What in the hell is meant by a brick? (aka I wish I could tell my family I'm atheist)

[JudyJudyJudy]

My aunt just sent me this email. (I can't believe she's up!) This is the kind of thing she sends to me all the time, and I often just delete the emails without even opening them. However, since the title of this one (The Top Ten Predictions of 2008) wasn't obvious, I opened it. Anyway, can someone please explain what is meant by a "brick"?

THE TOP TEN PREDICTIONS FOR 2008

1. The Bible will still have all the answers.
2. Prayer will still work.
3. The Holy Spirit will still move.
4. God will still inhabit the praises of His people.
5. There will still be God-anointed preaching.
6. There will still be singing of praise to God.
7. God will still pour out blessings upon His people.
8. There will still be room at the Cross.
9. Jesus will still love you.
10. Jesus will still save the lost.

God whispers in your soul and speaks to your mind. Sometimes when you don't take time to listen, He has to throw a brick at you.

It's your choice: Listen to the whisper, or wait for the brick.

[MissesGoR]

:roflol

Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded). I honestly dont like that stuff either. I'm not atheist, but not epsecially religious. I do however chose to be a good person (mostly).

[Sunnie]

:roflol

Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded).


Oh nice.

[Still_Tbog]

I think it means you can listen to the quiet voice, or you can wait till it hits you like a brick.

[haleysmom]

:roflol

Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded).

Are you f-ing serious?

[BeanBabies]

Ruh-roh...

I don't know Judy. The 'hit you like a brick' makes sense, but I'm not religious, so I don't know.

[JustMoi]

The brick likely refers to something happening to the readers that hits them like a brick upside the head to make them suddenly believe - for instance, if you were in an accident it would be god's will so that you'd believe (couldn't POSSIBLY be random).

I don't understand why you can't just tell her you're an atheist. My entire family is full of staunch catholics on one side and bible-thumping baptists on the other. They learned the hard way that this sort of email will REALLY get blasted out of the water. My stepmother used to send them to me and to about 40 of her friends and relatives. My response was a reply to ALL (not just her) clearly stating that I'm an atheist and I would prefer not receiving her religious hyperbole as I find it to be the babblings of the brainwashed. I received about 5 emails from people on her list who agreed with me and who were glad someone finally told her to cut it out.

[joshsmom]

:roflol

Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded). I honestly dont like that stuff either. I'm not atheist, but not epsecially religious. I do however chose to be a good person (mostly).

To help you get off on the right foot here on our boards, it is the common consensus amongst us good people (mostly) that the use of the word "retarded" or it's newest incarnation you've coined, "motarded", to insult is in poor taste, shows a lack of class and a lack of sensitivity.

[joshsmom]

judy-I'm sorry that you get that kind of onslaught from your family. I read it as "the brick" being a big wake up call of some kind.

[Wolverine]

:roflol

Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded). I honestly dont like that stuff either. I'm not atheist, but not epsecially religious. I do however chose to be a good person (mostly).

Really?

[Babyblue]

:roflol

Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded). I honestly dont like that stuff either. I'm not atheist, but not epsecially religious. I do however chose to be a good person (mostly).


its a good idea to think before you speak, but you havent learned that yet have you?

[Prisca]

Oops, I wonder how bad this is going to be side-tracked.

Oh well, I'm going to say I think the "brick" represents anything jarring in your life to make you reflect over your relationship with God.

Though the image is interested, I think it's a pretty bad analogy, if you are talking about a kind loving god, what is he going to do with a brick? But it's not the worst I've heard.

I'm sorry you can't tell your family your beliefs. I'm not very close to my family, so there isn't much for me to tell or hide. My mother, sister, and brother all know I'm an atheist, and I suspect I've made it pretty obvious to my MIL and FIL as well. Anyone else isn't really a concern for me as far as family goes.

I do feel uncomfortable when making friends, because so far everyone I meet seems to feel religion is very important.

[janie]

I'm pretty sure you know what it means by a brick. Getting hit by a ton of bricks? In all of your infinite wisdom, you've never heard the phrase?

So, really, this is just another thread to bash those darn Christians and celebrate your non-beliefs.

I think people who like to flaunt their non-beliefs only do it out of spite for other people who might believe. I mean, what is the point? If you don't believe, you don't believe. Big deal. But some take it to the extreme and seem to want to wear it as a big ole' shiny gold plate around their neck. "I am atheist, hear me roar."

La de da. The ONLY people who care are those that somehow care about your soul, like your aunt. Is your rejecting God a way of rejecting them personally? I've seen quite a bit of bitterness about family members here and it makes one wonder. Why are you so concerned with what others think about you?

[Prisca]

And some people don't say it in real life, and just want an outlet to talk about it.

Most people are concerned with what other's think of us. It's part of being a social animal.

[_Tonks_]

Don't let Prisca fool you. She loves getting these kinds of emails.


Oh and I do truly believe my mom would send this kind of email forward if she knew how. Thank goodness she doesn't and doesn't seem to trust to open anything in her email that isn't from someone she gave birth to.

[Prisca]

LOL Tonks ... that cracks me up.

[RedheadbyChoice]

1--I hate email forwards like that
2--Tonks is awesome :D
3--motarded? Really? I don't have it in me today for one of those threads.

[nikkicola]

You know, like a car crash, or your child dying, losing your job, something great to bring you close to the Lord.

[Indigo]

I'm pretty sure you know what it means by a brick. Getting hit by a ton of bricks? In all of your infinite wisdom, you've never heard the phrase?

So, really, this is just another thread to bash those darn Christians and celebrate your non-beliefs.

I think people who like to flaunt their non-beliefs only do it out of spite for other people who might believe. I mean, what is the point? If you don't believe, you don't believe. Big deal. But some take it to the extreme and seem to want to wear it as a big ole' shiny gold plate around their neck. "I am atheist, hear me roar."

La de da. The ONLY people who care are those that somehow care about your soul, like your aunt. Is your rejecting God a way of rejecting them personally? I've seen quite a bit of bitterness about family members here and it makes one wonder. Why are you so concerned with what others think about you?

You are such and idiot. I am seeing people flaunt there beliefs in every conceivable way on a daily basis. While, most of the time I hear nothing about people who don't believe as it's not a huge topic of conversation asside from places like this where you can ask questions of both camps.

The issues with family are complicated and some family members do ridiculous things like taking non-belief personally. Seeking support of others who understand is very reasonable. As for JJJ I am assuming she was simply referring to wishing she could stop the asinine emails.

Judy I am thinking the brick thing simply refers to a bigger thing happening at the hands of god to get your attention when you are not hearing the call. It seems a bit like a threat actually.

[dalurker]

The idea of that brick being something traumatic to bring you closer to the lord isn't all that comforting. So he would inflict trauma up to the point of victimizing people in your life to scare you into compliance? Not my idea of a loving deity and does nothing to inspire an already spiritually conflicted person.

Janie, are you serious or just joking (I don't know you)? The fact that the title says outright that Judy wishes she could tell her family she is atheist certainly does not lead me to believe that she's wearing atheism as some big, bright, shiny badge and roaring about it. It sounds more like she has to keep her beliefs shrouded in secrecy and I completely understand since such a revelation could certainly have negative consequences not only among a heavily religious family, but professionally. I have no doubt that one's job could be affected by such a revelation. I didn't see her post as an attack on Christianity at all and it seems bizarre to me to read that into it.

Is there a door to door atheist movement? It's a near weekly occurence to have someone come to my door and try to convert me to Christianity, and that's not even taking into account casual conversations that include suggestions of prayer by complete strangers whether it's praying for rain, praying for the Braves to win or praying to win the lottery. Most atheists I know just suck it up rather than thumping their chests, proudly displaying their atheist badges and declaring, "I'm atheist, you Christian jerk!" I think the persecution complex is misplaced.

[JudyJudyJudy]

The brick likely refers to something happening to the readers that hits them like a brick upside the head to make them suddenly believe - for instance, if you were in an accident it would be god's will so that you'd believe (couldn't POSSIBLY be random).
That's how I took it.


I don't understand why you can't just tell her you're an atheist. My entire family is full of staunch catholics on one side and bible-thumping baptists on the other.
You don't know this side of the family. They would likely never speak to me again. To tell you how bad it is, I think it would be easier to tell my mother's JW side of the family than my father's Southern Baptist side of the family. I thnk they are where the stereotypes about the Bible Belt originate. :p

[JudyJudyJudy]

judy-I'm sorry that you get that kind of onslaught from your family.
Thanks.

I read it as "the brick" being a big wake up call of some kind.
But what kind of wake-up call?

[joshsmom]

Not sure. I guess it just implies that "something" bad will happen and THAT will make you want to listen to God.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm sorry you can't tell your family your beliefs. I'm not very close to my family, so there isn't much for me to tell or hide. My mother, sister, and brother all know I'm an atheist, and I suspect I've made it pretty obvious to my MIL and FIL as well. Anyone else isn't really a concern for me as far as family goes.
All of my siblings know, but I will never tell my mother. She'd worry too much. Even though my siblings know, they still argue with me that I really must believe in something, and all but one continue to send me stuff like this. Dh told fil, but I don't think he believed him; he sends me the Catholic-type emails, so I get them from all directions. I don't think mil knows, but she's likely to care less than any of the rest of them one way or the other (she's a liberal Catholic).


I do feel uncomfortable when making friends, because so far everyone I meet seems to feel religion is very important.
I know the feeling. Jacob and I are supposed to meet with a family tomorrow for Jacob and one of the kids to play. In the brief minutes we met them, we were already invited to church, and then when I talked to the mother on the phone, it was very obvious that she is pretty extreme in her beliefs. Even though her doctor obviously did things wrong, including inducing her too early, she says that her son's cerebral palsy was "meant to be." If things only happen that were "meant to be," why didn't she just let her pregnancy continue instead of being induced to keep from having a "big baby"? (Her first baby was 9 lb, so the doctor induced her four weeks early so that she wouldn't have another 9-lb baby.)

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm pretty sure you know what it means by a brick. Getting hit by a ton of bricks? In all of your infinite wisdom, you've never heard the phrase?

So, really, this is just another thread to bash those darn Christians and celebrate your non-beliefs.

I think people who like to flaunt their non-beliefs only do it out of spite for other people who might believe. I mean, what is the point? If you don't believe, you don't believe. Big deal. But some take it to the extreme and seem to want to wear it as a big ole' shiny gold plate around their neck. "I am atheist, hear me roar."
LMAO! Yeah, I flaunt my lack of belief. That's why I haven't told most of my family and friends. "lol9"

[JudyJudyJudy]

Not sure. I guess it just implies that "something" bad will happen and THAT will make you want to listen to God.
That's how I took it, too. I've posted before about how growing up, I was always "scared into believing." I guess this email is the same type of thing.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Gee, Janie, one could say the same for those who flaunt their faith in a deity. Buncha spiteful fuckers.

Seriously, though, is the *only* time you post here to complain about non-Christians?

[JudyJudyJudy]

The idea of that brick being something traumatic to bring you closer to the lord isn't all that comforting.
Not in the least.


Janie, are you serious or just joking (I don't know you)?
She is very serious. She seems to think that verything is an attack on Christianity, and I guess she feels that my lack of belief is threatening to her.


The fact that the title says outright that Judy wishes she could tell her family she is atheist certainly does not lead me to believe that she's wearing atheism as some big, bright, shiny badge and roaring about it. It sounds more like she has to keep her beliefs shrouded in secrecy and I completely understand since such a revelation could certainly have negative consequences not only among a heavily religious family, but professionally. I have no doubt that one's job could be affected by such a revelation.
I'm 99.9% sure that I wouldn't keep a job as a teacher in this county if they knew I was an atheist.


I didn't see her post as an attack on Christianity at all and it seems bizarre to me to read that into it.
That's Janie for you.


Is there a door to door atheist movement?
I must have missed it if there is.


I think the persecution complex is misplaced.
Absolutely.

[pawprint]

But some take it to the extreme and seem to want to wear it as a big ole' shiny gold plate around their neck.


Oh how I miss our old rolling laughing fellow.

Is that anything like the actual 'big ole' shiny gold' crosses many Christians wear?

[pawprint]

To add to the discussion, almost all of my friends and both my parents know I am an atheist agnostic. My IL's don't know. although I doubt they'd care. I don't feel the need to tell random people like parents of my children's friends etc. However I have the added bonus of being a UU, so I have some sort of 'religion' that others perceive as 'normal'. We go to a 'church' on Sunday. The kids go to RE "Sunday School". It works with most people's reality.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Oh how I miss our old rolling laughing fellow.

Is that anything like the actual 'big ole' shiny gold' crosses many Christians wear?
Or even put on their public school websites.

[hotlama]

:roflol
Lmao!!! Thats motarded (more than retarded).


Watch your back. I used the term retarded once I was plastered by everyone being against it. I guess your allowed to write ***** shit, and bitch on the bored but retarded just isn't accepted. It's kinda retarded but I guess thats just the way it is here.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Damn. I was trying to keep my thread from getting derailed.

Watch your back. I used the term retarded once I was plastered by everyone being against it. I guess your allowed to write ***** shit, and bitch on the bored but retarded just isn't accepted. It's kinda retarded but I guess thats just the way it is here.
I can understand someone's not understanding that she shouldn't use the word. However, once someone explains the reasoning behind it, I truly don't get why someone would continue to use it, and I am really surprised to see you doing this.

Do you truly see "bitch" and "retarded" as equivalent? Is bitch some new diagnosis of which I'm unaware?

[Tweet]

Watch your back. I used the term retarded once I was plastered by everyone being against it. I guess your allowed to write ***** shit, and bitch on the bored but retarded just isn't accepted. It's kinda retarded but I guess thats just the way it is here.


Wtf? Shit and bitch are not even close to using "retarded" as an insult. I'm leary of anyone that thinks it's funny or that would even think to use it as an insult. But, I'm especially more sensitive to it after parenting a child with special needs.

If you got your ass handed to you for using it as an insult, I'm glad. Maybe it gave you a different perspective . I hope it did.

Judy, I'd just ask my family to not send me any political or religious emails.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

When someone calls an autistic child a bitch or a cunt we'll have the same discussion, Hotlama.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Watch your back. I used the term retarded once I was plastered by everyone being against it. I guess your allowed to write ***** shit, and bitch on the bored but retarded just isn't accepted. It's kinda retarded but I guess thats just the way it is here.

I'm a bit shocked, lama. Strike that, very shocked, by this post of yours. Fuck and shit and bitch are curse words, the word retarded (used in this context and calling something retarded) is right up there, IMO, with calling someone a nigger.

As the mom of a kiddo with special needs, I'm REALLY fucking offended. And yes, I used the word 'fucking' there for emphasis.

[RedheadbyChoice]

.

If you got your ass handed to you for using it as an insult, I'm glad. Maybe it gave you a different perspective . I hope it did.

It appears not to have, Tweet. 'Tis quite unfortunate.

[janie]

This board just gets better and better. So, let's get this straight. You are allowed to throw out insults, anytime, any place. You just can't insult someone with certain phrases. And if/when someone happens to use a phrase that directly offends you, you must come out with personal experiences as to WHY it is insulting.

What you all need are some lists. Lots and lots of lists on acceptable insults. Make sure everyone gets the memo and you should be good to go.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Janie, I didn't think it would take a rocket scientist to be able to understand why the incorrect usage of the word "retarded" is inappropriate. I was capable of understanding at the age of 12 when the mother of a friend of mine explained why we shouldn't use it. Oh, and, yes, it had an even greater impact on me because the woman had a truly retarded sister.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Hey, don't lump me with anyone, Janie. I DON'T throw out insults, as a rule. I might say that someone is acting like an asshole, but I don't think you can find a post where I've insulted someone or used a racial slur or said something harmful about someone's medical condition.

[hotlama]

This board just gets better and better. So, let's get this straight. You are allowed to throw out insults, anytime, any place. You just can't insult someone with certain phrases. And if/when someone happens to use a phrase that directly offends you, you must come out with personal experiences as to WHY it is insulting.

What you all need are some lists. Lots and lots of lists on acceptable insults. Make sure everyone gets the memo and you should be good to go.

Kudos.

[Tweet]

Most intelligent people know the difference between using "fuck" and using the word retarded as an insult, Janie. No need for a list. People are of course free to use whatever insults they choose. And I'm free to say what offends me and then ignore those posters if I so chose. Sounds pretty simple to me.

If you don't want to know why using words like "retarded" as an insult is offensive and you don't want to hear about personal experiences with said word, fine. No one said you had to read it. But I'm not going to stop educating people about WHY the word is offensive just because it makes you get your panties in a twist.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Kudos.
Wow.

[Tweet]

I'm glad Hotlama is showing her true colors, actually.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Double wow.

Hotlama I'm truly am shocked and flabbergasted, seeing this from you. Makes me feel like the 'oh Connor's cute' that you've given me on picture threads was in the ball park of a pity fuck.

Damn.

[janie]

So this Hotlama person sees the inconsistencies here (blaring, I might add) and you immediately begin to insult her?

I'm thinking "showing her true colors" is meant to be an insult. Shame on you for insulting chameleons. I think that should be put on the list.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm glad Hotlama is showing her true colors, actually.
To be quite honest, I can see why someone wouldn't understand that certain terms can be seen as insults, so I don't like that people are jumped on for using such a term the first time. (I PM'ed MissesGoR instead of saying something to her in the thread.) However, once a person has been told, it shocks the hell out of me for the person to continue to use such a word, and, yes, shows what type of person she truly is.

[RedheadbyChoice]

I'm not insulting her, not at all. I'm just surprised by her responses. Condoning the use of the word retarded, as a negative adjective, truly does bother me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

So this Hotlama person sees the inconsistencies here (blaring, I might add) and you immediately begin to insult her?

I'm thinking "showing her true colors" is meant to be an insult. Shame on you for insulting chameleons. I think that should be put on the list.
As for insults, are you really as ignorant as you like to pretend? Is it truly so difficult for you to understand why some people are offended by the incorrect usage of the word "retarded"?

[hotlama]

I'm glad Hotlama is showing her true colors, actually.

Yeah, I'm a bad person because I don't have a problem with using or hearing the word retarded.

I have always heard the term retarted being used as a way to describe someone who is makings stupid choices or who are being dumbasses.

Around here when we are talking about people who are handicapped, disabled or have special needs, we refer to them as disabled, handicapped or those with special needs.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I have always heard the term retarted being used as a way to describe someone who is makings stupid choices or who are being dumbasses.
From where do you think the word originated? Do you always continue to use words that you know are hurtful to others?

[janie]

As for insults, are you really as ignorant as you like to pretend? Is it truly so difficult for you to understand why some people are offended by the incorrect usage of the word "retarded"?I don't think calling people retarded is any worse than using words like idiot or ignorant.

They are all insults, one does not have any moral superiority over the others.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I'm glad Hotlama is showing her true colors, actually.
She showed me her true colors months ago when she admitted that she wouldn't vote for someone to be President if they were Muslim.

[RedheadbyChoice]

What Judy said----that's how using it got started, as a 'humorous' insult to those who cannot make good choices, through no fault of their own.

I really cannot understand how you can not see how using retarded in that context isn't hurtful to others.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I don't think calling people retarded is any worse than using words like idiot or ignorant.
This, again, shows your ignorance. Ignorance can be corrected by choice; retardation cannot.

[janie]

She showed me her true colors months ago when she admitted that she wouldn't vote for someone to be President if they were Muslim.Oh, for heaven's sake, you CANNOT be serious.

Didn't I just read somewhere where you wouldn't DATE a Christian? I might have been mistaken, but I thought I read that in some thread.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Nope, I wouldn't date a Christian. I wouldn't marry one. Having to share my life with someone who thinks I'm headed to hell isn't on my list of things to do. A little different from voting for someone who happens to be of a different belief system in a country where what religion one follows has no bearing on how he or she is to follow the law of the land. Now don't you have a board full of people who think just like you to post at and with? Why not go there?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Oh, for heaven's sake, you CANNOT be serious.

Didn't I just read somewhere where you wouldn't DATE a Christian? I might have been mistaken, but I thought I read that in some thread.
Dating/marrying are totally different from voting for someone. There are plenty of types of people whom I will vote for and be friends with but wouldn't want to share my bed and my personal life.

[janie]

Dating/marrying are totally different from voting for someone. There are plenty of types of people whom I will vote for and be friends with but wouldn't want to share my bed and my personal life.They are both personal decisions that you are free to make and one is not different from the other.

No matter which way you try and spin it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Of course, they are personal decisions. It's also a personal decision to be prejudiced against various groups of people, but that doesn't make it okay.

[janie]

Nope, I wouldn't date a Christian. I wouldn't marry one. Having to share my life with someone who thinks I'm headed to hell isn't on my list of things to do. A little different from voting for someone who happens to be of a different belief system in a country where what religion one follows has no bearing on how he or she is to follow the law of the land. Now don't you have a board full of people who think just like you to post at and with? Why not go there?Um. Religion has a total bearing on how this person might choose to follow the law of the land. I'm sure you've been complaining about Bush and his policies for quite a while now.

Why are people like you so "afraid" of Christian candidates? I've read quite a few of those threads here as well.

It's a double standard to insult her and then say the exact same thing and act all innocent about it.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Fortunately for me I don't live according to the Word of Janie. Thanks, though.

I am honestly wondering why you bother to show up only to tell people here how terrible/inconsistent/unChristian they are.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Gah, the fucking dictionary even says that retarded is a form of offensive slang.

[janie]

Of course, they are personal decisions. It's also a personal decision to be prejudiced against various groups of people, but that doesn't make it okay.But YOUR prejudices are ok, while HERS are not?

Because you said so? Put it in your list.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Um. Religion has a total bearing on how this person might choose to follow the law of the land. I'm sure you've been complaining about Bush and his policies for quite a while now.

Why are people like you so "afraid" of Christian candidates? I've read quite a few of those threads here as well.

It's a double standard to insult her and then say the exact same thing and act all innocent about it.
:happy: If we were afraid of Christian candidates, we wouldn't vote at all.

[JudyJudyJudy]

But YOUR prejudices are ok, while HERS are not?

Because you said so? Put it in your list.
Which prejudices?

[chickabiddy]

Um. Religion has a total bearing on how this person might choose to follow the law of the land. I'm sure you've been complaining about Bush and his policies for quite a while now.

Why are people like you so "afraid" of Christian candidates? I've read quite a few of those threads here as well.

It's a double standard to insult her and then say the exact same thing and act all innocent about it.

I'm afraid of any candidate who would let his or her personal faith affect how s/he interprets the Constitution -- even if it's a faith I share.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm afraid of any candidate who would let his or her personal faith affect how s/he interprets the Constitution -- even if it's a faith I share.
Ditto.

[janie]

:happy: If we were afraid of Christian candidates, we wouldn't vote at all.I really hate that nervous laughter.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Are you going to answer my questions, Janie, or do you just want to finger wag some more? Because it's not a very becoming habit.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I really hate that nervous laughter.

Great comeback. *sarcasm*

[JudyJudyJudy]

Are you going to answer my questions, Janie, or do you just want to finger wag some more? Because it's not a very becoming habit.
Speaking of "flaunting" religious beliefs, I suspect there are Christians who wish people like Janie wouldn't flaunt their Christianity and then defend using such insults as "retarded."

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Um. Religion has a total bearing on how this person might choose to follow the law of the land.


'Might' doesn't equal 'will'. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to follow the Constitution and leave his or her personal/religious views out of it.

But no, Bush isn't a rocket scientist.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I agree, Judy. There are some wonderful Christians on this board who, I'd bet money, are cringing at Janie's representation of Christ.

[RedheadbyChoice]

I agree, Judy. There are some wonderful Christians on this board who, I'd bet money, are cringing at Janie's representation of Christ.

Me!

That is, if Sasha thinks I'm a wonderful person. ;)

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think you are a wonderful person, Red. :)

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I think so too. :)

[RedheadbyChoice]

*feeling all warm and fuzzy*

Hot damn! :)

[janie]

Someone, somewhere will get the actual irony here.

And if just one person sees it, I will be happy.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Okay Janie. Apparently your only goal here is to stir shit.

Duly noted. I'll simply ignore you until/unless you have something of substance to add to debates.

[BeanBabies]

I'm surprised to read this of hotlama.

Janie - not so much. I expect her to break out the "I'm rubber, you're glue" argument any second.

[Indigo]

Watch your back. I used the term retarded once I was plastered by everyone being against it. I guess your allowed to write ***** shit, and bitch on the bored but retarded just isn't accepted. It's kinda retarded but I guess thats just the way it is here.

What an ignorant ugly thing to say. Using that word, that is a diagnosis for some as an insult to others does not strike you as offensive? Yes you will be jumped on here for being this obnoxious.

[Indigo]

This board just gets better and better. So, let's get this straight. You are allowed to throw out insults, anytime, any place. You just can't insult someone with certain phrases. And if/when someone happens to use a phrase that directly offends you, you must come out with personal experiences as to WHY it is insulting.

What you all need are some lists. Lots and lots of lists on acceptable insults. Make sure everyone gets the memo and you should be good to go.

Ugh, you are just so beyond stupid that I doubt this will get through, however, there is no list needed, stop being an ignorant asshole and you won't step into it.

[Indigo]

Yeah, I'm a bad person because I don't have a problem with using or hearing the word retarded.

I have always heard the term retarted being used as a way to describe someone who is makings stupid choices or who are being dumbasses.

Around here when we are talking about people who are handicapped, disabled or have special needs, we refer to them as disabled, handicapped or those with special needs.

Yes but don't you see the issue with describing someone who is being a dumbass with the word used to diagnose a particular disability is offensive? Yeah that doesn't say a lot about the type of person you are.

[Prisca]

I'm not caught up here, but I'm jumping in anyhow.

First, I don't like to use the term "idiot" because I got huge trouble when I was a kid for using it, and that has stuck with me.

Also last month I was at a comedy show with a friend when the comedian started a joke about a "retard". Yes a real person who was mentally handicapped was the butt of this joke. My friend left in tears to return home to her son who is severly handicapped. It broke my heart to see someone so hurt. And this type of humor is far from in the past, and that's why it hurts so much.

I also give free passes who use the term without thinking. But to intentionally continue to use the word knowing it can hurt people is just beyond my understanding.

And also, I would not date a Christian (or at least I likely would not, can't say for sure) because or beliefs just would not mesh, especially when it comes to raising children. I would and do support Christians in every roll in society, including presidency. When I approach the polls soon, I will gladly be voting for yet another Christian president. I just don't think a Christian would be all that happy with me as a partner. Who knows though? I married my husband when I was young, and didn't date much. Our beliefs are similar, but we have sort of grown together.

[Indigo]

I don't think calling people retarded is any worse than using words like idiot or ignorant.

They are all insults, one does not have any moral superiority over the others.

Well you are an ignorant idiot for not seeing this difference.

[Indigo]

This, again, shows your ignorance. Ignorance can be corrected by choice; retardation cannot.

And there is the crux of the issue for those needing a clue, the same reason that race and gender are more offensive that pointing out someone's chosen asshatery.


"I'm 99.9% sure that I wouldn't keep a job as a teacher in this county if they knew I was an atheist."

Judy, IIRC you work in a public school. This is what disgusts me about Christianity in this country now. The idea that you may loose your job over your choice in what to believe, when this has no part in your job is inexcusable.

[Indigo]

Oh, for heaven's sake, you CANNOT be serious.

Didn't I just read somewhere where you wouldn't DATE a Christian? I might have been mistaken, but I thought I read that in some thread.

Taking someone to your bed and as your life partner is a very different thing than denying someone a job based on their religion. One is discrimination, and hate, one is living your life with someone who shares your ideas and values.

[Indigo]

They are both personal decisions that you are free to make and one is not different from the other.

No matter which way you try and spin it.

One is discrimination. Yes you are free to make the choice, but one is hate, one is not. No one said they wouldn't hire a Christian, or befriend one. Laying with someone, has a very different set of requirements, there a many many things I can think of that I would not be willing to tolerate in a spouse, that I would in an employee or candidate.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Taking someone to your bed and as your life partner is a very different thing than denying someone a job based on their religion. One is discrimination, and hate, one is living your life with someone who shares your ideas and values.
Exactly!

Yes, Indigo, I work in a public school. They still say prayers (Christian, of course) at all the faculty luncheons and such.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Our local public school has "G-d Bless America" under their "Have A Great Summer" sign.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Every school in this county has big framed pictures of "In God We Trust" in the library, cafeteria, and lobby/entrance area. In my school just as you walk in, right under the "Welcome" sign was a bif sign that had been placed by FCA that said, "U + God = Life."

[Indigo]

Someone, somewhere will get the actual irony here.

And if just one person sees it, I will be happy.

It's not there. You are trying to make it sound like it is but everyone sees through your nonsense.

[MissesGoR]

OMG people, its a word.... Sticks and stones... I am not sorry that i used the word. I dont know what the problem is, just because you know someone who has a handicap or disability you are offended that i said "retarded". There are so many words that hold more than one meaning and i was not trying to say that it was lliterally retarded.

You can all talk your shit about me and hotlama and janie. i really dont care. (btw i get the irony)

[Indigo]

Exactly!

Yes, Indigo, I work in a public school. They still say prayers (Christian, of course) at all the faculty luncheons and such.

Wow. That's illegal no? Are you unionized? Can anything be done about it? I can't even imagine. Want me to come protest out front for you?
Growing up I had Christian and Jewish, agnostic teachers, and I only really knew that because they had kids in the school and we talked about holidays Etc.
Your stories scare me about sending Eden to school in GA. I would go balistic. I will be that parent.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Yes, I'll tell the parent of an autistic child to get over it. Sticks and stones and all.

What a fucking asshole you are.

[Indigo]

Every school in this county has big framed pictures of "In God We Trust" in the library, cafeteria, and lobby/entrance area. In my school just as you walk in, right under the "Welcome" sign was a bif sign that had been placed by FCA that said, "U + God = Life."

Why are these laws being ignored? What is FCA?

[BeanBabies]

Okay, here is why it offends *me*.

When you call something/someone "retarded" you are calling it less than good. Dumb, useless, worthless, not deserving of respect, stupid, shitty.

There are mentally/physically retarded people in this world who are that way through no fault of their own. When you call something "retarded" (with the above connotations) you are insinuating that a mentally/physically retarded person is less than good, dumb, useless, worthless, not deserving of respect, stupid, shitty.

Ergo - it's akin to calling a mentally/physically retarded person less than good, dumb, uselss, worthless, not deserving of respect, stupid, shitty.

If you can't understand that, then I guess you're on your own. :(

[Indigo]

OMG people, its a word.... Sticks and stones... I am not sorry that i used the word. I dont know what the problem is, just because you know someone who has a handicap or disability you are offended that i said "retarded". There are so many words that hold more than one meaning and i was not trying to say that it was lliterally retarded.

You can all talk your shit about me and hotlama and janie. i really dont care. (btw i get the irony)


There isn't more than one meaning though, you are using what is meant by this diagnosis as an insult. It's hateful.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Wow. That's illegal no? Are you unionized? Can anything be done about it? I can't even imagine. Want me to come protest out front for you?

It's probably illegal, but no one will push it here for fear of retaliation. We don't have true teachers' unions in GA.

I'm going to PM you something.

[chickabiddy]

Okay, here is why it offends *me*.

When you call something/someone "retarded" you are calling it less than good. Dumb, useless, worthless, not deserving of respect, stupid, shitty.

There are mentally/physically retarded people in this world who are that way through no fault of their own. When you call something "retarded" (with the above connotations) you are insinuating that a mentally/physically retarded person is less than good, dumb, useless, worthless, not deserving of respect, stupid, shitty.

Ergo - it's akin to calling a mentally/physically retarded person less than good, dumb, uselss, worthless, not deserving of respect, stupid, shitty.

If you can't understand that, then I guess you're on your own. :(

What a perfect explanation. Exactly.

[BeanBabies]

OMG people, its a word.... Sticks and stones... I am not sorry that i used the word. I dont know what the problem is, just because you know someone who has a handicap or disability you are offended that i said "retarded". There are so many words that hold more than one meaning and i was not trying to say that it was lliterally retarded.

You can all talk your shit about me and hotlama and janie. i really dont care. (btw i get the irony)Why don't you care, though? You have a plethora of people telling you it's offensive and you don't care that you are offending people.

Did you know my name used to be BeanerBabies? (My daughter's nickname is EmmaBeans and it - over time - evolved into Beaner) I didn't realize it was a slur until it was pointed out to me here. It's not a slur to me, but out of respect I changed my name so as not to offend someone.

It's no big deal, I wasn't offended when someone pointed it out. In fact, I was a bit horrified that maybe there were people thinking I was using it as a slur.

I don't understand your position here whatsoever.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

ICAM, Beaner. Of course, people are able to use the word as blithely as they'd wish. In turn, it shows me something about that person that tells me that I'd rather not be around them.

[MissesGoR]

Ok, I had cancer, and people are scared to say the word CANCER. They think it is going to offend someone, or it offends them. If you can get over these things then thats fine, keep bitching about it., but thats life and people are going to say and do things you dont like. so go ahead and attack me.

[BeanBabies]

It's probably illegal, but no one will push it here for fear of retaliation. We don't have true teachers' unions in GA.

I'm going to PM you something.


Dh and I keep our religion (or lack thereof) completely to ourselves here. (We're in northern Florida.) We figure if we just keep quiet, no one will notice. "lol9"

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Yes, not saying the word cancer is the same as using retarded as an insult.

You stupid cunt.

[chickabiddy]

OMG people, its a word.... Sticks and stones... I am not sorry that i used the word. I dont know what the problem is, just because you know someone who has a handicap or disability you are offended that i said "retarded". There are so many words that hold more than one meaning and i was not trying to say that it was lliterally retarded.

If you believed that a person was, literally, retarded, that would not be an insult. Believing that "retarded" is an insult -- that's insulting to people who are retarded.

[BeanBabies]

Ok, I had cancer, and people are scared to say the word CANCER. They think it is going to offend someone, or it offends them. If you can get over these things then thats fine, keep bitching about it., but thats life and people are going to say and do things you dont like. so go ahead and attack me.


That makes zero sense whatsoever.

If you saw something you thought was unintelligent, would you say..."That's *so* cancer!" ?

[RedheadbyChoice]

OMG people, its a word.... Sticks and stones... I am not sorry that i used the word. I dont know what the problem is, just because you know someone who has a handicap or disability you are offended that i said "retarded". There are so many words that hold more than one meaning and i was not trying to say that it was lliterally retarded.

You can all talk your shit about me and hotlama and janie. i really dont care. (btw i get the irony)

You know, I try to be a pleasant person, I do. Not just because I'm a mod here, but because I do truly like being a nice person. But right about now, I'd love to use some of those sticks and stones to whomp on your ass.

My son has special needs. Cerebal palsy plus a hearing disorder and developmental delays. He doesn't speak intelligibly, save for a few words, but does understand a lot and uses some sign language. But he doesn't walk on his own (he uses a walker) and may never walk on his own, we just don't know.

And I've had people call him retarded. And it hurts me to the core because my son can't do anything about his condition, he was born that way. And he's a fabulous little boy, truly he is. There are some here who know him IRL, who would attest to that. Many more who only know of him through me and my posts, and *they're* offended on my behalf, I know they are.

I'm amazed that someone who can use the spoken word cannot see how offensive it is.

I rarely use this on the boards, but go fuck right on off. You suck.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Why are these laws being ignored?
Welcome to the Bible Belt.

What is FCA?
Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Red, I'm so angry for you that I'm shaking. I am so sorry that someone would make such a comment KNOWING how it makes others feel, especially a parent who is perfectly aware that their child will never be "normal". Again, it really shows who is worthy of time and attention. Your son is. Hotlama, Janie, and whatsherface are not.

[BeanBabies]

Now - before the "how come it's okay to call someone a cunt or tell them to fuck off, but I can't use the word retarded" argument rears it's ugly head - it's not the same thing.

Why? Because if you call someone a stupid fucking whorebag, you're not taking down a population of people with you. You, and you alone are the stupid fucking whorebag. Big difference.

[Prisca]

Welcome to the Bible Belt.


Fellowship of Christian Athletes.


I was in the FCA, lol. I wasn't an athlete though.

[RedheadbyChoice]

*snuggles Sasha*

Thanks, babe.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Why? Because if you call someone a stupid fucking whorebag, you're not taking down a population of people with you. You, and you alone are the stupid fucking whorebag. Big difference.

Yup. I'm capable of insulting people without bringing the handicapped into it.

[Prisca]

I'm just flat out pissed with this attitude. I have no patience for it today. It's one thing to carelessly use a phrase that is hurtful. Don't think it's hurtful? Try raising a mentally handicapped child in a society who treats them as less than human, and uses thier condition as in insult on a regular basis. But to repeatedly use it knowing it's hurtful is just fucking assholish.

You want to be a bitch, go right the head and do it. Let the world know who you are right from the begining. It'll make it easier to sort you out from decent folk.

[chickabiddy]

Yup. I'm capable of insulting people without bringing the handicapped into it.

Well, my cunt didn't appreciate being lumped in with janie and hotlama and MissesGoR. :P

[MissesGoR]

throwing insults is not going to make me anymore sorry than i am now. Im done with this thead.

[RedheadbyChoice]

*thinks to self whom she'd like to call a stupid fucking whorebag and is coming up with a name*

[Prisca]

Good, cause I think most of us are done with you. And if they aren't, I hope they will be. You could just say "I'm sorry, I didn't think about how that would affect some people". But no, you go and act like a 5 year old and stamp your feet saying you can say whatever you want.

Of course you can. But it only shows us what type of person you are.

[janie]

Redhead, I never said it was acceptable to call someone retarded. I just said you can't impose that as an insult higher than any other insult. An insult is an insult. The insults on this board are a definite attempt to tear someone down.

This board is like a group of crusty curmudgeons. All with their hair in buns, and in walks the new girl who obviously walks to the beat of a different drummer. They're all tsk, tsking her and gossiping about her in the corner stating what an awful person she is.

I somehow think you got in the middle of this when that never should have happened. I certainly didn't mean to offend you in any way.

[RedheadbyChoice]

throwing insults is not going to make me anymore sorry than i am now. Im done with this thead.

Ooh!

Are you flouncing off?

And this isn't a threat, but trust me, the board memory function here is pretty fucking good.

[BeanBabies]

throwing insults is not going to make me anymore sorry than i am now. Im done with this thead.
So, why is it alright for you to insult a large group of people, but not okay for a large group of people to insult you? Six of one, half dozen of the other, no?

And I find it interesting how one has no argument so they whine "I'm done with this thread". How convenient for you.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Redhead, I never said it was acceptable to call someone retarded. I just said you can't impose that as an insult higher than any other insult. An insult is an insult. The insults on this board are a definite attempt to tear someone down.

This board is like a group of crusty curmudgeons. All with their hair in buns, and in walks the new girl who obviously walks to the beat of a different drummer. They're all tsk, tsking her and gossiping about her in the corner stating what an awful person she is.

I somehow think you got in the middle of this when that never should have happened. I certainly didn't mean to offend you in any way.

Thank you, and I mean that.

I do, however, disagree with you about insults. Calling someone an asshat, because he is being rude to his wife isn't in the same league as someone calling something or someone retarded.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I remember arguing with people on this board that "schizo" shouldn't be thrown around so lightly. I was quite surprised that so many people who are offended by the use of "retarded" or "retard" thought that using "schizo" was no big deal.

[chickabiddy]

Thank you, and I mean that.

I do, however, disagree with you about insults. Calling someone an asshat, because he is being rude to his wife isn't in the same league as someone calling something or someone retarded.

Exactly. We are not offended on behalf of the author of the email in the OP, who was referred to as "motarded". We are offended on behalf of people with mental retardation, whose condition is being mocked.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Im done with this thead.

Buh-bye.

[BeanBabies]

Redhead, I never said it was acceptable to call someone retarded. I just said you can't impose that as an insult higher than any other insult. An insult is an insult. The insults on this board are a definite attempt to tear someone down.

This board is like a group of crusty curmudgeons. All with their hair in buns, and in walks the new girl who obviously walks to the beat of a different drummer. They're all tsk, tsking her and gossiping about her in the corner stating what an awful person she is.

I somehow think you got in the middle of this when that never should have happened. I certainly didn't mean to offend you in any way.

Firstly, no it is most definitely NOT the same. I was insulting a person outright. Sure. But - I was not also insulting millions of other people at the same time.

I don't understand why one wouldn't understand that. Is it because you can't understand, or you just don't want to?

And because I don't like insulting an entire population of people, I'm automatically an old fart tsk-tsk-ing you from the corner? That's ridiculous, you whippersnapper.

[Marysmom]

Wow! Growing up, I used the word "retarded" as an insult, as well as "gay". But as soon as I realized how hurtful it was (not to metion how unintelligent it made me look), I tried very hard to rid those words from my vocabulary.

I was recently reading a blog about this subject and this guy talks about using the word "lame" in the same way. Lame is a word that describes a person who is physically disabled. Many of us use it to describe something that is stupid or dumb. Since I read this, I'm now trying to stop using the word "lame" as an insult.

[janie]

Is it as offensive when someone says "That's so gay"?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Marysmom, the words that I used that I didn't know were offensive were "gypped" (didn't even know how it was spelled) and "jewed down." I found out from this board that they were offensive and why, so I now try not to use them.

[janie]

Firstly, no it is most definitely NOT the same. I was insulting a person outright. Sure. But - I was not also insulting millions of other people at the same time.

I don't understand why one wouldn't understand that. Is it because you can't understand, or you just don't want to?

And because I don't like insulting an entire population of people, I'm automatically an old fart tsk-tsk-ing you from the corner? That's ridiculous, you whippersnapper.Wait. So, if I call you retarded (which I'm not), I'm insulting a whole group of people and if you call me a whore, you're not? What about all the whores? Are they not worthy of life?

And why women call women derogatory names regarding parts of their body is beyond me. THAT is very offensive and sends women right back into the stone ages.

[BeanBabies]

Is it as offensive when someone says "That's so gay"?


Are you reading this thread or just posting for shits and giggles?

[RedheadbyChoice]

Is it as offensive when someone says "That's so gay"?

Yep, because it's used to insult a whole group of people, a sect of society, if you will.

Are there people who refer to themselves as asshats? Or a medical condition know as such? Nope.

Gay.......yep, that can describe a group of people of that sexual persuasion. Same with retarded.

Hence its offensiveness.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Are you reading this thread or just posting for shits and giggles?

Her posts are only designed to shit stir. She uses nothing but faulty logic and red herrings (when she isn't crying religious persecution and finger wagging).

I don't believe for a second she really wants an answer. After all, if you look at her message board the belief is that homosexuals are pedophiles who don't deserve basic human rights.

[janie]

Are you reading this thread or just posting for shits and giggles?It's an honest question. I noticed someone else posted it after I hit enter.

[RedheadbyChoice]

I replied to it, Janie.

[janie]

Her posts are only designed to shit stir. She uses nothing but faulty logic and red herrings.

I don't believe for a second she really wants an answer. After all, if you look at her message board the belief is that homosexuals are pedophiles who don't deserve basic human rights.You are so darn bitter that someone could speak direct loving words to you and your ears would jumble them into hatred before they made it to your brain.

[Prisca]

Is it as offensive when someone says "That's so gay"?


Yes, and it's also annoying and something I don't expect to hear from an adult. And am disappointed when I do.

[BeanBabies]

Wait. So, if I call you retarded (which I'm not), I'm insulting a whole group of people and if you call me a whore, you're not? What about all the whores? Are they not worthy of life?

And why women call women derogatory names regarding parts of their body is beyond me. THAT is very offensive and sends women right back into the stone ages.Oh my.

Okay. How about this. Maybe whore was not appropriate.

How about festering bush pig? I'm pretty sure that pigs don't mind much.

[janie]

Yep, because it's used to insult a whole group of people, a sect of society, if you will.

Are there people who refer to themselves as asshats? Or a medical condition know as such? Nope.

Gay.......yep, that can describe a group of people of that sexual persuasion. Same with retarded.

Hence its offensiveness.You know, I do see your point. But I still think an insult isn't less of an insult if it is directed at one person. You're still attempting to bring that person down. Your goal is still the same.

[BeanBabies]

You are so darn bitter that someone could speak direct loving words to you and your ears would jumble them into hatred before they made it to your brain.

How is she bitter?

[JudyJudyJudy]

I don't generally use the term "whore" as an insult. However, unless a person is mentally ill, being a whore is a choice; being retarded is not.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You know, I do see your point. But I still think an insult isn't less of an insult if it is directed at one person. You're still attempting to bring that person down. Your goal is still the same.
Can you truly not see the difference between insulting one person alone in an argument and insulting/hurting an entire group of people in an attempt to insult one person?

[BeanBabies]

You know, I do see your point. But I still think an insult isn't less of an insult if it is directed at one person. You're still attempting to bring that person down. Your goal is still the same.

The goal is the same. Sure. I don't think anyone is debating that. What one *is* debating is the aftermath of said insult. If I call you a twat, I'm insulting you. If I called you a retarded twat, I'm insulting millions of people who don't have their foot in this argument.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

And whores are able to defend themselves. People with disabilities can't and their families shouldn't have to.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You are so darn bitter that someone could speak direct loving words to you and your ears would jumble them into hatred before they made it to your brain.
Sasha accepts loving words quite well. I guess you wouldn't know that, though, since you've probably never given her any.

[janie]

Can you truly not see the difference between insulting one person alone in an argument and insulting/hurting an entire group of people in an attempt to insult one person?I see the difference, I see your point.

But MY point is, that insulting even ONE person isn't any better than insulting an entire group. Can you agree with that?

[Prisca]

You know, I do see your point. But I still think an insult isn't less of an insult if it is directed at one person. You're still attempting to bring that person down. Your goal is still the same.


Yes, but the result is different.

It's one think to insult the person you are talking to. Not that insulting people is great. But the insult is isolated only to the one you mean to insult.

However it's different to insult other people, by using thier condition as an insult.

When I was a kid, I remember hearing certain people call people my brother's name whenever they made a mistake or did something embarrassing. My brother wasn't there to hear at the time. But it was hurtful to hear his name used as an insult just because he was less than perfect. They loved to make fun of him, and it still gets to me to this day, remembering that.

[Indigo]

Welcome to the Bible Belt.


Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Wow, not cool at all. As long as there is any group out there wishing to have prayers said in public schools or hang these asinine signs, then I don't want to hear one word claiming offense when complaints arise.

[RedheadbyChoice]

You know, I do see your point. But I still think an insult isn't less of an insult if it is directed at one person. You're still attempting to bring that person down. Your goal is still the same.

But bringing one person down vs. insulting an entire group of people? That's what makes it different, IMO.

Asshattish behavior can be corrected. Someone's mental retardation cannot. Therein lies the biggest difference for me. Ergo, calling someone an asshat is less offensive than calling someone retarded. And honestly, aside from the fact that it's not the nicest thing to do, I don't see a thing wrong with calling attention to or calling someone out on asshat behavior. Because it is something that person can change.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I see the difference, I see your point.

But MY point is, that insulting even ONE person isn't any better than insulting an entire group. Can you agree with that?
No, I can't agree. If I'm acting horribly and someone insults me, I probably deserve it. Retarded people, gay people, or people with schizophrenia aren't responsible for what I did and don't deserve to be insulted.

[chickabiddy]

I see the difference, I see your point.

But MY point is, that insulting even ONE person isn't any better than insulting an entire group. Can you agree with that?

No, I can't -- at least not in this instance. Whether the ONE person deserved insult or not, she willingly entered into the debate. People with retardation -- the group -- did not choose to be involved and therefore did not deserve to be insulted.

[Prisca]

FWIW I also feel this way when debates turn to making fun of people's spelling and intelligence. It turns my stomach to think of people being judged in such a way.

[janie]

Sasha accepts loving words quite well. I guess you wouldn't know that, though, since you've probably never given her any.Ok, well, I'm sure she does. She has been saying negative things about the people at my board for quite awhile. For as much as you all complain when people paint a broad brush about a group of people, she sure does that. It isn't true.

Just like it wasn't true when I called you all a bunch of crusty curmudgeons.

[BeanBabies]

I see the difference, I see your point.

But MY point is, that insulting even ONE person isn't any better than insulting an entire group. Can you agree with that?


I agree to a point. It's not right to insult anyone. Granted. You're right. But - if I *were* to insult someone, they'd be here to defend themselves.

[Indigo]

Now - before the "how come it's okay to call someone a cunt or tell them to fuck off, but I can't use the word retarded" argument rears it's ugly head - it's not the same thing.

Why? Because if you call someone a stupid fucking whorebag, you're not taking down a population of people with you. You, and you alone are the stupid fucking whorebag. Big difference.

Also you have a choice about being a stupid fucking whorebag, which is really the crux of this issue. Disability is not a choice, your actions however are. If your choices make you a stupid fucking whorebag then you'll have to wear the stupid fucking whorebag hat and shut the fuck up.

[Indigo]

*snuggles Sasha*

Thanks, babe.


HUGS Red

[janie]

Also you have a choice about being a stupid fucking whorebag, which is really the crux of this issue. Disability is not a choice, your actions however are. If your choices make you a stupid fucking whorebag then you'll have to wear the stupid fucking whorebag hat and shut the fuck up.Have you always had that avatar or did I just notice it?

[Aeonkat]

Now - before the "how come it's okay to call someone a cunt or tell them to fuck off, but I can't use the word retarded" argument rears it's ugly head - it's not the same thing.

Why? Because if you call someone a stupid fucking whorebag, you're not taking down a population of people with you. You, and you alone are the stupid fucking whorebag. Big difference.


Actually, you are insulting whores.

Now I am not in any way siding with hotlama, janie, or the other chick. They all are pretty ignoramt in my book, but I digress...

There is a generation where it is acceptable to use retard as you would freely use bitch. I don't use it here because I know it offends some here. However, I also would never refer to a handicap person as retarded (in the supposed true definition). I don't think anyone here would refer to their handicap or special needs child as retarded either. SO I take that as retard does not refer to handicap anymore. It has adopted it's slang definition, just as many words over the years have (gay comes to mind, so does fag). An insult is an insult regardless.

Fwiw, comparing the n-word to retard is pretty fucked up. A racial, hateful slur is no way on the same level as retard. Stupid and idiot are on the same level as retard, not a racial slur.

Also, I have seen "special" used in a similar manner and rarely people get up in arms about it. Which is funny since special is used when describing a handicap (i.e. special needs). I think stupid would be just as insulting as using retard as well. Because generally someone that is stupid (literally) has a handicap so in essence you are calling them handicap or retarded. I think if you are going to get offended, then do wholly, not half assed.

It really bothers me the way people went off here and the names and nastiness displayed. You lost your message when you threw out your first insult (especially when that was the point of your whole argument). I'm sure I will get it thrown in my face how I am have been insulting and my message lost in the past. Yep, you're damn straight and it is no different here. Practice what you preach. Also, the person didn't call YOUR child retarded so I think your anger is very misplaced. I am bothered that people here who are bothered by the word retard associate that with their handicap child. It's like you are saying your child is retarded. If you're not then why the anger?

I do remember threads where "crazy" and similar words used as insults or to describe events and many people refusing to accept the same reasoning used in regards to retard. But since fewer people are affected by crazy, it had and has been dismissed. The words are still very much used and thrown around without a thought when you very well know it has been said to be offensive to some. So really, while I like most of the posters who are pissed and offended, some of you are being hypocrites. The only worthy cause is your cause, right?

Don't misinterpret my message now (ha!). I am not saying stop using insults (while that would be nice on all of us) or that using retard is ok. I am merely offering a different point of view outside the very sensitive, PC world of bf.com.

[RedheadbyChoice]

If your choices make you a stupid fucking whorebag then you'll have to wear the stupid fucking whorebag hat and shut the fuck up.

snort

I just snorted chai up my nose. Thanks, Indigo!

And thanks, too, for the hugs. *smooch*

[Prisca]

You are wrong Aeon, about one thing. People do still use retard and retarded to refer to mentally handicapped people. The majority of them are from an older generation. But I hear it from people my age and younger as well.

Now I will finish reading what you typed, sorry.

[janie]

Sasha... no, I don't come here just to stir the shit. It just naturally happens when I speak here. :)

For some odd reason, I enjoy it. I always leave a thread with a better understanding of you all... and for the most part, it's an appreciation of who you are, whether you believe that or not.

Best wishes and strength for the remainder of your pregnancy.

And I'm not just saying this because Judy made me.

[Prisca]

People keep changing the words used for the mentally handicapped because people keep turning them into insults. That's why.

[Indigo]

Redhead, I never said it was acceptable to call someone retarded. I just said you can't impose that as an insult higher than any other insult. An insult is an insult. The insults on this board are a definite attempt to tear someone down.

This board is like a group of crusty curmudgeons. All with their hair in buns, and in walks the new girl who obviously walks to the beat of a different drummer. They're all tsk, tsking her and gossiping about her in the corner stating what an awful person she is.

I somehow think you got in the middle of this when that never should have happened. I certainly didn't mean to offend you in any way.

Yes insults are meant to insult. Though some go beyond insult to cruel, offensive and hateful. There is a big difference here, and anyone with the most basic understanding of language can see that all words of insult are not created equally.

It's not a different drummer to be offensive then cry, I can do whatever I want! Continuing to offend and acting like a child.

Oh and I have long flowing, not wrapped up, blond hair, no crust, and an active social life.

[Aeonkat]

As much as I hate to say it, Janie has a point in regards to using cunt or pussy as an insult. It's insulting to women.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Fwiw, comparing the n-word to retard is pretty fucked up. A racial, hateful slur is no way on the same level as retard. Stupid and idiot are on the same level as retard, not a racial slur.
I disagree here. I do think it's just as bad to call someone with special needs (whether the person is actually labeled "retarded" or not) a "retard" is just as bad as calling a black person a "nigger." I know many don't agree, but that's how I feel.

[BeanBabies]

You're right, Aeon. One kingdom at a time, my friend.

And if you read further, you'll see I retracted "whore". Even though, as pointed out later, being a whore is a choice. Being mentally retarded is most definitely not.

[Aeonkat]

Actually, you are insulting whores.

Now I am not in any way siding with hotlama, janie, or the other chick. They all are pretty ignoramt in my book, but I digress...

There is a generation where it is acceptable to use retard as you would freely use bitch. I don't use it here because I know it offends some here. However, I also would never refer to a handicap person as retarded (in the supposed true definition). I don't think anyone here would refer to their handicap or special needs child as retarded either. SO I take that as retard does not refer to handicap anymore. It has adopted it's slang definition, just as many words over the years have (gay comes to mind, so does fag). An insult is an insult regardless.

Fwiw, comparing the n-word to retard is pretty fucked up. A racial, hateful slur is no way on the same level as retard. Stupid and idiot are on the same level as retard, not a racial slur.

Also, I have seen "special" used in a similar manner and rarely people get up in arms about it. Which is funny since special is used when describing a handicap (i.e. special needs). I think stupid would be just as insulting as using retard as well. Because generally someone that is stupid (literally) has a handicap so in essence you are calling them handicap or retarded. I think if you are going to get offended, then do wholly, not half assed.

It really bothers me the way people went off here and the names and nastiness displayed. You lost your message when you threw out your first insult (especially when that was the point of your whole argument). I'm sure I will get it thrown in my face how I am have been insulting and my message lost in the past. Yep, you're damn straight and it is no different here. Practice what you preach. Also, the person didn't call YOUR child retarded so I think your anger is very misplaced. I am bothered that people here who are bothered by the word retard associate that with their handicap child. It's like you are saying your child is retarded. If you're not then why the anger?

I do remember threads where "crazy" and similar words used as insults or to describe events and many people refusing to accept the same reasoning used in regards to retard. But since fewer people are affected by crazy, it had and has been dismissed. The words are still very much used and thrown around without a thought when you very well know it has been said to be offensive to some. So really, while I like most of the posters who are pissed and offended, some of you are being hypocrites. The only worthy cause is your cause, right?

Don't misinterpret my message now (ha!). I am not saying stop using insults (while that would be nice on all of us) or that using retard is ok. I am merely offering a different point of view outside the very sensitive, PC world of bf.com.

Wow. Even a smilie here is called 'crazy'. How is that acceptable, but using retard isn't? Btw....that smilie in my post was unintended. I just put crazy in quotes.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I do remember threads where "crazy" and similar words used as insults or to describe events and many people refusing to accept the same reasoning used in regards to retard. But since fewer people are affected by crazy, it had and has been dismissed. The words are still very much used and thrown around without a thought when you very well know it has been said to be offensive to some. So really, while I like most of the posters who are pissed and offended, some of you are being hypocrites. The only worthy cause is your cause, right?
This was my point about "schizo."

[michiganmommy2]

Fwiw, comparing the n-word to retard is pretty fucked up. A racial, hateful slur is no way on the same level as retard. Stupid and idiot are on the same level as retard, not a racial slur.


/snip

Many would argue that retarded is a hateful, racial slur.

In fact, I believe that's what many are arguing here.

Just because you don't think "retard" and "nigger" aren't on the same level doesn't mean others don't.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Fwiw, comparing the n-word to retard is pretty fucked up. A racial, hateful slur is no way on the same level as retard. Stupid and idiot are on the same level as retard, not a racial slur.

Also, I have seen "special" used in a similar manner and rarely people get up in arms about it. Which is funny since special is used when describing a handicap (i.e. special needs). I think stupid would be just as insulting as using retard as well. Because generally someone that is stupid (literally) has a handicap so in essence you are calling them handicap or retarded. I think if you are going to get offended, then do wholly, not half assed.


Well, that was me, who compared it and as the mom of a kiddo with disabilities, I *do* think it offends an entire group of people who cannot do anything about their disabilities, much as a black person cannot change the color of their skin.

Stupid vs. retarded? Nope, not seeing how it's the same at all.

Maybe *I'm* the asshat because I don't see anything wrong with referring to Connor as having special needs in one sentence and saying that my DD Audrey is special to me in another. Special, in reference to Connor, isn't being used as an insult.

[BeanBabies]

As much as I hate to say it, Janie has a point in regards to using cunt or pussy as an insult. It's insulting to women.

How about asshole? That's an equal opportunity insult, no? Douchebag?

[Indigo]

Is it as offensive when someone says "That's so gay"?


How would you feel about "That's so Janie, or That's so Christian" meaning stupid or ridiculous?

[Prisca]

As much as I hate to say it, Janie has a point in regards to using cunt or pussy as an insult. It's insulting to women.


And I've seen that brought up here many times as well. However when it comes down to it, most people aren't as concerned about the feelings of thier body parts as they are about people.

I think it's a bad idea to use female parts to put some one down. I don't think people realize the depth of that as easily though.

I'm not a fan of calling people whores as an inult either. LOL I'm actually pretty picky about insults, but my opinions on each vary by degrees.

[Aeonkat]

You're right, Aeon. One kingdom at a time, my friend.

And if you read further, you'll see I retracted "whore". Even though, as pointed out later, being a whore is a choice. Being mentally retarded is most definitely not.


I saw. :) I just typed slow in comparison to the movement of this thread.

Judy, we will have to agree to disagree. Retards (gosh I hate using that word to describe handicap people so I won't anymore other than here where it is needed to be) were not enslaved and had their rights taken away. It's not a hateful word. the n-word is purely hateful, retard is not imo. People who use retard generally don't have hate for the actual handicap community. The people who use the n-word in a angry/insulting manner, generally do.

[Aeonkat]

How would you feel about "That's so Janie, or That's so Christian" meaning stupid or ridiculous?


LOL. What a good point.

[RedheadbyChoice]

I think it's a bad idea to use female parts to put some one down. I don't think people realize the depth of that as easily though.


But if I call enough people dicks or dickheads, am I good? You know, keeping it balanced?



;)

yes, that was tongue in cheek

[Prisca]

Look up the history on the treatment of mentally handicapped people. If you aren't aware of it, you may be in for something very sad.

If you are, then I'm surprised you can be so non-chalant about it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I saw. :) I just typed slow in comparison to the movement of this thread.

Judy, we will have to agree to disagree. Retards (gosh I hate using that word to describe handicap people so I won't anymore other than here where it is needed to be) were not enslaved and had their rights taken away. It's not a hateful word. the n-word is purely hateful, retard is not imo. People who use retard generally don't have hate for the actual handicap community. The people who use the n-word in a angry/insulting manner, generally do.
I have indeed seen that. Also, handicapped people have indeed been discriminated against. Otherwise, there would be no need to have laws to protect those with disabilities.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Look up the history on the treatment of mentally handicapped people. If you aren't aware of it, you may be in for something very sad.

If you are, then I'm surprised you can be so non-chalant about it.
Absolutely. It's horrible.

[janie]

How would you feel about "That's so Janie, or That's so Christian" meaning stupid or ridiculous?I'm pretty sure it just was back a page or two. Actually it was "Word of Janie". I'm pretty sure the person who posted it meant stupid/ridiculous.

[Aeonkat]

And I've seen that brought up here many times as well. However when it comes down to it, most people aren't as concerned about the feelings of thier body parts as they are about people.

I think it's a bad idea to use female parts to put some one down. I don't think people realize the depth of that as easily though.

I'm not a fan of calling people whores as an inult either. LOL I'm actually pretty picky about insults, but my opinions on each vary by degrees.

That was the point of my post though. People fight for what affects them generally only. I think what we need to realize here is either fight for all and accept everyone's sensitivities or see some as something that is your own personal issue. Outside of this board, people generally do not care if you use retard, many people do and don't mean it to be offensive to handicap people. I know when I have used it, I NEVER meant it to be offensive to handicap people.

Not all whores are whores by choice. Sexual abuse, force, drug addiction, etc play a big role in prostitution. Really, it could very well be just as insulting as retard. I am kinda bothered it has been brushed off by some here. I can't imagine how someone would feel if they were involved with prostitution before could be hurt that it is being used as an insult when prostitution is not what it should be perceived as. Like they are shit or less of a human being and nasty. Just something to think about.

[Aeonkat]

I have indeed seen that. Also, handicapped people have indeed been discriminated against. Otherwise, there would be no need to have laws to protect those with disabilities.


I don't deny that. I guess I just see it different from race. I will see the point though.

[Indigo]

I see the difference, I see your point.

But MY point is, that insulting even ONE person isn't any better than insulting an entire group. Can you agree with that?

Well no. Individual people often deserve it, while whole groups hardly ever do.

[Aeonkat]

Well, that was me, who compared it and as the mom of a kiddo with disabilities, I *do* think it offends an entire group of people who cannot do anything about their disabilities, much as a black person cannot change the color of their skin.

Stupid vs. retarded? Nope, not seeing how it's the same at all.

Maybe *I'm* the asshat because I don't see anything wrong with referring to Connor as having special needs in one sentence and saying that my DD Audrey is special to me in another. Special, in reference to Connor, isn't being used as an insult.

Really Red...you don't see a very true connection to actual stupidity and mental retardation/handicap? People who are truly stupid, majority of the time is because of a disability. That could be either a learning disability or something else. I am surprised you don't realize that. But, really, stupid is so culturally accepted as what is is used as that most don't. Which is my point of retard to some people. Using retard and stupid are similar to me. Both generally do not apply to people who embody the true definition, but in description of a person or event that fits the slang.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Outside of this board, people generally do not care if you use retard, many people do and don't mean it to be offensive to handicap people.
IME, people just don't speak up IRL. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're not offended. As I said earlier, it was IRL (in 1978 or 1979) that I learned that it was offensive. The person who told me was like a second mother to me. I seriously doubt she would have spoken up to someone to whom she didn't feel was like a daughter to her.

[Indigo]

Have you always had that avatar or did I just notice it?

Well, not always, but yes I have had it since the last board change.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Aeon, I do see how "stupid" could be similar, but I don't see it as quite as bad because it has other meanings as well. Regardless, I try to use "ignorant" instead of "stupid" since ignorance can be changed.

[Aeonkat]

IME, people just don't speak up IRL. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're not offended. As I said earlier, it was IRL (in 1978 or 1979) that I learned that it was offensive. The person who told me was like a second mother to me. I seriously doubt she would have spoken up to someone to whom she didn't feel was like a daughter to her.


That could very well be true. More times than not...people in my age group or younger will use that and other words that would be frowned upon here. Just like using the n-word in rap nowadays is ok. Generations take words and make them their own and I think retard and gay are some of them. I'm not saying using any of them or any insults for that matter is right, just that it is acceptable and normal to some.

[Aeonkat]

Aeon, I do see how "stupid" could be similar, but I don't see it as quite as bad because it has other meanings as well. Regardless, I try to use "ignorant" instead of "stupid" since ignorance can be changed.


Remember in Forrest Gump when the girl called Forrest stupid? Perfect example on how they are linked. And yes, while not the same clinical term as retardation, but it was originated as a way to describe the handicap so I see it one and the same.

[Indigo]

As much as I hate to say it, Janie has a point in regards to using cunt or pussy as an insult. It's insulting to women.

Just as dick or cock would be to men, but I don't see this as insulting women so much as cunts, pussies, cocks, or dicks, or tits, or assholes...

While my cunt and asshole are powerful entities they are incapable of taking insult.

[Aeonkat]

Just as dick or cock would be to men, but I don't see this as insulting women so much as cunts, pussies, cocks, or dicks, or tits, or assholes...

While my cunt and asshole are powerful entities they are incapable of taking insult.


Yep. I agree. Just pointing out a point. heh.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm not saying using any of them or any insults for that matter is right, just that it is acceptable and normal to some.
...which is why I don't agree with people jumping on someone right off the bat who uses the word. However, I do think it's okay to tell the person that the word is offensive and why, and I think it's best for the person not to use it in the future in that company.

My language changes depending on the particular group of people I'm with at the time. I cuss around some and not around others. I tell certain jokes around some that I don't around others. Dh and I come from two entirely different cultural backgrounds, and we make fun of both. However, I try not to say or do these things in front of people I know I'd hurt or offend.

[Prisca]

IME, people just don't speak up IRL. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're not offended. As I said earlier, it was IRL (in 1978 or 1979) that I learned that it was offensive. The person who told me was like a second mother to me. I seriously doubt she would have spoken up to someone to whom she didn't feel was like a daughter to her.


I agree. My mother was always pretty picky about such insults.

And my friend who burst into tears over the word "retard" was just last month, and her response was heartbreaking, but don't think she ran around flaunting her hurt. She went straight home to cry in peace.

It can and does hurt people, and I do see it IRL. And I think it affects people more,not less IRL. The people on this board, didn't just start making up random rules one day. They are based on the feelings of real live people.

[Indigo]

You're right, Aeon. One kingdom at a time, my friend.

And if you read further, you'll see I retracted "whore". Even though, as pointed out later, being a whore is a choice. Being mentally retarded is most definitely not.


Yes I fully agree with what is choice being fair game, while things like race, disability, and gender not so much.

[Aeonkat]

...which is why I don't agree with people jumping on someone right off the bat who uses the word. However, I do think it's okay to tell the person that the word is offensive and why, and I think it's best for the person not to use it in the future in that company.

My language changes depending on the particular group of people I'm with at the time. I cuss around some and not around others. I tell certain jokes around some that I don't around others. Dh and I come from two entirely different cultural backgrounds, and we make fun of both. However, I try not to say or do these things in front of people I know I'd hurt or offend.


I completely agree and noticed you were not the one flipping out at the op. Communication and human relations are tough. :)

[JudyJudyJudy]

I agree. My mother was always pretty picky about such insults.

And my friend who burst into tears over the word "retard" was just last month, and her response was heartbreaking, but don't think she ran around flaunting her hurt. She went straight home to cry in peace.

It can and does hurt people, and I do see it IRL. And I think it affects people more,not less IRL. The people on this board, didn't just start making up random rules one day. They are based on the feelings of real live people.
When I was growing up, I often heard people making fun of " crazy" people. I never spoke up. I just hurt inside and never even let them know that my mother was mentally ill.

Having said that, the use of the word " crazy" doesn't bother me since it has so many meanings. However, actually making fun of people with mental illness or using terms like "schizo" does bother me.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Really Red...you don't see a very true connection to actual stupidity and mental retardation/handicap? People who are truly stupid, majority of the time is because of a disability. That could be either a learning disability or something else. I am surprised you don't realize that. But, really, stupid is so culturally accepted as what is is used as that most don't. Which is my point of retard to some people. Using retard and stupid are similar to me. Both generally do not apply to people who embody the true definition, but in description of a person or event that fits the slang.

I'm sorry, I don't see stupid and retard in the same sense, at all. And yes, I do realize that some who seem 'stupid' could very well have a disability that may or may not be diagnosed. I do realize that and feel a bit insulted that you don't think that I know that. ;) But just as often, someone doing stupid shit is just doing stupid shit, KWIM?

But again, I cannot agree that the terms are interchangable. And even in my small town, people get offended when someone used retarded as an insult, so I don't think one can say that those on these boards are the only ones offended by it.

[Indigo]

How about asshole? That's an equal opportunity insult, no? Douchebag?

Piss infested cum bubble?


BTW

Crazy is not an actual diagnosis. Schizo is. There is a difference.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Communication and human relations are tough. :)
Yep, and I'm sure I slip up at times.

[Indigo]

I saw. :) I just typed slow in comparison to the movement of this thread.

Judy, we will have to agree to disagree. Retards (gosh I hate using that word to describe handicap people so I won't anymore other than here where it is needed to be) were not enslaved and had their rights taken away. It's not a hateful word. the n-word is purely hateful, retard is not imo. People who use retard generally don't have hate for the actual handicap community. The people who use the n-word in a angry/insulting manner, generally do.

They were mass institutionalized ans sterilized, not quite the same but bad enough.

[pawprint]

When I was growing up, I often heard people making fun of " crazy" people. I never spoke up. I just hurt inside and never even let them know that my mother was mentally ill.

Having said that, the use of the word " crazy" doesn't bother me since it has so many meanings. However, actually making fun of people with mental illness or using terms like "schizo" does bother me.


See I don't ever think of crazy as mentally ill. It's not a diagnosis so much as a state of mind. I may say my MIL is crazy- but I don't mean mentally ill. I think her actions are a little out there though, kwim? Possibly a cultural/regional thing? I also say the prices of things are crazy! lol.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Dammit, I keep forgetting to hit refresh before I hit submit. Ignorant, yes, is usually a better choice than stupid, absolutely, Judy.

[JudyJudyJudy]

My great-grandmother was in an "asylum" for 53 years, at which time she died. :(

[Indigo]

I'm pretty sure it just was back a page or two. Actually it was "Word of Janie". I'm pretty sure the person who posted it meant stupid/ridiculous.

You are missing the point, this was to illustrate why That's so Gay or retarded or whatever is.

[JudyJudyJudy]

See I don't ever think of crazy as mentally ill. It's not a diagnosis so much as a state of mind. I may say my MIL is crazy- but I don't mean mentally ill. I think her actions are a little out there though, kwim? Possibly a cultural/regional thing? I also say the prices of things are crazy! lol.
No, that's not a regional thing. Using crazy like you're saying doesn't bother me at all, and I use it that way, too. That's why I said that using the term " crazy" doesn't bother me. What I meant earlier when I said that people were making fun of " crazy" people was that they were using the term " crazy" to refer to people who were truly mentally ill and were making fun of them; that bothered me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I would edit my last post, but someone might post in between, so I won't.

I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite, though, because my siblings and I used to make jokes about "the people" (the voices to whom Mama talked), but I think it was our way of dealing with things.

[RedheadbyChoice]

But Judy, did you make those jokes to others, making fun of those who heard voices? Or merely to each other, in order to cope with life?

[JudyJudyJudy]

But Judy, did you make those jokes to others, making fun of those who heard voices? Or merely to each other, in order to cope with life?
Just to each other. We used to ride on the back of the truck, and I remember we would pretend that we were throwing "the people" (actually, we spoke pretty incorrectly and said "them people" :p) off the back of the truck. Other times, though, it was more like jokes, but, again, it was just among ourselves.

[Tiffers]

They were mass institutionalized ans sterilized, not quite the same but bad enough.


And killed, too.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Ok, well, I'm sure she does. She has been saying negative things about the people at my board for quite awhile. For as much as you all complain when people paint a broad brush about a group of people, she sure does that. It isn't true.

Just like it wasn't true when I called you all a bunch of crusty curmudgeons.

Actually this is the first time I've mentioned your board.

[Babyblue]

Speaking of "flaunting" religious beliefs, I suspect there are Christians who wish people like Janie wouldn't flaunt their Christianity and then defend using such insults as "retarded."


as a christian I am humilated and disgusted by the things janie says. I havent gotten that far in pages but it makes me truely wonder how someone can act like she does and think the world should bow down to her glory.

janie, I dont care who you are and what you think of what I say, you are a miserable excuse for a human being and an extreamly poor example of what it means to be christian.

[JudyJudyJudy]

For Aeon and anyone else who is interested, this entire article is interesting, but I quoted parts of it. If one is aware of any of this, I don't see how he/she could argue that people with mental retardation weren't treated as badly as black people. I don't really see why it has to be a competition when the treatment was so horrible.

http://www.ahrcnyc.org/pdf/chapter1_history.PDF

Although the construct of mental retardation is a relatively new one, there have of course been persons with this condition from antiquity. And, while our historical understanding of these persons treatment is quite limited by lack of evidence, it is known that people with handicapping conditions occupied the following kinds of 'deviant' statuses in European and American societies: object of dread, object of ridicule, changeling, evil/possessed person, sub-human organism, diseased organism, eternal child, and holy innocent (see Wolfensberger, 1972). While the dominant status in contemporary society was, and remains to some degree, that of diseased organism (the so-called "medical model"), all of the above ways of perceiving persons with mental retardation still exist in various degrees in contemporary society, and continue to influence our treatment of these people and their families. They are 'historical ghosts' that still inhabit our thinking and behaviors even though we scarcely understand them or their origin.


Initially 'institutions,' 'schools,' or 'colonies,' as they were originally called, operating under a philosophy of treatment and training, attempted to provide relatively normal living conditions, educate residents, and provide opportunities for them to work on grounds if they were not released. These places were not simply dumping grounds that we associate with institutions in the 20th century. But over time their character changed for the worse. There were several reasons for this including the invention of the philosophy of eugenics in the latter part of the 19th century. This philosophy combined the religious tradition of degenerationism (that people with disabilities were marks of evil and sin) with the sciences of genetics and evolution. What emerged was a kind of social Darwinism that saw the evils of society as genetically based. Mental deficiency, criminality and delinquency, prostitution, and alcoholism were seen to result from the defective genes of the individuals. This led to a movement of sterilization of mentally defective persons, especially women, thatwas strongly advocated by medicine and government (for example, Oliver Wendell Holmes was a strong advocate of sterilization). Indeed, sterilization was presented to the public as a humane way to address these social problems. This is especially true considering that the other part of the eugenics program was a euthanasia movement advocating the killing of mentally defective babies and children. In Germany, euthanasia became official medical policy sometime around 1920, and was openly taught and practiced in medical establishments of all types (see especially Friedlander, 1996; Wolfensberger, 1981). But in the United States, while euthanasia never became official medical policy, it was practiced and openly advocated. Martin Pernick's 1996 book The Black Stork describes the Baby Bollinger case of 1915 and the efforts of Dr. Harry Haiselden, including the making of a feature length film "The Black Stork," to institute the medical practice of euthanizing children with disabilities. The euthanasia movement in the United States was not a lunatic fringe movement. It was well-publicized in newspapers and media, and strongly promoted by professionals. This can be better appreciated when one considers that during World War II, the American Psychiatric Association published a lead editorial of their journal that endorsed the legal euthanasia of mentally retarded children and the provision of psychotherapy to parents to relieve them of their guilt (Wolfensberger, 1981).

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I'm pretty sure it just was back a page or two. Actually it was "Word of Janie". I'm pretty sure the person who posted it meant stupid/ridiculous.

Actually, no. You made a remark about the way things are in your mind, except that you attached it to the rest of us.

I simply pointed out that your viewpoint is simply one of many. You truth isn't my truth.

[bocarioja]

as a christian I am humilated and disgusted by the things janie says. I havent gotten that far in pages but it makes me truely wonder how someone can act like she does and think the world should bow down to her glory.

janie, I dont care who you are and what you think of what I say, you are a miserable excuse for a human being and an extreamly poor example of what it means to be christian.

ITA. I had a response typed out for her first response to this thread, but I concluded my rational and common sense response wasn't worth the time it took it hit reply.

[pawprint]

as a christian I am humilated and disgusted by the things janie says. I havent gotten that far in pages but it makes me truely wonder how someone can act like she does and think the world should bow down to her glory.

janie, I dont care who you are and what you think of what I say, you are a miserable excuse for a human being and an extreamly poor example of what it means to be christian.


Bravo!

[Tiffers]

As a future special education teacher, advocate for children with special needs, a mother of a child with special needs, and just a decent human being - the ignorance in this thread makes me want to fucking puke.

Red, I am so sorry. I can see how much you are hurt over this hateful, insulting and ignorant bullshit and I just want to hug you through my computer screen.

[_Tonks_]

I'm not reading past page 3. It is very upsetting. I work with mentally disabled people. The woman I work with has heard everyone since she was little decribe her with having mental retardation and being mentally retarded. She knows what she can do and enjoys working hard and using her brain. So if someone says to someone else in front of her your so stupid your retarded. How should that make her feel or does she not have feelings. There are other words i'm so glad most people don't say anymore. Those are hurtful too. And no not just to the individuals their family, friends and co-worker. I am not coming back to this thread but I just wanted to say my piece.

[janie]

as a christian I am humilated and disgusted by the things janie says. I havent gotten that far in pages but it makes me truely wonder how someone can act like she does and think the world should bow down to her glory.

janie, I dont care who you are and what you think of what I say, you are a miserable excuse for a human being and an extreamly poor example of what it means to be christian.Well why the heck don't you just get out the electric chair now? Again, I have to take this all into context. Your insult is perfectly acceptable on this board. After all, you have a fan club AND if two or more gather in agreement of said insult, it seems to be acceptable.

I'd like you to tell me exactly what I said that wasn't Christian like. Without someone else telling you what to say, give it a try.

I would never tell anyone that they were a miserable excuse for a human being. You think I'm offended? You bet I am. But honestly, I think I feel more sorry for you than anything. We all have our weaknesses, we all have our strengths.

[janie]

Bravo!I pose the exact same question to you. What did I say EXACTLY to be awarded the miserable excuse for a human being badge?

[Sadalsuud]

I'm a bit late with this, but...IMO, just about any term that has been used to de-humanize any group, be it ethnicity, handicap or gender, and is used in place of "stupid" is insulting. Whether or not the word started out that way.

I don't generally use the term "whore" as an insult. However, unless a person is mentally ill, being a whore is a choice; being retarded is not.

Not all whores are whores by choice. I'm using the whore more or less equals prostitute (women who have sex for money) definition. I don't think there is a single country in this world where women/girls/boys aren't forced into prostitution and that every whore/prostitute in the country is one by choice.

I think the only term I don't have issue with is crazy. I've been known to say that the gas prices are just crazy. I'm no stranger to mental illness either. Though my experiences may not have been as bad as other's, I've not come away unscathed. My dad is a combat vet with PTSD, and Agent Orange induced brain damage. I spent many of my weekends growing visiting him when he'd been admitted to the psych ward of the VA, which he affectionately called the "nut ward", (yes, I realize is offensive to many). We didn't consider it a derogatory term, that is just what they (Dad and his combat buddies) called it. I remember seeing one of his buddies fighting for 100% disability, and tried proving just how crazy he was by (Warning!) poking out his right eye and eating it. I don't remember if he got his disability or not. Another of his friends who is like a second father to me developed Schizophrenia after being a medic for two tours. I also remember my dad flipping out and yelling at the "Charlies" in Vietnamese. Of his nightmares waking us all up when he'd shout, "No! Shoot the other one! THE OTHER ONE!" My dad is crazy. Or actually, my dad isn't crazy, his problems are.

Though, my dad isn't the only one to suffer in our family. I was dx'd with depression at age 9, my sister at 12 (later re-dx'd as bipolar). My mom has depression and I'm afraid that she's developing some sort of dementia. Her mom (my maternal gramma) has Alzheimer's and my Granny (paternal gramma) has dementia. I'm not even going to list off aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.

[pawprint]

Unless BabyBlue has changed her name I haven't the vaguest idea who she is and was unaware of any fan club. (If you ARE someone I know- I'm sorry! lol.)

[janie]

Actually this is the first time I've mentioned your board.No, it isn't. There was a thread about it before where you echoed similiar sentiments. But all of that was deleted with the board crash.

Either way, what you said wasn't true.

[pawprint]

See I think of whores as lots of rampant destructive sex without pay. For pay is a prostitute. Just my opinion.

[janie]

Actually, no. You made a remark about the way things are in your mind, except that you attached it to the rest of us.

I simply pointed out that your viewpoint is simply one of many. You truth isn't my truth.I said that you were hypocritical in your viewpoint. That is the truth.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I pose the exact same question to you. What did I say EXACTLY to be awarded the miserable excuse for a human being badge?
You didn't deserve that.

[Sadalsuud]

See I think of whores as lots of rampant destructive sex without pay. For pay is a prostitute. Just my opinion.

Ah, ok. Most of the online dictionaries use prostitute as the definition for whore. That is just what I was using :D I don't get out much, lol, so there are a lot of terms that I've never heard before, or words whose meanings have shifted and catch me totally off guard.

[dalurker]

The ONLY people who care are those that somehow care about your soul, like your aunt.


I've seen some ugly stuff here on both sides, but that is an example of what I think is unChristianlike behavior since you're asking, though it's not me you're asking. I thought that was pretty belittling, frankly. It comes out sounding like, "Christians don't care about you" and the "somehow" in the rest of it reads like Judy isn't worthy of the care that her aunt "somehow" manages to display.

I'm not a person who seeks offense and I'm not personally offended by that nor do I try to hold Christians to some ridiculously high standard, believing we are all human with flaws, but I do believe that to be a very unChristianlike thing to tell someone.

I will agree that some of the insults hurled at you are uncalled for.

[RedheadbyChoice]

You didn't deserve that.

ITA.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I agree as well.

[hotlama]

Ok, it took me while to get through the 24 pages on this thread but I wanted to make sure I read everything before I posted again. I truly am sorry that this thread got spun so far out of control. I think that we can all get caught up in the moment at times. The fact that we all know this forum is anonymous doesn't help. I am guilty of saying things anonymously online that I would never say IRL. I should have sent the OP a private message instead of saying what I said in the thread itself. I'm sorry that I offended anyone. I hope that I'm not going to be banished from this site for one post. This really is the best breastfeeding group I have found.

[janie]

I've seen some ugly stuff here on both sides, but that is an example of what I think is unChristianlike behavior since you're asking, though it's not me you're asking. I thought that was pretty belittling, frankly. It comes out sounding like, "Christians don't care about you" and the "somehow" in the rest of it reads like Judy isn't worthy of the care that her aunt "somehow" manages to display.

I'm not a person who seeks offense and I'm not personally offended by that nor do I try to hold Christians to some ridiculously high standard, believing we are all human with flaws, but I do believe that to be a very unChristianlike thing to tell someone.

I will agree that some of the insults hurled at you are uncalled for.I didn't mean that though. I said that the only reason Judy's aunt sends her those things is because she cares about her. I meant no sarcasm there at all.

Now the rest of the post might have been a little spiteful on my part, but I honestly believe her aunt cares for her. In other words, if I started sending Sasha Bible verses in pms, it would be out of spite. But I don't think that is why her aunt is doing it.

[RedheadbyChoice]

I didn't mean that though. I said that the only reason Judy's aunt sends her those things is because she cares about her. I meant no sarcasm there at all.

Now the rest of the post might have been a little spiteful on my part, but I honestly believe her aunt cares for her. In other words, if I started sending Sasha Bible verses in pms, it would be out of spite. But I don't think that is why her aunt is doing it.

And therein lies the problem, and I'm thinking why Judy posted this to start; she knows her aunt cares for her, but because she feels she cannot tell them of her belief system, she keeps getting emails like this, that she'd rather not have in her inbox.

[dalurker]

Ok, then maybe I misperceived. With no tone to gauge it, it just looked kind of spiteful.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Exactly, Red. I also wish I thought my aunt would still accept me if she knew I didn't believe.

[JudyJudyJudy]

dalurker, I took it the same way you did. I'm glad Janie clarified.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Ok, it took me while to get through the 24 pages on this thread but I wanted to make sure I read everything before I posted again. I truly am sorry that this thread got spun so far out of control. I think that we can all get caught up in the moment at times. The fact that we all know this forum is anonymous doesn't help. I am guilty of saying things anonymously online that I would never say IRL. I should have sent the OP a private message instead of saying what I said in the thread itself. I'm sorry that I offended anyone. I hope that I'm not going to be banished from this site for one post. This really is the best breastfeeding group I have found.

Banished? Not at all and certainly not warranted. How posters perceive you, because you have no problem using and hearing the word retarded? Knowing how it affects people? I'll go with very probably.

[janie]

Exactly, Red. I also wish I thought my aunt would still accept me if she knew I didn't believe.It's a tough decision. If she really believed what she was sending you, she'd love you still. But nobody can answer that for you except your aunt.

Heck, I know you're an atheist, I barely know you, and even I like you.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Exactly, Red. I also wish I thought my aunt would still accept me if she knew I didn't believe.

I'm sorry too,, Judy. :hug: Families are hard, aren't they?

[RedheadbyChoice]

dalurker, I took it the same way you did. I'm glad Janie clarified.

Damn, but I feel a lovefest a'comin'. ;)

Clarification is almost always a good thing.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Heck, I know you're an atheist, I barely know you, and even I like you.
"bluehug"

[JudyJudyJudy]

Damn, but I feel a lovefest a'comin'. ;)

The board is going to be boring, isn't it? ;)

[Aeonkat]

The board is going to be boring, isn't it? ;)


LOL. Dammit. :p

[CatSoup]

You can say whatever you want,it's a free country,but don't expect to make friends on close-mindedness.

[CatSoup]

throwing insults is not going to make me anymore sorry than i am now. Im done with this thead.

<a href="http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn103/thisisonebigword/LOL%20Catz/?action=view&current=funny-pictures-angry-grey-cat-sulks.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn103/thisisonebigword/LOL%20Catz/funny-pictures-angry-grey-cat-sulks.jpg" border="0" alt="stuck-up kitty"></a>

I couldn't resist! :D

[winnie]

LOL I can think of many ass's the said brick can go up :)

[Aqua_Diamond]

Ok, it took me while to get through the 24 pages on this thread but I wanted to make sure I read everything before I posted again. I truly am sorry that this thread got spun so far out of control. I think that we can all get caught up in the moment at times. The fact that we all know this forum is anonymous doesn't help. I am guilty of saying things anonymously online that I would never say IRL. I should have sent the OP a private message instead of saying what I said in the thread itself. I'm sorry that I offended anyone. I hope that I'm not going to be banished from this site for one post. This really is the best breastfeeding group I have found.

That's the problem though. Being annonymous allows us to bring the worst of ourselves out more easily. We are less likely to edit what we say and more likely to be as honest as we want to, sometimes at the cost of others feelings.

I can't even count the # of times I have had a reply all typed out to threads on here and I delete it and move on. I'd say that the majority of the times it's because I've typed something that I know I don't really want to say. Other times, it's because I can't figure out the best way to say what I want to say.

Point being, sometimes it's best to just move on and not say anything at all. There are always people reading what we type. There may not be a face or a name to what we put out there, but we know we put it out there and we also know if by doing that we have offended or hurt someone.

Sorry in advance for spelling errors. I typed this out very quickly.

[Sunnie]

Watch your back. I used the term retarded once I was plastered by everyone being against it. I guess your allowed to write ***** shit, and bitch on the bored but retarded just isn't accepted. It's kinda retarded but I guess thats just the way it is here.


Oh my fuck. You just don't get it, do you? by using "retarded" in place of stupid, you are putting down everyone out there who is mentally challenged.

[Sunnie]

Double wow.

Hotlama I'm truly am shocked and flabbergasted, seeing this from you. Makes me feel like the 'oh Connor's cute' that you've given me on picture threads was in the ball park of a pity fuck.

Damn.


What's the code for the damned huggy smilie?