smokers vs obese?

[bocarioja]

Why is it more socially acceptable to tell a smoker, cigarette in hand, that their habit is unhealthy, but a social hell-no to tell an overweight/obese person with junk food on their plate that their diet is unhealthy?

FTR, I quit months ago, just an honest observation and question.

[QuiltyConscience]

I think it's rude to go up either one to tell them they are unhealthy. Most likely, they already know. Unsolicited advice is rarely welcomed.

[jessiehannan]

I don't do either, because people know what they are doing when they are smoking or eating junk.
People are just rude.

[Nipple_nectar]

I am obese. There was a small time frame when I wasn't~ it was when I was a smoker.

[bocarioja]

If I walked up to a smoker and said, "You know that is a filthy, disgusting habit" I doubt *very many* people would point out my rudeness. Hell, many may even agree with me. (Not all, but many)...

If I walked up to an obese person eating a doughnut (rude example, I know) and said something similar, I would without a doubt--be considered rude and insensitive.

Are both of these examples really on the same playing field?

[hotlama]

Second hand obesity isn't going to physically harm my child when they walk past an obese person.

Second hand obesity won't cause an asthmatic person to have an attack.

When teenagers look at obesity they don't think "oh, that's cool, I think I'll try it".


I have asked a smoker not to smoke because they are around my children. Especially at playgrounds. I would never tell them that it's unhealthy. They already know that.

[Funmommy]

It's Rude to do either
but being over weight and eating doesn't hurt anyone else other than
the one who's eating whereas smoking effects everyone around them.
It's still rude either way though.

Funmommy

[bocarioja]

Second hand obesity isn't going to physically harm my child when they walk past an obese person.

Second hand obesity won't cause an asthmatic person to have an attack.

When teenagers look at obesity they don't think "oh, that's cool, I think I'll try it".


I have asked a smoker not to smoke because they are around my children. Especially at playgrounds. I would never tell them that it's unhealthy. They already know that.

This is very true.


Devis advicate, now...
However, one could argue that because there are so many obese people, it has become more socially acceptable to not live a healthy lifestyle. Kids may not want to eat veggies and exercise because junk food and video games are more fun, plus use the excuse "a lot of my friends are as big as me."

I don't think being overweight or fat is contagous, but there are patterns of unhealthy weights, just like smoking.

[still_me]

I think both are equally as rude. Who am I to say anything to anyone? Hell, who am I to think that of anyone?


I used to smoke and I was as polite as I could be when I did. I only battle with weight in my own mind and I know that it is a vicious and hard battle. Either way, I know those who are smoking or over weight know their situation.



Side step: My sister was 110 lbs and 5' 5". People (strangers even) constantly made comments about her size. I have seen people come right out and ask her if she was anorexic or bulimic. I have seen women look at her with disgust and be rude to her because of her size. I learned that too many people are invested in a strangers life. She, btw, isn't anorexic or bulimic. She has always been small since she was kid. I told her one time that I was going to get a shirt made saying, "I am going to puke if one more person asks me if I am bulimic" I didn't want to offend someone who was battling it though.

[bocarioja]

I've heard my share of offensive/rude skinny comments. At one point I was 104 lbs at 5'8". I still battle ED everyday, though I am up to 125.

Why people feel the need to state comments on appearance and lifestyle is beyond me. Why some seem more socially acceptable than others is what I'm trying to figure out.

[still_me]

I've heard my share of offensive/rude skinny comments. At one point I was 104 lbs at 5'8". I still battle ED everyday, though I am up to 125.

Why people feel the need to state comments on appearance and lifestyle is beyond me. Why some seem more socially acceptable than others is what I'm trying to figure out.


Maybe it is because most of the population doesn't smoke, but most do eat junk food on a regular basis or as a treat. Smoking to them doesn't hit close to home, but junk food does.

[jessiehannan]

I do ask a smoker to smoke downwind or away from the kids and to dispose of their cigarette butts properly at a playground, but don't tell them that smoking is a disgusting nasty habit.
I think that habitual rudeness is just as bad as smoking and overeating.

[irisheyes81]

I know you were playing devil's advocate...but in response to the kids learning lifestyle from obesity...

I could see the children of obese parents having a higher chance of being obese themselves. Other people's children, though, would most likely learn their lifestyle habits from their own families. My family is very lean. My great-grandmother was lean: her kids took after her active lifestyle and eating habits. And it continues with each generation. My own children are very healthy weights...not overly skinny, but nice and lean. A friend of mine, though, has an obese mother and is starting down the same path. She has tried to fight it by starving herself, which her own mother did back and forth her entire younger life. So, I think we learn from those we are raised with how to eat and live.

[Hennyetta]

another reason it may be more socially acceptable is that you still have to eat to live. so it is more acceptable to make poor eating choices.

you DO NOT have to smoke to live, so people have no qualms saying you shouldn't smoke or that it is disgusting.

[steelady]

If I walked up to a smoker and said, "You know that is a filthy, disgusting habit" I doubt *very many* people would point out my rudeness. Hell, many may even agree with me. (Not all, but many)...

If I walked up to an obese person eating a doughnut (rude example, I know) and said something similar, I would without a doubt--be considered rude and insensitive.

Are both of these examples really on the same playing field?


Only to here, so I reserve the right to change my mind, but yes, i do see them on the same playing field-that of unsolicited advice.

If one must do something like that (some real, internal motivation out of the concern for the person) it can be done in a tactful way, which doesn't change the fact that it is rude.

Now if someone were to go to the smoker to complain about it effecting their (the person talking, not the smoker's) health, I don't think it is necessarily rude.

[Iconoclast]

I don't know where you live, but in my circle either scenario would be equally unacceptable.

[Funmommy]

Genetics has something to do with it too though.

I'm Obese / DS1&2 Biological is obese
DS1 is a healthy weight
DS2 is SLIGHTLY overweight

DH is only slightly overweight
DS3 is a scrawney little thing (healthy though)
DD is showing up so far as being on the tiny side too

We usually eat reasonably healthy at home
however I am the biggest cheater when it comes to sweets :P
and I have problems excercising because of medical problems :(
Hence me being obese

Funmommy

[steelady]

I've heard my share of offensive/rude skinny comments. At one point I was 104 lbs at 5'8". I still battle ED everyday, though I am up to 125.

Why people feel the need to state comments on appearance and lifestyle is beyond me. Why some seem more socially acceptable than others is what I'm trying to figure out.


IMO, pure and simple, it is more socially acceptable because smoking isn't socially acceptable in many areas (and that is growing).

Poor food choices *are* socially acceptable. If they weren't McD's wouldn't have sold a gazillion burgers. Pizza and beer commercials wouldn't be considered funny, etc.

heck, we can't advertise cigarettes on TV (but we can advertise against them) but we rarely even see anything related to poor eating choices/obesity commercials (public service ones, like anti-smoking and anti-drug) on TV.

[irisheyes81]

I could see saying something to someone (in both situations) that was related to me, or a close friend that I was actually worried about their health. I would never walk up to a stranger and tell them that I think their smoking/eating habits are terrible and they need to change it, though. I wouldn't want someone I don't know to come up to me and complain about some odd habit I had that they didn't like. Most of the time, if someone is smoking near me, I would just move...unless they are smoking in a place they are not allowed to. And if an obese person is eating something unhealthy...well, that doesn't hurt me in anyway, so I definitely wouldn't say anything to them.

[bocarioja]

IMO, pure and simple, it is more socially acceptable because smoking isn't socially acceptable in many areas (and that is growing).

Poor food choices *are* socially acceptable. If they weren't McD's wouldn't have sold a gazillion burgers. Pizza and beer commercials wouldn't be considered funny, etc.

heck, we can't advertise cigarettes on TV (but we can advertise against them) but we rarely even see anything related to poor eating choices/obesity commercials (public service ones, like anti-smoking and anti-drug) on TV.

These are great points. I tend to agree... but

Both smoking and weight related medical problems are a burden for our healthcare system. If smoking is socially unacceptable, why shouldn't unhealthy food choices (including alcohol) also be considered fair game for attack?

Does it have something to do with not wanting to hurt feelings of heavier people? Or with drinking addiction issues?

Not that *I* would attack, especially given my past experiences... just sayin...

[steelady]

These are great points. I tend to agree... but

Both smoking and weight related medical problems are a burden for our healthcare system. If smoking is socially unacceptable, why shouldn't unhealthy food choices (including alcohol) also be considered fair game for attack?

Not that *I* would attack, especially given my past experiences... just sayin...

I don't think they are different, but are at different stages of development, so to speak.

Currently, food choices are considered a private, personal, thing. I think, overall, obesity is being treated in a serious manner (especially childhood obesity, IME). However, we are seeing legislation (to some extent) on attacking it from a public health perspective-CA, NYC, Philly all have bans on the type of fat that can be sold to consumers (Trans fat ban). Packages are labeled with fat content, calories, etc.

Smoking was considered healthy at one point. It was encouraged, or at least not actively discouraged. It was the norm. Then we learned about second hand smoke, lung cancer links, etc. Now smoking (in the US anyway) is becoming more unacceptable (I think even Paris has some sort of smoking ban??).

Now we are starting to realize the links between our food choices and future health, so things are changing. The big problem, as I see it, is there are so many factors that go into the health related issues of obesity-genetics, injury/illness, affordability of good food choices, etc.

[bocarioja]

Steel,

In your opinion,
Do you think this means that the personal attack for food choices will soon be more socially acceptable?

[Babyhellfire]

I think it's rude to go up either one to tell them they are unhealthy. Most likely, they already know. Unsolicited advice is rarely welcomed.
ICAM.

[MrsKitty]

I think there is a big difference depending on the situation.

When being told how to loose weight in a healthy way, we are told not to restrict, not to deny treats, to do everything in moderation. What if an overweight/obese person is doing just that. They have changed their lifestyle, they are making healthier food choices, they are becoming active, but they are also not restricting or dieting because they have decided that is not the healthy route to go. So there they are after eating splendidly for a week and some yoyo who thinks it is their buisness to yap at other people comes up and points out that the bag of chips in that persons hand is causing them to be fat. You don't know the situation.

Maybe that is their 5th bag of chips that day. Maybe they have lost 50lbs through healthful choices and are continuing that way. You don't know and it is just not your place to go up and make assumptions like that. What if that person had a glandular disorder and eats extreamly healthy and decided to have a treat for "once and a while".

There is this idea that only skinny people are allowed junk. No one bats an eyelash at a skinny girl ordering a Big Mac but if you see a fat person do it, eyes are rolled. "If they stopped eating here they wouldn't be such a lard ass". How do you know that? What if this is their only Big Mac this month?

Something else to consider is eating disorders. Yes, many people become obese through poor food choices, an inactive lifestyle, maybe a lack of education on how to nourish yourself properly. I am sure there are tons of contributing factors.

One is eating disorders. Binge eating and compulsive eating disorder are real serious eating disorders. No one takes it seriously. Anorexia and Bulumia are viewed as these serious horrible mental health disorders, and Binge Eaters are just looked at as having "no control". Telling a binge eater "Don't eat those three boxes of kraft dinner..and then those chips..and then the 2L of pop...oh or that pizza to finish it off" doesn't help anymore then telling an anorexic "Hey just go eat a sandwich"

The food is NOT the problem. If all you had to do was eat more or less to cure an eating disorder, you wouldn't have people dying from them. It is not about the food, it is about the mental state of the disordered eater.

Not to mention, smoking or obesity... most people are not in denile about the health risks.When I was a smoker people used to tell me I was going to get cancer and die young and all this stuff. I always came back with "I do realize that, I am able to read...but the funny thing about having an addiction ...is that you are addicted".

Smoking as well..at first glance you don't know what kind of smoker they are (well..maybe if they are in a chair on oxygen with a trach..but you know what I mean). Maybe that person smokes two packs a day. Or maybe one. Or maybe they smoke once a month as a coping mechanism for stress, or maybe it was just "one of those days" and they grabbed one smoke for comfort, or maybe they are actively quitting but not going cold turkey. My friend is quitting right now with great success. Her roommate started her off with six smokes a day for a week, and every week they take off one cigarette. She is doing great with this approach. You just don't know the situation.

People make these snap judgments all the time. They see a mother snap at their kids in the groccery store and freak out that the mother is this horrible bitch, when perhaps that mother had the patient of a saint and was just pushed over the edge that one moment. People see someone dress a certain way and assume they must be a slut or a druggie or stupid or intelligent because they feel that the 30seconds they saw this person on the street was enough to give them this power of divine judgment.

So make those judgments if you feel you must. But keep them to yourself. There is a big difference between politely asking someone not smoke near your children and telling them they have a disgusting habit and are going to die soon.

Now if it was a close family member who observed your eating/smoking habits every day, I can understand a concerned friend or family member gently saying something. But just seeing someone smoking on the street corner or sitting in a booth eating a dough nut? Screw off.

[Funmommy]

Some obese people however have medical problems that can cause obesity issues.
I hate it when someone is "classified" when they're over weight.
Some Can't exercise, some have medical problems that cause obesity,
some have medical conditions where they're bodies are constantly telling
them they're hungry. But they're all classified the same

However no one can see these problems or even know of some of these problems.
all they can see is that the person is obese and they judge them because of it.
Walking is free but not all of us CAN walk for the time it would take to make a difference.

I know this is a small group of people but you can never tell just by looking at them
what the reasons are behind something.

It goes the same for those who are super thin too. I knew someone who is they didn't eat every 2-3 hours that they ran the risk of passing out because their blood sugars would get too low. And nope they were not a diabetic on insulin.

So IMO while it is really rude to comment "Rudely" to someone who's smoking
it's even worse to make a comment to someone who's battling obesity or is super skinny and who's medical conditions you don't even know.


Funmommy

Yup I guess a sore spot was hit

[TuetonicWillow]

When teenagers look at obesity they don't think "oh, that's cool, I think I'll try it".





But they do.

When obesity is the norm (and in our socieity it pretty much is) it's accepted. So that 5'5 225lb sophomore isn't the odd one out, she's like half the class.

The impact of obesity doesn't hit home when you take for granted seeing it everyday.

[MrsKitty]

I know this is a small group of people but you can never tell just by looking at them
what the reasons are behind something.



So IMO while it is really rude to comment "Rudely" to someone who's smoking
it's even worse to make a comment to someone who's battling obesity or is super skinny and who's medical conditions you don't even know.



*claps*

[MrsKitty]

But they do.

When obesity is the norm (and in our socieity it pretty much is) it's accepted. So that 5'5 225lb sophomore isn't the odd one out, she's like half the class.

The impact of obesity doesn't hit home when you take for granted seeing it everyday.




It dosen't matter if that is half the class. Those people are still ridiculed and teased and called horrible names and discriminated against. Maybe they feel "well I guess it is okay...I am not the only one this big...I mean Theresa is bigger then I am"

But to think it is cool? To see an obese person and say hey that is cool I am going to try that? Do you sincerely beleive that anyone thinks that way? That a healthy and active teen is going to see someone obese and choose that because their friends look like that?

[bocarioja]

Perhaps they do not think being fat is "cool" but there does arise a lack of motivation to change your lifestyle when you see others looking just like you-- or bigger.

I used the fact that "everyone in my office smokes" as an excuse to keep smoking for months. It didn't make it "cool," but it was tough to get motivated.

[TuetonicWillow]

I was saying it's acceptable, not preferable. I doubt anyone WANTS to be fat, but there is less incentive to lose wieght and stay fit when most people ARE fat.

[steelady]

Steel,

In your opinion,
Do you think this means that the personal attack for food choices will soon be more socially acceptable?


Actually, yes, I do.

[irisheyes81]

Yes, I don't think teenageers think it is "cool" to be overweight or obese. I know there was one obese teenage girl in my daughter's preschool (the teenagers were taking a class to help learn teaching skills). It was painfully obvious how uncomfortable she was, especially since she was surrounded by other girls that were a lot more athletic looking, or just naturally thin.

[irisheyes81]

Honestly, whenever I feel like I'm getting a little bigger than I'd like, or see people I have known to be smaller getting bigger, I am more motivated to go to the gym. Or cut out that extra soda I might have had during the day.

[steelady]

Yes, I don't think teenageers think it is "cool" to be overweight or obese. I know there was one obese teenage girl in my daughter's preschool (the teenagers were taking a class to help learn teaching skills). It was painfully obvious how uncomfortable she was, especially since she was surrounded by other girls that were a lot more athletic looking, or just naturally thin.


It may be regional. I often see young women (as an example) who are overweight wearing very tight and revealing clothing-the same type as their more slender peers are wearing. I see no obvious embarressment for their extra pounds (or curves/bulges).

I've often both admired and been concerned about these girls. On the one hand, having grown up overweight as a teen, the self-esteem/confidence these girls has is awesome to see; I know I didn't have it at that age (and size). On the other hand, I'm not talking about girls who appear athletic and toned, but out of shape and I can see how they may face a lot of health problems later in life.

[TuetonicWillow]

It may be regional. I often see young women (as an example) who are overweight wearing very tight and revealing clothing-the same type as their more slender peers are wearing. I see no obvious embarressment for their extra pounds (or curves/bulges).
.


You should see what some people wear at the local amusement parks. I've seen very obese, I mean BMI had to be 40 or more, girls waddling around in bikinis. MY first thought isn't, "good for them, now that's confidence" it's "omg that poor girl will be insulin dependant before she's 30 and she's in for infertility and cardiac probelms... and she doesn't seem to give a shit with that double churro in her hand."


It's not about judging anyone's appearance. That's just the red herring people toss in there to avoid the pink elephant in the rorom. Being too overwieght is more dangerous to your health than most people want to really admit.

[Meredith]

another reason it may be more socially acceptable is that you still have to eat to live. so it is more acceptable to make poor eating choices.

This is what I was thinking. I'm obese, and it's honestly very difficult for me to eat anything - healthy or otherwise - in public. I always feel like people are looking at me in disgust - even if I'm eating a spring green salad. Also, a lot of diets, like Weight Watchers and similar eating plans, allow for occasional "cheating", so an obese person eating a donut or getting a Big Mac could be using their Flexpoints for the week.

Smoking, however, is still unhealthy, even when done in moderation.

All that being said, I think it's rude to comment on either one.

[irisheyes81]

Yes, it might be regional. I do see girls, both thin and not, that wear clothes that do not fit them, since at that age the size on the tag matters sooo much. So, you'll even have super skinny girls squeezing themselves into those negative 0 pants, which then fit them like skin and the little bit of "fat" they have squeezes out. I don't know if it is confidence as much as wanting to be able to say they wear a smaller size than they actually do.

[MrsKitty]

I was saying it's acceptable, not preferable. I doubt anyone WANTS to be fat, but there is less incentive to lose wieght and stay fit when most people ARE fat.

When you reply to


When teenagers look at obesity they don't think "oh, that's cool, I think I'll try it".


with

But they do.


It kind of looks like you were saying that.

[MrsKitty]

I don't know if it is nessicarly confidence..it could be insecurity. Feeling unattractive and thinking that maybe by dressing in reveling/sexy clothes that they will feel more attractive?

[TrueGRITS]

As a overweight person ~ who is working on losing her weight...the only thing that bothers me is the general oppinion that overweight people are lazy. I am NOT lazy. I am a pound away from being under the 200 mark ~ yay me :) ~ and I run 2 miles 3-4 days a week. I hate hearing conversations on the elliptical machines behind me between two skinny people (yes, recently) on how they would die before being fat and unhealthy.

I think it is rude either way. It is something that is known on both sides that is unhealthy.

[Mom2B]

I have to say I use to weigh 400 lbs and after surgery 4 years ago I now weigh 150.
Obesity is a disease. It is an addiction to food. Anyone that has never suffered with obesity has no idea what it is like to have to feel the stares and hear the rude mumbles and sneers and snickers from other people. It is MAY not seem rude to some people to make comments to and obese person, but it plainly is RUDE. We get enough BS from others and believe it or not SOME not ALL obese people are suffering with something else that is leading to the obesity. For EXAMPLE: I had very very low self esteem and food became my best friend. It was always there for me never talked back and always seemed to love me back NO MATTER WHAT. I highly doubt there are teenagers that see and obese person and think to themselves, "Gee i want their life."

The saying, "Walk a mile in my shoes.." applies here.

As far as cigarette smoking goes YES it is an addiction like food, BUT as a previous post says, "second hand obesity never killed anyone." Standing downwind from a cooking steak, MAY make you hungry, but it won't kill you like cigarette smoke will. You can quit smoking, but just try to quit eating. Your body goes into starvation mode then self preservation mode and then it is even harder to lose weight.

I had to learn the motto "EAT TO LIVE DON'T LIVE TO EAT"
We can live without smoking, but you can't without eating.

DISCLAIMER: All of this is IMO and I am not setting out to hurt anyone's feelings. So if I have offended anyone I apologize in advance.

[steelady]

I don't know if it is nessicarly confidence..it could be insecurity. Feeling unattractive and thinking that maybe by dressing in reveling/sexy clothes that they will feel more attractive?

It is a confidence, though, or seems like it. I don't know how to explain it, it's the way they walk, talk, etc. I can discern no difference in outlook/esteem between them (the few times i've interacted).

[pawprint]

This is what I was thinking. I'm obese, and it's honestly very difficult for me to eat anything - healthy or otherwise - in public. I always feel like people are looking at me in disgust - even if I'm eating a spring green salad. I am not obese and I feel like that. It's probably something I should have checked out, because when even when I was sick and ten pounds underweight I hated eating in public. Although for the opposite reason. I felt liek people were judging me for not eating more.

[Prisca]

I think it's terribly rude to harrass someone who smokes (assuming I'm not in a situation where I have no choice other than to breath in said smoke, or my children.)

But I'd say it's seen as a bigger offense to harrass some one for eating, because we all eat. And also it's not like people regularly talk about how disgusting people with lung cancer are, etc. Yet people can be outright cruel to people for being obese. People see obese people as disgusting and indulgent, like anyone really chooses to be that way.

And also, genetics do play a large role. There is no denying the evidence that shows how two people can have the same lifestyle while one will be a "healthy" weight and the other overweight. So two people doing exactly the same thing can and will be judged differently based on their outward appearances.

[Prisca]

I quit smoking because it embarrassed DH so much, lol. Wish I could do the same with losing weight.