Subway restaurant anti-homeschool?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com/ kids/contest. aspx>

Subway has a contest for kids that excludes homeschoolers. At the
bottom of the page you will see this paragraph.

"Contest is open only to legal US residents, over the age of 18 with
children in either elementary, private or parochial schools that
serve grades PreK-6. No home schools will be accepted."

If I ate at Subway I'd boycott.

Legally, I'm not even sure how that works. In my state my home is considered a private school.

[Sunnie]

http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com/ kids/contest. aspx>

Subway has a contest for kids that excludes homeschoolers. At the
bottom of the page you will see this paragraph.

"Contest is open only to legal US residents, over the age of 18 with
children in either elementary, private or parochial schools that
serve grades PreK-6. No home schools will be accepted."

If I ate at Subway I'd boycott.

Legally, I'm not even sure how that works. In my state my home is considered a private school.


What would you do with an industrial sized playground? That's the prize, which is to go to the child's school.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I would probably donate it to the local public school, whose playground is pretty sparce.

[Sunnie]

So why not let a child who goes there possibly win it instead? A child who would be able to use the playground then?

[Suzette]

If the winner was a homeschooler, they could donate it to their local school district. It would still be able to be enjoyed by the homeschooler.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Because I wouldn't give my money to an organization that would specifically exclude my child from entering a contest based on where they attend school?

[Sunnie]

Because I wouldn't give my money to an organization that would specifically exclude my child from entering a contest based on where they attend school?


No, I mean why get upset that they want to limit the contest to children who'd benefit from the prize?

[Suzette]

Sasha posted before me!
Sunnie, HS children are able to participate in local district activities. The playground could be used by anyone really, during off hours. Unless, of course, there's a rule against using playgrounds when school's not in session.

[Sunnie]

Most schools don't let kids use the playground during non school hours. Liability.

And I'm not a complete idiot. I'm very well aware that HS kids participate in local district activities. Those aren't held on playground equipment though.

I'm just not feeling that Subway is being anti-homeschooling. It may just have honestly not occurred to them that homeschoolers could donate to a local school or park or that they would be involved in some school stuff. Instead of talking boycott, why not e-mail them and gently educate them?

[Suzette]

Here kids, even adults use school tennis courts, playgrounds, etc, during off hours.

[BeanBabies]

I'd be EXTREMELY curious as to why they excluded homeschoolers. I wonder if they had past incidents with people claiming homeschooling but in essence just trying to get something?

Have you thought of contacting them and asking?

I remember in Canada, there were always contests that included all provinces and territories except Quebec. I always thought that was weird.

[chickabiddy]

It would make sense to me to say that the industrial playground prize must be installed in a public/private/parochial school playground (as opposed to a homeschooler's backyard) -- if a homeschooled child wins. s/he can choose where to put the playground. I don't like the way it was handled.

[BeanBabies]

Does the playground have to be at a school, though?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Instead of talking boycott, why not e-mail them and gently educate them?

Many homeschoolers are and don't assume that I haven't myself. That doesn't mean that I can't mention it to others as well, though.

I have a limited amount of expendable income. I won't give that income to companies who would specifically exclude my children from a contest. :shrug: I'm not sure why that's hard to understand. After all, I'm not gay but I won't give my money to the Salvation Army. I don't give money to Nestle or other organizations with practices that I find negative.

They can exclude whom they want, I can not purchase their items. I can also tell others, who might choose to do the same.

ETA: Also, the grand prize is athletic equipment. There are other prizes, including a Scholastic gift basket (my kids read, believe it or not), a $100 Subway card (my kids eat too), as well as the story being published in a magazine and on Subway's website. Why *shouldn't* my kids have a chance to win those prizes?

[tata]

It would make sense to me to say that the industrial playground prize must be installed in a public/private/parochial school playground (as opposed to a homeschooler's backyard) -- if a homeschooled child wins. s/he can choose where to put the playground. I don't like the way it was handled.
I agree.

If the state you live in recognizes homeschooling as a private school, then it doesn't seem likely that Subway can exclude your children. But then again, what the hell do I know?

[Elffriend]

This was being discussed on one of the homeschooling lists I'm on. Some people are really up in arms and others say that they can see why Subway did it this way. It's part of their whole Subway=Healthy campaign. They want to donate equipment to a school, this is their way of doing it.

I think they could have done better. In the town I used to live in, public school playgrounds were considered public parks and anyone could use them when school was out. There were also plenty of other public parks a homeschooling could donate the equipment to.

A simple clause such as "Grand Prize will be donated to the school, park or community center of the winner's choice" would have allowed them to include homeschoolers.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Elffriend, I've not seen it verified but what I've read on homeschooling lists is that Subway is tight with teacher's unions, which is why they specifically excluded homeschoolers. Have you seen that?

[CatSoup]

That doesn't seem like a plausible reason.

[Elffriend]

No, I haven't read that.

I'm kind of surprised that Scholastic is part of this, too. They have always been open to homeschoolers using their bookclubs for cheap books. We get the same incentives as a classroom teacher and can attend the annual warehouse sales they have.

[Justicedog]

Scholastic warehouse sales exclude non-homeschooling parents who aren't able to volunteer at the school, so, I guess it evens out.

ETA: I don't see the big deal. They want to provide playground/athletic equipment to a child's school so that many kids can use it.

That link doesn't go to the playground contest. I'd love to find it though as my kids' school is in need of playground equipment

[Amy_G_]

I would probably donate it to the local public school, whose playground is pretty sparce.

Probably is the key here, Sasha.
You would probably donate it.
but maybe you'd decide to sell it to the school or elsewhere and make a profit and negate the reason for subway donating it to a public school.

[Amy_G_]

Sasha posted before me!
Sunnie, HS children are able to participate in local district activities. The playground could be used by anyone really, during off hours. Unless, of course, there's a rule against using playgrounds when school's not in session.
In many states, HSers cannot participate in district events.
and the schools are locked up after hours to prevent vandalism and graffiti.

[Amy_G_]

Scholastic warehouse sales exclude non-homeschooling parents who aren't able to volunteer at the school, so, I guess it evens out.

ETA: I don't see the big deal. They want to provide playground/athletic equipment to a child's school so that many kids can use it.
That link doesn't go to the playground contest. I'd love to find it though as my kids' school is in need of playground equipment

If they want to donate to a public school in order to reach the highest number of kids, it makes perfect sense to me.

[QuiltyConscience]

I really don't see this as anti-homeschooling. Subway wants the playground equipment to go to a school, and that really is fine with me, I'm not offended by that. Lots of schools need new playground equipment.

[Babyhellfire]

I really don't see this as anti-homeschooling. Subway wants the playground equipment to go to a school, and that really is fine with me, I'm not offended by that. Lots of schools need new playground equipment.
ITA.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Probably is the key here, Sasha.
You would probably donate it.
but maybe you'd decide to sell it to the school or elsewhere and make a profit and negate the reason for subway donating it to a public school.
What if a sixth grader in my school or in many other middle schools wins? There is absolutely no place to put playground equipment in this school, nor is time allowed to use it even if there were a place to put it. What happens to the playground equipment in that case? There is no more of a definite here than there is in the case of a homeschooler winning.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I really don't see this as anti-homeschooling. Subway wants the playground equipment to go to a school, and that really is fine with me, I'm not offended by that. Lots of schools need new playground equipment.
And lots of schools don't want playground equipment and would have no place to put it even if they did want it.

[Justicedog]

It's athletic equipment, so that could be balls, bats, dance dance revolution etc.

[Pallas]

In my community, homeschoolers attend those warehouse sales. None of us (to my knowledge) volunteer at school, nor are we dishonest about what kind of teachers we are. Perhaps the rules are different in different areas?

I agree that the contest rules could have been modified to serve the same purpose (equipment for the use of many kids) without excluding homeschoolers.

Pallas

Scholastic warehouse sales exclude non-homeschooling parents who aren't able to volunteer at the school, so, I guess it evens out.

ETA: I don't see the big deal. They want to provide playground/athletic equipment to a child's school so that many kids can use it.

That link doesn't go to the playground contest. I'd love to find it though as my kids' school is in need of playground equipment

[JudyJudyJudy]

It's athletic equipment, so that could be balls, bats, dance dance revolution etc.
Wait. I thought the argument was that homeschoolers would have nowhere to put a big playground. Our homeschooling group could certainly use the things that you listed.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Pallas, I think she was saying that Scholastic excludes parents of kids in school if the parents don't volunteer in school.

[BeanBabies]

If they want to donate to a public school in order to reach the highest number of kids, it makes perfect sense to me.

But what about the home-schooler who wants to have the equipment set up in a local park used by many homeschoolers? Playground equipment is going to be used by kids no matter where it's set up. Why only a school? Why not a public park where all kids from all schools (and homeschoolers) can enjoy it?

[Justicedog]

Correct Judy. I said non-homeschooling parents. I suppose I could have stated it in the positive, but Sasha said that her homeschool is considered a private school, so if I'd have said public or private school parents, it may not have applied.

[Justicedog]

But what about the home-schooler who wants to have the equipment set up in a local park used by many homeschoolers? Playground equipment is going to be used by kids no matter where it's set up. Why only a school? Why not a public park where all kids from all schools (and homeschoolers) can enjoy it?

Because Subway wanted to donate to a school, not a park.

[BeanBabies]

Duh, really?

[Justicedog]

Duh, really?


Ask a stupid question ....

The more I think about this the more annoying it is. They wanted to donate to a school. It's like being ticked at a company who donates to The American Heart Association because you think they should donate to the Breast Cancer group.

(Or, perhaps I'm annoyed at not being able to find the stupid little part that broke on our pool filter and it's making everything more annoying.)

[Amy_G_]

If we are going to discuss this, perhaps we should know how to enter the contest:
http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com/kids/contest.aspx

and the rules
http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com/kids/disclaimer.html

MOST homeschoolers have their own home athletic equipment and don't need $5000 in athletic equipment: baseball bats, gloves and playground balls, do they?

MOST schools would find good use for that much equipment, our school has a playground but the PE departement is always in need of some equipment.

[Pallas]

Pallas, I think she was saying that Scholastic excludes parents of kids in school if the parents don't volunteer in school.

Ah! Fortunately, we haven't reached "Reading for Comprehension" in our curriculum. Or unfortunately.

:D

[JudyJudyJudy]

MOST homeschoolers have their own home athletic equipment
And you base these stats on what?


and don't need $5000 in athletic equipment: baseball bats, gloves and playground balls, do they?
Our homeschooling group often works with another homeschooling group, so that's a pretty large group of people. I daresay that we could very well use such equipment. While some homeschooling parents are "well-off" and might be able to afford such equipment, many are far, far from well-off and are usually from families with only one working parent.

[JudyJudyJudy]

If we are going to discuss this, perhaps we should know how to enter the contest:
http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com/kids/contest.aspx
Why should that exclude homeschoolers?


and the rules
http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com/kids/disclaimer.html
I don't get your point. The rules are Sasha's entire argument. :confused:

[Amy_G_]

Judy,
most families have their own baseball bat, baseball and soccer balls etc.
that's a lot different than a school that does not have these items for 1000 elementary students.
does your homeschool group have 1000 students like my elementary school?
I will argue that giving the athletic equipment to an elementary school will impact the lives of more kids.

If you were donating would you prefer to give something that 50 or 100 kids would be able to use, or something that 1000 students would be able to use?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Judy,
most families have their own baseball bat, baseball and soccer balls etc.
Really? Again, where are you getting these stats?


that's a lot different than a school that does not have these items for 1000 elementary students.
does your homeschool group have 1000 students like my elementary school?
No, nor does our elementary school.


I will argue that giving the athletic equipment to an elementary school will impact the lives of more kids.

If you were donating would you prefer to give something that 50 or 100 kids would be able to use, or something that 1000 students would be able to use?
There are schools that have fewer students than our homeschooling group. Should those schools be excluded?

[Bohemian]

They wanted to donate to a school. It's like being ticked at a company who donates to The American Heart Association because you think they should donate to the Breast Cancer group.




This is where I'm at and I'm a homeschooler. It would be nice if the included everyone but it doesn't bother me that they are wishing to donate to a public school. It's their donation, their choice. While whomever is entitled to be annoyed or worked up over the exclusion it's not justified imo because Subway is no way obligated to include all.

Maybe Subway doesn't agree with Homeschooling? What if the contest allowed public schools, homeschools, private non religious schools but religious school were excluded? You can't force a company to donate to people they don't want to nor should anyone feel entitled to someone's donation.

[Pallas]

MOST homeschoolers have their own home athletic equipment and don't need $5000 in athletic equipment: baseball bats, gloves and playground balls, do they?

MOST schools would find good use for that much equipment, our school has a playground but the PE departement is always in need of some equipment.

If the issue is Who Needs the Equipment More, then why have a contest? :rolleyes:

I could argue (just for fun) that MOST homeschoolers would find a good use for that much equipment, too.

In my neighborhood, there's both an elementary school that's always very helpful when it comes to using their facilities (I'd love to surprise them with a playground that included more than a set of parallel bars and a swingset.) and a church where we hold homeschool soccer league (bonus: the younger siblings would have a new place to play during practice.).

What if we donated it to the park where we have our weekly playdates and holiday events? Hm. That's three different hs organizations, each with 80+ families, plus the neighborhood kids who would have the opportunity to enjoy the winnings. There are many Real Schools(tm) with a smaller population.

If the issue is not Need but which children deserve to be allowed to compete, how does one justify leaving the homeschoolers out? What about Sasha's interest in the secondary prizes? I'm betting most homeschooled kids read and eat. Really! Just like regular kids! "lol9"

Also, just to be contrary, I will dispute that "MOST homeschoolers have their own home athletic equipment." Perhaps the hs community is wealthier in your area. Where I am it's comprised mostly of lower- and middle-income families because most of us are budgeting on one income. Each year we barely scrape together enough donated/borrowed items to supply our Field Day competitions.

This is not a complaint or a demand for public funding! Lawd, no! Just correcting the impression that homeschoolers' backyards are filled with trampolines, ziplines, soccer nets, monkey bars, etc.

Namaste,

Pallas

[JudyJudyJudy]

This is where I'm at and I'm a homeschooler. It would be nice if the included everyone but it doesn't bother me that they are wishing to donate to a public school.
They're not limiting it to a public school.


It's their donation, their choice. While whomever is entitled to be annoyed or worked up over the exclusion it's not justified imo because Subway is no way obligated to include all.
That makes no sense at all. Of course, Subway is not obligated to include all. Likewise, those who are irritated by this aren't obligated to give Subway business. It's our choice to be "annoyed or worked up over the exclusion" just as it's Subway's choice to decide whom to exclude.


Maybe Subway doesn't agree with Homeschooling? What if the contest allowed public schools, homeschools, private non religious schools but religious school were excluded? You can't force a company to donate to people they don't want to nor should feel entitled to someone's donation.
No one is trying to "force" anyone to do anything.

[Bohemian]

I guess Judy. If you or whomever is not wanting Subway to change the rules to include homeschoolers then why the upset? Why get upset if you know that Subway gets to decide who they want included in a contest if not for the reason that you feel homeschool should also be included?

If people feel strongly about it then don't give Subway your business. Get angry, get irritated, whatever. Still doesn't mean you're justified in feeling like you should be included in a contest just because you want to be.

It's like public school parents getting pissed that they don't get the Barnes and Nobles discounts given to School institutions and homeschoolers.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Amy, in all seriousness, if most people you know are well-off enough to have athletic equipment at home, perhaps those people should be donating to your local schools.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I guess Judy. If you or whomever is not wanting Subway to change the rules to include homeschoolers then why the upset? Why get upset if you know that Subway gets to decide who they want included in a contest if not for the reason that you feel homeschool should also be included?

If people feel strongly about it then don't give Subway your business. Get angry, get irritated, whatever. Still doesn't mean you're justified in feeling like you should be included in a contest just because you want to be.
Again, you aren't making any sense at all. We are "justified" to feel any way that we want just as Subway is justified in excluding us if they want. If we want to boycott them, then, yes, like it or not, we are "justified" to do it. I don't see how you can argue otherwise. I have every right to choose what companies I will give my business to whether you or anyone else likes it or not. If I choose not to give a company my business because I don't like the color of the logo, that's my choice.

[JudyJudyJudy]

It's like public school parents getting pissed that they don't get the Barnes and Nobles discounts given to School institutions and homeschoolers.
And they're free to boycott B&N if they so choose.

[bocarioja]

Last time I ate at Subway, I had explosive diarreah that smelled like rotting fish. On top of that, I never thought I could fart so much. It was seriously the loudest I ever farted in my life. Have you ever seen a helicopter make waves when it flys low above water? Thank you, Subway.

I am in no way defending their decision to exclude homeschoolers from this contest, but maybe Subway is trying to realize a tax benefit from this "donation?" Schools are designated as non-profits, and they can provide tax forms that perhaps a homeschooler can not? I am probably totally wrong, but thought I would throw that out for discussion sake.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Our homeschooling group is designated as a nonprofit organization. We're even eligible to use the Box Tops for Education.

[bocarioja]

I didn't know that was a possibility, Judy. It's good to know.

[JudyJudyJudy]

boca, I'll PM you.

[Bohemian]

No, I'm not getting my point across.

Obviously this is causing upset because "some" homeschoolers feel they have a right to be included and should be allowed to enter. They don't have the right though. That is all I'm saying. Just because you think it should be a certain way doesn't mean it should be that way or that you're right and Subway is wrong. Subway can donate to whoever the heck they want and sure you can be upset at being excluded but it seems silly since they aren't doing anything wrong by excluding homeschoolers.

If someone knows and accepts that there is no reason for a company to donate to them, then again, I ask, why get upset? Why get angry and boycott? Why should they include homeschoolers if they don't want to?

[JudyJudyJudy]

No, I'm not getting my point across.

Obviously this is causing upset because "some" homeschoolers feel they have a right to be included and should be allowed to enter. They don't have the right though. That is all I'm saying. Just because you think it should be a certain way doesn't mean it should be that way or that you're right and Subway is wrong. Subway can donate to whoever the heck they want and sure you can be upset at being excluded but it seems silly since they aren't doing anything wrong by excluding homeschoolers.

If someone knows and accepts that there is no reason for a company to donate to them, then again, I ask, why get upset? Why get angry and boycott? Why should they include homeschoolers if they don't want to?
Oh, wow, no, you're the one who is being silly. One can accept that a company has a right to do whatever it wants yet at the same time exercise her right not to give business to the company because she doesn't like the choices the company has made. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[TuetonicWillow]

I can see both sides of this argument. However, I fall on the "Subway doesn't have to include homeschoolers" side and can't see how not including homeschooled children is ANTI-homeschooling.

If I were giving away playground/atheletic equipment in this manner, I wouldn't want homeschoolers to be allowed to enter, either. Hoemschool co-ops or legitimate groups, yes. One lone family, no. I'm sure that is what Subway is thinking.

Likely, a homeschooling group of som sort would qualify as a school.

Not one lone family, though. I do get why Subway made the stipulation.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Basically, Subway has the "right" to exclude my child from its contest. If I don't like the choices that Subway makes, I have the "right" to exclude Subway from the list of companies to which I'll give my business.

[TuetonicWillow]

I think anybody who is unhappy with any business should put their money elsewhere. It's the only way to hurt a business, really.

[Bohemian]

You're ignoring my questions and keep focusing on the "feelings" about this. I never said you shouldn't feel whatever way you want to feel about the Subway company. Just as you're entitled to feel upset that they are excluding homeschoolers, I'm entitled to feel it's a silly thing to get upset about. Why is that difficult to understand?

Bluntly, I don't get the upset and the outrage over being excluded from something you have no right to be included in. And I'm entitled to feel that way just as you're entitled to get upset at Subway or whatever company you *think* is doing you wrong or you don't agree with. I never meant anything different.


eta: this is addressed to Judy

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think anybody who is unhappy with any business should put their money elsewhere. It's the only way to hurt a business, really.
Exactly. I'm having a difficult time understanding why Bohemian thinks that because I acknowledge that Subway has the right to make the rules for its contest that I can't choose not to give Subway my business if I don't like the decisions that the company makes.

As an analogy, a politician has every right to vote how he chooses on various issues. Likewise, I have every right to choose not to give my vote to that person as a candidate.

[TuetonicWillow]

People are excluded from contests all the time. Employees and their families of subsidiaries can't enter contests, men can't enter Mother's Day contests, illegal residents can't enter contests...hell, a local one here excluded anyone less than 21 and older than 30. The contest was something about "20somethings in Hampton Roads". Technically, they excluded me. Should I be offended? Seriously?

The Subway contest is for school students. Anyone not registered at a recognized school can't enter. It's no different than restricting entrance to certain ages or residents of certain towns...yadda yadda. I mean, how many times do you see a contest that says "Open only to adults over age 18, legal residents of *your state*..."

I guess I don't see it. I understand being peeved at it initially, but the more I think about it, the more I also think it's like being angry at a company because they donate to March of Dimes and not St. Jude's.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You're ignoring my questions and keep focusing on the "feelings" about this.
What questions?


I never said you shouldn't feel whatever way you want to feel about the Subway company. Just as you're entitled to feel upset that they are excluding homeschoolers, I'm entitled to feel it's a silly thing to get upset about. Why is that difficult to understand?
Of course, you're entitled to your feelings. I don't think anyone has told you otherwise.


Bluntly, I don't get the upset and the outrage over being excluded from something you have no right to be included in.
The only reason I have no "right" not to be included is because Subway chose not to include me. It's not as though it would be illegal for the company to include my child.


And I'm entitled to feel that way just as you're entitled to get upset at Subway or whatever company you *think* is doing you wrong or you don't agree with. I never meant anything different.
No, you kept insisting that we weren't justified (your word) in our feelings and should NOT be boycotting Subway. What you're saying now is entirely different from what you were saying before.

[Bohemian]

People are excluded from contests all the time. Employees and their families of subsidiaries can't enter contests, men can't enter Mother's Day contests, illegal residents can't enter contests...hell, a local one here excluded anyone less than 21 and older than 30. The contest was something about "20somethings in Hampton Roads". Technically, they excluded me. Should I be offended? Seriously?

The Subway contest is for school students. Anyone not registered at a recognized school can't enter. It's no different than restricting entrance to certain ages or residents of certain towns...yadda yadda. I mean, how many times do you see a contest that says "Open only to adults over age 18, legal residents of *your state*..."

I guess I don't see it. I understand being peeved at it initially, but the more I think about it, the more I also think it's like being angry at a company because they donate to March of Dimes and not St. Jude's.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. The title of this thread is asking if Subway is anti homeschool because they are excluding HS's. I don't think they are.

I never for one moment think that someone isn't entitled to feel however they choose about this Subway contest and do what they think appropriate be it a boycott or whatever. I just don't think they have a valid reason for being upset. NOT that they shouldn't be upset if they want to be just I don't get the upset because imo, Subway has done nothing wrong by excluding homeschoolers and it doesn't make them anti HS.

[JudyJudyJudy]

People are excluded from contests all the time. Employees and their families of subsidiaries can't enter contests, men can't enter Mother's Day contests, illegal residents can't enter contests...hell, a local one here excluded anyone less than 21 and older than 30. The contest was something about "20somethings in Hampton Roads". Technically, they excluded me. Should I be offended? Seriously?

The Subway contest is for school students. Anyone not registered at a recognized school can't enter. It's no different than restricting entrance to certain ages or residents of certain towns...yadda yadda. I mean, how many times do you see a contest that says "Open only to adults over age 18, legal residents of *your state*..."

I guess I don't see it. I understand being peeved at it initially, but the more I think about it, the more I also think it's like being angry at a company because they donate to March of Dimes and not St. Jude's.
Regardless of whether or not you see it, if someone is bothered by any of those things, it's still within the person's "rights" to boycott said companies. Bohemian seemed to be arguing otherwise earlier, and that was my biggest beef with her comments. I don't even know that I'll boycott Subway. My point is that since Subway exercised its "right" to choose whom to exclude, it is my "right" to boycott Subway if I so choose.

[bocarioja]

I see that point, TW... and I agree with others that feel it is Subway's right to design whatever contest they want.

A big but part of me thinks it's just plain sad crappy to exclude young children from trying to win playground equipment. I don't give a shit about who raido/TV contests exclude. But children? Part of me thinks its mean and tactless on the company's part.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I never for one moment think that someone isn't entitled to feel however they choose about this Subway contest and do what they think appropriate be it a boycott or whatever.
You said otherwise earlier.


I just don't think they have a valid reason for being upset. NOT that they shouldn't be upset if they want to be just I don't get the upset because imo, Subway has done nothing wrong by excluding homeschoolers and it doesn't make them anti HS.
Again, according to you, Subway has done nothing wrong. Others feel different, and it's their "right" to feel that way and choose where to give their business as a result.

[Bohemian]

No, you kept insisting that we weren't justified (your word) in our feelings and should NOT be boycotting Subway. What you're saying now is entirely different from what you were saying before.


Well I wasn't getting my point across clearly then because that wasn't what I meant. When I said you're not "justified" what I actually meant was "right" As in, just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you are right and that Subway should included homeschoolers because you feel they should. That's all.

My question was why should homeschoolers be included and if people know that Subway isn't under any obligation to included those they don't want to include, then why is their upset?

[Babyhellfire]

Five,
five,
five dollar ,
five dollar foot long.






Sooo sorry I couldn't resist anymore.
TW ,I agree completely. I have seen many contests that exclude certain states..Alaskans are excluded from most contest where the prize will be shipped...they'd have a lot to boycott if they got really offended over it.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

There are schools that have fewer students than our homeschooling group. Should those schools be excluded?

Yup. There are also private schools with 20 or so students.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Maybe Subway doesn't agree with Homeschooling? What if the contest allowed public schools, homeschools, private non religious schools but religious school were excluded? You can't force a company to donate to people they don't want to nor should anyone feel entitled to someone's donation.


They don't have to agree with anything at all. Nor are they entitled to my business, which is my entire point.

[JudyJudyJudy]

My question was why should homeschoolers be included and if people know that Subway isn't under any obligation to included those they don't want to include, then why is their upset?
Other than to not outwardly discriminate such as not allowing blacks in their businesses, businesses aren't under any obligation for hardly anything. Regardless, patrons get to choose which companies to give their business to, and if they don't like what a company is doing, the best thing to do is to not give their business to them. If a company chooses to hold a contest for all schools except parochial schools, then it's certainly within the rights of parochial schools to get upset and take their business elsewhere. How is this different?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Obviously this is causing upset because "some" homeschoolers feel they have a right to be included and should be allowed to enter. They don't have the right though. That is all I'm saying.

Who are these homeschoolers and where did they say that?

[JudyJudyJudy]

They don't have to agree with anything at all. Nor are they entitled to my business, which is my entire point.
Dammit, Sasha, don't you know that you aren't justified to think like that and take your business elsewhere?!

[Bohemian]

Again, according to you, Subway has done nothing wrong. Others feel different, and it's their "right" to feel that way and choose where to give their business as a result.

Well yeah, and I could say the same. According to you Subway has done something wrong. Others feel different.

I've already clarified several times that I never meant to say or imply that someone shouldn't feel however they choose about this or boycott as a result. If you want to keep focusing on that feel free, I can't clarify anymore than I already have.

I already stated why I feel Subway hasn't done anything wrong. Their donation/contest, their choice. I haven't however heard from the opposing side in hearing why homeschoolers should be included? I know they want to be and who couldn't use free stuff but why should Subway include homeschoolers if they don't want to? How exactly is Subway in the wrong?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I'm just confused all around, Judy. I'm still trying to figure out who is trying to make Subway change their contest rules.

Subway can have whatever rules they want. They happen to be, in this contest, actively excluding my children. I, therefore, will choose to take my food dollars (theoretically) elsewhere, as well as mention to people who might care and who are more likely to buy from Subway than I am. I'm not sure how that translates into demanding that they change their rules, nor do I see a sense of entitlement on my part (except that I'm certainly entitled to decide where my money goes).

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I already stated why I feel Subway hasn't done anything wrong. Their donation/contest, their choice. I haven't however heard from the opposing side in hearing why homeschoolers should be included? I know they want to be and who couldn't use free stuff but why should Subway include homeschoolers if they don't want to? How exactly is Subway in the wrong?

I'm not sure why you want answers to views that nobody has assigned to themselves. Where are you getting these questions from?

[Bohemian]

Dammit, Sasha, don't you know that you aren't justified to think like that and take your business elsewhere?!


Good thing we have people around to keep harping on something previously clarified and ignoring the actual issue. That being, Subway isn't anti homeschool but of course you all are justified in feeling that way even if you are wrong. Although I'm totally open to some valid points on why Subway is in the wrong or anti homeschool because they chose to exclude homeschoolers. Of course if you can't think of any, just keep harping on how you're justified on your feelings and how I said you can't do that...except I didn't mean that. Oh yeah I forgot, it's easier to ignore everything else I said and where I clearly stated that WASN'T what I meant or felt. Much better to be bitchy and focus on one tiny mistake in how I worded something.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I already stated why I feel Subway hasn't done anything wrong. Their donation/contest, their choice. I haven't however heard from the opposing side in hearing why homeschoolers should be included? I know they want to be and who couldn't use free stuff but why should Subway include homeschoolers if they don't want to? How exactly is Subway in the wrong?
"Wrong" may not be the correct term (and I never used the term; you did). Subway has chosen to exclude homeschoolers; that is hurtful to some of us. We haven't said that we should be included, but rather, that we would like to be included and think it would have been fair for us to be included. Therefore, since Subway chose to exclude us from their contest, we may choose to exclude them from the companies to which we give our business. I like to give my business to people who consider me and mine when making their decisions. I'm no more "wrong" for doing that than Subway is "wrong" for making the choices it makes for its company.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Good thing we have people around to keep harping on something previously clarified and ignoring the actual issue. That being, Subway isn't anti homeschool but of course you all are justified in feeling that way even if you are wrong.
Where have I stated that Subway is anti-homeschooling? My entire argument here is that it is my "right" to choose not to give my business to this company if I don't like the choices the company makes.

[Justicedog]

It's like public school parents getting pissed that they don't get the Barnes and Nobles discounts given to School institutions and homeschoolers.


B and N gives discounts to homeschoolers? Those bastards, I'm not shopping there again. Humph! Well, I never really shopped there anyway, but if I did, I wouldn't, double humph!

[Justicedog]

Again, you aren't making any sense at all. We are "justified" to feel any way that we want just as Subway is justified in excluding us if they want. If we want to boycott them, then, yes, like it or not, we are "justified" to do it. I don't see how you can argue otherwise. I have every right to choose what companies I will give my business to whether you or anyone else likes it or not. If I choose not to give a company my business because I don't like the color of the logo, that's my choice.



It's my "right" to "believe" that that's a stupid and unjustified reason to get all upset at a company.

[JudyJudyJudy]

B and N gives discounts to homeschoolers? Those bastards, I'm not shopping there again. Humph! Well, I never really shopped there anyway, but if I did, I wouldn't, double humph!
In all seriousness, you are totally within your rights to not shop at B&N if this bothers you. I certainly wouldn't argue against you if you made that choice.

[Bohemian]

I'm not sure why you want answers to views that nobody has assigned to themselves. Where are you getting these questions from?


Uhh, The title of the thread is "Subway restaurant anti-homeschool?" Then in your op you go on to say how homeschoolers are excluded from a contest at Subway...

It's a pretty obvious conclusion that you think your children should be included since your pondering if Subway is anti homeschool because your children aren't included.

I want to know why you think Subway is anti homeschool.They excluded HS's from this contest. BFD. Are contests that exclude the people working for the company, anti employee? Are the contests that exclude Alaska, anti alaska?

I don't agree that just because a company excludes someone that they are anti that person/group.

[Justicedog]

Exactly. I'm having a difficult time understanding why Bohemian thinks that because I acknowledge that Subway has the right to make the rules for its contest that I can't choose not to give Subway my business if I don't like the decisions that the company makes.

As an analogy, a politician has every right to vote how he chooses on various issues. Likewise, I have every right to choose not to give my vote to that person as a candidate.


How did you feel about those who boycotted the Dixie Chicks?

[JudyJudyJudy]

It's my "right" to "believe" that that's a stupid and unjustified reason to get all upset at a company.
It's your right to believe anything you want. No one can control your thoughts.

[JudyJudyJudy]

How did you feel about those who boycotted the Dixie Chicks?
I said throughout the threads related to that topic that it was their right to do so. I also said that perhaps I'd go out and purchase one of their albums (which I never did) because that was my right.

[Justicedog]

Who are these homeschoolers and where did they say that?



Then why is there a call to boycott Subway?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I like to give my business to people who consider me and mine when making their decisions.

Precisely.

When a company specifically includes only one educational method, I don't think it's a reach to label them as anti-that educational choice.

[Bohemian]

B and N gives discounts to homeschoolers? Those bastards, I'm not shopping there again. Humph! Well, I never really shopped there anyway, but if I did, I wouldn't, double humph!


Actually I'm not sure which companies do. I know a couple of the major bookstores do. It might be Borders that does this. You have to show proof though but I've heard that you just print up a business size card with the name of your homeschool and laminate it.

Bookstores have gotten expensive!! It's been awhile since I'd been to Borders and I went because I had a giftcard for $30 and I totally thought I'd be able to get 3-4 books. Nope, most books I like were in the $15-$20 range or more. I ended up raiding the bargin bin and felt like I got a lot for my money. The bargin bins are great deals, imo.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

It's a pretty obvious conclusion that you think your children should be included since your pondering if Subway is anti homeschool because your children aren't included.


Well, no it's not pretty obvious. However, it's Business 101 to know that when you specifically exclude a group, some in that group might take offense and choose to shop elsewhere. That's why many businesses are careful about their wording if they must exclude groups.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Then why is there a call to boycott Subway?

Where did homeschoolers demand inclusion, as Bohemian claims? I don't think anyone is demanding anything. They are simply stating what *their* choices will be because of the choices that Subway has made.

[QuiltyConscience]

So simply not including one group or the other makes one automatically "Anti"? Is Subway Anti-Illegal alien too? Or Anti-High School? Because those people are excluded from the contest as well. What about the children in France? They must hate them too.


That's IDK Sasha, I just don't see this as Subway picking on homeschoolers. I don't think Subway really gives a rats ass about educational choices one way or the other. All I see is That subway is trying to market "Hey, we're healthy".

[Bohemian]

Well what is the point of a boycott then? Nobody is demanding inclusion in so many words but yes they are surely doing so with their actions. I will boycott this company so that they lose business and see that they are wrong by not including us in this contest.


eta: Boycotting is absolutely about demanding change. You boycott so the company loses money and is forced to change whatever is causing the boycott and gain back the money they are losing from the boycott. That is the whole point, is it not?

[QuiltyConscience]

If one doesn't eat at subway in the first place, continuing to not eat at Subway doesn't make much of an impact, I'd guess.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Boycotting is absolutely about demanding change. You boycott so the company loses money and is forced to change whatever is causing the boycott and gain back the money they are losing from the boycott. That is the whole point, is it not?

:shrug: You assign a lot of your own intent to other peoples actions. When I tell my sons that they cannot participate in the Boy Scouts of America it's not because I'm demanding that the organization stops discriminating against atheists and homosexuals. They can discriminate against whom they choose. I can choose not to support the organization.

Subway can have a contest and give away whatever they'd like to whomever they'd like. I can choose to support Subway or not.

It can be, simply, about conscientious consumerism.

[JudyJudyJudy]

ITA, Sasha.

[JudyJudyJudy]

To add to my last comment, I'll say that I didn't actually tell Jacob that he could NOT participate in Boy Scouts. I told him what I didn't like about Boy Scouts, and he no longer wanted to be a part of it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Serial posting...

I'm also not demanding anything from China, but I have chosen not to buy products made there.

[Babyhellfire]

I thought a boycott was a group of people avoiding doing business with a company in protest of the companies wrongful actions.
--not a singular person choosing not to go there anymore ,right?

No ,Honestly,,I am really not sure.
.walks away pondering if all of these years she has been "boycotting" Mcdonalds,and Steak restaurants.

Oh, quilty ITA again, I am not getting how subway is "antihomeschooling"
They could have worded their contest better,and been more inclusive to homschool groups sure,
but they most likely just wanted their big "donated by subway " EAT FRESH" "stickers stuck on objects with high viability and didn't want them to go in someones backyard- so they excluded home school.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

My boys (well, my oldest anyway) as well, Judy. However, while I did explain my reasons and am glad that he agreed, BS is a non-negotiable for me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I thought a boycott was a group of people avoiding doing business with a company in protest of the companies wrongful actions.
--not a singular person choosing not to go there anymore ,right?
It can be either:

http://www.answers.com/topic/boycott

To abstain from or act together in abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with as an expression of protest or disfavor or as a means of coercion.

The part in bold would be the definition to which Sasha is referring.

[JudyJudyJudy]

My boys (well, my oldest anyway) as well, Judy. However, while I did explain my reasons and am glad that he agreed, BS is a non-negotiable for me.
It is for me, too, but fortunately, I didn't have to get to that point. :D

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

They could have worded their contest better,and been more inclusive to homschool groups sure,
but they most likely just wanted their big "donated by subway " EAT FRESH" "stickers stuck on objects with high viability and didn't want them to go in someones backyard- so they excluded home school.

They could have. Perhaps they should have. As a business, it's probably a good idea to word things carefully.

But they didn't. Therefore, some will choose not to stop for a sub and chips. That may or may not impact Subway and may or may not make a difference at all. But a consumer's words are worth little if they still stand in line for a product while bitching about the company.

I don't normally eat at Subway (I very rarely eat out, although I went through a wicked Subway period early in my second trimester). My mom eats there for lunch several times a week. It's important enough to *her* that she will choose another place to spend her money.

That's business.

[Bohemian]

Huh. So boycotting is just for the principle of it and NOT about the company changing their practice or ways. So when people boycott Nestle it's not because they want Nestle to stop killing babies in third world countries but more about them getting their point across that they think it's wrong and simply won't get their business.

I think that's total bullshit.

You can say you boycott on principle to try and prove an argument in this thread but a majority of boycotting is done so that a financial impact is made on the company and so said company will change to gain back that business they are losing.

Boycotting a organization that is non profit is totally different than boycotting a business aimed at getting your money. Apples and oranges.

[TuetonicWillow]

a consumer's words are worth little if they still stand in line for a product while bitching about the company.

So, so true.

I can't tell you how many customers we have that bitch and moan about mall stores. We hear horror stories, whines, complaints, swears of never shopping there again. But 3 months later, they bring in their new mall store item to be worked on.

They're still putting thier money into the pockets of the places they complain about.

Business is money. People are in business to make money. It doesn't matter if John Q. Public despises WalMart and bad mouths WalMart and protests WalMart if John Q. Public still helps WalMart make a profit. People do it everyday. I don't understand.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

You can think whatever you want, Bohemian. Apparently you are going to think whatever you'd like anyway, regardless of what people tell you.

Boycotting Nestle to get them to stop killing babies is pretty silly anyway, it can be argued. They have their hands in a million pies and aren't going to be negatively hit financially.

But I'm not sure how you can be so sure why "the majority" of boycotting is done, anyway. I'm not sure what your last sentence has to do with anything (except *your* view of the matter) either.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Bohemian, as has been stated, boycotting can be done for either reason. Please read the definition I posted, which includes both ways of boycotting. Many times those who are boycotting on principle aren't even a large enough group to even hope for change.

[JudyJudyJudy]

But I'm not sure how you can be so sure why "the majority" of boycotting is done, anyway.
Yeah, this was up there with AmyG's assertion that "most" families have athletic equipment.

[Babyhellfire]

They could have. Perhaps they should have. As a business, it's probably a good idea to word things carefully.

But they didn't. .
But again,
How does that make them "anti -homeschool',anymore than they are anti US residents??
They wanted their donation to be made to a school- they worded it to exclude home school kids,Most likely not because they are anti home schooling ,but because they didn't want it to go to a private party.They probably didn't realize that home school groups are and could be large groups,and didn't word it well to include that..but I can't see getting THAT offended over their ignorance,and poorly worded attempt to save themselves a legal battle with their donation going to a single families back yard.


...
and IF subway decides they worded things poorly ,changes it is the "boycott " over,
then wouldn't that really be what people are seeking in the the boycott in the first place?

Or would the boycott continue.

-- I dunno, I am still pretty convinced its not a very just reason to boycott.

[Bohemian]

Oh I don't know what I was thinking. I was just going on the definition of what an actual boycott is defined as and the actual purpose of them. Not on my own "personal" definitions for this thread. People are free to design their own reasons for boycotts but it doesn't change what the purpose of an actual boycott is:

A boycott is normally considered a one-time affair designed to correct an outstanding single wrong. When extended for a long period of time, or as part of an overall program of awareness-raising or reforms to laws or regimes, a boycott is part of moral purchasing, and those economic or political terms are to be preferred.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott

In other words a boycott is done to incur change. To get an organization/person/company to change whatever thing they are doing that is causing the boycott.

Just like I said. But yeah, I'm wrong. ;)

[JudyJudyJudy]

and poorly worded attempt to save themselves a legal battle with their donation going to a single families back yard.
A legal battle? I don't understand.


and IF subway decides they worded things poorly ,changes it is the "boycott " over,
then wouldn't that really be what people are seeking in the the boycott in the first place?

Or would the boycott continue.
There would no longer be a need to boycott over principle.


-- I dunno, I am still pretty convinced its not a very just reason to boycott.
I think not giving a company one's business because it excludes that person's kids in its decision-making is a pretty damned just reason.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

You can think that it's not a "very just" reason to boycott. You can disagree. Nobody is asking for you to agree.

I refuse to buy CAFO produced meat. I refuse to buy from China. I refuse to support the Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts, even though both organizations do some good to some people. Nobody has to agree with my decisions. But it's my money and I choose to spend it on organizations/products that line up with my conscience.

Subway can choose to exclude my kids from a contest. I can choose to take them somewhere else for dinner. I can also choose, through word of mouth, to influence where others go to eat for dinner.

[JudyJudyJudy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott

In other words a boycott is done to incur change. To get an organization/person/company to change whatever thing they are doing that is causing the boycott.

Just like I said. But yeah, I'm wrong. ;)
Since when is Wiki the be-all, end-all for definitions? The term "boycott" (verb form) is a much broader term than that.

I'm certainly not talking about a big organized event (noun form) here.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Oh I don't know what I was thinking. I was just going on the definition of what an actual boycott is defined as and the actual purpose of them. Not on my own "personal" definitions for this thread. People are free to design their own reasons for boycotts but it doesn't change what the purpose of an actual boycott is:

A boycott is normally considered a one-time affair designed to correct an outstanding single wrong. When extended for a long period of time, or as part of an overall program of awareness-raising or reforms to laws or regimes, a boycott is part of moral purchasing, and those economic or political terms are to be preferred.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott

In other words a boycott is done to incur change. To get an organization/person/company to change whatever thing they are doing that is causing the boycott.

Just like I said. But yeah, I'm wrong. ;)

Um. Okay.

From dictionary.com:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
boy·cott Audio Help /ˈbɔɪkɒt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1. to combine in abstaining from, or preventing dealings with, as a means of intimidation or coercion: to boycott a store.
2. [b]to abstain from buying or using: to boycott foreign products.

also:

boycott

noun
1. a group's refusal to have commercial dealings with some organization in protest against its policies

verb
1. refuse to sponsor; refuse to do business with

Why this matters so much to you, I'm not sure.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You can think that it's not a "very just" reason to boycott. You can disagree. Nobody is asking for you to agree.

I refuse to buy CAFO produced meat. I refuse to buy from China. I refuse to support the Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts, even though both organizations do some good to some people. Nobody has to agree with my decisions. But it's my money and I choose to spend it on organizations/products that line up with my conscience.
Exactly. Since when do I have to "justify" my reasons for not supporting a business?

[Bohemian]

Why this matters so much to you, I'm not sure.

Why what matters to me? I'm not following. I'm just enjoying the discussion/debate. Those definitions actually support my pov also and back up the wiki article. Thanks. :)

[Babyhellfire]

Judy-subway clearly wanted their prize to go to a SCHOOL. Not into some ones private resident,so the rules were clarified as such so they wouldn't have to fight a legal battle with a private party claiming they are home schooling and wanting the prize for private use.
They for sure could have worded it to include home school groups,but considering so fer people now about such groups, I'll guess they didn't either,

I can see that as a slip up on their part..but not a hugely offensive one by any stretch

--
OH PLEASE
Contests exclude my kid as uneligible all the damn time,she is under 18, or under 8, she isn't in school yet,the prize (like of a giant jungle gym) would be of no benifit to her - she lives in florida...
I can't see boycotting over that.

I mean, if anything,
boycott subway and go to the mom and pop sammie shop.
i do that when I can,
boycott them because they serve soda and cookies and chips ,while spouting "eat fresh"

but in a pinch I still occasionally go to subway and I can't really see a legitimate reason to boycott them in this,
that they wanted their donation,that they CHOOSE to give to go to a place their company would get the most visibility for it.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Then eat at Subway, BHF. Who has claimed that you shouldn't? As you've pointed out, people choose to shop at different places for reasons that are important to them. I can choose not to support Subway because of this contest. It can be unimportant to you. Whatever.

[Bohemian]

My girls are demanding "family cuddle time" For me that means I must leave this thread for now and go lay on my bed with them and that for a little while, will involve lots of playing,talking,cuddling,tickling and book reading. :)

[bocarioja]

I'll make the statement no one should ever eat at Subway, EVER. Afer my explosive diarreah experience, I am convinced Jered shit himself silly for 12 months to lose 300lbs.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Why what matters to me? I'm not following. I'm just enjoying the discussion/debate. Those definitions actually support my pov also and back up the wiki article. Thanks. :)
How do the definitions I posted from answers.com and Sasha posted from dictionary.com support your point of view? The definitions we posted show that boycotting something can be an individual circumstance. You are arguing otherwise.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'll make the statement no one should ever eat at Subway, EVER. Afer my explosive diarreah experience, I am convinced Jered shit himself silly for 12 months to lose 300lbs.
"lol9"

[Justicedog]

Where did homeschoolers demand inclusion, as Bohemian claims? I don't think anyone is demanding anything. They are simply stating what *their* choices will be because of the choices that Subway has made.


You didn't answer my question. Why boycott?

[Justicedog]

Serial posting...

I'm also not demanding anything from China, but I have chosen not to buy products made there.


Way to go, kick them when they're down. :p

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I've answered throughout this thread, Justice. I am not willing to give my money to an organization that specifically excludes my children from a contest.

Seriously. I think it's pretty clear.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Then eat at Subway, BHF. Who has claimed that you shouldn't? As you've pointed out, people choose to shop at different places for reasons that are important to them. I can choose not to support Subway because of this contest. It can be unimportant to you. Whatever.
Exactly.

[Amy_G_]

I'm just confused all around, Judy. I'm still trying to figure out who is trying to make Subway change their contest rules.

Subway can have whatever rules they want. They happen to be, in this contest, actively excluding my children. I, therefore, will choose to take my food dollars (theoretically) elsewhere, as well as mention to people who might care and who are more likely to buy from Subway than I am. I'm not sure how that translates into demanding that they change their rules, nor do I see a sense of entitlement on my part (except that I'm certainly entitled to decide where my money goes).

Homeschoolers across the us are not only boycotting subway, they are writing subway to get them to change their rules. that's who.

If, as a parent, you cannot afford to buy your child a bat, baseball, football, soccer, jumprope, etc perhaps you shouldn't be homeschooling your child. ;) Honestly, we are talking hit the dollar store and walmart and spending $20 on your kid--with birthdays and holidays your child should have these items.

In some areas/states, a homeschooling co-op or group could be designated as a private school and the kids in that group might just qualify for this contest. But not individual homeschoolers. I cannot see the issue with that, and cannot follow the logic that the rules of this contest means subway is anti-homeschooling.

Again, wouldn't you prefer the $ to benefit a larger group of kids, or a smaller group of kids?

[JudyJudyJudy]

I've answered throughout this thread, Justice. I am not willing to give my money to an organization that specifically excludes my children from a contest.

Seriously. I think it's pretty clear.
Both you and I have said that over and over.

[Babyhellfire]

I am still wondering why is is "anti homeschool" did that ever get answered?

[Babyhellfire]

Do you also boycott a company when their contest excludes,"non residents" or people under 18?

[EvilAmy]

Homeschoolers across the us are not only boycotting subway, they are writing subway to get them to change their rules. that's who.


In all the browsing online I've been doing it seems to a decent split of opinion on this. Even homeschool forums have a split opinion. Personally I won't boycott but that's mainly because I don't eat there anyway. I seem to share Quilty's opinion on this one.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I would say that I'll boycott any organization that doesn't line up with some important issues for me, but then I've said that before. A few times.

[Amy_G_]

Yeah, this was up there with AmyG's assertion that "most" families have athletic equipment.
I will re-iterate.
If a family cannot afford some balls and bats and jumpropes and a soccer ball for their kids, that is sad.
but I don't think a family that cannot afford those items really needs $5000 in athletic equipment either, now do they? They'd probably sell that $5000 in equipment for food or other necessities, which would negate the donation's purpose, to get the most number of kids active.

[QuiltyConscience]

I'll make the statement no one should ever eat at Subway, EVER. Afer my explosive diarreah experience, I am convinced Jered shit himself silly for 12 months to lose 300lbs.


Now that is a persuasive argument.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Homeschoolers across the us are not only boycotting subway, they are writing subway to get them to change their rules. that's who.
And that's their business. Honestly, why do you care? I probably won't participate in writing Subway, but good for those who choose otherwise.


If, as a parent, you cannot afford to buy your child a bat, baseball, football, soccer, jumprope, etc perhaps you shouldn't be homeschooling your child. ;)
I see the winkie thingy, but I suspect you mean it, and I think that's pretty shitty.


Honestly, we are talking hit the dollar store and walmart and spending $20 on your kid--with birthdays and holidays your child should have these items.
Well, if you don't believe in buying items made in China, you can scratch the dollar store and Wal-Mart. Also, as I asked earlier, since this equipment is so cheap as you insist, then why can't parents buy it and donate it to their schools? That shouldn't be a big deal according to your arguments.


In some areas/states, a homeschooling co-op or group could be designated as a private school and the kids in that group might just qualify for this contest.
They specifically said, "No home schools," so, no, no matter how large the group or home school, Subway could/would deny the prizes to homeschoolers.


Again, wouldn't you prefer the $ to benefit a larger group of kids, or a smaller group of kids?
I'd personally prefer my money not go to companies that exclude homeschoolers.

[EvilAmy]

Oh and I'll be perfectly honest. If my DS entered and won that contest, he'd be all for putting it in our yard. To paraphrase his words "Dude winning a whole playground. Dude that would so ROCK!!!" then he'd add that his little brother would love it.

[Amy_G_]

Judy,
I really do have a problem with people homeschooling that are so poor they cannot buy their child a ball or a jumprope. And I really think that would be such a small % of people that it's a red herring to this discussion.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Do you also boycott a company when their contest excludes,"non residents" or people under 18?
No, because that's not something that's important to me. If a company said "No nonChristians" or "No Hispanics" or "No people between 40 and 45," you can bet your ass that I'd boycott.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I will re-iterate.
If a family cannot afford some balls and bats and jumpropes and a soccer ball for their kids, that is sad.
Of course, that's sad. Did I argue otherwise?

but I don't think a family that cannot afford those items really needs $5000 in athletic equipment either, now do they? They'd probably sell that $5000 in equipment for food or other necessities, which would negate the donation's purpose, to get the most number of kids active.
You keep assuming we're talking about individuals. What about groups of homeschoolers? What about those whose communities don't have playgrounds, and the homeschoolers would like to have them in their communities?

[Amy_G_]

what's the difference between "No people between 40 and 45,"
and nobody under 18?

they are aiming their product at a certain demographic. Perhaps their research shows that homeschoolers are too crunchy to enjoy Subway?

[Tweet]

Why does a homeschooler need to be able to buy a jumprope? Poor people shouldn't homeschool?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Judy,
I really do have a problem with people homeschooling that are so poor they cannot buy their child a ball or a jumprope.
Really? Why? What if they have different priorities than you?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

By aiming their product at a certain demographic they risk alienating other demographics.

No shocker there, is it?

[Babyhellfire]

No, because that's not something that's important to me. If a company said "No nonChristians" or "No Hispanics" or "No people between 40 and 45," you can bet your ass that I'd boycott.
You see,thats the crux there.

Companies FREQUENTLY exclude people who would not benefit as much from the prize,
people who would be harder to get the prize to.
There are often contests closed to certain states, to people of a certain target demographic, people within certain legal guidelines(over 18-or 21),
or people would receive the most benefit from the prize(like, recently a mom magazine had a contest for expectant women only).

I DO NOT see it as any sort of discrimination that they excluded home school kids, "because they are anti home school"

they MOST LIKELY excluded home schooled children because they didn't want their prize to go to an individual
- so they were seeking to exclude private parties eligability.

[JudyJudyJudy]

what's the difference between "No people between 40 and 45,"
and nobody under 18?
There are plenty of things that are illegal to give to children under the age of 18 since children can't legally enter into contracts.

erhaps their research shows that homeschoolers are too crunchy to enjoy Subway?
Well, that's their business again, but homeschoolers who know that is bullshit will show otherwise by not giving them their business. The funny thing is that, at least in my area, most homeschoolers are far from crunchy, so I seriously doubt your argument is even close to correct.

[JudyJudyJudy]

There are often contests closed to certain states, to people of a certain target demographic, people within certain legal guidelines(over 18-or 21),
Ding, ding, ding. LEGAL guidelines.

[Amy_G_]

Really? Why? What if they have different priorities than you?

Poor people have a tendency to eat high carb foods and tend toward obesity. Getting those kids active is highly important.

If we are going to talk about generalities. Excluding any sports or PE in a homeschool (or public school) environment is leaving out an important part of our children's education. like leaving out reading or writing or art's education.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I find it ironic that some are arguing that Subway can exclude kids for any old reason they want to (nobody has argued that point) yet people who wish to take their money elsewhere have been told that their reasons aren't good enough.

:chuckle:

[Amy_G_]

Being personally upset about it is one thing.
But waging war and creating havoc on the internet about subway being anti-homeschooling is over the top.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

We eat a lot of high carb foods here. We're pretty Nourishing Traditions in our diet.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Hyperbole much, Amy?

[Babyhellfire]

You can take your money else were.I never said it wasn't a good enough reason for you to do whatever you want.I Just don't see the reason for it-therefore I wouldn't boycott.


I also don't see how they are being "anti home school" any more than they are being "anti NON U.S resident"

Ya know, subway excluded my kid because she isn't in school at all,
My kid got excluded from a contest for being to old ,
and too young,
I got excluded from a contest recently because I am not pregnant,and wouldn't benefit from an electric breast pump... it all seems the same to me and ,far from a reason to boycott.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Every single homeschooler I know would benefit from a basket of books from Scholastic. Many would benefit from a $100 Subway card.

You don't need to find it a reason to boycott. Some do.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Poor people have a tendency to eat high carb foods and tend toward obesity. Getting those kids active is highly important.

If we are going to talk about generalities. Excluding any sports or PE in a homeschool (or public school) environment is leaving out an important part of our children's education. like leaving out reading or writing or art's education.

Perhaps a group of poor homeschooling people wanted this equipment so that they could all use it together. Having said that, do you truly think people can't get any exercise if they don't own a ball or jumprope?

[BeanBabies]

Being personally upset about it is one thing.
But waging war and creating havoc on the internet about subway being anti-homeschooling is over the top.


Creating havoc on the internet?

Where would that be?

[Amy_G_]

I've seen contests that excluded those over age 12, under age 16, over age 40 and all sorts of things. open only to women, does that means it's anti-men?

[Amy_G_]

there are homeschool message boards all over the place, and homeschoolers on mainstream message boards up in arms over this horrendous subway policy.

[RaisingThemLeft]

I find it ironic that some are arguing that Subway can exclude kids for any old reason they want to (nobody has argued that point) yet people who wish to take their money elsewhere have been told that their reasons aren't good enough.

:chuckle:

I don't think anyone has said that. I think people are telling you why they don't think those reasons are good enough for THEM to boycott Subway or consider them an anti homeschooling business. I don't care where other people take their money. If you don't like the contest of course you are free to not eat there. I have no problem with the contest, with them wanting to aim something particularly at schools. There are countless places that give teacher discounts, in some cases they are quite a substantial discount, to homeschoolers and not public school parents, even though I still need to buy my child educational products or take them to places like museums for extra curricular enrichment. I don't boycott the businesses that do that, so I won't boycott subway for doing the same thing in reverse.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Being personally upset about it is one thing.
But waging war and creating havoc on the internet about subway being anti-homeschooling is over the top.

I think your reaction to this post is over the top. No one is waging war. This barely qualifies as a heated discussion, IMO.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

RTL, I'm referring to the person saying that it wasn't a "just" reason.

[pixiedust]

Why should you boycott Subway?

Because they are discriminating against a small minority and justifying this exclusion by perpetuating stereotypes. (Subway wants to reach a large number of kids, and they can't do that through a homeschool family.) This contest specifically denies some children a chance to compete and add to their academic resume. When is it okay to exclude children based solely on stereotypes? Should they change their policy? Well I think so, but you might not see it that way, until its your child.

[gobucks1013]

I don't think anyone has said that. I think people are telling you why they don't think those reasons are good enough for THEM to boycott Subway or consider them an anti homeschooling business. I don't care where other people take their money. If you don't like the contest of course you are free to not eat there. I have no problem with the contest, with them wanting to aim something particularly at schools. There are countless places that give teacher discounts, in some cases they are quite a substantial discount, to homeschoolers and not public school parents, even though I still need to buy my child educational products or take them to places like museums for extra curricular enrichment. I don't boycott the businesses that do that, so I won't boycott subway for doing the same thing in reverse.

Well said RTL. ITA. My kids are too young to be in school and we don't eat at Subway so it's all irrelavent to me at this stage in the game...

[JudyJudyJudy]

RTL, I'm referring to the person saying that it wasn't a "just" reason.
Actually, several people stated that. They weren't simply talking about not "just" for them; they were saying that it wasn't a just reason for us to boycott.

[Tweet]

But if they are wanting to give playground equipment to a SCHOOL, where more children will utilize it, that's their business. Why would they give to a homeschooled family when it would only go to one family? That makes no sense to me.

I see no reason why homeschooled children should not compete for the other prizes? That is what I think is unfair.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

If homeschoolers are waging war and wreaking havoc throughout the internets, perhaps Subway *should* rethink its contest rules. What a powerful group!

And to think, they couldn't get Huckabee *or* Paul on the ballot.

[Pallas]

I've seen contests that excluded those over age 12, under age 16, over age 40 and all sorts of things. open only to women, does that means it's anti-men?

I think that, if the prizes were something that many men would like to win, men would be upset at being excluded and might choose to write letters/emails and spend their extra money elsewhere. I would certainly support them in their boycott.

Generally, (not always), parameters are set based either on the population likely to be interested or the population that the prize-giver can afford to serve. Alaska and Hawaii are often excluded because of the expensive shipping. Illegal immigrants are often excluded because they're not supposed to be here to enter the contest in the first place. (The merits, or lack thereof, of immigrant restrictions is a whole other debate, though.)

If I were Alaskan or Hawaiian and there was a prize I felt I could win and wanted to win, I might be upset enough at being excluded to write letters or spend my dollars elsewhere. Might not do me any good, though.


I should not be permitted to post on a board that provides font colors.

Namaste,

Pallas

[gobucks1013]

Why should you boycott Subway?

Because they are discriminating against a small minority and justifying this exclusion by perpetuating stereotypes. (Subway wants to reach a large number of kids, and they can't do that through a homeschool family.) This contest specifically denies some children a chance to compete and add to their academic resume. When is it okay to exclude children based solely on stereotypes? Should they change their policy? Well I think so, but you might not see it that way, until its your child.

No. I can honestly say *I* will not give 2 hoots if Subway excludes my children from some contest for whatever reason. Just not a battle worth fighting IMO.

That's just me though. Others are certainly free to respond how they choose.

[JudyJudyJudy]

But if they are wanting to give playground equipment to a SCHOOL, where more children will utilize it, that's their business.
As Sasha and I have said over and over again in this thread, of course, it's their business; likewise, it's our business to choose to which companies we want to give our business.


Why would they give to a homeschooled family when it would only go to one family? That makes no sense to me.
It could very well go to a homeschooling group or a community.

[gobucks1013]

Actually, several people stated that. They weren't simply talking about not "just" for them; they were saying that it wasn't a just reason for us to boycott.

Nobody's business but your own...

[Pallas]

Huh. So boycotting is just for the principle of it and NOT about the company changing their practice or ways. So when people boycott Nestle it's not because they want Nestle to stop killing babies in third world countries but more about them getting their point across that they think it's wrong and simply won't get their business.
.

I don't boycott Nestle because I think they'll miss my piddly little expenditures and realize the error of their ways. Nor do I think that together all my dirtyhippy friends will ping on that behemoth corporation radar. I boycott them because there's plenty of places to spend my money, so why spend it on people who don't have my interests in mind?

[RaisingThemLeft]

RTL, I'm referring to the person saying that it wasn't a "just" reason.

Gotcha. I had not read the entire thread when I said that I'd just skimmed the posts and the jist of what people seemed to be saying was that they personally had no problem with it and wouldn't be boycotting. I later did see a few that seemed to be saying that it wasn't a good reason for you and Judy to be boycotting. I think that anyone should take their business to the places that make them feel best about spending their money there. That's likely to be different for all of us. I should really be "boycotting" all restaurants right now and focusing on eating at home and not going out so damn much!

[EvilAmy]

LIke I said I've been browsing forums and I've seen basically a divide.
If people want to boycott, they should boycott. Who is anybody to tell you otherwise (oh yeah the whole you're entitled to/I'm entitled to.. routine).
And with schools basically getting rid of recess in order to gain more class time in order to up scores (I've seen this trend progress rather quickly since DS was in those grades now DD). Why do they need a playground? Homeschoolers are more likely to utilize it.


FWIW, there's sarcasm laced through out.

[bocarioja]

I think that, if the prizes were something that many men would like to win, men would be upset at being excluded and might choose to write letters/emails and spend their extra money elsewhere. I would certainly support them in their boycott.

Generally, (not always), parameters are set based either on the population likely to be interested or the population that the prize-giver can afford to serve. Alaska and Hawaii are often excluded because of the expensive shipping. Illegal immigrants are often excluded because they're not supposed to be here to enter the contest in the first place. (The merits, or lack thereof, of immigrant restrictions is a whole other debate, though.)

If I were Alaskan or Hawaiian and there was a prize I felt I could win and wanted to win, I might be upset enough at being excluded to write letters or spend my dollars elsewhere. Might not do me any good, though.


I should not be permitted to post on a board that provides font colors.

Namaste,

Pallas

ITA...I'm just adding to your thoughts with this (yes, I posted it earlier but Im annoying that way...)

It's just plain sad crappy to exclude young children from trying to win playground equipment. I don't give a shit about who raido/TV contests exclude in trying to win concert tickets.... But children? Part of me thinks its mean and tactless on the company's part. Especially when children can just as easily be the customers.

[Pallas]

Again, wouldn't you prefer the $ to benefit a larger group of kids, or a smaller group of kids?

Many people have pointed out that, with a minimum of thought, the contest could have been worded to benefit large numbers of children without excluding homeschoolers. The winner could donate to the school of his/her choice.

Nowhere has it been addressed that the secondary and tertiary prizes would have been appropriate for nearly anyone with a pulse.

Honestly, I'm not upset about it at all. I just hate bad arguments.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Why should you boycott Subway?

Because they are discriminating against a small minority and justifying this exclusion by perpetuating stereotypes. (Subway wants to reach a large number of kids, and they can't do that through a homeschool family.) This contest specifically denies some children a chance to compete and add to their academic resume. When is it okay to exclude children based solely on stereotypes? Should they change their policy? Well I think so, but you might not see it that way, until its your child.

What do you think of all the many, many businesses who offer a discount only to homeschooling families? That discount may mean the difference between a public schoolers family being able to afford the books or educational materials or museum admission price. So many places are already denying my child something that homeschoolers are getting and yet I don't boycott them.

[JudyJudyJudy]

And with schools basically getting rid of recess in order to gain more class time in order to up scores (I've seen this trend progress rather quickly since DS was in those grades now DD). Why do they need a playground? Homeschoolers are more likely to utilize it.


FWIW, there's sarcasm laced through out.
My poor sixth graders this past year (their last day was Friday) went to school from 8:10 to 3:30 with no break whatsoever other than lunch. As I stated before, I truly can't figure out what they'd do with playground equipment.

[JudyJudyJudy]

What do you think of all the many, many businesses who offer a discount only to homeschooling families? That discount may mean the difference between a public schoolers family being able to afford the books or educational materials or museum admission price. So many places are already denying my child something that homeschoolers are getting and yet I don't boycott them.
I wish museums here offered discounts to homeschoolers, but they don't. The only exception is if you are with a large group, but the same discount applies to schools. As for the other materials, homeschoolers spend a ton more on school supplies than public schoolers do, so B&N and other companies are trying to get their business. If you choose to boycott because of that, I won't tell you that it's not a just reason; that's your choice.

[Tweet]

Judy, I wholeheartedly support anyone's right to boycott any place or product. I just wanted to make it known that wasn't my issue.

[gobucks1013]

Many people have pointed out that, with a minimum of thought, the contest could have been worded to benefit large numbers of children without excluding homeschoolers. The winner could donate to the school of his/her choice.

Honestly, what it says to me is that the powers-at-be in Subway's marketing division are probably ignorant when it comes to homeschooling. They probably have no idea there are homeschooling groups out there or that homeschoolers sometimes have mutually beneficial relationships with local public schools. Ignorance is no excuse, but I'll wager a guess their intent was not to exclude homeshoolers out of malice.

Perhaps they need someone to open their eyes to homeschooling and the lifestyles of homeschoolers so that they'll at least be able to develop educated inclusion/exclusion criteria for their contests.

[RaisingThemLeft]

I'm not going to boycott, I was just curious as to how others felt about it. If they thought it was "fair" for homeschoolers to get the discount and not public schoolers. I don't think that I spend any less on books or school supplies than many of the homeschoolers that I know. Where I live, homeschooling parents qualify for discounts anywhere that a classroom teacher qualifies for one. Homeschools are considered private schools and you can get a card to show to businesses for your discount.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I don't think that I spend any less on books or school supplies than many of the homeschoolers that I know.
Do you have to buy your own books from which to teach? Those are quite expensive.

[Pallas]

What do you think of all the many, many businesses who offer a discount only to homeschooling families? That discount may mean the difference between a public schoolers family being able to afford the books or educational materials or museum admission price. So many places are already denying my child something that homeschoolers are getting and yet I don't boycott them.


You didn't ask me, but I would be equally disturbed by such a policy.

However, I live in a capital city with three thriving hs communities, and I know of NO discount exclusive to homeschoolers. We do get the educational discounts that teachers get, but I don't think that's what you meant.

[Pallas]

I'm not going to boycott, I was just curious as to how others felt about it. If they thought it was "fair" for homeschoolers to get the discount and not public schoolers. I don't think that I spend any less on books or school supplies than many of the homeschoolers that I know. Where I live, homeschooling parents qualify for discounts anywhere that a classroom teacher qualifies for one. Homeschools are considered private schools and you can get a card to show to businesses for your discount.


Ah. Color me mistaken, then.

I think that school supplies* should be discounted for anyone, especially in light of the need for supplemental education at home even if your child is conventionally schooled.

I would absolutely support a campaign to make that a reality.

Since I don't homeschool under an "umbrella" private school, I don't often get those discounts anyway.

*by "school supplies" I don't mean notebooks or pencils. Homeschoolers don't generally get those discounted anyway. I was referring to curriculum, enrichment, or supplementary materials that are often available in bookstores as well as school supply stores. I think Scholastic sales should be open to anyone, though that might not be doing them a kindness. I might as well be entering an opium den. My mind gets fuzzy and all my money disappears!

[BeachMama]

We totally use playgrounds at schools during non-school hours. They don't attempt to lock them up and don't post signs or anything stating otherwise.

[bocarioja]

I wish museums here offered discounts to homeschoolers, but they don't. The only exception is if you are with a large group, but the same discount applies to schools.

Being part of a museum that plans field trips for kids, my money is all made with public schools. I have to make $XXXXX.xx dollars a year to keep my job. We're a non-profit, but that doesn't mean there isn't expense. I Know that wasn't your point... But each school district that attends my trips pays $5.00 per kid. Just like your decision to boycott, I have to make decisions when to open and pay staff, and when to say no.

There are quite a few homeschool groups that want a personal tour at no cost. It costs me minimum $160.00 to open my two living history villages, and pay staff and train volunteers the perform the lessons that reinforce state curriculum standards for one day... I am honest with these people about my expenses and requirements for personal tours. You can tour and learn with my Native American Village, my Pioneer Village, and my county history museum all by yourselves if you're willing to pay. Sometimes, they pay. Most times, I get the attitude that I'm supossed to be a charity. I wish I could do it, but I'd be fired so fast my head would spin.

[Amy_G_]

My poor sixth graders this past year (their last day was Friday) went to school from 8:10 to 3:30 with no break whatsoever other than lunch. As I stated before, I truly can't figure out what they'd do with playground equipment.
The kids at my school get recess in the morning if they get to school 15 minutes early. School starts at 7:45am, and the playground is open for recess at 7:30.
they get 30 minutes for lunch, 15 minutes inside eating, and 15 minutes outside. And then they get PE every 3 days for 40 minutes. They'd still use the hell out of athletic equipment. The playground equipment on the k-5 playground is too small for most of the older kids.

I was amazed to watch the 6th graders in their 15 minutes at lunch play, with only like 3-4 kids sitting down watching and talking. If they have a ball, they play--kickball, football, tether ball, basketball. The balls don't last that long with hundreds of kids playing with them each day--so they'll play their hearts out, and then the ball will break and they have to play chase or stand around until someone provides a ball a week or two later--whether it's a teacher, the PTA, or another kid.

At PE, the school has a baseball diamond--but there aren't enough balls, gloves and bats to play. and they have to be "special" equipment, so the kids can't hurt each other with a hardball or a real bat. The PE teacher is always on the lookout for balls and games to play and supplies. They spend all their budget and don't have enough things to last the year. the PTA gives some things, and parents bring in stuff--but some things just don't last long with 1000 kids using them every week.

yes, subway could have carefully worded the contest that homeschool groups that have a common playground area and meet certain non-profit guidelines could have their students try for the prizes. or they could have made the non-homeschool req only for the grand prize. but they didn't. I don't see it as anti-homeschool. maybe it was their uneducated decision, or maybe they felt that with the varying homeschool rules state by state it was too big of an issue to be dealt with in full in contest rules. some states don't even recognize the right to homeschool, so how can subway accomodate that?

[pixiedust]

What do you think of all the many, many businesses who offer a discount only to homeschooling families? That discount may mean the difference between a public schoolers family being able to afford the books or educational materials or museum admission price. So many places are already denying my child something that homeschoolers are getting and yet I don't boycott them.

Subway is excluding homeschoolers in a contest that schools like Johns Hopkins look at in their early recruitment program.

Businesses who offer discounts require little if any actual proof of homeschooling. So its easy enough to get a discount. Just because you public school doesn't mean you don't spend hours teaching your children at home as well, and are more than justified to a discount. There are loopholes in a discount. However, a museum field trip will probably not have the same impact as an award winning story. Not to mention ps kids get to go to museums free or at a discounted rate, I paid $45/ ticket to see A Nutcracker that all the ps students paid $5 to get into.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Do you have to buy your own books from which to teach? Those are quite expensive.

I know a lot of homeschoolers that don't buy those books. Many are just buying fun reading material for their kids at a discount. Your saying that homeschoolers should get a discount because they need to buy more sounds awfully similar to people saying that a school can use $5000 worth of equipment more than a homeschooling family or even a small homeschooling group, yet you didn't like that argument.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I know a lot of homeschoolers that don't buy those books. Many are just buying fun reading material for their kids at a discount. Your saying that homeschoolers should get a discount because they need to buy more sounds awfully similar to people saying that a school can use $5000 worth of equipment more than a homeschooling family or even a small homeschooling group, yet you didn't like that argument.
Nope, I never did say that homeschoolers should get anything. I specifically stated that companies like B&N are giving the discounts to compete for homeschoolers' business because they know that most spend a lot of money, and B&N is wanting that money. I also went on to say that if this bothers you, then you are free to boycott just as some homeschoolers are boycotting Subway.

Having said that, I do see where B&N benefits by giving discounts to homeschoolers. I'm still trying to figure out how Subway benefits from excluding homeschoolers from their contest.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Subway is excluding homeschoolers in a contest that schools like Johns Hopkins look at in their early recruitment program.

Businesses who offer discounts require little if any actual proof of homeschooling. So its easy enough to get a discount. Just because you public school doesn't mean you don't spend hours teaching your children at home as well, and are more than justified to a discount. There are loopholes in a discount. However, a museum field trip will probably not have the same impact as an award winning story. Not to mention ps kids get to go to museums free or at a discounted rate, I paid $45/ ticket to see A Nutcracker that all the ps students paid $5 to get into.

I don't buy the theory that a kid needs this contest to get into a program. There are plenty of writing contests around that are more prestigious than a subway contest, I'm sure. As for museum field trip, any group can get the discount, not just a school. It's just a group rate and all you have to do is put together a group. Usually 10 or 14 is enough to qualify for a group rate. My playgroup does that all the time. We are paying $20 for ds to go on a field trip to a nature preserve and hike and learn some things that go along with his science curriculum. Field trips are not all that cheap here.

As far as performances go, I strongly support deeply discounted student rates, for all students, including homeschoolers. My friend who homeschools is constantly sending me links for stuff where you can get into performances really, really cheap or even free on certain off times, you just have to look. I do live near a big city so that helps. My dad was also saying that in Europe kids can get in free or practically free to all the museums because they want them to be part of the culture. I think that's great.

It is true that there are workarounds for getting those discounts offered to homeschoolers but somehow I don't feel right doing that, applying for a card that says I am a private school when I really don't feel like I am one.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I'm not sure if the distinction matters, but the discount that homeschoolers get at B&N and Borders (the only two that *I* am familiar with so the only two I'm referring to) is actually an educator's card. The homeschooler qualifies as an educator.

I'm certain that plenty of public and private schooling parents can make a case that they are educators as well, but my point is that homeschoolers don't get their own discount at those two bookstores. They happen to qualify for an educator discount since those stores consider them to be teachers.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Nope, I never did say that homeschoolers should get anything. I specifically stated that companies like B&N are giving the discounts to compete for homeschoolers' business because they know that most spend a lot of money, and B&N is wanting that money. I also went on to say that if this bothers you, then you are free to boycott just as some homeschoolers are boycotting Subway.

Having said that, I do see where B&N benefits by giving discounts to homeschoolers. I'm still trying to figure out how Subway benefits from excluding homeschoolers from their contest.

You asked if I had to buy my own books from which to teach. I took that to mean you thought homeschoolers were entitled to the discount because they had to buy these books. Maybe that wasn't what you meant.

[Amy_G_]

the benefit to subway is that the schools are non-profits and they can count off that donation on their taxes. Since homeschool rules vary by state, it will be a huge PITA for subway to determine which homeschool groups are non-profits and eligible for the donation.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You asked if I had to buy my own books from which to teach. I took that to mean you thought homeschoolers were entitled to the discount because they had to buy these books. Maybe that wasn't what you meant.
No, I was surprised when you said that you spend as much as homeschoolers. I don't personally know any nonhomeschoolers who spend as much as I do, so I was surprised to see you say that. In fact, many public schoolers that I know think the schools are supposed to provide absolutely everything.

[JudyJudyJudy]

the benefit to subway is that the schools are non-profits and they can count off that donation on their taxes. Since homeschool rules vary by state, it will be a huge PITA for subway to determine which homeschool groups are non-profits and eligible for the donation.
They could simply state "nonprofit." No biggie.

[bocarioja]

the benefit to subway is that the schools are non-profits and they can count off that donation on their taxes. Since homeschool rules vary by state, it will be a huge PITA for subway to determine which homeschool groups are non-profits and eligible for the donation.

I already presented this as a reason for Subway to potentially exculde homeschool groups, but many homeschool groups are designated as non-profits. Subway would be eligable for the same tax dedictions as giving the prize to a public school should the child be affiliated with one of these groups.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Some private schools aren't considered 'non-profits'.

[JudyJudyJudy]

And, again, as was stated earlier, some homeschooling groups are larger than some private schools (and even some public schools).

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Perhaps they need someone to open their eyes to homeschooling and the lifestyles of homeschoolers so that they'll at least be able to develop educated inclusion/exclusion criteria for their contests.

Perhaps. However, we're talking about a business. It might behoove it not to alienate a section of its customer base.

Again, it's just bad business sense. It's not the customer's job to educate a company. Some customers may and that's awesome, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that excluding a segment of the population might cause them to take their money elsewhere.

[RaisingThemLeft]

No, I was surprised when you said that you spend as much as homeschoolers. I don't personally know any nonhomeschoolers who spend as much as I do, so I was surprised to see you say that. In fact, many public schoolers that I know think the schools are supposed to provide absolutely everything.

Oh, not here. We get a huge list and another list of supplies that are optional but the teachers would like. I buy off that list too. Plus I buy supplemental educational material for my kids. Maybe I'm not the norm, but I know I'm not alone where I live.

[Pallas]

Being part of a museum that plans field trips for kids, my money is all made with public schools. I have to make $XXXXX.xx dollars a year to keep my job. We're a non-profit, but that doesn't mean there isn't expense. I Know that wasn't your point... But each school district that attends my trips pays $5.00 per kid. Just like your decision to boycott, I have to make decisions when to open and pay staff, and when to say no.

There are quite a few homeschool groups that want a personal tour at no cost. It costs me minimum $160.00 to open my two living history villages, and pay staff and train volunteers the perform the lessons that reinforce state curriculum standards for one day... I am honest with these people about my expenses and requirements for personal tours. You can tour and learn with my Native American Village, my Pioneer Village, and my county history museum all by yourselves if you're willing to pay. Sometimes, they pay. Most times, I get the attitude that I'm supossed to be a charity. I wish I could do it, but I'd be fired so fast my head would spin.

What a sense of entitlement! I cannot imagine expecting a free tour when the schools are paying.

I'm curious, what is their (the entitled ones') response when you suggest that they pay the same rate the schools do? How can they possibly justify their refusal?

"We require $X per child and a minimum of Y children." It's a rule on almost every field trip we organize, whether it's a private session with an educator at the state park or an IMAX movie at the (for-profit) planetarium. I believe the schools operate under the same rules.

I am just ... amazed.

[bocarioja]

It is my impression that some people think we operate from tax money. We don't.

We'd love to, (I'd like to) so we focus on being polite and accomodating to all who want to visit us for whateer reason.

Everytime a child steps foot on my property, I owe $40.00 to the insurance man. Period. I wish that were different. I could do so much more to enrich children's lives with $40 a day. Sorry, but that money has to come from somewhere. My paycheck barely covers childcare.

[JudyJudyJudy]

boca, I don't know where you are, but I think some museums do partially operate with tax money. I know that in some areas, they have suggested "donations." (But my homeschool group has never expected anything for free.)

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Hell, I'm always tickled when we get to do "field trip" type stuff. A discounted price is an awesome bonus on top of it.

Boca, I know that Conner Prairie has an enormous amount of overhead. I'll bet it's a lot of the same red tape that you have to deal with, unfortunately. Even being mainly staffed by volunteers, they always need funds.

[bocarioja]

boca, I don't know where you are, but I think some museums do partially operate with tax money. I know that in some areas, they have suggested "donations." (But my homeschool group has never expected anything for free.)

Most libraries operate with tax money, but local museums (especially in Ohio)and the thousands other museums that I have visitied that are not part of the federal park service or their affiliates-- operate from the fruits of their own labor. This means daily fund raisers, admission fees, grant applications... it is quite an emitionally draining process. I make next to nothing, literally, enpough to pay for childcare and a tank of gas a week, but I would do my job even if I had to pay the museum.

I hate explaining why it costs money to attend my programs. It is the most embarassing drawback to my job. I put that on my grant apps in hopes that someone with deep $$$ will read it and give a million dollars. Kids should not have to pay $5 to learn how Native Americans left a small carbon footprint and yet thrived for thousands of years. This is education so valuable... but, as long as someone is willing to sue me if the kid gets stung by a bee....

[JudyJudyJudy]

boca, it shouldn't have to be embarrassing. Just tell them the truth. They should be the ones who are embarrassed for wanting something for nothing.

[Justicedog]

What do you think of all the many, many businesses who offer a discount only to homeschooling families? That discount may mean the difference between a public schoolers family being able to afford the books or educational materials or museum admission price. So many places are already denying my child something that homeschoolers are getting and yet I don't boycott them.


I think a lot of this boils down to some people are easily offended and others aren't.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Yup, Justice, that's it. :rolleyes: How dismissive. I don't know about Judy, but I'm not offended (of course, neither have I waged war or have the internet in an uproar, so I guess this thread is full of people who want to...embellish). I will simply take my money elsewhere if Subway isn't interested in my own little crunchy demographic.

That's how business works. I'm surprised that it's such a foreign concept to some of you.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Exactly, Sasha.

[JudyJudyJudy]

While I'm sure that many will claim otherwise since it hasn't really happened, I'd bet my next paycheck that if a company offered a contest only to students who were homeschooled or in private schools, including parochial, but excluded public school students, there'd be plenty of bitching and taking business elsewhere.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Doubtful. I'm not much of a boycotter. I don't even boycott the evil Nestle.

[Pallas]

I think a lot of this boils down to some people are easily offended and others aren't.


I am only offended by poorly structured arguments and unwillingness to examine inconsistencies.

Not that you, JD, have committed these grievous errors. Just clarifying that the source of my annoyance is NOT Subway's contest policy. Can't speak for the other ranty, militant, boycott-happy homeschoolers though. ;)

[Sunnie]

While I'm sure that many will claim otherwise since it hasn't really happened, I'd bet my next paycheck that if a company offered a contest only to students who were homeschooled or in private schools, including parochial, but excluded public school students, there'd be plenty of bitching and taking business elsewhere.


Not on my part. That's their prerogative.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Here is a writing contest open ONLY to homeschooled students. http://www.sylvandellpublishing.com/HomeschoolingComp.htm

[RaisingThemLeft]

I just read that many homeschoolers are also boycotting Scholastic Books which I find ironic because they are a company that offers a discount to homeschoolers but not public schoolers and lets homeschoolers into their warehouses to buy books at a deep discount. But, their perogative.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Here is a writing contest open ONLY to homeschooled students. http://www.sylvandellpublishing.com/HomeschoolingComp.htm
Since I've never heard of the company and since I doubt most public schoolers are currently giving business to them, I guess it wouldn't do much good to boycott. "lol9"

[JudyJudyJudy]

I just read that many homeschoolers are also boycotting Scholastic Books which I find ironic because they are a company that offers a discount to homeschoolers but not public schoolers and lets homeschoolers into their warehouses to buy books at a deep discount. But, their perogative.
Well, I'm not among homeschoolers who are boycotting Scholastic (though I have some other issues with them unrelated to homeschooling). Regardless, that's their right to do so if they feel it's important.

[Amy_G_]

Gasp, there is a contest out there that my precious children cannot participate in Just because they go to public school. the horror! ;)
I think I'd have the same reaction even if it were Target, or cold Stone creamery or Mcdonalds. a business has a right to make their own rules for a contest, and while I can bitch and moan about it, life is too short to do so (+boycott) over such a trivialty.

[Pallas]

Here is a writing contest open ONLY to homeschooled students. http://www.sylvandellpublishing.com/HomeschoolingComp.htm


No, sir. I don't like it.

Wrote 'em an email about it, in fact. Their stated reason is that opening it to other students would create an unmanageable flood of submissions. Ok. Still don't like it.

See? Consistency!

:D

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Gasp, there is a contest out there that my precious children cannot participate in Just because they go to public school. the horror! ;)
I think I'd have the same reaction even if it were Target, or cold Stone creamery or Mcdonalds. a business has a right to make their own rules for a contest, and while I can bitch and moan about it, life is too short to do so (+boycott) over such a trivialty.


Yet you find value in bitching and moaning about the workings of bf.com.

Goes to show that people have different value systems and things that are worth--to them--their time and money.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Gasp, there is a contest out there that my precious children cannot participate in Just because they go to public school. the horror! ;)
I think I'd have the same reaction even if it were Target, or cold Stone creamery or Mcdonalds. a business has a right to make their own rules for a contest, and while I can bitch and moan about it, life is too short to do so (+boycott) over such a trivialty.
It really isn't that difficult to boycott Subway. My closest grocery store perhaps, but not Subway.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Yet you find value in bitching and moaning about the workings of bf.com.
"lol9"


Goes to show that people have different value systems and things that are worth--to them--their time and money.
Absolutely. Many, like AmyG, got worked up over the map. Others of us didn't.

[Bohemian]

I used to eat at Subway all the time but I haven't had it in years (maybe 6-7?) That was because Bellacinos makes the best grinders ever and blows Subway away. Now that I'm back in the West, I'll have to settle for Subway again. This thread is making me hungry for a Spicy Italian w/bacon. YUM!

[Amy_G_]

I think getting worked up over a map giving out my home location to thousands of strangers is a much bigger issue than homeschoolers being unable to enter a subway contest.

Now should we public school people's be upset about the scholarships that are only open to homeschooled children?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Be upset about what you want to, Amy. That's kind of the point. Again.

[Bohemian]

I think getting worked up over a map giving out my home location to thousands of strangers is a much bigger issue than homeschoolers being unable to enter a subway contest.




Exactly.

Be upset about what you want to, Amy. That's kind of the point. Again.

Who is telling you not to be upset about anything or that you're feelings aren't justified. Some of just think it's a dumb reason to boycott/be upset and are stating so. :shrug: You are surely entitled to feel however you choose as we all are. I don't see anyone saying anything different.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think getting worked up over a map giving out my home location to thousands of strangers is a much bigger issue than homeschoolers being unable to enter a subway contest.
You're free to think that; I'm free to think otherwise. That's what makes life so grand.


Now should we public school people's be upset about the scholarships that are only open to homeschooled children?
I can't decide for you what you should do; that's entirely up to you. Some people get upset over minority scholarships. Some minorities get upset because some schools don't offer minority scholarships. To each his own. It's entirely up to each individual to decide what upsets him/her.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I think what's interesting is that what AmyG thinks is important is more important than what others find important. I see very little, "You can choose to spend your money wherever you want to for whatever reason," and more bitchy little digging remarks. :shrug: Oh well.

Anyway, here is a (public) response from Scholastic:

Regarding your concerns about the Subway contest that excludes home schools
from contest eligibility, Scholastic and Subway apologize to all individuals
who have taken offense at this. Our intention was never to make independent
schooled children feel discriminated against or excluded from this specific
promotion.

Throughout the course of the year Scholastic runs a number of contests and
sweepstakes that are open to all teachers and students. The eligibility of
this contest in particular was solely put in place to award a large group of
children with the grand prize of $5,000 worth of athletic equipment. We do
however understand how home-schooled children could benefit from this type
of prizing and will make sure eligibility is open to everyone in future
promotions.

We appreciate your feedback and will make sure a similar situation does not
happen in the future.

[Amy_G_]

see they wanted to give the athletic equip to a large group of kids and didn't think a home school group would be large enough. and now they understand there are large homeschool groups that could use that quantity of athletic equipment.

so scholastic and subway are NOT anti-homeschool as the OP suggested.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I haven't seen a response from Subway, Amy. Have you? Nor have I seen the point addressed (well, by anyone here as well) that there are other prizes (including a book just for entering the contest) that *would* benefit homeschoolers.

[Tweet]

I'm glad Scholastic addressed it.I do wonder if Subway will.

[Crabbie]

I have read the whole thread, can I have my cookie now? :D

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Another snippet from Scholastic to another parent (I didn't c&p the part that was the same as what I posted earlier):

To show our gratitude for bringing this matter to our attention,
please send us the ages of your children and your address and we
would be happy to send you a complimentary book to share with them.
We truly appreciate your feedback and will make sure a similar
situation does not happen again.

That seems quite fair, as children entering the Subway contest (with a receipt from a Subway store) received a book.

[CatSoup]

I have read the whole thread, can I have my cookie now? :D

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn119/zackwm1990/cookiecat.jpg

[JudyJudyJudy]

Another snippet from Scholastic to another parent (I didn't c&p the part that was the same as what I posted earlier):


That seems quite fair, as children entering the Subway contest (with a receipt from a Subway store) received a book.
Why the receipt from Subway, though? I thought no purchase was necessary to enter the contest.

[RaisingThemLeft]

I haven't seen a response from Subway, Amy. Have you? Nor have I seen the point addressed (well, by anyone here as well) that there are other prizes (including a book just for entering the contest) that *would* benefit homeschoolers.


It seems like they just didn't want to deal with entries that were ineligible for the grand prize, and homeschoolers were ineligible for the grand prize.

[Justicedog]

While I'm sure that many will claim otherwise since it hasn't really happened, I'd bet my next paycheck that if a company offered a contest only to students who were homeschooled or in private schools, including parochial, but excluded public school students, there'd be plenty of bitching and taking business elsewhere.


Easily offeded people are in each group so I'm sure you're right.

[Justicedog]

Another snippet from Scholastic to another parent (I didn't c&p the part that was the same as what I posted earlier):


That seems quite fair, as children entering the Subway contest (with a receipt from a Subway store) received a book.


See, and I'd have to go buy a sub for my kid to get the "free" book, how is that fair? It's only fair to homeschooled kids.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Feel free to boycott, Justice.

[Justicedog]

Feel free to boycott, Justice.


I can't, books are my crack.

Oh, and, btw, I was joking, it just doesn't bother me.

[ctmom1]

Poor Subway -- it just wants to donate some equipment to a school. I'll bet from now on they keep their profits to themselves.

[TuetonicWillow]

Poor Subway -- it just wants to donate some equipment to a school. I'll bet from now on they keep their profits to themselves.


Poor Subway? lol

You've never owned a business, have you? This is just advertising. Even complaining about them is still advertising for them.

Since this thread started, I've been wanting a sub myself.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Yup, poor, poor Subway. They can take their profits where they'd like, just like I can take my food dollars where *I'd* like.

The poor dears.

[Amy_G_]

Yup, poor, poor Subway. They can take their profits where they'd like, just like I can take my food dollars where *I'd* like.

The poor dears.

yes, subway can take their profits elsewhere instead of giving the equipment to the local school where it could do some good. In the big scheme of things I'd rather they give $5000 in athletic equipment to somewhere it could be put to good use, than to be so annoyed over the response to this contest from homeschoolers that they decide to never do such a contest again.

and if you look at the big education issue here--maybe subway was trying to get more kids writing stories?
maybe they felt it better use the contest for public schools, since we all know that homeschoolers don't have huge writing deficits, like those that public school kids do.

[JudyJudyJudy]

yes, subway can take their profits elsewhere instead of giving the equipment to the local school where it could do some good. In the big scheme of things I'd rather they give $5000 in athletic equipment to somewhere it could be put to good use, than to be so annoyed over the response to this contest from homeschoolers that they decide to never do such a contest again.
That's their choice. They could take the "so annoyed" route and never do such a contest again or the "we learned something" route and not exclude anyone next time.


and if you look at the big education issue here--maybe subway was trying to get more kids writing stories?
maybe they felt it better use the contest for public schools, since we all know that homeschoolers don't have huge writing deficits, like those that public school kids do.
I suspect you're being sarcastic here.

[Justicedog]

Or just make it easy - put the schools matching the demographics they're seeking into a hat, draw one and call Ty Pennington to do an Extreme Playground Makeover and be featured on that show.

[Amy_G_]

well an extreme playground makeover would be the ideal choice here.

[CatSoup]

All this talk about Subway is making me sick. My babies don't like meat in the womb. lol

[Aqua_Diamond]

I've answered throughout this thread, Justice. I am not willing to give my money to an organization that specifically excludes my children from a contest.

Seriously. I think it's pretty clear.

You answered that question, not that I think you needed to. You can boycott any business for any reason you want.
Did you answer the question about the labeling of Subway as "anti-homeschool?"

[JudyJudyJudy]

You answered that question, not that I think you needed to. You can boycott any business for any reason you want.
Did you answer the question about the labeling of Subway as "anti-homeschool?"
The thread title had a question mark after "anti-homeschool." It was a question, not a statement.