needing bf support (again)

[breastisbest]

hi, please bear with me if you are reading this.... i am discouraged to even have to be posting this bc most women at my stage of feeding are over these issues.

i am still trying to gain confidence with breastfeeding. i know, it sounds impossible at 7 months.... i had breast surgery 5 years ago and am always worried that my LO isnt getting enough.

she is having 4-5 wet diapers per day. i wanted to ask--can i count the morning one as two if it is very wet/heavy and i havent changed her in 10 hours? for example- i will change her at 9pm and then not until maybe 8 or 9 am. it's wets per 24hour period so i thought this would be okay.

DD is gaining. she only gained 9 oz from 6-7 months though...however, she remains right at her curve, the 25thcentile. does this mean she is def fine? i am not fishing for false compliments, honestly i am not. i really need reassurance, more than the average bf mom bc of my surgery.

Also, LO will only nurse for 2-3 mins sometimes and not swallowing that entire time either. that is what really really makes me have doubts. she will continue to suck but not swallow and i will do breast compressions but they dont make her swallow, so i just stop. this is what really makes me wonder. sometimes she'll pull and struggle to get more, sometimes she'll just fall asleep and others she'll just come off. i dont know if she still wants more some of those times or not. i have no idea what she is taking in but it just cant be much in that short of a time....can it?

i feel so sad today. i just need some help.

[KerryS]

What have her weights been, and her ages at those weights?

I understand the continued concerns about getting enough, examining every diaper, etc. I do that too and I think I will probably always do it.

[Stephanie]

It sounds like you are doing just fine. I would probably count a soaking wet diaper as 2 pees. She may be peeing once in the middle of the night and once after she wakes up.

If she is gaining, you know she is getting milk. Often, the rate of gaining will decrease as mobility increases. I know, for my children, they gained very little weight from 6-12 months.

She may just be getting efficient at nursing. As long as she is peeing, you can be assured that she is getting something. She could be nursing for comfort, and not drinking a lot of milk at that time.

You are doing great mama. There is nothing wrong with coming here for a little encouragement. We all need it from time to time.

[breastisbest]

i dont know the exact date of her weights but i know they were always a month apart bc i have been diligent about weighing her often including the montly birthdays. all wts were done naked and same scales as indicated.

on mw scale:

birth 7lbs
birth + 3 days 6lbs 7 oz
birth + 2 weeks 7lbs 4 oz
6 wks 9lbs 5 oz

on MD scale:

2 months 10lbs 1/2 oz
3 months 11lbs 8oz
4 months 12lbs 12 oz
5 months 14lbs 2 oz
6 months 15lbs
7 months 15lbs 9 oz

stephanie, thank you for being very supportive and for not making me feel stupid for posting.

[breastisbest]

kerryS
do you seriously still examine each diaper? i thought i was the only one. do you ever feel stressed out like you wont make the daily quota? how old is your LO? i'm hoping you will post about why you do this and how you feel about it bc i feel like i am literally going crazy with worry and that my DD is going to be negatively affected by this.

[KerryS]

Did you know that once a baby hits about 6 months, their weight gain slows down quite a bit? At that age, typical weight gain is 2-4 oz/week. If she gained 9 oz. in one month, that's actually right on target for what she should be gaining (which is why she's staying at the same percentile).

FWIW, 4-5 wet diapers per day are SOPPING wet, not just a little wet. So a very wet morning diaper would still count as one. For an idea of what "sopping wet" feels like, pour 4-6 TBSP of water in a diaper.

[KerryS]

kerryS
do you seriously still examine each diaper? i thought i was the only one. do you ever feel stressed out like you wont make the daily quota? how old is your LO? i'm hoping you will post about why you do this and how you feel about it bc i feel like i am literally going crazy with worry and that my DD is going to be negatively affected by this.

Yes, I still do. My baby is almost 4 months old, and we had a really rocky start with breastfeeding and low supply. I was never able to develop a full milk supply, so I supplement about half of his nutrition. Even though he's getting enough supplement to grow at the appropriate rate, I STILL feel every diaper when I change him to make sure it's full, and I still examine the color and give a sniff to see how strong/concentrated the urine is. My husband thinks I'm insane.

We also have done weekly weight checks at the hospital since nearly birth, and I've JUST given those up. I have a very love/hate relationship with the scale. I feel like I NEED the validation, but the stress I feel as I put him on the scale and wait for the numbers to appear is SO horrible. It's like a huge pit in my stomach. So I decided after last week that I'm not doing them any more (his weight gain has been on target for the past month) and will only weigh him at well baby checks and when the home health nurse comes out once a month.

I have a feeling that I will ALWAYS stress about whether he's getting enough from me for as long as we breastfeed. I've actually gotten a lot better in the past month since we started supplementing a constant amount each day*. Before that, I was considering going on anti-anxiety medication because I was starting to become obsessive about it, which was making everyone around me miserable, and it was starting to affect my relationship with my baby. Thankfully it's gotten a LOT better the past month.

* Please understand that I'm not suggesting you start supplementing. It sounds like you guys are doing just fine and your baby's growing appropriately. My situation is different in that the supplementation was medically necessary for appropriate growth.

[breastisbest]

you and i sound REALLY similar. i honestly can completely 100% empathize with how you feel with those weight checks and that darn scale. i have the exact same feelings and we did weekly weight checks until 4 months or so as well...and i would have near panic attacks on the day of and day before the weight check. if it wasnt enough weight gained then i would cry and feel like a complete failure. actually i gave the weekly checks up about the same time bc i remember i didnt weigh her again until her 5 month bday. i knew i'd feed her as much as psosible regardless of what the scale said and it was makign me crazy so...i just had to let it go.

which percentile is your baby in? so your LO wasnt gaining the minimum amt of weight and you had to supplement?

i know exactly what you mean about the diaper examination. i just feel their weight and if they are heavy enough as per the test diapers that i make every once in a while. my husband probably thinks i am nuts as well esp when he sees me pour tbsp of liquid into a dry, perfectly good diaper but he keeps it to himself bc i am sure he doesnt think i could handle any criticism about it. when i asked if i could count the morning one as double, it is bc it probably contains 8-12tbsp of liquid, it is huge. i thought i could count it as two bc of this. no?

i feel so much guilt and regret over the surgery, some days i think i can barely go on. i know you said you started to feel better and were worried before that about your relationship with your LO. i feel the same way. i just can not find a balance somehow..i cant seem to relax and just trust in my body bc i have had surgery and i have no idea how to handle the stress anymore. that is why i post on here, hoping to find help, encouragement and understanding. i really appreciate your posts.

[KerryS]

i know exactly what you mean about the diaper examination. i just feel their weight and if they are heavy enough as per the test diapers that i make every once in a while. my husband probably thinks i am nuts as well esp when he sees me pour tbsp of liquid into a dry, perfectly good diaper but he keeps it to himself bc i am sure he doesnt think i could handle any criticism about it. when i asked if i could count the morning one as double, it is bc it probably contains 8-12tbsp of liquid, it is huge. i thought i could count it as two bc of this. no?

OMG, you are like my long lost twin. I get the same odd looks from my husband when I occasionally make a "test diaper" to remind myself of what "sopping wet" feels like! And yes, he's learned to just keep his mouth shut about "wasting a perfectly good diaper."

He's not on the chart as far as percentile. He's below the 5th, but now is gaining at an appropriate rate (8 oz/week) so he's staying on his growth curve, not falling lower. So I'm okay with that. He didn't regain birthweight until 5 weeks old, and then he had several weeks where he either stalled in weight gain or lost a couple ounces. That's when we started supplementing. First I was supplementing with what I could pump between feedings (only about 4 oz/day), and when that wasn't enough, I started supplementing with formula as well. We did that for about three weeks, then I was able to find donor breastmilk, and now we supplement with that instead of formula. He gets 12 oz/day of donor milk, so he gets about half of what he needs from me. All of his supplement is given at the breast with a tube, so the only time he gets bottles is when I'm at work.

I wish I had a great answer on how to relax and trust your body. I have the same problem - I feel like my body has totally betrayed me. I nursed two other babies with NO problems whatsoever, so I was not expecting my boobs to misbehave this time. It was devestating when I realized that I wasn't able to make enough for him.

The only suggestion I have is to realize, based on the hard numbers, that he IS getting enough. The numbers don't lie, and if the scale says he's gaining, then you can be assured that whatever you're doing is working for you.

ETA: If you think that first morning diaper is really about twice what a normal "sopping wet" diaper would be, then by all means, I think it's safe to count it as two wet diapers.

[breastisbest]

i'm glad you found a donor. i can understand how you feel betrayed by your body, esp having nursed other children. do they have any idea what went wrong this time around? i dont mean to make you feel bad by asking this....however, i had read that a mom makes more milk with subsequent pregnancies. maybe i am mistaken. whatever the case, you have the sitaution you have but on the bright side, your LO is still getting all bm and AT the breast with the SNS. we could never get that to work for us. DD hated it. :(

i know the cuase of my problems and knowing it was the surgery that i had, just eats me up inside bc nursing means so much to me. i never expected it to..i obviously i had no idea how i'd feel about nursing a baby but i really do beat myself up bc i should have thought about it more, should have consulted more people about it. it just wanst really on my radar screen. if i coudl change one thing in my life, it would be that, a million times over. nothing else even comes close.

when you say you were devestated to find out you couldnt prodcue all that your baby needed, i can compeltely understand. i am very hesitant to have another baby bc of this issue. i wishi had a crystal ball to tell me it woudl be better the next time around. i was kind of banking on that more milk the second time around but maybe that isnt the case. there is no guarentee anyway.

[whitnessforhim]

Wow ladies I just had to issue out some :hug: :hug:
It seems like both of you have really been dealing with some serious stress. I just wanted to say that both your LO's are so lucky to have such dedicated mothers to nurse them and care for them. My hat goes off to the great job both of you are doing and my heart goes out to you both for having to deal with such stress.
Kerry-I never knew your whole story until now. I'm sorry it's been so hard this time around!

[Amy_G_]

you say your baby's weights are
2 months 10lbs 1/2 oz
3 months 11lbs 8oz
4 months 12lbs 12 oz
5 months 14lbs 2 oz
6 months 15lbs
7 months 15lbs 9 oz

A baby should gain between 1-2 lbs a month from birth to 6 months, and about a pound from 6-12 months with some wide variations.

your baby gained 3 ish pounds from birth to the first dr visit?
There was absolutely nothing wrong with that milk supply lady unless you were supplementing up a storm!
1 lb 6.5 ounces
1 lb 4oz
2 lb +
14 oz (almost a pound)
9oz (about half a pound)

If she's staying on about the same growth curve for weight, I would NOT stress out. And if she's growing in length I wouldn't panic either.

I'll tell ya that with both of mine, after 6 months their weight gain would stay almost the same for a couple months, just changing by mere ounces, but they'd get a lot longer. then they'd plump up and their weight would go up seemingly pounds over night. then their weight would stop for a month or two and they'd get longer.

My 8 year old is stuck at the same weight, with only a pound or so difference, but he keeps getting taller and taller and taller.

Relax a bit girl, you are going to give yourself ulcers!

[KerryS]

i'm glad you found a donor. i can understand how you feel betrayed by your body, esp having nursed other children. do they have any idea what went wrong this time around?

He was born a month early and spent a week in the NICU on a vent. I pumped during that time, but my milk was delayed in coming in (around day 4-5) and I was never able to pump very much. I was able to breastfeed him starting around day 8, and just quit pumping (big mistake) but he was small and weak and had a weak suck. I was monitoring wet and poopies, and he had *just* an adequate amount so I assumed everything was fine. We brought him back around 4 weeks for a weight check and he was still several ounces below birth weight (had not gained ANY weight from discharge from the hospital 2 1/2 weeks prior). I started pumping again and was only able to get about 15 ml at a time. I started supplementing him with that, but that wasn't enough as he continued to either stall, lose an ounce or two, or barely gain anything. So when he was about 9 weeks old we started supplementing with formula as well. I also started taking domperidone and herbs, and pumping several times a day in addition to nursing. After about three weeks on the formula, we were able to switch to donor breastmilk. I discovered right around this time that he has what's called a "bubble palate" which is a very narrow, high arched palate. When he latches, the nipple goes into that high arched area and he's not able to compress it adequately with his tongue, which prevents him from being able to get much milk. Unfortunately, the only thing that will improve this condition is time, which will allow him to get bigger and stronger, with a stronger suck.

So that's my story. :)