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View Full Version : Is the cross a “secular symbol of death”?


JudyJudyJudy
08-22-2008, 04:13 PM
Thoughts?

http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9989

Wednesday, August 6, 2008

AU, Allies Say Officials' Use Of 'Secular' Crosses To Memorialize Utah Highway Patrol Officers Is Offensive And Violates Church-State Separation

The cross is a Christian symbol and government should not try to use it as a secular memorial marker, Americans United for Separation of Church and State has told a federal appeals court.

In a friend-of-the-court brief filed today, Americans United and allied religious leaders and organizations take issue with a federal court decision allowing Utah officials to place crosses along highways to memorialize state highway patrol officers who have died in the line of duty.

State officials insisted that the Christian symbol is a secular symbol and can be used regardless of the personal religious beliefs of the officer being honored.

U.S. District Judge David Sam ruled in November of 2007 that the cross is a “secular symbol of death” and held that Utah officials and the Utah Highway Patrol Association can continue to erect the 12-foot crosses.

Americans United is asking the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the lower court ruling.

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director, said he is offended by the claim that the cross is merely a secular symbol.

“The cross is the preeminent symbol of Christianity,” said Lynn, an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ. “For the government to claim that the cross is a secular symbol is deeply offensive and betrays a poor understanding of religion and our Constitution.”

In its brief, AU points out that the cross has been tied to Christianity for many centuries.

“In upholding the display of roadside crosses on public land throughout the State of Utah, the district court embraced the State’s characterization of the cross the clearest and most universally recognized marker of Christianity as nothing more than a ‘secular symbol of death,’” asserts the brief. “This conclusion is historically inaccurate, blind to contemporary realities, and offensive to believers and nonbelievers alike.”

The brief in American Atheists, Inc. v. Duncan argues that governmental display of the cross violates the constitutional mandate of government neutrality toward religion.

Joining Americans United on the brief are the Anti-Defamation League, the Hindu American Foundation, The Interfaith Alliance, the Union for Reform Judaism and Dr. Eugene Fisher, retired associate director, Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

The brief was prepared by Evan M. Tager, David M. Gossett and Brian M. Willen of the firm Mayer Brown LLP and by Americans United Assistant Legal Director Richard B. Katskee and other members of AU’s legal team.

RaisingThemLeft
08-22-2008, 04:22 PM
This isn't a battle I'd fight. If the officer was Christian, I don't have a problem with them being recognized that way. If not, then it may be a little out of place. No, I don't consider the cross a secular symbol in any way, shape or form. I also find memorials along the highway morbid. It's ok to put it up temporarily, but I don't personally like when they are left up.

JudyJudyJudy
08-22-2008, 04:50 PM
I think it's offensive for both Christians and nonChristians. If I were Christian, I'd be pissed that the cross was referred to as a secular symbol. As a nonChristian, I'm irritated that the cross was used for everyone regardless of religion.

AuLait
08-22-2008, 05:14 PM
What a weird story in that I agree with both sides.

It is somewhat of a secular symbol, in that its used to represent things like the Red Cross and various nations use it on their flags. However it also has strong Christian ties as well. I guess I see it as both secular and religious depending on context. I've known many people who are not Christian to wear crosses. Organizations like the Red Cross or nations that use the symbol on their flags are not Christian.

I do like the idea of memorials for fallen state patrolmen though. Perhaps another shape or design could be used.

JudyJudyJudy
08-22-2008, 05:34 PM
It is somewhat of a secular symbol, in that its used to represent things like the Red Cross and various nations use it on their flags. However it also has strong Christian ties as well. I guess I see it as both secular and religious depending on context. I've known many people who are not Christian to wear crosses. Organizations like the Red Cross or nations that use the symbol on their flags are not Christian.
The cross used by the Red Cross, like the one used by medical facilities, does not look like the Christian cross. The one Utah uses to honor its fallen officers is the Christian cross.


The crosses on most of the national flags are Christian symbols. Here are a few examples:

Nordic Cross flag - The cross design symbolises Christianity and is depicted extending to the edges of the flag with the vertical part of the cross shifted to the hoist side as opposed to flags where the cross is centred on the flag. The first flag with this design was the Danish Dannebrog; thereafter, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, and some of their subdivisions used this as inspiration for their own flags.

A saltire, Saint Andrew's Cross, or crux decussata (though it is never called the last in heraldry), is a heraldic symbol in the form of a diagonal cross or letter X. Saint Andrew is said to have been martyred on such a cross

It forms the national Flag of Scotland and Flag of Jamaica, and appears on many other flags, arms and seals. It is also used as a traffic sign.

Christian symbol
The saltire appears on vexilla that are represented consistently on coinage of Christian emperors of Rome, from the fourth century. Anne Roes found it on coins of Constantius II, Valentinian, Jovian, Gratianus, Valens, Arcadius, Constantine III, Jovinus, Theodosius I, Eugenius and Theodosius II, though she searched only coins at the British Museum.[1] In the ninth and tenth century the saltire was revived in Constantinople as a symbol of Christian-imperial power. Anne Roes detected the symbol, which often appears with balls in the quadrants formed by the arms of the chi-cross, in standards represented on coins of Persepolis, and she suggested that early Christians endorsed its solar symbolism as appropriate to Christ, and suggested "although it cannot be proved, that in the white saltire of St. Andrew we still have a reminiscence of the old standard of the Persepolitan kingdom."[2]

hidesome
08-23-2008, 08:04 AM
I've always thought people should wear little gas chambers around their necks. Modernize, people, modernize.

Babyblue
08-23-2008, 12:18 PM
why not a symbol of whatever religion the officer was?> I would think that would be fair to the officers themselfs. and if the officer had no religion then a simple marker with their name on it.

Sputterduck
08-23-2008, 12:29 PM
I think it's offensive for both Christians and nonChristians. If I were Christian, I'd be pissed that the cross was referred to as a secular symbol. As a nonChristian, I'm irritated that the cross was used for everyone regardless of religion.


Yep.