dad trying to support mom

[elee02]

Hi,

My wife is breastfeeding our newborn who's now 3 weeks old. He recently has started to just cry and cry. My wife is not getting enough sleep but there seems to be nothing that I can do. Any advice?

He's getting his share of dirty diapers and weight gain, so he's getting enough milk, but at the cost of no sleep for us or himself, I'm not sure what to do.

A typical feeding looks like this...

wake baby
feed for 4-6 minutes
he'll delatch
try to wake him.. blow on his face, tickle his feet.. usually the subtle ones don't work and we resort to changing his diaper
he'll then come back and maybe feed for 3-4 minutes
after that, he'll start crying and getting VERY fussy

We usually have to tolerate the fussiness for about 1-2 hours basically latching, relatching so that he gets 1-3 sucks of milk in before he cries again...

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

We've hired a local lactation consultant once already and she had said that our latch is good and the diapers double confirm that but I just need to find a way to get some support for my wife before she goes nuts. She's VERY CLOSE.

Forgot to add that due to the fussiness, he won't sleep either... and we cant determine if he's full/satisfied or not because he'll always take the breast if we offer it but will never drink for more than a minute or so before self delatching.


Thanks in advance

[RedheadbyChoice]

Does Mom have a sling? Sometimes many a babe just needs to be closer to mom, more of the time.

Does babe sputter and choke when letdown happens? What color is the poo, and what's its consistency? Green? Frothy? Mustard colored?

How often does babe nurse? Does she put babe back to the breast after that second session after the burp? What's babe's sleep pattern like lately?

Does Mom consume a lot of dairy? What about caffeine?

And congrats on your new baby, BTW. :) Sorry for all the questions, but more info will help us to help you.

~ginger

[elee02]

We have a sling but haven't been able to use it successfully yet, he's never calm enough to put in there. He's so fussy just in our hands, that we worry about him in a sling.

oes babe sputter and choke when letdown happens? What color is the poo, and what's its consistency? Green? Frothy? Mustard colored?

The poo is mustard color as the books/readings state.
We've had 2 green poos, but those were then followed by yellow/mustard poo right after. Consistency is like mustard with seeds, the 2 green poos seemed to be grainier.

He nurses every 2-3 hours, often one feeding running into the next.
We usually will not switch breasts until after the third latch, as he drinks at such small nursing periods (6min, 4min, 3min...) we want to make sure he got some hind milk.
Sleep Pattern.. here's a major concern! He doesn't have one. He used to sleep about 1-2 hours pending how long the feedings were, but now that the feedings are lasting about 2-3 hours, he's barely getting 30minutes of sleep at a time. He will still give us that 4-5hour window once in a while (maybe every other day), but we felt that's more because he's been so riled up for not sleeping all day that he just zonks out.

Mom has pretty much cut dairy from the diet since the 1st week, no milk, no cheese, no soy
She's also made a conscious effort to have no caffeine since pregnancy.

Thanks for the congrats... I'm more than willing to answer all questions because at this point, I'm out of ideas, and I feel like I can't help her at all.

[RedheadbyChoice]

Thanks for the congrats... I'm more than willing to answer all questions because at this point, I'm out of ideas, and I feel like I can't help her at all.

Sorry, I have to run, but will be back later (and I'm sure there will be more of our fabulous ladies to help you) but I just wanted to say that you're already helping her by supporting her breastfeeding efforts and not suggesting formula or bottles.

That, in and of itself, is such a big boost for moms. Trust that her body knows what to do and can do this. Not all babies are happy, though, in the early days. And that's those getting breastmilk and those getting formula, some babies just aren't happy being newborns. That's something to keep in the back of your mind as well.

So yeah, by getting on here and by encouraging her you ARE helping your wife. Big time.

~ginger

[whitnessforhim]

I'm really no expert and I'm sure other ladies more experienced than myself will chime in soon. But my first thought is maybe over active let-down?

You didn't answer if the baby chokes or sputters when let down happens? Sometimes if the milk is flowing to fast for the baby to handle that can cause them to pull off the breast and get frustrated.

[whitnessforhim]

Oh and like Red said some babies are just fussy and clingy...thats just who they are.

Here is a link about OALD:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

Does babe do any of those things?

[KerryS]

I'm really no expert and I'm sure other ladies more experienced than myself will chime in soon. But my first thought is maybe over active let-down?

You didn't answer if the baby chokes or sputters when let down happens? Sometimes if the milk is flowing to fast for the baby to handle that can cause them to pull off the breast and get frustrated.


My thoughts exactly.

[Nipple_nectar]

First off , thank you for being so supportive! These early weeks can be grueling for a BFing mom and the best you can do is help support her during this transition. A few suggestions might be doing all the bathing and diapering for baby, you can also become a world renown burping expert!

I honestly would not begin an elimination diet at this point. Too much research suggests that this is just baby ajusting to life outside of the womb and that is a huge transition.

Get yourself a copy ofHappiest baby on the block by Dr. Harvey Karp and this will help the both of you understand infant communication better.

If you are not savvy on a tight swaddle, get thee to Babies R Us or some big store and buy a velcro swaddle blanket, your baby needs to be swaddled for any rest to occur.

What is the sleeping situation right now? Are you co~sleeping? How close is baby to mom?

A typical feeding says you are waking baby~ I would not wake baby UNLESS you are experiencing weight gain issues. Certainly wake him during the day but get some sleep at night if he chooses a longer sleep cycle!

Babies tend to be mixed up about sleep cycles so allowing him to rest undisturbed at night and rousing him during the day by making noises and unwrapping him will usually do the trick.

It is great that you know about the hindmilk, another trick to helping baby empty the breast, is doing breast compression (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html).

It is perfectly normal for baby to want to nurse almost constantly right now, hang in there, it does get better.

Hopefully, your wife will be up to coming here herself as well, we welcome the both of you and we have plenty of support to go around! Come back often and give us an update~ we are always here:)

[Jacksmommy]

My first question is why are you waking the baby? If your wife has a good milk supply and fast flowing milk, maybe baby only needs to nurse for 5 minutes at a time. Mine would nurse for very short periods of time and then fall asleep. He'd wake up 30 minutes or an hour later (I held him this whole time, of course) and then he'd nurse again. He would do this most of the day, but when night came he would sleep for 5 hour blocks. I just had the type of baby who really needed to be at the breast most all of the time. A lot of newborns are this way. Maybe yours is fussy because he's tired and when he drifts off you wake him up. Babies will even nurse in their sleep if they're kept at the breast. Baby could nurse, drift off to sleep, and then during light sleep, latch back on and nurse some more. This is how my newborn loved to spend his days.

[elee02]

woops, I deleted the wrong quote.. the baby is not sputtering or choking, but we're not sure if the letdown is too fast or too slow or if its even related at all.

the 5s's seem to work, but not for long.. I'm able to use the shushing and the swaying to calm him down, but it doesn't seem to last...

the crib is pretty far from us, maybe like 10-15 feet, but we don't often put him in there until he's in a deep sleep. As of late, that's been pretty much never.

will reply againa fter reading the kellymom link... thanks again everyone

[elee02]

Just read the kellymom page and I'd say our baby only has maybe 2 of the symptoms

he's pulls off the breast often while nursing, but only during the later portion
and I associate the pulling off with a refusal to nurse
he is gassy, but doesn't really spit up all that much, maybe just enough to see the milk on his tongue and he'll spit that out sometimes, sometimes he'll just play with it.

I wouldn't say he dislikes comfort nursing, but it doesn't seem to be all that soothing anymore =(

[Nipple_nectar]

OOOh, you know the five S's~ most impressive!! What is the temperature like in the room? I ask because my smart little newborn was able to detect the temperature difference, the moment I took her from my bed to her own~ little stinker!

Are you swaddling then?

[elee02]

My first question is why are you waking the baby? If your wife has a good milk supply and fast flowing milk, maybe baby only needs to nurse for 5 minutes at a time. Mine would nurse for very short periods of time and then fall asleep. He'd wake up 30 minutes or an hour later (I held him this whole time, of course) and then he'd nurse again. He would do this most of the day, but when night came he would sleep for 5 hour blocks. I just had the type of baby who really needed to be at the breast most all of the time. A lot of newborns are this way. Maybe yours is fussy because he's tired and when he drifts off you wake him up. Babies will even nurse in their sleep if they're kept at the breast. Baby could nurse, drift off to sleep, and then during light sleep, latch back on and nurse some more. This is how my newborn loved to spend his days.

We got scared at the first green diaper.. it sorta came when we decided to let the baby fully dictate. Is it safe to risk something like that again? Will he wake more often due to hunger? My wife needs rest.. she's running on about 2-3hours rest a day.. not even sleep, just like 20minute naps here and there.

[Nipple_nectar]

The green diaper is not a huge deal if it is only occasionally, it merely tells you to nurse baby longer to allow for more hindmilk. Not getting the hindmilk is a problem for all sleepy newborns who tend to have a few sips and go back to bed. As your baby grows he will tolerate longer feedings and this all will fade quickly into the past, just hang in there and once baby is awake, try and keep him awake as long as possible by undressing, stroking with a wet cloth and saving the diaper change until baby has fallen asleep again to rouse him. Try burping him to wake him. The minute mine fell asleep, I passed him to dad and it was his job to wake baby up!

Are you at home full time to help mom? If so, how long? Is this your only child?

[elee02]

I'm still at work, but the job allows me to work at home twice a week which I thought would be a great help to her, but so far, its not doing much except for me being around.

We'll try the let the baby lead method again, hopefully the green diaper doesn't become consistent. Will report back

Thank you so much everyone.

[Amy_G_]

3 week growth spurt. baby will be a bit crankier than usual, not want to sleep, fuss a lot, want to nurse more. If mom has a great supply already, baby will possibly get overfull which will make him crankier. But if mom were to have a so-so supply, baby will work during this growth spurt time to up mom's supply with never ending nursing.

Don't wake the baby unless he's going longer than about 2-3 hours during the day, and at 3 weeks, longer than about 4-5 hours at night. You wake a baby if they are having weight gain issues, and you never mentioned weight at all if I'm correct? For green poop, you just keep em on one side for the whole feeding, instead of switching back and forth.

You never mention burping, and I'd recommend that as a possible fix. My youngest son was a very hard burper, but he really really really needed to burp to be happy. I'd have to sit him up--not over my shoulder--pat at his bum and slowly work my hand up his back towards his shoulders and then repeat. After about 100 of those repetitions he'd usually burp like a beer drinking old man, or I knew he didn't need to burp.

Make a couple of changes and see how it goes.

For mom getting some sleep, have her experiment with laying down nursing, even if you don't really want baby to co-sleep. If mom is close to the edge, it's most likely due to sleep deprivation. Once baby stops nursing, you leave mom laying down and go get baby, burp, diaper change, rock, whatever.

If she has an overactive let down, or just a high supply--baby may really want to comfort nurse, but he nurses, and he gets milk and he's already full so that pisses him off. I would honestly try a pacifier or your finger or thumb at this point to see if that makes him happier at the end of feedings.

[Nipple_nectar]

Please insist that your wife rest when baby is resting. She needs to forget about all the other household stuff for now. Since you are here, you know that BFing is going to have to be the central point of everything for now.

Hang in there!

[Jacksmommy]

We got scared at the first green diaper.. it sorta came when we decided to let the baby fully dictate. Is it safe to risk something like that again? Will he wake more often due to hunger? My wife needs rest.. she's running on about 2-3hours rest a day.. not even sleep, just like 20minute naps here and there.

Green poo, as others have said, just means baby was getting not enough hindmilk. Keeping him at the same breast longer will take care of that. Yes, he'll nurse more often if he gets less milk per feeding, but that's okay. Small frequent feedings are often what's best for newborns. Your wife needs to learn to nap when baby naps. Baby will nap at the breast. Co-sleeping (at least during the day) helps many new moms get much needed rest.

[StElmosFire]

:hug:

Thank you elee02 for being so supportive.

[Jmom1010]

I'm still at work, but the job allows me to work at home twice a week which I thought would be a great help to her, but so far, its not doing much except for me being around.

We'll try the let the baby lead method again, hopefully the green diaper doesn't become consistent. Will report back

Thank you so much everyone.


Just being home to comfort and support your wife is a great help. As your baby gets older baby will get better and better at nursing. Feeding will spread out a bit and you can feel more comfortable about letting the baby call the shots. Don't be surprised that some days baby will want to nurse alot more, these are normal growth spurts. They have big ones at 10 days, 3 weeks, 3 months and again at 6 months. There may be a few more in there that I have forgotten about. But unless you have a very sleepy baby that never wakes up to nurse and is losing weight and/or not making enough diapers you can always follow babies lead.

I'd try the sling again, maybe support his back at first while he is in there and sway him side to side. My son loved the sway action.

[vickikreiner]

Wow, what a concerned and wise Dad to ask for help/support.
I think it is especially hard for men who like to be able to "fix" things. It's difficult to fix things like nursing and child birth when you don't have a whole lot of control.
I applaud you, dad/husband.

I would suspect reflux, talk with Ped.
I would recommend hiring a postpatum Doula and get hooked up with local LLL.
I would also try cosleeping.

[Jacksmommy]

Will he wake more often due to hunger? My wife needs rest.. she's running on about 2-3hours rest a day.. not even sleep, just like 20minute naps here and there.


I've been thinking about my response to this question. I said he would nurse more frequently if he got less milk per feeding, but what I neglected to say was that it won't be all the time. Babies will cluster feed - nurse small amounts very frequently, and they will also go for longer periods between feedings if they are left to nurse when they want to. They won't nurse exactly every 2-3 hours per every 24 hours. This is why it's recommended to nurse on demand. It lets baby nurse when his body tells him to - not the clock. It makes for happier babies - less fussiness - better sleep. I really recommend it.

[elee02]

I want to thank everyone for the many ideas and thoughts that were provided. We believe (although still not 100% sure) that it is a fast letdown that's causing baby Evan's fussiness, so what we did was hand express some milk out for the first letdown and then feed. It's actually quite amazing how that first letdown squirts out instead of drips out.

He's still fussy now and then, but noticeably less than before. The only catch is night nursing where its difficult to express first then feed since we often rely on his whimpers and cries to wake us up to feed. It feels like a fine line to walk between getting enough time to hand express milk before he's fully crying for food.

Thank you everyone.

I have another question about baby alertness posted here:
http://www.breastfeeding.com/forums/showthread.php?p=458364#post458364

[Amy_G_]

Over time, she can probably stop hand expressing any milk as her supply regulates. milk supply is usually lowest at night, so that may help nightimes not be so difficult.
Also, as baby's get a bit older, they learn to handle a bigger supply without freaking out.