Our Sleep Issues

[Stephanie]

Ds is 3 and dd is 2, and I think I have sleep monsters. Dh and I are at our wits end.

We have obviously tired children, we have a bedtime routine. As soon as we lay down, they decide it is time to wake up. They can be nodding off to sleep and will pull themselves out of it. They force themselves to stay awake.

We have tried a few times to see how long they would stay up before falling asleep. We were pushing 1am before dh and I could not stay up in longer. They just work and work at keeping themselves up.

I don't know how they do it. Dh and I are at a loss. We would like a few minutes alone before we go to bed. Any suggestions?

[RedheadbyChoice]

What's naptime like? Is there a parent home with them during the day, or are they at DCP? Have you read the Pantley book, No-Cry Sleep Solution? They have one for toddlers, as well.

(and :hug: I have 2 kids, of my 4, who don't need much sleep at all)

[Stephanie]

They are at daycare, they both nap for about an hour. We had ds's teacher shorten his nap time because he was sleeping way too long, but that hasn't helped at all. We just ordered the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers, so hopefully it will be a help.

It would be fine if they weren't tired, we have yawning and crankiness. Mornigns are nightmarish for dh, because they are tired, and don't want to get up. They start to fall asleep pretty quickly and wake themselves back up. If we could figure out how to keep them from doing that, I think I would have much more well rested children. I just don't know how to do that.

[RedheadbyChoice]

So what's the current bedtime routine?

[madelsmama]

That's my question as well, Ginger. What time does the routine start, and what time is the goal for bedtime?

[Stephanie]

Our bed time routine usually goes brush teeth, books, bed. Baths are a bit earlier, with quiet playtime in between. We usually start about 9 with teeth, kids are almost asleep at 9:30, wake themselves up and are up until about 10:30.

We have tried starting our bedtime routine closer to 10, and the kids are up until 11:30 or later. We have tried starting bedtime earlier and it was more frustrating because they weren't tired at that point. They are tired at around 9.

Our goal would be to get them to sleep the first time they were nodding off, and to have less grumpy children in hte morning.

[RedheadbyChoice]

What about quiet play before the baths? I'm wondering if that play time, after baths, gives them more energy? Even something quiet, can be stimulating, but not always in an obvious way. IDK, sugar, just trying to brainstorm here.

How long from baths is it to bedtime?

What specifically do you do at that time with them? (the quiet play after baths, but before bed?)

What's the rest of the house like at that time? TV going somewhere? Lots of lights? Quiet music?

What time are they up in the AM?

I *so* hear you on the grumpy kids in the AM. Oh dude. I hate hate hate hate it. DH gets the big girls up in the AM, thankfully, as the oldest is like her momma and NOT a morning person. The younger DD is happier in the AM, but still can be gritchy. But, it's more important for her to see her daddy; if I let her sleep in a bit, and she doesn't see him? Holy snot, that's worse than cranky! The boy doesn't usually wake up in the AM, when DH is still there. *sigh* And it's hit or miss on him, whether he's pleasant or crabby. A lot of that will be changing this fall, and DS will be in school all day. It's awfully hard for us to have him go to bed much earlier, as DH isn't always home, because of farming.

Hang in there, momma. :hug:

[Stephanie]

It is pretty quiet in our house, we are both putting the kids to bed. Playtime before is pretty low key, coloring, books, blocks. Occassionally dh will get them a little wound up with wrestling, but what can you do? Bath is usally about 6:30-7. Bathtime gets them very wound up, so we try to do it right after dinner.

I was hoping we were doing something wrong with bedtime, but it may just be the way the kiddos are. :) I blame it on dh's genes, he stays up very late and requires very little sleep.

They do share a room, and we are going to split them up. I think it will be helpful, even though they are both quiet when we are laying down, dd always wants to know what big brother is up to.

[RedheadbyChoice]

IIWM, I'd try to shorten that time, from baths to bed, making it's baths, teeth, stories, and then bed. Do either of you lie down with the kids, to help them relax? Would that help them or wire them, thinking momma and daddy are there to play? Or a way to change bathtime, so it's not so stimulating for them? IDK

What time do the kids get up in the AM? You said they were crabby, how long does the crabby last? Do they get happier, the longer they are up? Do they need a bit more time to wake up, like an adult needs coffee? My girls seem to need that time in the AM, to veg and watch TV, before they're fit for human consumption. That could be an option as well, to get them up earlier, giving them some time to wake up and motivate....which could, in turn, make them a bit more weary at night.

[SingingMom]

Try separating them as well. I recently moved my 7 year old out of line of sight from his 8 year old sister, and now EVERYONE is getting more sleep. It turns out the 8 year old was making faces and quiet jokes and then pretending to be asleep.

She is a master at getting other people into trouble... Grr.

[Stephanie]

Bathtime hypes my kids up. They need a little time to calm down after taking a bath. But, maybe it would helpl. We are willing to try anything at this point.

We do lay with them. Most nights, ds needs someone with him. This adds to our frustration because we are spending 1.5 hours laying in bed with them. Dd thinks its playtime when anyone is around, so it doesn't help her. But, she doesn't want to be alone if ds isn't.

We just moved ds into the guest room today, so we are hoping that will help. :) Dd will probably spend a few nights playing, but I am sure she will figure it out. Ds won't be there to excite her.

I just don't understand why they are so close to being asleep and wake themselves up.

[Amy_G_]

How does bathtime hype them up? bathtime includes SOME playtime, but for safety no standing, no jumping up and down, etc. Bathe them separately if they are playing too much. Then since it's summertime, get them a baby pool and let them do the more rambuncious play in the pool with adult supervision during the day. Make sure daytimes have lots of running around and playing.

I'd move bathtime and bedtime near each other and make everything earlier than 9. I'd consider about 8 or 8:30pm depending on what time you need to get up in the am. We would do dinner, round of playtime, then snack, bathtime with some quieter rules, pj's, brush teeth, books, lights out except nightlight, prayers, sing quiet songs.

Make the nighttime routine as close to exactly the same every night as possible. I think you have the routine going too late, so they've missed their sleepy time, and they have to wait for the cycle to come around again.

Stay in the room with them, in as dark as they will stand it, rules of in bed, no talking, no playing until they go to sleep. once they will go to sleep, you can start leaving the room once they are almost out with an excuse that you have to go to the bathroom or let the cat out or get a drink of water and return after a few minutes to check on them to be sure they are not playing around.

the next morning, get them outside asap--get the sunlight on their retinas at the time of day you want them to get up each morning. maybe serve breakfast outside for a couple days.

You may need to separate them for sleeping, but one of mine sleeps well alone and the other sleeps poorly alone, so you may have to adjust and make some rules.