home? Are you worried that the exclusive BFing is not enough?" I meant that I breastfed my baby while in NICU at every feeding except nightime. The nurses would give her formula at 12:30AM, 3:30AM and 6:30AM. Now, if she wakes up anytime after 9:30 (sometimes I give her 1oz between 11-12am), I stricly BF her until she is at the sitters at 9:30AM. The only reason I give her supplement at the 6:30 and 9:30pm feeding is because she is sooo hungry that my BM is not enough. I have tried to keep her on my breast every hour from the time I come home, but she is not satisfied.
I will see how the new pump works...hopefully I will be able to send more to the sitters. Thanks again.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Question.........how is just nursing enough for her in the middle of the night, but not at other times? Is is because she conks out and goes right back to sleep? What does she do, at other times, to make you feel that she's not satisfied?

Hang in there, momma! :hug:

[unique201]

Yes, I think it's enough because she is so tired and sleepy that all she needs is a small snack. During the evening, after I BF her she suckles on her hand and continues to look for my breast. When I put her to breast, she gets frustrated because she's not drinking anything. After I give her the formula, she gets calm and is a happy baby again.

[Amy_G_]

Yes, I think it's enough because she is so tired and sleepy that all she needs is a small snack. During the evening, after I BF her she suckles on her hand and continues to look for my breast. When I put her to breast, she gets frustrated because she's not drinking anything. After I give her the formula, she gets calm and is a happy baby again.

realize that if she's suckling on her hand, she may not be hungry, she may just want to suck. do you remove her from the breast after a certain amount of time or does she remove herself?

if she's continuing to look for your breast, but when she gets it she's not happy--you need to realize that if she nurses, she'll get milk--your breasts are never really empty. but it's not gonna be a fast flow, like the bottle. she gets calm after the bottle maybe because she's like us after a turkey dinner--stuffed up to the gils and hard to be really unhappy, maybe too full, but not really enough to be unhappy.

If you don't give her the bottle of formula, what does she do? that's key. you need to try to not give the formula, and just keep switching back and forth from one breast to the other and then when you are pretty sure you are both done, swaddle her up for the night and give her a pacifier if you really think she needs to suck more but isn't happy.

giving the bottle of formula after each breastfeeding fills her up gives her a quick fill up. so she's not nursing as long or as often as she as she should be at her age. so she's sleeping longer, skipping breastfeeding times that when you are together would be upping your supply naturally.

if you are going to give any supplements when you are together, they should be thru a supplemental nursing system. when you are apart, have a super slow flow nipple, and have them give her one ounce at a time, with burping in between. and I really don't think she needs much more than 3 ounces total in a bottle. she might want 4, but most likely she just wants to suck on something--so a slower flow nipple that she has to work to get milk out of will keep her sucking longer and help fill her need.

.

[Amy_G_]

I'd also consider oatmeal and fenugeek for upping your supply. different things work for different women.