Tell me I'm not wrong, please.

[Earthmama]

The other day we caught the ice cream truck and DS and I each got an ice cream treat.

I didn't get a chance to finish mine the first night and so I put it in the freezer until I would have a chance to finish it.

Well for the last 3 days, DS has been after it - and at one point I said I would share it with him, but he'd have to wait until I was ready to eat it.

Today while I was pulling myself together after my shower, DS started insisting we eat the ice cream again. And I said he'd have to wait until I was ready to eat it. He told me he wanted the bubble gum eyes. So I smiled and said that he could have one when we ate it.

Well a few moments later he walks into the bathroom with the ice cream thing in his hand, eaten down far enough to get to a bubble gum eye.

I scolded him for not respecting my boundaries about sharing my ice cream and took it back from him - and then I told him it made me very sad that he took my ice cream when HE wanted it instead of waiting like I told him.

I also took one of his toys and said, Okay, this is mine now. He started crying and insisted it was his. And I told him, Yes, it's yours, but do you see how you would feel if I did the same thing to you with your toy that you did to me with my ice cream?

He asked to share it again and I told him I wasn't ready to eat it, that he would have to wait until I was ready to share it with him. He became upset again.

I put the ice cream back in the freezer and told him he would not be able to share it with me because he wasn't willing to work with the kind of sharing I was willing to do.

A few moments later he tried to hand me half of his chewed up eyeball gum - which was really cute and sweet of him, so I smiled and said, "I love you! But no, thank you. That's yours. I told you you could have it, but I would have preferred that you wait until I was ready to share with you."

He smiled and put the gum back in his mouth and left the room.

He returned again, this time with the 2nd gumball eye and a small handful of ice cream in his hand, offering it to me.

Sweet, yes, but totally going against me being ready or willing yet.

I went and took the ice cream out of the refrigerator and threatened to throw it away because it was becoming such a point of conflict, now.

He ate the 2nd gumball and cried & said he was sad.

So I asked if he would feel better if I just ate it and we were done with the issue.

He said no, that he wanted it.

I told him that he had lost the opportunity to share with me when he disrespected my boundaries for that sharing.

I ate the ice cream. (Not enjoying it at all) and he cried the whole time, insisting he have some - even trying to lean over and steal a bite at one point when I finally stopped trying to be out of his line of sight and sat down.

He's no longer upset. But I'm not pleased with the whole thing.

I want him to understand yours/mine and the cooperation that goes into sharing. And that he can not expect others to deprive themselves just because he can't work within the boundaries of the agreement.

I'm going to try not to be defensive because there is a lot that could have been done differently - but I am still just minutes out of the situation - so I'm still a bit raw from it.

But please, share wisdom, experiences, etc.

FWIW - I think we both need naps.

NAK

[Jacksmommy]

How old is your ds? Three days is a long time to wait.

[Nipple_nectar]

You need to get a lock on that freezer. They make velcro adhesive locks that you could put out of his reach.

You were alot more fair than I would have been, I would have taken the gumball eyes and thrown them away as a consequence for not following the rules.

[Earthmama]

He's 3.

He ate his ice cream that night (Sun)
Mon we were busy all day - him at preschool most of the day.
Today is Tue, the day of conflict.

[hotlama]

It depends on the age. When my kids (12+14) eat something when they know it's being saved I don't let them eat the meal the it was saved for. For example, my ds snuck a bag of fritos that he knew were being saved for a casserole. I bought anew bag of chips and when we ate that meal he didn't get any chips. I told him that he already ate his portion the other day.

This works for older kids but I don't know if it would work on little kids since they find of live in the moment.

[KerryS]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.

[raelooney]

It sounds to me like you handled the situation very well. I would have made him spit the gumball eyes out and throw them in the trash. So, I think you were easy enough on him and did well with trying to explain to him and make him understand. You'll just have to wait and see if he learns anything from it. If he doesn't then you may have to be a little tougher on him the next time. Just my suggestion!

[Jacksmommy]

I don't want to tell you you were wrong. I don't even know if you were. What I know is that my 3 year old would have felt like he was being tortured if he had to wait so long for something he really wanted that was right here.

[Tweet]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


I agree. Well, I suppose it does depend on the tone used with the taking his toy. Did you give it back after you did that?

I think eating the ice cream in front of was mean, sorry. I get that it sucks when they do something you've said not to,but that just seems over the top.

Now, taking it away as soon as he'd gotten it, that I could see. Even then, though, it's likely not one battle I'd have fought.

[Earthmama]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


These are the things I felt bad about - but It wasn't the tone or attitude you may be assuming.

It wasn't in a mean or taunting voice that I told him that he was feeling the same way he made me feel. It was in a gentle, explanitory voice after affirming the toy was, indeed, his.

And I tried not to eat it in front of him - but he followed me around - and I didn't want him to think I was trying to get away from him. (In light of my separation from his father, I'm a little hyper-vigilant abput not creating situations that he may interpret as personal rejection or abandonment.) I did finally sit down.

[Babyhellfire]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.
I agree.
I do like the way you tried to explain it to him how you felt
- showing him with the toy is a bit much for 3.

[Earthmama]

The toy was never taken from his hand. It was sitting on my bed. I handed it to him at his first noise of protest and reassured him that I knew it was his.

[Jacksmommy]

I would have either said "not now" with the ice-cream or I would have decided it was time for us to share it. Most likely I would have seen that it was very important to him and I would have declared it ice-cream time for us both.

[crissyy]

These are the things I felt bad about - but It wasn't the tone or attitude you may be assuming.

It wasn't in a mean or taunting voice that I told him that he was feeling the same way he made me feel. It was in a gentle, explanitory voice after affirming the toy was, indeed, his.

And I tried not to eat it in front of him - but he followed me around - and I didn't want him to think I was trying to get away from him. (In light of my separation from his father, I'm a little hyper-vigilant abput not creating situations that he may interpret as personal rejection or abandonment.) I did finally sit down.

Bold mine.

I think that sometimes it is hard as a parent to make decisions on the spot. It's easy to think back and say I could have done that better. However.... I wouldn't have eaten it at all. I would have taken the gumballs away from dd and thrown the gumballs and the entire ice cream in the garbage. It would have been done then. I think that eating it in front of him was OTT.

[steelady]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


I agree with this. I doubt he has a good feeling for time. Perhaps put into place a way he can tell time (a calender or a timer of some sort).

Not that I think you are awful or anything. If it makes you feel better, I can list out everything I've done wrong, it's a long list.

[Justicedog]

I don't want to tell you you were wrong. I don't even know if you were. What I know is that my 3 year old would have felt like he was being tortured if he had to wait so long for something he really wanted that was right here.


I agree with the being tortured part of it. You have a right to raise and behave with your child however you want. However, for me, I think it's mean to have a treat and have him wait that long for it. If I'm not wanting something immediately, or the next day, I'm not going to begrudge my child from wanting (and having) it, especially if it has bubblegum eyes.

The basic rule in our house is that if someone saves leftovers in the fridge, if it's not gone the next day, then it's up for grabs.

[Justicedog]

Most likely I would have seen that it was very important to him and I would have declared it ice-cream time for us both.

Yes, I like this.

[CatSoup]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.

I agree with this.

[CatSoup]

I agree with this. I doubt he has a good feeling for time. Perhaps put into place a way he can tell time (a calender or a timer of some sort).

Not that I think you are awful or anything. If it makes you feel better, I can list out everything I've done wrong, it's a long list.

Oh my goodness. My list of mistakes with Jonas keeps me up at night.

[Nipple_nectar]

Steele made me chuckle..my list is very long as well:/ I think sometimes we do regret our behavior in hindsight. As long as we grow in the long run, it does serve a purpose.

I do agree that trying to get him to understand the feeling may have been outside his boundary of capability.

[StElmosFire]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.

Yep.

[Justicedog]

Well for the last 3 days, DS has been after it - and at one point I said I would share it with him, but he'd have to wait until I was ready to eat it.


The bolded part doesn't seem to fit with the following. My comments were mainly based on the "for 3 days, ds has been after it". I can't imagine not being able to find (or make) a time to share with dc within 3 days if he's been after it. I cave in too much though.

He's 3.

He ate his ice cream that night (Sun)
Mon we were busy all day - him at preschool most of the day.
Today is Tue, the day of conflict.

[Suzette]

I would have just cut a portion off and put it in a bowl for him the first time he wanted it.

[xobehs]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.
Yep.
He's THREE.

[TuetonicWillow]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


This is what I was going to say.

[peytonsmommie]

My three year old would have done the same thing, I think. In fact, he would have been after it 10 seconds after I told him we could share it when I was ready. I think the first time you had to put it back in the freezer, you should have put it up high in the freezer so that he couldn't reach it. I think it was mean to eat it whether you thought he could see you or not. If you didn't even want it, why eat it? Why couldn't you just go ahead and share it with him at that point? That would have broken my son's heart.

I don't want to be taken advantage of- and I want my son to learn about respecting my wishes, but i think it was taken too far. Just thinking about him bringing the second gumdrop to you- in his little mind he probably thought he was being nice trying to share, since he had eaten the first gumball himself and you didn't get one.

[JustMoi]

Sharing it with him at that point would have meant that he didn't learn a thing other than disobeying and sneaking would get him what he wanted. A three year old is NOT too young to learn the meaning of NO and the meaning of "it's not yours."


Why couldn't you just go ahead and share it with him at that point? That would have broken my son's heart.

[cream_city]

Bold mine.

I think that sometimes it is hard as a parent to make decisions on the spot. It's easy to think back and say I could have done that better. However.... I wouldn't have eaten it at all. I would have taken the gumballs away from dd and thrown the gumballs and the entire ice cream in the garbage. It would have been done then. I think that eating it in front of him was OTT.


This.

[cream_city]

I just want to add that I agree with justmoi that she couldn't have shared it with him at that point -- it would have been validating his behavior.

[Earthmama]

It broke my heart, too - my biggest clue that I hadn't handled it as well as I could have.

I'm not going to beat myself up - I know I could have done better - but I also know I can learn and be better next time.

I didn't want to teach him that others forfeit their rewards when he causes trouble.

[babymakes4]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


this, and waiting 3 days with ice cream in the freezer? That is like torture for a 3 year old, hell that's torture for me.

[Justicedog]

I just want to add that I agree with justmoi that she couldn't have shared it with him at that point -- it would have been validating his behavior.


I agree with this, I don't think it should have been allowed to get to this point. It seems the poor guy was really being set up to fail.

[BeanBabies]

I don't like it either. It was ice cream with bubble gum eyes, for the love of pete.

[cream_city]

Earthmama -- I've noticed that you've posted a bit about discipline problems with your son on other threads lately. Do you think that just all the stress with having a new baby is making your son act out a bit more? You are probably stressed and not quite at your best either.

It must be hard to be a single parent to a new infant and a 3 year old. Is there any way that you can get a babysitter or family member to watch the baby for awhile and spend time one-on-one with your son? Or to take that time to just spend some time alone, and recharge?

[steelady]

Earthmama -- I've noticed that you've posted a bit about discipline problems with your son on other threads lately. Do you think that just all the stress with having a new baby is making your son act out a bit more? You are probably stressed and not quite at your best either.

It must be hard to be a single parent to a new infant and a 3 year old. Is there any way that you can get a babysitter or family member to watch the baby for awhile and spend time one-on-one with your son? Or to take that time to just spend some time alone, and recharge?


Three is also a difficult age-harder than 2 (they don't tell ya that because we wouldn't survive the two's ;)).

:hug:

[HammBugga]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


ITA. He is THREE. Sounds just like something that would happen between my dh and ds. A power struggle because they both want to be in control. It drives me nuts.

[Iconoclast]

Sharing it with him at that point would have meant that he didn't learn a thing other than disobeying and sneaking would get him what he wanted. A three year old is NOT too young to learn the meaning of NO and the meaning of "it's not yours."

ITA with this. I would have eaten it when and where I wanted to, regardless of if the child saw me eat it or not. I would not have even considered sharing after he disobeyed me the first time.

[Macabe]

I actually think that you talking about his toy being yours was a decent technique. It's hard to teach empathy to little kids. I would have tried to make the conversation that some things are "ours," some things belong to the "family," some things belong to "you" and some things belong to me.

That toy is yours--it's nice when you want to share it, but it is yours.
That ice cream is mine. I want to share it, but it's mine, not yours.

These are concepts that toddlers/preschoolers sort-of get, but don't necessarily get in a concrete way.

I think it was probably wrong to eat in front of him. As far as I'm concerned, if my 3 year old disobeyed like that, there's no way I'd give in at that moment, but I wouldn't rub it in his face, either.

However, in the end, he saw that what he did made you really, really sad, and that might be enough of a lesson on how to treat other people.

[Ilovemonkeys]

I understand taking the toy, attempting to prove a point, but I think it's really lost on a 3 yo. I can understand doing it in the heat of the moment.

I would have made him spit the gum out and throw the ice cream away.
And the next time he asked for ice cream i'd remind him why I wouldn't be buyng any.

[fell4myfallbaby]

i'm sure it was tough on you! no experience in that type of situation...yet....so i don't know what i would have done. but he sounds so cute with the ice cream dripping all over!

[EvilAmy]

I think when a mom tells a three year old for three days in a row that she's not ready to share is down right unreasonable IMNSHO. Normally when people tell their kids they have to share they don't mean share when they feel like it. It wasn't anything but a popsicle. But I guess it's the whole principle of the matter. Which a three year old isn't going to get but I'm sure he'll remember how to sneak things.

Not intending to sound snarky but I am moody and scratching my head.

[Aeonkat]

ITA with this. I would have eaten it when and where I wanted to, regardless of if the child saw me eat it or not. I would not have even considered sharing after he disobeyed me the first time.


Yep. Three is not too young to understand sharing and rules. I wouldn't give in just because he was upset. I mean come on, are we forgetting he already had an ice cream to himself?

[Aeonkat]

I think when a mom tells a three year old for three days in a row that she's not ready to share is down right unreasonable IMNSHO. Normally when people tell their kids they have to share they don't mean share when they feel like it. It wasn't anything but a popsicle. But I guess it's the whole principle of the matter. Which a three year old isn't going to get but I'm sure he'll remember how to sneak things.

Not intending to sound snarky but I am moody and scratching my head.


Seriously? He already had an ice cream to himself. If he cant wait, then he doesn't get it at all.

[EvilAmy]

You're right a three year old has the patience level of being able to wait three days for someone to share.

What was I thinking.

ETA: As well as remember "Hey I had one three days ago, I really don't want another one"

[Aeonkat]

He ate his own on Sunday. They were too busy Monday. Today is Tuesday. No I don't think it is unreasonable for a 3 year old to understand to wait for a treat. I would agree with you if it was HIS ice cream, but it wasn't. He got to eat that the first night. I think it is a bad precedence to give into a child's whim like that. Age doesn't mean he gets what he wants, when he wants it.

Should this go with toy buying to? Kid wants toys in a store. Mom gets him a little something that day. He wants something else. Mom can't afford it. Mom asks him to wait until pay day. So because child can't wait, mom should go broke buying it for him? Same issue. It's called teaching understanding and patience.

[Earthmama]

Earthmama -- I've noticed that you've posted a bit about discipline problems with your son on other threads lately. Do you think that just all the stress with having a new baby is making your son act out a bit more? You are probably stressed and not quite at your best either.

It must be hard to be a single parent to a new infant and a 3 year old. Is there any way that you can get a babysitter or family member to watch the baby for awhile and spend time one-on-one with your son? Or to take that time to just spend some time alone, and recharge?

I think you're right on in your assessment.

I haven't felt comfortable leaving her yet - but maybe it's time to get over that.

I am sad that DS and I don't have as much one on one time anymore. I hate that my place is a mess.

I hate that I'm shorter tempered because I'm exhausted.

I am frustrated that DS spends the day going from one thing he's not supposed to to the next.

On the plus side, bedtime is getting easier and DS has completed his potty & poopy training since the baby has been born. Also, his teachers say he is doing better at (pre)school since she has been born.

But I feel bad every time I have to tell him not to wake the baby - or that he has - or no, I can't because I have to xyz the baby now.

I know it's all still just a matter of adjusting & redeveloping routines.

But the help I do have - my mother comes over about once a week and makes a dinner & picks up a little bit - but she's obviously ubhappy about it - and even asked me, "What happened to this place?" To which I answered, "I had a baby." And I asked her if she expected me to keep it as clean now as I did before & she said yes.

She came over one day & I was napping with the baby when she arrived & she told me, "The baby's sleeping, Donovan is at school, this would be a good time to clean up."

But I'm high risk for a repeat case of PPD/PPS, so I take my naps seriously. Without them, I can hardly be lived with for the evening.

I am afraid of setting DS up for failure. I love him so much, and sometimes I don't have the patience to treat him as fairly & lovingly as I want to.

I'm scared of saying something that will really hurt him. I'm afraid he'll remember me, still topless from nursing, roughly picking him up and setting him on his step stool and growling at him to brush his damn teeth, for what must be the 50th request.

I really don't like what I can be sometimes. :(

That said - I probably need to sign off & go to bed.

Thanks for listening.

[Amy_G_]

I understand taking the toy, attempting to prove a point, but I think it's really lost on a 3 yo. I can understand doing it in the heat of the moment.

I would have made him spit the gum out and throw the ice cream away.
And the next time he asked for ice cream i'd remind him why I wouldn't be buyng any.

That is harsh and meanspirited. Why would you treat your 3 year old worse than you would ever want to be treated?

[fell4myfallbaby]

hope things get better!

[Bellaelle]

I have always said the hardest job is that of a single momma.I cannot imagine how tired and cranky you are.You have a pre-schooler and newborn to deal with.Plus,the divorce.

I think deep down you know it was not handled the best way,but you live and you learn.

(((hugs)))

[Sunnie]

I don't agree with taking his toy and saying "See? How does it feel?"

I also don't agree with eating the ice cream in front of him.

I think you're expecting a lot for a 3-year-old.


this

[Crabbie]

I think the only two things that I would have done differently are

1, not tell him that you'd share it

2, instead of eating it I would have thrown it out.


(((em)))

[EvilAmy]

Aeon, we'll have to agree to disagree. While I could go through and list disagreements I'm more likely to not make EM feel any better with all that she clearly has going on which is difficult enough. I could also describe something today that would let her know that even after four kids I still mess up, we all do. I already know I was wrong. And I'm a little distracted by this little one who's trying to decide if she's going to make an early appearance, so I'm not bailing on the argument either. Just don't have the energy to argue with you.

:hug: Earthmama, I hope things smooth out for you. While I said I disagree, you are going through a very tough time and need to be kind to yourself.

[meatwad]

I've only read the OP, so excuse me if this has already been said.

I chose my battles, and getting that worked up over a three day old ice cream isn't a battle I chose to fight.

My advice to you, would be to either eat the ice cream when you get it, (who the hell keeps ice cream for 3 days??) or hide in the pantry and eat it when everyone goes to bed. Not that I've ever done that or anything.

[Aeonkat]

Wouldn't hiding it in the pantry melt it? ;)

I had ice cream for over a month before I ate it.

[nikkifaith]

I made peach icecream and strawberry icecream last week and still have some of both left even with nine people eating out of it.

I can't say you weren't wrong EM, but I am not going to rag on you at all. Be easy on yourself and feel good that you care enough to consider all of these things.

[meatwad]

Wouldn't hiding it in the pantry melt it? ;)

I had ice cream for over a month before I ate it.


Well, you hide it in the back of the freezer until the kids go to bed. Then take it out, hide in the pantry, and eat it. (You have to hide while eating it, because their little bionic ears pick up things like ice cream licks.)

[EllaBella]

My mother told me when I had Ella that I would make mistakes, just like she made mistakes, I am not saying what you did EM is a mistake, but If you feel guilty, know this, You are a mom, and had you done nothing at all you wouldn't have been much of one. If you weren't to show your son that there are rules, then are we not encouraging them to disobey "rules" in the future, if there is no consequences for our actions? We must all learn from how we handle situations, and know in the future how to handle them better, while some 3 yr olds might have been understanding, others wouldn't be. With that said, I have a newborn myself and can feel for you in that reguard, rest easy EM you need it :)

[Justicedog]

I have always said the hardest job is that of a single momma.I cannot imagine how tired and cranky you are.You have a pre-schooler and newborn to deal with.Plus,the divorce.

I think deep down you know it was not handled the best way,but you live and you learn.

(((hugs)))


I agree with this too. You'll get the hang of dealing with life as a single mom and new mother of two and get a routine and it'll get better.

ETA: Going from one child to two was really tough, mine were 2 years apart.

[Jacksmommy]

I agree with not beating yourself up over this. It was a moment. We all make mistakes. It's hard to balance the desire to teach rules and respect and to remember age and impulse control and understanding and compassion all at the same time. When you have a new baby, a 3 year old can suddenly seem like such a big boy.

[BeanBabies]

Another thing.

I think you are being far too hard on yourself. I think you are trying to be the perfect mother right from the get-go and it doesn't work that way. You guys all need an adjustment period before things begin to seem "normal" in any way.

I just don't want you to think that there is this ideal that you simply must achieve RIGHT NOW.

Hang in there. It'll all smooth out soon, I promise.

[jaelwoman]

I had to go re-read the OP to make sure I understand what happened. He had his ice cream and this was yours right. Yes, you said you would share it with him, but he had his ice cream, so you weren't depriving him of anything...

I think you handled it fine. I too would have made him spit out the gum, but that is the only thing I would have done differently. Yes, he's three, but he can learn patience and the concept of sharing/mine/yours. It's not like you bought him an ice cream and said...no you can't have it now, you have to wait until I say you can have it. He had his, you explained that you ice cream was yours and that you would share when you were ready to eat it. The point is that he had his ice cream. You didn't deprive him of anything. Just because the ice cream was there, didn't make it ok for him to eat. It wasn't his. And I don't think it is too early to teach him that.

As far as taking the toy and explaining it...given that you were probably very gentle in saying what you did, I think it was a fine example and would have used that myself.

For those of you saying that it was too long to wait - why? It wasn't his ice cream to have. She could have easily said no, this is mommy's ice cream and I'm sorry, you have eaten yours. Next time we go to the store you can pick out another kind, or next time the ice cream truck comes you can have one...but this one is mine. Granted, he saw her put the ice cream in the freezer, but why does that automatically make it ok for HIM to say when she can eat it?

[jaelwoman]

Or I coud just follow Aeon around and nod my head....

[Iconoclast]

I am really suprised at how some people would indulge the disobedient child. I agree with Aeon et al. He had his, he was told his Mom would generously share hers later. Later means later. A day, a week, a month, later. Not now. Not at anytime the three year old gets a hankerin' for ice cream. Delayed gratification. No, 3 is certainly not too young to learn that. In fact, I'd have expected mine to have learned it well by three and just for nagging me about it he'd not have had any. Stealing it would have come with a whole new set of consequences.

I thought taking the toy was unnecessary and probably ineffective, but not a "bad" parenting move. Hypothetically giving the 3 y/o what he wants when he wants it because not doing so is mean, well that is bad parenting IMO. I guess I am "mean" but I have very obedient kids. I'm their mother, not their friend. It is my JOB to be mean sometimes.

[newbie]

Oh, the difference in parenting. I personally wouldn't have handled it that way, BUT your kid your choice as long as it is not abusive you are free to raise your child as you choose, no right or wrong answer here, with everything you are going through I wouldn't sweat it.

[Ilovemonkeys]

That is harsh and meanspirited. Why would you treat your 3 year old worse than you would ever want to be treated?



oh well then i'm mean. If my kids can't control themselves with ice cream then I just won't buy any.

You follow the rules or you don't participate.

[Tweet]

I'd also like to add that while I disagreed with how EM handled it, I've also got a huge list of mistakes I've made. I didn't want her to think I was thinking, "OMG! EM totally sucks at parenting!!"

[Justicedog]

I'd also like to add that while I disagreed with how EM handled it, I've also got a huge list of mistakes I've made. I didn't want her to think I was thinking, "OMG! EM totally sucks at parenting!!"


me too.

[Amy_G_]

But why would we EVER discipline our child in a way that we would NEVER want to be treated?

You would be called childish if you took something away from your dh and ate it in front of him, or threw it away so he couldn't have it. But to act that way in front of your child is showing them how to behave? Would you want your child to treat another child with that kind of disrespect?

Children aren't dogs that are disobedient and need to be trained and put in their place. They need to be treated with respect even when they screw up. What good would throwing away the ice cream do? It would be petty.

What if a friend of your child took your child's ice cream out of the freezer and was eating it after being told they would share later. How would you want your child to handle it?

How bout?
I see you just couldn't wait, could you? You know that was my ice cream, and you should have waited for me. How bout you go put it back in the freezer while I get ready and then we'll go finish it together?

That would work wether talking to your child, another adult, or your child speaking to another child in a similar situation, wouldn't it? It wouldn't be condoning what they did. But it also wouldn't be over reacting to a perfectly normal child impulse issue.

[Amy_G_]

I agree with not beating yourself up over this. It was a moment. We all make mistakes. It's hard to balance the desire to teach rules and respect and to remember age and impulse control and understanding and compassion all at the same time. When you have a new baby, a 3 year old can suddenly seem like such a big boy.

I have a 12 year old and 8 year old. they make a 3 year old seem like such a tiny baby. of course, 3 year olds are not babies, but they are also not very old.

I also would choose my battles. Eating ice cream when he wanted to, instead of when it was convenient to me for him to eat the ice cream wouldn't really register as a huge issue. Cause it isn't.

[BeanBabies]

I'd also like to add that while I disagreed with how EM handled it, I've also got a huge list of mistakes I've made. I didn't want her to think I was thinking, "OMG! EM totally sucks at parenting!!"

Same here. I don't have a list, I have a book.

[BeanBabies]

I see you just couldn't wait, could you? You know that was my ice cream, and you should have waited for me. How bout you go put it back in the freezer while I get ready and then we'll go finish it together?


This is what I would have done.

Actually, I would have just let him have it, but in the OP's situation, I like Amy's answer.

[Iconoclast]

Eating ice cream when he wanted to, instead of when it was convenient to me for him to eat the ice cream wouldn't really register as a huge issue. Cause it isn't.

Ice cream is not the issue at all for me. Disobedience though, is a HUGE issue in my home. I wouldn't have thrown it away, nor would I have eaten it in front of him out of spite (not that EM did that). I would have taken it away and eaten it when and where I wanted to, regardless of where the kid was or how he felt about it, My kid wouldn't have gotten any of THAt ice cream, nor would he get anymore for quite a while.

No means no, end of story.

[Iconoclast]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweet
I'd also like to add that while I disagreed with how EM handled it, I've also got a huge list of mistakes I've made. I didn't want her to think I was thinking, "OMG! EM totally sucks at parenting!!"

Same here. I don't have a list, I have a book.


ditto

[Justicedog]

It really is a shame that we cannot consult bf.com whenever we have to make a decision on how to handle something. We get a variety of answers and reasons and then we can pick whichever is best for us and then do it.

[jaelwoman]

Maybe it's just because I am in a really, really bad mood, but I don't understand this at all. So you are telling me that if you purchased ice cream for you to eat and your DH was found eating it, you would gently tell him, I see you are eating my ice cream. You should have asked me first. I bought that for me and I was looking forward to having it when I have a few minutes to myself. Please put it back?? I wouldn't be all screaming banshee woman on him but I would be like hey - that's mine, you need to put that back...now...before I do go all screaming banshee woman on you.

How is it horrible to make a 3 year old wait? It's HER ice cream. He had his. She said she would share when SHE was ready. Not when he was ready, when she was. Maybe she was waiting until she could savor it with him. Maybe she just wanted to teach him patience. At any rate, EM has been here long enough to know that whatever she said to him it was in love and with guidance which is exactly how that situation should be handled. She didn't want him to have the ice cream...not until SHE was ready. Now a 3 year old is going to tell her when that will be? Tough noogies baby, I said we'd share (probably mistake number one) and we will, when I say so. Me, the mom, not you the kid.

[Ilovemonkeys]

But why would we EVER discipline our child in a way that we would NEVER want to be treated?



If I took something from another adult, without their permission I sure as hell wouldn't expect to be allowed to keep it just b/c i'd already taken it and used it.


And I never said anything about eating it or taking his toys, I said I would have made him spit the gum out and I would have thrown it away. I wouldn't care to eat an ice cream bar after my 3 yo had slobbered all over it and I wouldn't let him have it just because.

You don't follow the rules, you don't participate/get rewarded/you get punished etc. That goes for whether you're 3 or 33. I have rules to follow too.

[Iconoclast]

I don't remember what it was Monkeys, but last week I was (silently) vehemently disagreeing with you about something. You have redeeemed yourself in my eyes today. ;)

[Ilovemonkeys]

I wonder what it was? :D I don't even remember posting all that much last week.

[xobehs]

Eating ice cream when he wanted to, instead of when it was convenient to me for him to eat the ice cream wouldn't really register as a huge issue. Cause it isn't.
Disobedience though, is a HUGE issue in my home.
This speaks to me...
So, the hard line approach doesn't always work then?

[Turkpea]

Shoot...I think you did fine! I know my DS at 3 would have TOTALLY understood the entire situation and at that age he would have KNOWN that what he was doing was wrong so I totally think you were ok in what you did. I, like some of the other PP's would have actually NOT let him have the gum eyes and I would have thrown them away as well.

About the toy.....I think it was a proper way and a way in which he could easily understand and grasp the meaning of the situation in which you were trying to convey!! It's not like you took the toy and tossed it in the garbage knowing it was his most favorite toy!!!

Kudo's to you for having patience and not flying off the handle at the whole situation. I don't think you should feel bad, not even about him knowing you were eating the ice cream and not sharing. He had his the night you bought them initially and I'm sure he remembered that.......and I'm sure he remembered that was your ice cream too!!

I don't think you should feel bad at all!!

[Jacksmommy]

Maybe it's just because I am in a really, really bad mood, but I don't understand this at all. So you are telling me that if you purchased ice cream for you to eat and your DH was found eating it, you would gently tell him, I see you are eating my ice cream. You should have asked me first. I bought that for me and I was looking forward to having it when I have a few minutes to myself. Please put it back?? I wouldn't be all screaming banshee woman on him but I would be like hey - that's mine, you need to put that back...now...before I do go all screaming banshee woman on you.


See, if I caught my dh eating my ice-cream (kind of hard to imagine actually because we don't really do the whole mine and thine thing - pretty much everything is "ours"), I'd just laugh and say,"Did you need some ice-cream, honey?" - if I said anything at all. It's ice-cream. It's just ice-cream. How can anyone make a big deal out of ice-cream?

[Iconoclast]

This speaks to me...
So, the hard line approach doesn't always work then?

I think you are inferring that I have disipline problems. That is not what I meant. The original sentance I quoted said the ice cream issue wasn't a "huge" deal. I said icecream is beside the point, the disobedient act is a huge issue.

[steelady]

Maybe it's just because I am in a really, really bad mood, but I don't understand this at all. So you are telling me that if you purchased ice cream for you to eat and your DH was found eating it, you would gently tell him, I see you are eating my ice cream. You should have asked me first. I bought that for me and I was looking forward to having it when I have a few minutes to myself. Please put it back?? I wouldn't be all screaming banshee woman on him but I would be like hey - that's mine, you need to put that back...now...before I do go all screaming banshee woman on you.

How is it horrible to make a 3 year old wait? It's HER ice cream. He had his. She said she would share when SHE was ready. Not when he was ready, when she was. Maybe she was waiting until she could savor it with him. Maybe she just wanted to teach him patience. At any rate, EM has been here long enough to know that whatever she said to him it was in love and with guidance which is exactly how that situation should be handled. She didn't want him to have the ice cream...not until SHE was ready. Now a 3 year old is going to tell her when that will be? Tough noogies baby, I said we'd share (probably mistake number one) and we will, when I say so. Me, the mom, not you the kid.


First off, I would expect my husband to already know these thinigs. My 3 y/o child, not so much.

My point was that an open ended "when I feel like it" has little to no meaning to a child. They don't have a good sense of time anyway and you now gave him an open ended answer. Given the tendency for children at this age (and I have no idea about "normal" kids, mine is not typical, so feel free to tell me I'm way off base) to be impulsive and self-centered, I could see a child continually wanting to ask (or continually asking) or even doing something completely self-serving and actually thinking it would ok.

To me, that's not really deliberate disobedience as much as a child not knowing exactly how to proceed to get what he wants. IMO, as a learning moment for the mom, it is better to give hard and fast time tables (and the child the means to understand it) to help them-i.e try to set him up for success rather than failure-deal with the waiting.

Do I think EM permanently scarred her child? No, of course not. DO I think she was a big ole meaning? Of course not.

Do I think she could have handled it better, yes and I showed where and why. It isn't about her making him wait, it's about not giving him the tools to deal with the waiting or how to figure out when/how he could ask, in an age (and child) appropriate way.

[steelady]

It really is a shame that we cannot consult bf.com whenever we have to make a decision on how to handle something. We get a variety of answers and reasons and then we can pick whichever is best for us and then do it.

When someone asks me my opinion, I give it.

When I don't want someone's opinion, I don't ask for it.

I'm not sure how you meant this, but I'm bristling a bit in defensiveness since I read this as completely snarky and you may not mean it that way.

[Iconoclast]

"To me, that's not really deliberate disobedience as much as a child not knowing exactly how to proceed to get what he wants."

This is a good point, because so much is in the eye of the beholder. I have a child not much older than the OPs, and were it my child, I know for a fact that he clearly understands "not now, later," and that taking it anyway would be a deliberate act. That kind of disobedience is not tolerated in my home. In the instance of someone else's child whom I obviously do not know well, I can't say for sure.

[jaelwoman]

I didn't get it as snarky Steel, I actually laughed. I think its true, ask a collective group of women what their opinion is and you will get a million different answers. Pick one that matches most closely to what you feel and run with it. At least that is how I took it.

I also agree with something you said that I hadn't thought of. It was about the open endedness. For a 3 year old it probably would be good to say - honey, we aren't going to eat that now, how about after _____. That way he has a time frame in his head.

And jacksmommy, we don't really have separate food either, but sometimes I buy us each treats and if he ate his and tried to eat mine too...there'd be war! LOL (j/k)... (kinda)

[Iconoclast]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justicedog
It really is a shame that we cannot consult bf.com whenever we have to make a decision on how to handle something. We get a variety of answers and reasons and then we can pick whichever is best for us and then do it.

When someone asks me my opinion, I give it.

When I don't want someone's opinion, I don't ask for it.

I'm not sure how you meant this, but I'm bristling a bit in defensiveness since I read this as completely snarky and you may not mean it that way.


I read it as a TIC joke. <shrug>

[Justicedog]

When someone asks me my opinion, I give it.

When I don't want someone's opinion, I don't ask for it.

I'm not sure how you meant this, but I'm bristling a bit in defensiveness since I read this as completely snarky and you may not mean it that way.


I actually think it would be a cool thing to have, be it bf.com or books or whatever. I was trying to make op feel better if she was feeling bad about the advice that was telling her she was wrong.

I think Steel just doesn't like me. :P

[Iconoclast]

Well speaking only for myself, I'm not really saying anything to the OP specifically. I was more speaking to the generalities of the situation. Mostly I was surprised by the opinion that she was being too harsh, since I would have been a tad harsher, lol. Except for the taking the toy part. That would not have been effective with my dc at all, so I'd not have bothered with that step.

[Jacksmommy]

I think that's why the comment that it would be good to have so many opinions - because there really does seem to be a lot of difference of opinion in how to handle the situation.

[steelady]

I actually think it would be a cool thing to have, be it bf.com or books or whatever. I was trying to make op feel better if she was feeling bad about the advice that was telling her she was wrong.

I think Steel just doesn't like me. :P


I completely adore you, which is why I get defensive when I perceive I've disappointed you. I even wrote you in as my presidential candidate, but they really wanted a last name to go with Justicedog, those fascists.

Sigh.

[Justicedog]

I completely adore you, which is why I get defensive when I perceive I've disappointed you. I even wrote you in as my presidential candidate, but they really wanted a last name to go with Justicedog, those fascists.

Sigh.

:blush2: :hug:

It's a conspiracy I tell you, the vast left wing and the vast right wing conspiracies are combining to make it so I can't get elected.

My comment was not at all directed to you and it was completely a sincere thought.

[graciesmommy]

I really think the issue is letting the whole ice cream thing go on for so long. I would have shared it with him, (or just given it to him)even if I didn't want to, while he was asking nicely long before it turned into this huge power struggle.

I have a 3 year old and I think 2-3 days of desperately waiting to eat those gumballs is way too long.

But if she had blatantly disregarded my instructions not once, but twice and snuck to get the ice cream out of the freezer twice in a row, there would be no way in hell, I would share with her then.

I would have thrown it away as well. Again, ice cream is not a huge issue with me and I really would have just let her have it way before it ever got to this point.

[HammBugga]

I agree gracies. I also think that the bigest problem was that you didn't give hima time frame. You just said "whenever I feel like it" basically. I have found that I need to tell B exactly when he can have/do something. Otherwise he obsesses on it and asks constantly and ends up misbehaving because I haven't given him a reasonable time frame.

[JustMoi]

The big deal isn't the ice cream itself. It could have been anything. The big deal is the disobedience. Sorry, but he's NOT too young to learn that what's mine is mine and even if I say I will share it with you that doesn't mean that you decide where/when/how.

I would have eaten it if I'd wanted to, or thrown it out, but you can BET I'd have immediately made him spit out what he he had and made it abundantly clear that his disobedience was NOT acceptable.

See, if I caught my dh eating my ice-cream (kind of hard to imagine actually because we don't really do the whole mine and thine thing - pretty much everything is "ours"), I'd just laugh and say,"Did you need some ice-cream, honey?" - if I said anything at all. It's ice-cream. It's just ice-cream. How can anyone make a big deal out of ice-cream?

[Jacksmommy]

See I disagree with that. It's disobedience over ice-cream. - not something important. It makes a difference to me. He didn't sneak out of the house or set something on fire or hurt someone. He took ice-cream. It was an opportunity to teach him generosity by sharing. It was an opportunity to be compassionate and see that he'd really tried to wait and to share but his 3 year old impulses got the better of him. Some rules must be strongly enforced. I agree with that. I just don't think this was something that needed to be a big deal at all.

[Jacksmommy]

By the way the quote of mine is about my husband - not my son.

[cream_city]

I agree with those who've said it doesn't matter what it was over. It is the taking of the ice cream when he'd been told not to, and the disobedience, that would be an issue. I think 3 y.o. is an appropriate age to be taught those kind of boundaries.

I also am surprised at those who say they wouldn't have let it get to that point. Hasn't anyone besides me said no to something, and then had it turn into some huge deal, but by then you have to stick to what you said for consistency?

I wish I were psychic and knew what things were going to become huge issues, because obviously the ensuing power struggles are about just that -- power -- and not the supposed subject, in this case the ice cream.

I guess I'm rambling, I just can't help thinking that I could have easily said no to the ice cream without realizing it was going to become this big deal.

[JustMoi]

Obedience is ALWAYS important, regardless of what it's about.

See I disagree with that. It's disobedience over ice-cream. - not something important. It makes a difference to me. He didn't sneak out of the house or set something on fire or hurt someone. He took ice-cream. It was an opportunity to teach him generosity by sharing. It was an opportunity to be compassionate and see that he'd really tried to wait and to share but his 3 year old impulses got the better of him. Some rules must be strongly enforced. I agree with that. I just don't think this was something that needed to be a big deal at all.

[Jacksmommy]

I disagree.

[Tweet]

Why is obedience "always" important? The way I see it,sometimes questioning isn't a bad thing and really can be important.

[Iconoclast]

I keep telling myself to let it go, but this amazes me. Direct insubordination is OK? Directly disobeying is OK? Asking why is sometimes OK, but in my house it has to be enough that I say so. I am not authoritarian, but I am authoritative. This is not a democracy, things are not up for duscission unless I say, "let's discuss...." I am the boss, and that is all they need to understand (and my three year olds understood it well). I guess if anarchy works for you, so be it, but I could never have made it through teen years without clear boundaries and consistant enforcement.

and that is really all I'm going to say about it. except maybe goodluck, because things are going to get rocky later on!

[Amy_G_]

Iconoclast,
how old ar your kids?
Mine are 8 and 12, and very well behaved children. but they still say no sometimes and after I yell "what?!!" ;) they explain and often they have a really good reason why they are saying no.
I like that in them.

[JustMoi]

Big difference between children that age, and a three year old. A three year old doesn't have the ability to reason - life at that age is, and should be, black and white. Yes or no. Mom said no, that means NO. You disobey, you get punished. Simple, really.

Iconoclast,
how old ar your kids?
Mine are 8 and 12, and very well behaved children. but they still say no sometimes and after I yell "what?!!" ;) they explain and often they have a really good reason why they are saying no.
I like that in them.

[bebeisa]

I wish I were psychic and knew what things were going to become huge issues, because obviously the ensuing power struggles are about just that -- power -- and not the supposed subject, in this case the ice cream.

I agree with this statement. I do not think EM thought it would become a power struggle when she said they could have it later. I agree with others that said that it is not about the ice cream but about the fact that he did something he was told not to do. He was not denied the ice cream, just told they could have it later. He might be too young to understand but just because he is only 3 does not mean she needed to give in to him and not teach him a lesson that mommy is the "authority" in the house.

[nicurn]

Darn. I was all het up to argue this, and then I read what jaelwoman wrote.

Sigh...ITA.

[Earthmama]

wow, so yeah, welcome to the next trainwreck thread :blush:

It really is a shame that we cannot consult bf.com whenever we have to make a decision on how to handle something. We get a variety of answers and reasons and then we can pick whichever is best for us and then do it.
Actually, that's why I'm so addicted to this place! I really love seeing all the different ideas and perspectives you girls bring to the discussions.

You would be called childish if you took something away from your dh and ate it in front of him, or threw it away so he couldn't have it...Would you want your child to treat another child with that kind of disrespect?

Children aren't dogs that are disobedient and need to be trained and put in their place. ...

What if a friend of your child took your child's ice cream out of the freezer and was eating it after being told they would share later. How would you want your child to handle it?

How bout?
I see you just couldn't wait, could you? You know that was my ice cream, and you should have waited for me. How bout you go put it back in the freezer while I get ready and then we'll go finish it together?
Italics Mine

I can see that in the OP I didn't mention that I intended to share it with him as soon as I was done in the bathroom. I think I told him that, but it's possible I didn't make it clear. I don't remember the exact words anymore.

Also the other scenarios you list aren't ones in which the would-be-sharer-of-the-ice-cream was in a position of teaching/rule making.

DS & I do not have a peer-level relationship, unlike the parties in both scenarios you illustrated.

And as for the italicized part - For me this wasn't so much a matter of obedience as respect of that which belongs to other people.

I think it is very important to teach children to respect things that belong to other people and not to take advantage of them. This includes their bodies (and yes, their ice cream) and their boundaries in general. And it is my hope that by being thorough in teaching that from the beginning, that I will never have to worry about him getting his teen/young adult self chased down by any shotgun toting fathers.


To me, that's not really deliberate disobedience as much as a child not knowing exactly how to proceed to get what he wants. IMO, as a learning moment for the mom, it is better to give hard and fast time tables (and the child the means to understand it) to help them-i.e try to set him up for success rather than failure-deal with the waiting.

This makes a lot of sense and I will try to apply it to future situations.


See I disagree with that. It's disobedience over ice-cream. - not something important. ... Some rules must be strongly enforced. I agree with that. I just don't think this was something that needed to be a big deal at all.

If it's important enough to be a rule, it should be important enough to enforce. I don't want to raise a person who will treat the rules as pick and choose - analyzing, questioning, challenging are ok at times. But give me a good reason. Just breaking a rule because he wants to - not good enough.


A three year old doesn't have the ability to reason - life at that age is, and should be, black and white.

I have to disagree with this. I have seen my 3 year old reason. And it's something I want to encourage and nurture.



Now, I wonder how many more posts have gone up since I opened the page. lol

[Amy_G_]

I was gonna quote you, but I don't have time/enegy to fix all the nested quotes.

Earthmama you said "Also the other scenarios you list aren't ones in which the would-be-sharer-of-the-ice-cream was in a position of teaching/rule making.

DS & I do not have a peer-level relationship, unlike the parties in both scenarios you illustrated."

A 3 year old learns how to react with all kinds of people by watching you. I don't have a peer to peer relationship with my children, but I have a human to human relationship with them, and that carries over as an example to them of how to treat other people, peers and elders alike.

I try to treat my kids the way I would like to be treated. whether it's a big issue or some smaller issue. I also choose my battles. Some things aren't worth even commenting on. Honest. If you comment/discipline/try to fix every single thing every day that your child does "wrong" you tend to become very negative in your parenting. Many things are learned much much better by modeling or praising proper behavior, rather than drawing attention, lecturing and punishing for the poor behavior.

If you expect 100% obedience at every turn, prompt obedience, done without questioning, you are an authoritarian parent. MOST people don't parent like that any more, most use a combinations of styles, with a little authoritarian thrown in occassionally. My dad was of that school of discipline/obedience. "I said jump, and I mean jump NOW." and the only proper reply was "how high?" His was definitely not in a peer or friend relationship with his children even when they reached adulthood.

There is more to this situation than the child showing respect for your property/ice cream. It's the adult showing respect for the child's feelings, social courtesy that the child is learning at your knee, as well as showing respect for the child's ability level. A child of age 3 can reason, but cannot fully think things thru at an adult level. they understand sharing, respect, waiting patiently, and even obedience to mom's wishes--but they do not comprehend those topics at an adult level. Their cognitive development hasn't reached that stage.

Educational psychology has a lot to say about cognitive developmental stages. It's not always a matter of teaching them these things, but of teaching it in different ways as they mature where eventually it clicks because their brain has matured enough for them to understand the concept fully.

[Earthmama]

Amy, my 3 year old learns right from wrong with me. Taking other people's things is wrong. It's a battle I'm willing to fight.

He can learn how to interact with his peers by watching how I interact with my peers or by interacting with his classmates.

And I truly hope you aren't suggesting that I'm treating my child as less than human.

I'm starting to feel like some of your response is not even related to the incident I described.

Perhaps I take for granted that so many of the posters on here know a bit about my parenting style.

If the obvious internal conflict in the OP didn't hint at my not walking the authoritarian road, I'll add that I'm teased by my parents for asking DS to make his own choices, offer his opinion on everyday matters, listening to his protests when he disagrees with a request & explain things to him instead of spanking him.

You'll also notice I never argued FOR my method of teaching the lesson. Only for the value of the lesson I was trying to teach. It was the method I came to question.

There's so much more I want to say right now - but I won't. I'll just assume I'm reading more accusation and judgment in your post than you intended.

[Tweet]

I think you may see judgment because you basically put the scenario out there to BE judged. Most of us that have disagreed haven't been overly critical,though. And many of us have pointed out our own shortcomings.

But truly, if you don't feel that what you did was the wrong way to handle it, why ask about it? Just be confident in the choice you made.

[Earthmama]

My latest post was adressed to AmyG because I felt she was making assumptions on my parenting style as a whole, though I was talking in the OP about one out-of-the-ordinary-situation that I didn't like.

I didn't feel it was the wrong lesson to teach my son - but like I said, the way I handled it was what I came to discuss. I didn't feel that was right. And I've gained some valuable ideas on this thread.

No, most of the posts have not been critical - that's why I only addressed AmyG and only for her latest post.

Even AmyG's other posts have given me a different perspective I can learn from.

But that last one appeared to address me directly, and make a lot of assumptions and judgments that reach beyond the scenario at hand.

[Amy_G_]

Many of the posters who answered you, were of the opinion that not only were you right, that you didn't go far enough--perhaps you should have thrown away the ice cream and the gum balls and then not let him have ice cream for a while to remind him how wrong this all was.

I got kind of perturbed about that, as that is way harsher than a 3 year old needs, regardless of how advanced they are, or what the purpose the parent wanted to make the point. my harshness comes from that, and is carrying over toward you(specifically you, and generally the you of the bf.com posters. ) kwim?

a 3 year old doesn't always learn how to interact with their peers by watching how adults interact with each other. there are lots of things that adults do when interacting with peers that would be inappropriate when they are only 3. sometimes it is indeed best to "get down on their level" and interact the way a 3 year old should react to another 3 year old and I don't mean throw a temper tantrum. ;)

And this is the debate board. I've been walking on eggshells and talking about as nice as possible on the general breastfeeding support board a LOT lately. Sometimes you might catch me showing my awful judgemental side.

[Earthmama]

In light of that - my feathers are no longer ruffled.

I figured it was kinda toward harsher practices than I expressed. I just ended up as the figurehead for a somewhat wider-reaching address. lol (Does that even make sense?)

[Sunnie]

I personally think it's mean to tell your 3 yr old you'll share it, then put it away for 3 days and keep telling him No. How long did you expect him to wait? 3 yr olds just can't wait that long. A few hours, fine. But 3 days? That's just asking too much.

And then to eat it in front of him?

[Amy_G_]

Sunnie,
how bout those who said they'd not only take the ice cream away from him, but throw it in the trash, make his throw away the gum balls and not let him have ice cream for a while so he'll remember his disobedience? All in the name of discipline and obedience?

[Sunnie]

I can't even touch that one Amy.

The eating it in front of him really, really bothers me. My father used to eat treats in front of me. All the time. Cakes, candies, cookies. And I was never allowed to have any.

I got spanked once because he was teasing me with a chocolate and I thought he was going to actually let me have it so I took it out of his hands and ate it. I really thought it was good natured teasing and he was going to eventually let me have it. He got pissed with me and I still dont' understand why.

I was much older than 3, as well.

[Amy_G_]

yeah, discipline and obedience about a lot of things is easier than any dealing with food. Food issues are hard, cause they can have a lot of ramifications.
I'm sorry your father was like that.

[Sunnie]

Food issues are hard, cause they can have a lot of ramifications.

Yes. Food is my biggest issue IRT parenting. Oy

[Amy_G_]

My dh has tons of eating issues,
and he doesn't like to admit to them, nor change his ways.

His attitudes toward food are rubbing off on my children, and it's very difficult to offset what he says with good sound advice, not equate love with food, not equate all celebrations on happy times with food, etc. and not equate punishments with food either.

My mom "rewarded" my family with dessert every night, cause dinner might have been beans or boiled cabbage or something she felt was a poor quality meal. So I've had my own issues of food to work thru and not pass on to my children.

of course, no matter what we do as parents, our children will end up with some kind of issue/behavior/attitude that is our fault. right?

but that's another post, for another day.

[BeanBabies]

See I disagree with that. It's disobedience over ice-cream. - not something important. It makes a difference to me. He didn't sneak out of the house or set something on fire or hurt someone. He took ice-cream. It was an opportunity to teach him generosity by sharing. It was an opportunity to be compassionate and see that he'd really tried to wait and to share but his 3 year old impulses got the better of him. Some rules must be strongly enforced. I agree with that. I just don't think this was something that needed to be a big deal at all.


I agree completely. (bold mine)

[BeanBabies]

Sunnie,
how bout those who said they'd not only take the ice cream away from him, but throw it in the trash, make his throw away the gum balls and not let him have ice cream for a while so he'll remember his disobedience? All in the name of discipline and obedience?
That's what's so hard. How to decide what's "black and white" and what's "the grey area". This situation - to me - was grey area. The whole "it's out and out disobedience" stuff is waaaay over the top to me in this situation.

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast,
how old ar your kids?
Mine are 8 and 12, and very well behaved children. but they still say no sometimes and after I yell "what?!!" ;) they explain and often they have a really good reason why they are saying no.
I like that in them.

I do not disclose how many cildren I have or their gender or ages. I will only say that I have a large family and their ages span from not much older than the child in the OP to college age.

I don't have anything else to add to this thread.

[jodibug]

I would never expect a three year old to wait two days, nor would I eat ice cream in front of my young children.

(I do eat it in front of my teenagers sometimes.... but that is a little different).

I'm not saying that it was *wrong*... just not the way I would have handled it.

[jodibug]

I would never expect a three year old to wait two days, nor would I eat ice cream in front of my young children.

(I do eat it in front of my teenagers sometimes.... but that is a little different).

I'm not saying that it was *wrong*... just not the way I would have handled it.


eta: of course I have never been "not ready" to eat ice cream either. ;)