Remind me again why CIO is bad...

[singin_mama]

because right now I am so tempted.

Sara cries every night from about 9 until about 1. Last night she actually slept and didn't fuss so, but today...She has be so fussy today.

I have tried everything. I have done massage, baths, gripe water, homeopathic colic tablets, Colic Calm...I am at a loss to explain it or do anything about it.

I am just so tired...

[Shaunsmom]

I think that no matter how much baby is crying, that if you let them CIO- they will associate that with an unresponsive parent. Other people that know more about CIO will chime in here.

I am NOT a fan of CIO and will never subject DD to that. It's inhumane. I really do understand your frustration and tiredness. We've all been there. It does get better but sometimes it's later than sooner. I'm so sorry to hear what you are going thru.

[ima062002]

CIO will jack up her heart rate and when she does collapse into sleep it's just that. Not drifiting off into a healthy sleep. It also teaches babies that if they are upset nobody is responding and is in essense a form of abandonment.

Can you get a sling and put her in and go about your evening? My kids did not like to be away from me for the first 6 mo (well my first did, but not the other two) and I had them in a baby bjorn and later in a moby wrap (my absolute favorite because I could do stuff around the house) for a long time.

[singin_mama]

I do have her in the wrap quite a bit. And I have used it at night to get her to sleep. But the problem is that once she's asleep I cannot put her down or she wakes up and we start all over again.

Most days I walk around feeling dizzy from lack of sleep.

I got a book from the library about Colic and it talked about how oftentimes 'colic' is a result of reflux, but Sara doesn't have many of the symptoms of that except the crying. She never spits up, I think she's spit up 5 times since she was born and those times it was just a tiny bit. She doesn't do the arched back thing. I can't remember what other symptoms they listed at the moment.

[Stephanie]

:hug:

Is someone around so you can get a break?

[ima062002]

Do you cosleep? Can dad sling her to give you a couple of hours of break/rest? Cosleeping has saved me from going bokers. I was soooooooooooo sleep deprived with my first (who I didn't cosleep with until she was 18 mo and developed night terrors, they stopped once she moved to our bed) and wasn't nearly half as tired with my other two.

[LittleRonMom]

I'm sure my answer won't be popular, but I believe babies learn to self-soothe at a very early age. I'm a believer of putting baby in crib from the time you come home, feeding and comforting the baby until it's time for sleep and then put her/him in the crib and if everything is okay (no wet diaper, no rash, fed, etc.) close the door and walk away. If crying starts check on baby every 5 minutes. I have a 16 month old who slept thru the night at 8 1/2 weeks on. We had two tough nights back to back - about 4 weeks in. She cried the first night for 45 minutes straight (I went in every 5 minutes to assure she was okay, I didn't pick her up though. Just patted her and sang to her to let her know I was there and assured her she wasn't alone.) The next night she cried for 15 minutes. Since then, my girl goes down without a hitch. I think it's harder on the parent, than the baby to listen to the cries. I read Baby Wise - I followed about 60% of it and it has worked for me and about 10 of my closest friends, who all recommended it to me, as I was the last to have a child. The book says clearly - what is the worst thing a baby will get from crying? Probably a headache. All this mumbo jumbo about feeling abandoned, I just don't agree with. Come on -- what is our first memory? You need to be able to teach that baby that it doesn't need to be rocked to sleep, co-sleep, or develop any other "crutches"...unless you want to spend a good portion of the next several years "coaxing" that baby to sleep every night. You can love a baby completely and still teach it how to go to sleep on its own. Trust me, I wouldn't have made it thru otherwise. I'm having baby #2 in 5 weeks and I will do exactly the same thing. I'm sure other mothers will not agree with me but you have to figure out what works for YOU and for your baby. I recommend you read Baby Wise - take it with a grain of salt - in other words, use good common sense. You know your babies cries. But a baby learns patterns very quickly - so you won't have to use the CIO theory for longer than a week. Or you can continue your sleepless nights to coddle a baby that in the end, you're not doing any favors for. A child who is loved and gets REST is a well adjusted baby. Plus, just like your own body, you need to trust that God built it well. Your body, just like your baby's, will sleep when it has to. You're not harming your baby by letting her/him cry. Teach it proper sleep patterns now, while it's so young and you will be thankful you did. I know that's blunt -- but it works. Good luck. Know that every child is different and there is not a set pattern for any parent to follow. You eventually need to do what is best and works for YOU and your family. Keep that in mind -- I also recommend Baby Whisperer.

[Amy_G_]

I won't jump on you for advising CIO here on the general board.
But CIO sucks and so does Ezzo.

Babies spend 9 months being constantly held, touched, rocked and fed. To expect a baby to go from this, to being ok with NOT being constantly held, touched, rocked and fed is absurd. babies are born with the instinct to complain, because over the eons, a baby left alone was in danger.

Babies have no concept of object permanence, and no concept of time. So when you leave them alone, they think they are completely alone, and have no idea of how long they've been that way or how long it will continue. Think of how you'd feel, it would be terrifying to think yourself all alone forever.

Crutches? It's actually rare to find an adult that doesn't have a routine or crutch before bed. a certain pillow, brush your teeth and put on pjs, go to the bathroom, a dark, quiet room, or going to sleep with the tv or radio on. very few adults can just go to sleep anywhere and at any time without certain prep.

Ezzo sucks. sorry, I may have to say that again. The only thing good I got out of Ezzo was to write down what your baby is doing, keep a log and then encourage what you like, and discourage what you don't like. But most of the rest is absolute bunk with no psychological, philosophical, religious or medical backing for it.

You have a 16 month old that sleeps well and always has. And you credit sleep training and Ezzo. I have a 12 year old that sleeps well and always has. He'd always take long naps, sleep at night and sleep in til 9am. He was such an easy baby. I certainly don't credit Ezzo.

His little brother was the polar opposite. He was a high needs. I didn't use sleep training methods with him, I used common sense and compassion. He's still a high needs child, he needs a LOT of touch to be happy. He is miserable if he doesn't get hugs and kisses and comfort. He also goes to sleep when he's tired, in his own bed, and at his own scheduling. but he had to grow into that.

Ezzo says the worst that can happen is a headache? Perhaps you should read up on some of the attachment issues surrounding Ezzo's practices, failure to thrive for babies, as well as psychological issues that arise from the abandonment, high blood pressure and such.

I don't teach it anything.
I teach my child a lot.

I believe in parenting my child, even when it's inconvenient to me. As a parent, I honestly believe that if your child needs you, you need to be there. And if your child is crying, you need to find the reason why.

[Shaunsmom]

ITA with everything Amy said.

Yes, not jumping all over OP because we are on the general board. Again, this is just my opinion- there is no reason that a baby needs to CIO. Absolutely none!

[Amy_G_]

Now for the OP.

evening crankiness is common. we used to always just call it COLIC.
and it sucks.
However we've determined that a lot of Colic is actually Reflux and baby may be in pain, which would definitely cause non-stop crying. Rule out colic before going with ANY other answers, especially anything regarding sleep training.

Evenings are tough times. Mom is trying to get dinner done, dad comes home, there is a lot of hustle and bustle I believe most babies when newborns can block out a lot of noise and stimuli. It's how they seem to get thru the difference in noise level from the muffled sounds while in utero, to the full volume outside the womb.

But as baby gets to be a month or two old, they lose that ability to just tune it all out. They do ok all day, but as the day wanes, and the evening activity level spikes up, baby's patience for it all really goes down.

I've found taking things from a couple of different directions really helps. the biggest is limiting the hustle and bustle. Do as much of the evening things as you can earlier in the day. Get dinner done earlier in the day with crockpot or whatever works easiest, so you only have to eat in the evening with limited prep. Limit noise by not turning on the tv, and having quiet conversations. think dim the lights and have simpler meals and a glass of wine. ;)

Dad is usually very happy to see baby, cause usually they've been away all day. they may want to play or sing or rock or take baby for a walk or whatever. Try to pick soothing, simple things. Put dad in charge of bathtime, or if baths make baby worse, have dad put baby in a front pack carrier or sling and go for a walk. you have to find waht sets your baby off though, cause for some, they don't want all that movement. It's like their bodies are sore from being held all day and they just want to lay down.

It is true that if baby is fed, changed, burped, swaddled, it may be the answer to let them just lay there and fuss. some will get more wound up if you hold and rock them or sing. And it's ok to put them down and let em fuss while you go to the bathroom, get a drink, snack and collect yourself for round two.

with my youngest, he didn't want to be alone, but he didn't want to be held, and he couldn't stand the noise and movement and such. With an older brother, it was often difficult to keep things mellow, but we tried. He was my laying down nurser, and he would conk out in a dark room while nursing. He wanted me near but not always touching him even. He didn't want me to sind lullabyes either. He'd panic if I left the room, even if he couldn't see me. Some babies need to HEAR you breathing to remind them to breath, which is one of the good things about co-sleeping, even if you only co-sleep in the same room, not the same bed. He grew out of the worst of this about 6-8 months old, when his system matured enough to handle more stimuli.

[colleen0419]

Amen Amy G! At the risk of having this put on the debate board, I totally agree with you. I, too, read baby wise, and didn't get much out of it. Piaget's first stage of development in an infant is trust vs. mistrust. If an infant cries and his needs are met, he learns to trust. I'm not saying that I jumped up everytime DD cried as an infant, but I certainly did not "pat her and assure her everything is okay" The only way I could assure her of that was to physically reach out for her. I also believe to co-sleep or "put you child in a crib from day one" are personal choices, and certainly neither are wrong. You have to do what's best for you. I personally had my DD in a bassinet next to my bed for the first 9-10 weeks and then in her crib. She is a wonderful sleeper and slept through the night from 9 weeks on. I think it really depends on your child's temperment.

[hotlama]

Whenever I have been tempted to let DD CIO I think about how I would feel in the same situation.

How would you feel if you couldn't communicate or move without help and your caregiver put you in a dark room, alone without you understanding why or for how long they would be gone?

If I get too frustrated, I will put DD down and walk out of the room for a few minutes. I've never left her alone for more than 2-3 minutes though. Usually it's just long enough for me to catch my breath or ask DH to relieve me for a while.

[Brianna]

Singing Mama, I'm so sorry your tired and worn out. I remember those days. They were so difficult. You don't have to let your dd cry it out. Comfort her. Rock her. Sing to her. Nurse her. And know, that even if it doesn't seem to make a difference now, it will make a difference later. She will grow into a fully attatched, secure little girl who trusts her parents. I hope this stage passes quickly for you and your family. My son seemed to grow out of the "colic" stage at around 4 months.

[jodyvo]

I am not going to jump on either train I am just here to wish you luck. Crying nonstop can be really tough. My friend's baby did the same thing and even had the same fussy time. Turns out she did have reflux. Onnce she went on the meds for it, it changed everything. It was a trial and error with finding the right med but what a difference.
I would talk to her Pedi. It really isn't normal for babies to cry much
GOOD LUCK MOMMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[singin_mama]

Thank you for all of the replies. I did get some sleep last night, but it was sitting up on the loveseat so now my back hurts. That is where I start out sleeping nearly every night. Then when Sara wakes up to nurse we go back to our bed, we do cosleep.

I have never read Ezzo's book, I started to this last pregnancy and as much as I read of it was okay, I don't agree with his thoughts on breastfeeding though. But I only read the first two chapters I think...

I haven't had a baby this fussy since dd1. And I did let her cry it out. I was young and I had no idea what to do. and I was a bit more selfish then too.

I did have one baby (dd2) that would fuss herself to sleep and I had to let her 'CIO'. She never cried long but if I didn't just lay her down she would scream her head off until I did put her down and let her fuss for a few minutes.

Sara is not a comfort nurser, different from the other babies that way. If I try to comfort her with nursing when she isn't hungry...Oh Boy does she get mad! lol

She hasn't liked being swaddled after the first couple of weeks.

She doesn't care for the swing. The swing worked great for dd1, she slept in that thing so much of the time because it was the one thing I could count on the keep her quiet.

I really don't think she has reflux. As I posted earlier she doesn't have many of the symptoms of it. I do plan on asking the ped about it when I take her this week for her checkup.

[Amy_G_]

Re-read the reflux info from kellymom on what to do if you suspect reflux. They may help regardless of what the dr says,suggests, prescribes. You sleeping sitting up made me think that baby is sleeping upright and made me think of positioning while nursing to help GERD (Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease)

Breastfeeding Tips

Aim for frequent breastfeeding, whenever baby cues to feed. These smaller, more frequent feedings can be easier to digest.
Try positioning baby in a semi-upright or sitting position when breastfeeding, or recline back so that baby is above and tummy-to-tummy with mom.
For fussy, reluctant feeders, try lots of skin to skin contact, breastfeeding in motion (rocking, walking), in the bath or when baby is sleepy.
Ensure good latch to minimize air swallowing.
Allow baby to completely finish one breast (by waiting until baby pulls off or goes to sleep) before you offer the other. Don't interrupt active suckling just to switch sides. Switching sides too soon or too often can cause excessive spitting up. For babies who want to breastfeed very frequently, try switching sides every few hours instead of at every feed.
Encourage non-nutritive/comfort sucking at the breast, since non-nutritive sucking reduces irritation and speeds gastric emptying.
Avoid rough or fast movement or unnecessary jostling or handling of your baby right after feeding. Baby may be more comfortable when held upright much of the time. It is often helpful to burp more frequently.
As always, watch your baby and follow his cues to determine what works best to ease the reflux symptoms.


What can I do to minimize spitting up/reflux?

Breastfeed! Reflux is less common in breastfed babies. In addition, breastfed babies with reflux have been shown to have shorter and fewer reflux episodes and less severe reflux at night than formula-fed babies [Heacock 1992]. Breastfeeding is also best for babies with reflux because breastmilk leaves the stomach much faster [Ewer 1994] (so there’s less time for it to back up into the esophagus) and is probably less irritating when it does come back up.
The more relaxed your infant is, the less the reflux.
Eliminate all environmental tobacco smoke exposure, as this is a significant contributing factor to reflux.
Reduce or eliminate caffeine. Excessive caffeine in mom's diet can contribute to reflux.
Allergy should be suspected in all infant reflux cases. According to a review article in Pediatrics [Salvatore 2002], up to half of all GERD cases in babies under a year are associated with cow’s milk protein allergy. The authors note that symptoms can be similar and recommend that pediatricians screen all babies with GERD for cow’s milk allergy. Allergic babies generally have other symptoms in addition to spitting up.
Positioning:
Reflux is worst when baby lies flat on his back.
Many parents have found that carrying baby in a sling or other baby carrier can be helpful.
Avoid compressing baby’s abdomen - this can increase reflux and discomfort. Dress baby in loose clothing with loose diaper waistbands; avoid “slumped over” or bent positions; for example, roll baby on his side rather than lifting legs toward tummy for diaper changes.
Recent research has compared various positions to determine which is best for babies with reflux. Elevating baby's head did not make a significant difference in these studies [Carroll 2002, Secker 2002, Craig 2004], although many moms have found that baby is more comfortable when in an upright position. The positions shown to significantly reduce reflux include lying on the left side and prone (baby on his tummy). Placing the infant in a prone position should only be done when the child is awake and can be continuously monitored. Prone positioning during sleep is almost never recommended due to the increased SIDS risk. [Secker 2002]
Although recent research does not support recommendations to keep baby in a semi-upright position (30° elevation), this remains a common recommendation. Positioning at a 60° elevation in an infant seat or swing has been found to increase reflux compared with the prone (tummy down) position [Carroll 2002, Secker 2002].
As always, experiment to find what works best for your baby.
If your child is taking reflux medications, keep in mind that dosages generally need to be monitored and adjusted frequently as baby grows.

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/reflux.html

[singin_mama]

Thanks Amy.

The only symptom that she seems to have is the discomfort lying on her back. And even that hasn't bothered her since I had her to the chiro.

I do a lot of the recommendations already. We don't smoke, I don't have caffeine and I eliminated dairy for a bit to see if it helped, it didn't. She always sleeps on her tummy unless she is in bed with me and then she sleeps on her side after she falls asleep nursing. She will not sleep on her back or side in her bed. I know that tummy sleeping is not recommended but it is the only way she'll sleep.

I have a good ped I hope she'll have some insight when we see her.

[winnie]

I sooooo feel your pain. Sarah went through a colic spurt from birth to 12 weeks. After 12 weeks she was much easier. Disney Naturals makes a Colic Soother and that really helped as well.

Will she wear a hat? Sarah loves having a snug cap on, and she also like a receiving blanket by her face. No matter how much I try she will grab any blanket and hold it with her hand while she sucks her thumb.

[singin_mama]

Sara doesn't like hats, she'll put up with it but she doesn't like it.

[Peanut1207]

Okay everyone will probably disagree with me too...but whatever. I'm done caring what other people think of my choices and parenting skills. How old is the baby? My personal feeling is that there is a huge difference between waking frequently in the first year and waking frequently after that. yes, babies do cry because they need comfort, attention, etc. But I also really think that they learn that you'll come even if they aren't hungry (creatures of habit). I know my baby does this and I can't let him CIO but I'm a new SAHM and I don't have to get up for work or have other children to take care of, if I did it might be very different. Can you go and comfort and not nurse? Just rock or soothe, sort of smoothly letting baby know that there isn't really a point to waking because he/she isn't going to nurse? This doesn't work for me, baby cries with DH until he's put on the boob and after about 20 seconds he's fine and I could put him back down. I don't really know what to tell you but you need to do what you are okay with. If you are okay letting baby CIO then maybe thats the choice you need to make right now. If you aren't okay with it then maybe some of my (or others) suggestions will help. Good luck :)

[tifttu]

Nothing soothed DS except being attached to me so no help there. DD was very particular. She had a couple of hours of rough time in the evenings (not as long as yours) and the only thing that helped was swaddling here (sometimes she didn't need that part), laying her face down across my knees so that one knee was under her tummy, bouncing the leg under her tummy, patting her back, and rocking in the glider all at the same time.

[jgassa]

Self soothers = happy babies and happy mommies and daddies.

I am all for CIO after the child reaches a certain age (usually around 6 months).

[sweetkisses]

I cannot believe anyone would actually follow any advice by Ezzo. IIRC he has been excommunicated from his church because of his teachings and is estranged from at least one of his children.

[whitnessforhim]

Self soothers = happy babies and happy mommies and daddies.

I am all for CIO after the child reaches a certain age (usually around 6 months).


I'm sorry but I just cringe and shudder whenever you post something like this. I just don't see how CIO, alone in a cold, dark room equals self soothing.

[Amy_G_]

Okay everyone will probably disagree with me too...but whatever. I'm done caring what other people think of my choices and parenting skills. How old is the baby? My personal feeling is that there is a huge difference between waking frequently in the first year and waking frequently after that. yes, babies do cry because they need comfort, attention, etc. But I also really think that they learn that you'll come even if they aren't hungry (creatures of habit). I know my baby does this and I can't let him CIO but I'm a new SAHM and I don't have to get up for work or have other children to take care of, if I did it might be very different. Can you go and comfort and not nurse? Just rock or soothe, sort of smoothly letting baby know that there isn't really a point to waking because he/she isn't going to nurse? This doesn't work for me, baby cries with DH until he's put on the boob and after about 20 seconds he's fine and I could put him back down. I don't really know what to tell you but you need to do what you are okay with. If you are okay letting baby CIO then maybe thats the choice you need to make right now. If you aren't okay with it then maybe some of my (or others) suggestions will help. Good luck :)

The original poster's baby is 2 months old for christ sakes!
:(

[Amy_G_]

Dr. Michael Commons, PhD
Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical Center

"When infants are crying and not being attended to, their brains release stress hormones. There’s increasing evidence that this changes the whole physiology of how they’ll deal with stress for the rest of their lives.

Stress on developing brain
These are very young children with rapidly developing brains, and when the hormone cortisol is secreted under stress, it can damage the amygdala (the part of the brain that controls emotion). There’s also some evidence that it can damage the hippocampus, which deals with memory. And the longer babies cry, the more of this hormone gets secreted. There are a number of studies where they’ve stressed animals and then looked at their brains -- I don’t think this is very controversial.

Long-term damage
We know from retrospective studies that the worst possible condition a baby can be subject to is abandonment for periods of time. With a little extrapolation, you can see that in some cases, when babies are not getting attention and have to scream and yell to get it, it can do damage. It’s probably good for every baby to avoid this – we’re talking about long-term effects here. Impaired attachment creates some of the most severe mental illnesses -- borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder -- and is also seen in psychopaths. The studies are pretty clear on the long-term effects of disordered and ambivalent attachment.

Too tough for babies
There’s something pathologically wrong with people who want to be tough on babies. There’s this whole sort of notion that the tougher you are with children, the better they’ll be as adults. But actually, there’s research that supports the idea that giving children safety and contact early on leads to more secure children.

No evidence
There are all sorts of myths about things that are good for babies, but there’s just no evidence that these harsh child rearing practices are good for kids."

Dr. Michael Lamport Collins, Ph.D. is an assistant clinical professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Patrice Marie Miller, Ed.D. is a clinical instructor in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and a professor in the Department of Psychology at Salem State College.

[Amy_G_]

FYI: CIO with a 2 month old is totally different than ATTENDED crying with a 12 or 18 month old.

[singin_mama]

I cannot believe anyone would actually follow any advice by Ezzo. IIRC he has been excommunicated from his church because of his teachings and is estranged from at least one of his children.

Everyone says something good once in awhile. ;)

I did agree with what he said in the first chapter that parents sometimes neglect their relationship with each other after they have children. It is important to make sure you are still connecting with dh/so. For the rest of what Ezzo teaches I am not in a position to defend or reject since I've not read the whole book.

As a good friend once told me, "Take the peanuts and throw out the shells".

Thanks for posting the CIO stuff Amy. I do believe that it is damaging. DD1 is the only one of my kids with security issues and I did CIO with her. I think the relationship I have fostered with her in later years has helped to undo some of that but I do wish I had done things differently with her.

[pumpkinhead7]

I agree with AmyG.

SM, Kieran had pretty bad reflux and he almost never spat up. His was called silent reflux. When your baby nurses, what is she like right afterward? Is she content and satiated or is she fussy and squirmy? Does she make chewing motions with her gums? Does she like to be on her tummy? Does she ever sounds stuffy? Does she sneeze a lot? Does she tolerate being on her back?

If it were me and I was in doubt, I would try a trial of a reflux med to see if it helped.

I would absolutely never ever do CIO with a child under 10 months. Even then, it would have to be a pretty desparate situation.

[pumpkinhead7]

Yeah, CIO works for some babies, but at what cost? You're teaching them to give up. Comfort won't come no matter how hard you cry. That's not a lesson I want my infant learning. When a baby under 6 months old cries, she NEEDS something. Maybe that's just your arms, but she still needs them.

[PeacefulMom]

We called my DS's bouncy chair his pacifier for about 6 months until he broke it. It was the only thing that soothed him. We'd even take it over to people's houses to hang out! He liked us looking at him and talking to him while bouncing but he wasn't in to being held too much. Made me sad actually! But then when it broke we worked him into being able to be rocked and nursed to sleep and I suddenly missed the old bouncy seat days! ;) But I do so love that my almost 2 yo still loves to cuddle mommy and I still get to rock him to sleep. he won't need that forever and they grow up so fast as it is why rush?

We never did a CIO think but he often wanted to be put down. Just when he was little like that, once teething started he was more into comfort nursing and such. I had a hard time putting him down thinking I'd be doing damage but I'd always look at him, read to him, sing to him or whatever and he was happy with that.

You just have to keep trying things really. A walk outside? A bath? And try and remember this too shall pass.

[singin_mama]

I agree with AmyG.

SM, Kieran had pretty bad reflux and he almost never spat up. His was called silent reflux. When your baby nurses, what is she like right afterward? Is she content and satiated or is she fussy and squirmy? Does she make chewing motions with her gums? Does she like to be on her tummy? Does she ever sounds stuffy? Does she sneeze a lot? Does she tolerate being on her back?

If it were me and I was in doubt, I would try a trial of a reflux med to see if it helped.

I would absolutely never ever do CIO with a child under 10 months. Even then, it would have to be a pretty desparate situation.

I read about the silent reflux.

After nursing she is satisfied and content...except at night. No chewing motions that I've noticed. She does like being on her tummy, but does tolerate being laid on her back since I had her to the chiropractor.

[pumpkinhead7]

I read about the silent reflux.

After nursing she is satisfied and content...except at night. No chewing motions that I've noticed. She does like being on her tummy, but does tolerate being laid on her back since I had her to the chiropractor.

For whatever reason, reflux is always worse at night. I had it while pregnant and it was always worse at night. If it is reflux, it's possible that it's mild and only bothers her at night. Believe it or not, pacifers actually help with reflux. The constant swallowing helps keep the acid in their stomaches. It's very possible that this is a size issue. If the chiropractic care has helped her, perhaps it's just that her esophagus needs to lengthen. Keeping her as upright as possible after a feed at night might help.

Stay away from gripe water. If she does have any sort of reflux, it will make it worse. The stuff without sodium bicarbonate is ok though.

I hope this passes quickly for you!

[jgassa]

I'm sorry but I just cringe and shudder whenever you post something like this. I just don't see how CIO, alone in a cold, dark room equals self soothing.

Well- I am sorry you feel this way...but mostly it is your perception. My son is not alone in a dark cold room. The room is light and comfortable during the day. At night, he sleeps in his crib right up against my side of the bed. Hardly what I call alone. He does not "cry" but more like sings, talks, and whines before he falls asleep on his own.

I think that it is important for people to do what works well for them. There is a lot of negativity on this board toward parents that may need to go the CIO method for a few days. My son reached a point where he no longer was sleeping during the day because he was so used to me puting him to sleep that if he stirred during the course of a nap or during the night, He would need me to soothe him back to sleep. At six months my happy exploring baby became very grumpy and fussy and he wouldn't nap once I laid him in his crib and he stirred. I have 5 children and a husband and everyone needs/wants a piece of me. I came to the decision that he needed to learn to nap on his own. As soon as he did he started to sleep 2-4 hrs (two seperate naps) a day. He also started to be his active happy self again and started crawling.
Almost everyday on this board there is a couple of posts with moms that are tired and stretched because all of a sudden their little ones are not sleeping or mom can no longer sooth them the way that they did before. If you keep doing what your doing, you're going to keep getting what you're getting. I am not saying to be hard or uncaring. I am a very attentive mommy. I breastfeed on demand, I wear my son in a sling. The only time he is strapped in a car seat is when we are in the car! Solid food has not yet touched his lips. I hardly ever leave him in the care of another (except his father).But there are some areas where (for everyones sake) I need to set the boundries. I am parenting (in the true sense of the work) my son from a young age. So stone me.

[singin_mama]

For whatever reason, reflux is always worse at night. I had it while pregnant and it was always worse at night. If it is reflux, it's possible that it's mild and only bothers her at night. Believe it or not, pacifers actually help with reflux. The constant swallowing helps keep the acid in their stomaches. It's very possible that this is a size issue. If the chiropractic care has helped her, perhaps it's just that her esophagus needs to lengthen. Keeping her as upright as possible after a feed at night might help.

Stay away from gripe water. If she does have any sort of reflux, it will make it worse. The stuff without sodium bicarbonate is ok though.

I hope this passes quickly for you!

Thanks Pumky for your replies and suggestions. I appreciate it.

That does make sense. The indigestion I had always seemed worse at night too.

Sara does use a paci.

The gripe water I used just had ginger, chamomile, and fennel in it.

A friend gave me Colic Calm, that didn't help either.

I would like to treat it naturally but I have already tried all of the natural remedies so I think we will have to try meds. We see the ped on Thurs.

I feel so bad for my poor baby. She is obviously miserable.

[singin_mama]

Well- I am sorry you feel this way...but mostly it is your perception. My son is not alone in a dark cold room. The room is light and comfortable during the day. At night, he sleeps in his crib right up against my side of the bed. Hardly what I call alone. He does not "cry" but more like sings, talks, and whines before he falls asleep on his own.

I think that it is important for people to do what works well for them. There is a lot of negativity on this board toward parents that may need to go the CIO method for a few days. My son reached a point where he no longer was sleeping during the day because he was so used to me puting him to sleep that if he stirred during the course of a nap or during the night, He would need me to soothe him back to sleep. At six months my happy exploring baby became very grumpy and fussy and he wouldn't nap once I laid him in his crib and he stirred. I have 5 children and a husband and everyone needs/wants a piece of me. I came to the decision that he needed to learn to nap on his own. As soon as he did he started to sleep 2-4 hrs (two seperate naps) a day. He also started to be his active happy self again and started crawling.
Almost everyday on this board there is a couple of posts with moms that are tired and stretched because all of a sudden their little ones are not sleeping or mom can no longer sooth them the way that they did before. If you keep doing what your doing, you're going to keep getting what you're getting. I am not saying to be hard or uncaring. I am a very attentive mommy. I breastfeed on demand, I wear my son in a sling. The only time he is strapped in a car seat is when we are in the car! Solid food has not yet touched his lips. I hardly ever leave him in the care of another (except his father).But there are some areas where (for everyones sake) I need to set the boundries. I am parenting (in the true sense of the work) my son from a young age. So stone me.


What you talk about here is not what I would consider CIO. To me CIO is when you leave a baby to cry, or scream, for longer that 5-10 minutes and don't offer any consolation.

Please don't get defensive or angry, this is the support board after all.

[Amy_G_]

In a stagnant world, this is true
"If you keep doing what your doing, you're going to keep getting what you're getting."
But as a baby matures, you give the same thing and you get back a totally different response one day.

One day you hide behind the blanket to play peek a boo and the baby knows you are behind the blanket and reaches out for you because they've never realized you were actually still there before.

Listening to your baby's cues is very important, and that means listening to why your baby is crying and helping them to grow to understand their world, so they don't need to cry anymore. Ignoring cries for a "few nights" or a "few hours" means you've hardened your heart just a little. Studies show that parents that use CIO start to reply SLOWER to their child's needs over time. Because they think "a little crying never hurt anyone." But when I'm alone and scared and crying out for help--which is what CIO is, a little crying makes me sadder, and makes me feel more and more alone.

If you tried CIO and your baby fussed for one or two minutes and conked out--that isn't CIO.
If you were at your whits ends and ready to strangle your baby, put em in the crib and baby cried til you got yourself under control, that isn't CIO either.

Closing the door and walking away from a crying baby to teach them to take care of themselves(whichn is what self soothing is), and not returning for some set amount of time, or before baby conks out---that is CIO.

Lots of people go into parenting unprepared. They don't realize that babies are not little adults. Babies can't be reasoned with. What makes sense in YOUR BRAIN, doesn't make any sense at all in their brain. The security that you think they rely on, they don't even understand what it is. They know they are alone, cold, wet or hungry.

It takes years for their brains to develop to the point that they understand things even part way close to how an adult understands things. Simple things like object permanence, or how things fall (exhibited by experiments throwing food off the high chair over and over again), or that a tall thin glass could hold as much water as a fat short glas (which is why pouring water from one cup to another is so fascinating), or that a solid can feel mushy and soft and disappear in your fingers (ice cubes and mashed potato experiments).

It's like the people who think the dog understand why they are leaving each day, or to understand they'll return, just because they tell the dog they are going to work, and they do it at the same time each day and they always return. But the dog just knows it's alone all day and barks it's head off while you are gone from separation anxiety, and wags it's tail like it's never seen you before and acts like you are the greatest thing since sliced bread when you return.

Babies start out at about that level of understanding. They grow into understanding more, but not until their brain actually grows and develops, and that takes a lot more months and years than many seem to believe.

It's hard work to be a parent. I try to take as few shortcuts as I can, and do it as well as I can. and sometimes that means I'm tired and cranky and I need more help than I like to admit. It does also mean that I will make different choices than you, but I'm striving hard to make the best overall choices based on the long term.

[whitnessforhim]

I agree that what you just described is not what I would call CIO either. I don't think that was clear from your other posts.

You are right SM we are not here to make people defensive. This is a supportive board and I apologize if I made you feel defensive.

[singin_mama]

Very well stated Amy!

[canukmom]

The best thing I've read on sleep training was a little bit of a tongue in cheek article that ran through the usual methods but then concluded that at the end of the day, you need to do whatever you need to to get through the day! If letting your LO sleep in the swing once in a while gets you some sleep and means you are a better mom afterwards, then it's not the worst thing in the world. Also, I think that we're not always clear about what CIO means to each of us, and it's pretty clear it's not always the same... we'll let DD cry when she wakes at night if it's her 'drama queen' cry... .usually she'll go back to sleep on her own within 5 or 10 minutes... if on the other hand she wakes up and is obviously upset, we'll go to her right away, before it escalates... I believe I know my child, and my family, and what's best for us, and I can totally respect that other people's children and familes have different needs. Just the fact that we are here, looking for info and support, is a clear indication to me that we're all doing what we can for our children and our families.