Please Help, Need to wean

[katiepatatie]

My son is almost 10 months old. We discovered two weeks ago that he has a severe allergy to cow's milk protein, (did allergy testing, and we carry an epi-pen). I must return to work when he is 11 months old, so I must wean him to soy formula, because the allergist told me that there isn't enough nutrients is soy beverage. The only problem is my son will not drink from a bottle, or a sippy cup. He will sip from a regular cup with us holding it, but that will just not get enough into him. I am at a loss for what to try to get him to take a bottle or sippy. Tonight I tried to hold the nipple of the bottle next to my nipple while nursing him, in the hopes that we could just switch but he knew the moment the bottle touched his lips. I am not sure if I should just cut him off of breastmilk so if he is hungry enough then he will have to take the bottle, or if there other options out there (because I would rather not do that to him unless I have no other choice.) By the way, he won't even take breastmilk from a bottle.

[Jacksmommy]

Why not pump and give him breastmilk in a sippy cup? Getting him to take a sippy cup just takes time. I like soft spout sippy cups. Make sure there is no spill proof insert in the cup. Babies learn pretty quickly how to use them. I would also recommend goats milk products for your son. I think he still has to be 12 months old for goats milk, but I'm not sure, it may be that he can have them sooner. My nephew is allergic to cow's milk and is just fine on goat's milk, goat's milk yogurt, and goat cheese. It's a great alternative to cow's milk products, and it's not hard to find.

[Jacksmommy]

A baby learning to take a sippy cup is no reason to stop breastfeeding. Don't cut him off from the breast to try to force him to take a cup or a bottle. That doesn't work. While he is still learning and getting used to a sippy cup, you can still nurse him as much as he needs. Even after he masters the cup, you can still nurse him whenever you are together. Nursing benefits toddlers as much as babies. Treat the cup as something fun for now and give him time. When you return to work, you can still nurse him before and after and in the night, and he can have solids in your absence while his caregiver also offers him a sippy cup.

[katiepatatie]

No, he cannot have goat's milk, as he is allergic to the protein in that too. I will have to keep him on soy formula until he is 2 yrs. The reason I am trying to get him to take a bottle or sippy is because my work schedule does not make it possible to nurse him before work, or to pump during the day, much less transport the pumped milk home. He will not take anything from a sippy or bottle, including breast milk. The other problem I have is with all the recalls on bottles with BPA, my choices are very limited. In addition, I am ready to stop nursing, which is a choice I have made, I nursed my daughter until her first birthday, and I have always planned on doing the same for my son.

[NickNAK]

The reason I am trying to get him to take a bottle or sippy is because my work schedule does not make it possible to nurse him before work, or to pump during the day, much less transport the pumped milk home.


What kind of job can a person have that prevents them from nursing before they go to work? If you leave early, you can nurse the baby while he is sleeping.

[katiepatatie]

I am very disappointed in this website, I went to this forum for help with my problem because I have had nowhere else to turn. I have talked to other moms in my community who had some advice that I tried but didn't work. I posted my problem really hoping that maybe someone out there would have some sound advice for me, but instead I get critisized and given poor advice (jacksmommy suggested I try goats milk, which could potentially kill my son as his allergy could be analphalactic, he is NOT simply lactose intolerant like so many people think) I have had a hell of a year on maternity leave with my son in and out of the hospital, a sick husband, and in the meantime trying to keep some kind of normal life for my 3 year. I am stressed so much about going back to work, so much so that it makes me sick to my stomach. I have had to search for an affordable childcare provider that is still willing to look after my son with his health issues, and staying home from work is NOT an option as I need the benefits to pay for my family's prescriptions and welfare is not an option. I was asking for help from other moms and instead I was critisized. Breastfeeding a toddler might be okay for some women out there but it is not for me and that is a decision I have made. I am sorry that I ever posted on this forum.

[Bama_5]

Katie,

I'm sorry you are disappointed. I'll be glad to comment tomorrow when I have more time to type. Making it 10 months with bf is a great accomplishment. I'd like to have a chance to help you if you want to check back in on another day, I'll try to reply tomorrow.

Bama_5

[Jacksmommy]

My son is almost 10 months old. We discovered two weeks ago that he has a severe allergy to cow's milk protein, (did allergy testing, and we carry an epi-pen). I must return to work when he is 11 months old, so I must wean him to soy formula, because the allergist told me that there isn't enough nutrients is soy beverage. The only problem is my son will not drink from a bottle, or a sippy cup. He will sip from a regular cup with us holding it, but that will just not get enough into him. I am at a loss for what to try to get him to take a bottle or sippy. Tonight I tried to hold the nipple of the bottle next to my nipple while nursing him, in the hopes that we could just switch but he knew the moment the bottle touched his lips. I am not sure if I should just cut him off of breastmilk so if he is hungry enough then he will have to take the bottle, or if there other options out there (because I would rather not do that to him unless I have no other choice.) By the way, he won't even take breastmilk from a bottle.


Okay, this was what I was responding to. You said your son was allergic to cow's milk protein - nothing in here about goat's milk. You also said you didn't want to just cut him off from nursing, so I thought you were looking to wean more gradually. I'm sorry you didn't like my advice, and I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner and that more people haven't replied. I imagine the holiday weekend has something to do with it. I'm sure you'll get more helpful advice soon.

[NickNAK]

I am very disappointed in this website, I went to this forum for help with my problem because I have had nowhere else to turn. I have talked to other moms in my community who had some advice that I tried but didn't work. I posted my problem really hoping that maybe someone out there would have some sound advice for me, but instead I get critisized and given poor advice (jacksmommy suggested I try goats milk, which could potentially kill my son as his allergy could be analphalactic, he is NOT simply lactose intolerant like so many people think) I have had a hell of a year on maternity leave with my son in and out of the hospital, a sick husband, and in the meantime trying to keep some kind of normal life for my 3 year. I am stressed so much about going back to work, so much so that it makes me sick to my stomach. I have had to search for an affordable childcare provider that is still willing to look after my son with his health issues, and staying home from work is NOT an option as I need the benefits to pay for my family's prescriptions and welfare is not an option. I was asking for help from other moms and instead I was critisized. Breastfeeding a toddler might be okay for some women out there but it is not for me and that is a decision I have made. I am sorry that I ever posted on this forum.

I am sorry that you feel slighted. No one suggested that you go on welfare, I don't know where you are coming from with all of that nonsense.

It seems to me from your words above that you really just came here looking for justification and when you didn't get that (you actually got great advice from caring women) you got angry.

This is a pro-breastfeeding site. You are, of course, going to receive advice that is pro-breastfeeding and should have expected that.

Your story is changing as you go. You are now saying that breastfeeding a toddler is not ok with you.

You did say cow's milk protein. So I don't see what about jacksmommy's post was not good advice. Goat's milk is not cow's milk.

We realize your child is not lactose intolerant, as lactose is one of the ingredients in breastmilk.

Hope whatever you decide it works out for you and your child.

[Jacksmommy]

I'm going to repeat my advice here about using a soft spout suppy cup without a spill proof insert. It's your best bet for getting your baby to take liquid from an artificial source. You just have to give him time to learn it and get good at it. Getting a 9 month old breastfed baby to suddenly take a bottle is about as likely as getting a 9 month old bottlefed baby to suddenly latch on to a breast. My baby never took bottles, but he learned how to use a cup very well, and it didn't take all that long - maybe a month. I just made sure it was available often, and there was no pressure about it. I tipped it to his mouth once so he could see how it worked. After that I just left it where he could reach it and do it himself. You have the added task of teaching him to like a new beverage, so I would think it would be best to go with small steps - a few sips here and there at first. Let him get used to the new taste. Hopefully he'll like it.

Also, if your son will sip a regular cup of soy milk now with you holding it then that's a good place to start. It's actually a good idea to give him time to like the drink and then introduce him to the new kind of cup. That way you're just working on one thing at a time. By the way - how well does he eat solids?

[Jacksmommy]

I am very disappointed in this website, I went to this forum for help with my problem because I have had nowhere else to turn. I have talked to other moms in my community who had some advice that I tried but didn't work. I posted my problem really hoping that maybe someone out there would have some sound advice for me, but instead I get critisized and given poor advice (jacksmommy suggested I try goats milk, which could potentially kill my son as his allergy could be analphalactic, he is NOT simply lactose intolerant like so many people think) I have had a hell of a year on maternity leave with my son in and out of the hospital, a sick husband, and in the meantime trying to keep some kind of normal life for my 3 year. I am stressed so much about going back to work, so much so that it makes me sick to my stomach. I have had to search for an affordable childcare provider that is still willing to look after my son with his health issues, and staying home from work is NOT an option as I need the benefits to pay for my family's prescriptions and welfare is not an option. I was asking for help from other moms and instead I was critisized. Breastfeeding a toddler might be okay for some women out there but it is not for me and that is a decision I have made. I am sorry that I ever posted on this forum.


I'm reading this again, and I just feel so bad for you. You sound so terribly stressed. I'm sorry. I've read every post on this thread now quite a few times, and I don't see anyone criticizing you at all, but I'm certainly sorry you feel that way.

[katiepatatie]

I have actually taken your advice about a soft spout sippy cup, and I thank you. Hopefully he will actually try bringing it to his mouth. I understand that this is a pro-breastfeeding website and I am completely pro-breastfeeding, but I cannot do it much longer. I think with the stress of everything I have this magic date in my mind and if he doesn't start drinking the formula by mid-August I don't know what I will do. I know that no one has suggested that I go on welfare, I was just stating that I don't have many options in terms of work. I wasn't looking for pity from anyone which is why I didn't say all the details in my original post, I was just looking for advice on the drinking formula issue. I get my back up, and get a little over-protective because some people are just crazy, I actually had one woman tell me that since he is allergic to dairy, then I need to put him on skim milk! My own pharmasist (who I now stopped dealing with) advised me, knowing his allergies, to feed him yogurt when he went on antibiotics so that he wouldn't get thrush, and some lady down the street from me told me to put facecloths soaked in milk on his eyes when he is have some allergic reactions. I went to a pharmacy (a different one) and spoke with this really great pharmacist about formula because I have never bought a can of it in my life (my daughter was weaned directly to cows milk in a sippy cup at 12 months). I had no idea that there were so many different ones to choose from and I was really overwhelmed with all the different options. And also, here in Canada (I'm not sure if they have done the same in the US) they have recalled almost all the plastic bottles because of the chemical BPA, so choices are very limited on different kinds of bottles. I decided to try a soft silicone spout sippy cup. By the way, no, my son does not eat much in terms of solids although he is getting better. When he had the original allergic reaction in mid-May, it turned him off of food for a couple of weeks and we had to start all over again with introducing foods to him. He will not eat any of the cereals, he just simply gags when it hits his throat. I am concerned about him getting enough iron as well.

[Amy_G_]

Was he tested for soy protein allergy?

Cause many babies that are allergic to cow's milk are also allergic to soy milk protein. I would make sure this is not an issue before going 100% soy.

If you've successfully breastfed for this long, I wouldn't cut it out cold turkey. I would nurse whenever the two of you are together, even if it's just one time a day. That's how natural weaning works, dropping feedings slowly over time til there's just one time a day when baby nurses. If you continue to nurse once a day, your milk will become more concentrated in nutrients and calories and will be like a multivitamin supplement for him to help keep him healthy.

Soft spout sipper cups are a good place, if there is a no-spill valve, take it out. Mine also did well with a straw at a very early age (like 9 months) and that made drinking other things besides mommy's milk very fun for them.

Have you tried regular oatmeal, rather than infant wallpaper paste oatmeal?

there are some ladies on the debate board, and the general board that have experience with babies with allergies, and I would suggest talking to them about food choices that will be safe, ensure enough nutrition, and not force him to have to subsist on soy formula that he may or may not ever like.

[katiepatatie]

Yes, he was tested for soy allergy and we were lucky that he wasn't allergic to that as well. I'm not sure that it doesn't like the soy formula because he will drink it from a regular cup. He just will not drink anything from any other cup or bottle, including EBM, water, and juice. How did you get your child to learn the sucking action from a straw? We have tried that and he just held the straw in his mouth. I never thought of regular oatmeal, I'm going to try that.

[Jacksmommy]

I actually think you're off to a promising start because your baby will take a bit of soy milk from a cup now. This is a really good sign. It's fine that it's only a small amount right now. You can build on that. My baby didn't like cereal at all. It's not a necessary food. Does your baby like any solids at all? Have you tried giving him soy yogurt? What about bananas or avacados or sweet potatoes? Those are my favorite first foods.

"I think with the stress of everything I have this magic date in my mind and if he doesn't start drinking the formula by mid-August I don't know what I will do." This is why I'm asking about solids and why I've talked about continuing to nurse when you and baby are together. You do need to have a plan B - so to speak. You don't want weaning to be a source of stress for you or for your baby.

A few questions: How often does your baby nurse in a 24 hour period? Does he nurse to sleep? Does he eat any solids at all? Why are you concerned about him getting enough iron? Is he anemic? Has he ever been?

[Amy_G_]

you take a straw and stick it in the drink of choice, hold your finger over the end of the straw so there is only a bit in the straw. take filled straw to baby's mouth, place in lips, let go with finger and let out fluid. make sure it's just a little bit at first, and something he might like to drink to make it interesting. after a few tries he may start to suck on the straw a bit and then you begin transitioning him to a straw IN a cup.

[katiepatatie]

I am just concerned because he is not getting any iron any other way, babies usually have a stored supply to last them about nine months because they don't get it through breast milk, since he won't eat any infant cereal, or much protein I am concerned that he is not getting enough iron. He eats better than he used to, for breakfast he will eat a broken piece of banana (maybe about an inch long), and some cheerios, he loves finger foods and I will always have some cheerios or toddler snacks out for him to munch on. Lunch does not always happen because he sleeps through lunch and then nurses when he wakes up so he is not hungry for food. Supper I will give him some baby food such as sweet potatoes or squash, about 2 tbsps, and then some applesauce or fruit and of course always with the cheerios so that he can feed himself while I am feeding him. He will not take any meat baby food (the commercial stuff, but then again who would, the stuff smells like dog food), so we will break up little pieces of chicken or beef, whatever we are eating, and feed it to him in bite size pieces. He is nursing about 7 or 8 times during the day and then at night 3 or 4 times everynight, he almost always nurses to fall asleep, although we are starting to try to change that. He is not and has never been an overly large baby, he will be ten months on the 11th and he is about 18 lbs. I am worried because when he was in and out of the hospital during the winter he didn't gain like he should have so I just want to make sure that he is getting the right amount of nutrients.

[Amy_G_]

Babies get iron in breastmilk. And the iron in breastmilk is more bioavailable than iron in cereal or any other foods.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/iron.html


if he's eating cheerios he's getting quite a bit of iron
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/breakfast-cereals/1522/2

If he'll eat your chicken or beef, he's getting iron there as well.

Baby cereal is pushed as a high iron thing, but it's fortified iron--not stuff naturally occuring in the food, which makes it a bit less "good for you."


foods richer in iron:
breastmilk
winter squash
sweet potatoes
prune juice
meat & poultry (beef, beef & chicken liver, turkey, chicken)
mushrooms
greens (spinach, chard, watercress)
grains (millet, brown rice, quinoa, breads with these grains)
blackstrap molasses (try adding a little to cereal or rice)

and after about a year of age:
dried beans (lima, lentils, kidney)
tofu
egg yolks
grains (cooked cracked wheat, cornmeal, grits, farina, bran, breads with these grains)
tomato
dried fruit (figs, apricots, prunes, raisins)
meat (pork)

I would try various ways to get him to take soy formula in a cup/spout/straw, and try to continue to nurse him when you are together. You may find that he nurses more when you are together and barely takes anything but some solids when you are apart. And he'll be fine if you do that.

oh try a sipper cup of water to play with in the bathtub. sometimes the pouring thing gets them excited about it and they'll try some, and then have it carry over to drinking out of it outside of the bathtub.

[katiepatatie]

We had a good day today, I gave him very diluted apple juice in a Gerber training cup (there is no valve in it) and he really enjoyed it, he actually drank some of it, mostly though he ended up soaked from head to toe and stinking like apple juice, but he is more accepting of the cups and definately prefers them over the bottles. I guess we will keep working on it. I just keep making sure that the cup is always with him, whether he sips from it or not, like when we are out in the stroller, or in the high chair etc, and eventually he will get used to it. I just put either diluted apple juice or simply water in it just because I don't want formula sitting around for too long on a hot summer day.

[Jacksmommy]

I think that's a really good idea. I'd stick with water if you don't want to waste formula when you're going to keep a cup out for long periods of time, but I don't recommend apple juice. Babies get used to that sweet taste and then it's what they crave. Also, apple juice is basically sugar water - not very healthy. Are you offering him the formula still at some points during the day? I think you want to keep that up if you want him to transition to formula soon.

[Jacksmommy]

Katiepatatie,
How is it going?

[kohlby]

Have his iron tested if you are concerned.
My son ate 0-100 calories of nonbreastmilk at 18 months due to solid issues, and those nonbreastmilk foods did not have iron in them. Yet his iron was perfect. Many babies have enough iron stores to last at least a year. If your baby was a preemie, then it's more likely to not have enough stores for a year, but it's still not a definate.

I was allergic to caseins, the milk protiens. (Which is different than the milk protein lactose which most babies are intolerant of until around a year). However, the allergy was only found when I was tested due to other reactions and I did out grow it. My DD was allergic to dairy and soy as a baby too, and I had to get all dairy and soy out of my diet. It was much easier to breastfeed her and not worry about how I'm going to feed her when the only solids she liked were fruits and veggies. She also outgrew her dairy/soy problems, though at a much younger age than I did.

[katiepatatie]

Things are going okay. My son is taking little bits of formula daily, I just have to keep trying new things. Lately, he really likes drinking from a plastic drinking box (like the Rubbermaid ones). He has mastered the straw so this type of cup works really well, the only problem is that he is not used to gulping that much liquid (once again another learning experience). I am trying to not stress too much about it, and we are slowly working on more solids so that if need be, he will be okay on solids during the day while I am at work. I have a feeling that if I go out for a couple of hours and my husband is alone with him if he gets hungry enough he will take the formula. The other thing that I found if when trying to give him the soy, I cannot sit in the chair that I always nurse him in. I usually just give him the cup and let him sip on it while playing or sitting in his high chair. Thanks for all your help.

[katiepatatie]

That's very encouraging news that most babies do outgrow the dairy allergy. Some of the info I read on it said that 95% of babies outgrow it between the age of 3-5 years. How old was your daughter when she outgrew it? Did she have eczema too? Funny, I have found that I have to limit the amount of dairy I have, I can still eat some dairy however if I overdo it then the next day my son's skin is all broken out in open sores. When I questioned the dermatologist on this last week he said the there is really no studies to show that it does effect the breastmilk and he doubts that any of the dairy is being passed into the breastmilk, but I disagree. I have to completely avoid sour cream, if I eat sour cream I can guarantee that the next day he will be all broken out. So did you have the same problem? The other thing that is funny is when he actually eats dairy himself he reacts with breathing issues, hives, vomitting, his eyes swell up and water, his nose runs, and the skin around his neck goes red and swells, but when he gets it in the breastmilk the only reaction is his eczema worsens or flares up. Do you know anything about the milk protein passing through breastmilk?

[Jacksmommy]

I know there are moms on this board who breastfeed babies with milk allergies, and they have had to cut out all dairy from their diets - even hidden dairy. It's interesting that with your son you are able to still have some. I wonder if it would help him to outgrow this allergy faster if you were to eliminate dairy from your diet while you are still nursing.

I'm glad to hear that he's taking to drinking from a cup more and more, and I'm glad to hear you're not stressing over any of this.

[mcmahan3]

Have you tried a straw cup?? My daughter is a year old and i am trying to wean her as well, and she won't take a sippy or bottle...but she seems to do better with the straw cup...what i did was take a straw and get some milk in it and put the in her mouth and slowly release the milk and then she started sucking on the straw to get the milk. I am still breastfeeding because she isn't even drinking an ounce of cow's milk, but atleast she is getting used to it..

I kinda felt the same way..i posted a topic asking for advice on weaning and I had someone act like I was doing the wrong thing to wean my 1 year old daughter. Like I said to them, I give woman props for breastfeeding longer than a year, but it is not for me and they really shouldn't criticize woman who want to stop at a year..or a little under because we made it a loong time!!

[LeighAnneMOM2-3boys]

All my sons had Milk Protein and soy protein allergies. Has your Dr reccommended Neocate or Elecare formulas they make them for babies and for a year and older? And YES milk proteins can transfer through the breastmilk. I had to elminate all dairy, hidden also from my diet amoung other meat and plant proteins for all my children so I could breastfeed successfuly.
My don would only drink from a straw cup when I had to start him on formula and off the breast did you try that?