spankings???

[MissionaryMomma]

I'll also add, that as my Brothers aged, they grew angrier and angrier inside. When they were big enough (in mind, anyway), each one tried to stand toe to toe with Dad. He would put his nose to their nose and say, through his teeth, "I'll knock you down, boy!"

Today, my older brother has hopped from one lover to another. He refuses to have children because he doesn't want to be like his father. He has been in and out of jail (and living on the street when he turned 18, just to get away from home).

My little brother hates the church and everything it stands for (our Dad was a Pastor). He doesn't feel comfortable even talking to me because I'm "religious". In his biterness toward Dad, he, unfortunately, has turned out much like him. He's an angry individual.

Neither child turned out the way Dad intended.

Where is Dad now? I'm not entirely sure. He left several years ago and has not contacted me. Everyone assumes it's because he ran out on Mom and is ashamed because I'm "religious". How ironic...

[MissionaryMomma]

Serial posting.....

I'm far from a perfect parent. I'm not nearly affectionate enough and I'm too easily frustrated. Please don't feel like I'm judging. I'm not. I'm just trying to share an opposing viewpoint for your consideration.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I'm sorry about your father, MissionaryMomma. A lot of what you said resounded with me. My brother, too, refuses to have children because he doesn't want to be like our father. He has severe attachment issues and cannot maintain a healthy relationship. The 'nice' girls that he has been with he's cheated on (and he doesn't even know why he does this, he just self-destructs). His last serious girlfriend was very physically abusive to him to the point that it took a restraining order and my threatening her to keep her away from him.

He's got a lot of issues.

I moved out at 16 to get away from my home life. I did everything from stripping (which I'm not ashamed of), selling drugs, to working multiple jobs at one time to support myself while in high school rather than live with my parents.

Neither one of us has any contact with my dad now. He's not seen Holden since he was three months old (he'll be five in a couple of weeks) and doesn't even know that Sergei exists (or that he was going to exist). I have this macabre joke with dh that, whenever I buy a newspaper, I have a hunch that I need to read the obituaries. That's the only way I would know if my dad died.

[The_Market]

Sure, they don't like spankings, but that's kind of the point.
I disagree. My goal as a parent is not behavior modification. I'm not training puppies, I'm raising people. My goal as a parent is to raise adults who are able to understand what is right and wrong, use logic and reasoning to apply that to varied situations, and make choices that are healthy for themselves as well as good for society.

I believe that if what motivates my children to do what is right is fear of punishment, then they will not be motivated to do right when there is no risk of punishment. I believe in doing right because it is right, not because I am in fear of suffering if I do otherwise.

Sometimes I wonder if the way we think of molding people has anything to do with westernized culture's Judea-Christian roots. I mean, there's not a fear of hell in the Jewish belief system, but it sure was foundational in the founding of modern Christianity. So many people seem to follow what they beleive their Bible and Lord have said is right out of a fear of hell. It was a far more predominant theme in years past, as well. I wonder if it trickles down from there?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

And I'm not perfect either. In fact, that's probably why I'm so convinced that spanking is never justified. If I, with my spirited kids and all of my faults, can figure out a way to discipline using non-violence then I'm certain that it can be done by anybody.

[The_Market]

Oops. I had this thread open for a day in a forgotten tab. I didn't refresh before posting. I see I have some catching up to do. Unless there's a summary around here?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Sometimes I wonder if the way we think of molding people has anything to do with westernized culture's Judea-Christian roots.

I agree with this. I also think that much of our society's focus on punishment instead of cooperation (for lack of a better term) is based on religion. Many Christians will say of atheists that they (atheists) cannot be moral. How can one be moral without being told what morals to have, they reason. Without fear of G-d what is the motivation of behaving 'righteously'?

It is a foreign concept to many that one would be able to self-control their behavior without fear of punishment, just as it's a foreign concept that children don't need to be punished if discipline is practiced properly.

This is probably not only an issue with Christians, but it is something that I've noticed antecdotally.

[MissionaryMomma]

I left at 16, too, Sasha, except I got married instead. LOL!

[frannie]

they grew angrier and angrier inside. When they were big enough (in mind, anyway), each one tried to stand toe to toe with Dad.


I know this happends specialy with boys, which is why spanking wasnt the first disapline/punishment tactic i used (yes I know some feel they are not the same) This is why I need other ideas to help me out.

The only form my parents used was spanknig, I dont have experiance with anything else and nor do others I know IRL. The people I know were also not serverly punished to the point of beatings, so maybe thats why we all see it as no big deal (not said to start an up roar)

From this discusion I do see that I lack in the "let me show you how to do it" verbage. I guess I just feel that I have showed them before and they should get it. I do get easily frustraited, and could use more paitence.

I also see that if I gave them "the benifit of the doubt" I might not get so offended and feel disrespected, I want to work on that.

I also do not mointor after i ask for something to be done (please dont call me a lazy parent, im not posting here to get insulted) I dont feel that I should have to stand there to make sure they do what they are told. but I see now that they might be still be to young for that responsibility, and can get distracted if not gently reminded of the task at hand.

I am always open to constructive criticism, and willing to try a "better" way.
I DONT WANT TO HURT MY KIDS and thats NOT why I had them.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Frannie, I respect that you are open to learning other discipline techniques.

My dh was spanked--not beaten--and initially he had the same kind of attitude. He and his brothers were all spanked, they all turned out 'fine', what was the harm in a little pop on the butt every now and then?

I bought him this great book called The Natural Child: Parenting from the Heart by Jan Hunt. She has a website also--just google "The Natural Child Project". There are articles and exerpts from her book there. Anyway, it really helped him to realize that the act of hitting itself is disrespectful--if it's designed to hurt that's just all that much worse. But if we want to raise successful adults we need to treat them first the way that we want to be treated--if they are treated with respect then they will return respect.

It's a life-changing book. I can't recommend it highly enough.

[frannie]

I disagree. My goal as a parent is not behavior modification. I'm not training puppies, I'm raising people. My goal as a parent is to raise adults who are able to understand what is right and wrong, use logic and reasoning to apply that to varied situations, and make choices that are healthy for themselves as well as good for society.

I believe that if what motivates my children to do what is right is fear of punishment, then they will not be motivated to do right when there is no risk of punishment. I believe in doing right because it is right, not because I am in fear of suffering if I do otherwise.

Sometimes I wonder if the way we think of molding people has anything to do with westernized culture's Judea-Christian roots. I mean, there's not a fear of hell in the Jewish belief system, but it sure was foundational in the founding of modern Christianity. So many people seem to follow what they beleive their Bible and Lord have said is right out of a fear of hell. It was a far more predominant theme in years past, as well. I wonder if it trickles down from there?


That was (and still is) my parenting goal.
When I was pregnant with my son I knew that I was going to responsible for raising a man, husband, father and I wanted him to be the best he could be. I

I dont like that i have resorted to fear as a motivator.

I have some how, somewhere feel lost my way and am trying to get back to that.

[Bohemian]

I have known many Christians/Catholics that are religous because they fear. Fear of hell, fear of punishment, fear of God.

Ironically one of the reasons among many that I choose not to spank my children is what I've learned about grace. If God can be so loving and graceful with me who has many faults, how can I not be the same way with my children who are learning? I understand so much better about the unconditional love God can have for me since I've had children of my own. :)

[The_Market]

This is probably not only an issue with Christians, but it is something that I've noticed antecdotally.

Oh, I think it's gone beyond religion at this point. I have never believed in hell, having been raised Reform Jewish, but I definitely believed in behavior modification. Punishment and rewards, baby!

It's become cultural, for sure. I wish I knew enough about parenting in cultures where the whole hell, heaven, redemption theme did not exist, to go somewhere with this thought process.

Then again, kids push parents' buttons in all cultures, I speculate. lol

[The_Market]

That was (and still is) my parenting goal.
When I was pregnant with my son I knew that I was going to responsible for raising a man, husband, father and I wanted him to be the best he could be. I

I dont like that i have resorted to fear as a motivator.

I have some how, somewhere feel lost my way and am trying to get back to that.
Hey, Frannie, if I had a book shipped to you, do you think you'd read it?

[frannie]

Hey, Frannie, if I had a book shipped to you, do you think you'd read it?


I pm'd you

[KarenBeth3177]

My brother refuses to have kids and has no interest in having a girlfriend or being married. He says very little to anyone unless your talking about something that really interests him. I have had problems with connecting with adults and making any kind of a relationship. My sisters have problems in their marriages, but they don't think anythings wrong. I try to ignore it but I still have alot of anger built up towards my parents. My dad beat my 7 year old with a belt last year. His words to him was well if your parents won't beat you I will. I will not be taking any of my kids around them ever again!

I have a problem I have been dealing with for the past 15 months but frankly I am afraid to post it up here because all I will get is flamed in return.

I am having a hard time getting Alana to sleep at night, spanking her makes her go to sleep but I really don't want to resort to spanking because I know how it feels to be at the other end but I have tried everything to help her go to bed. I try to do the same routine, I read to her, I have even tried laying in bed with her. I go to sleep and she stays awake.

[KarenBeth3177]

My boyfriend has told me his parents spanked, he was one of 7. He told me as the boys got older some would mouth back to his dad and there was a couple of times his dad would knock one of them down and beg them not to get back up or he would do it again. He said the one brother got back up and his dad had to knock him down again to get the message through. He thinks his dad needed to do this, they were over 16 at the time. I told him no one better ever think about hitting my kids like that.

[frannie]

I hope no one bashes on you here, because I know you just want alternatives to spankings.

how old is your dd?
what reasons does she give as to why she doesnt want to go to bed. -not tired, afraid of the dark?

[Sunnie]

I hope no one bashes on you here, because I know you just want alternatives to spankings.



No she doesn't. She wants flames. We have a history with this poster.

I am having a hard time getting Alana to sleep at night, spanking her makes her go to sleep but I really don't want to resort to spanking because I know how it feels to be at the other end but I have tried everything to help her go to bed. I try to do the same routine, I read to her, I have even tried laying in bed with her. I go to sleep and she stays awake.

That's disgusting Karen. Poor kid. You know how she feels and you do it anyway?

[frannie]

:confused:No she doesn't. She wants flames. We have a history with this poster.



That's disgusting Karen. Poor kid. You know how she feels and you do it anyway?


:confused:

[haleysmom]

I dont like that i have resorted to fear as a motivator.

I have some how, somewhere feel lost my way and am trying to get back to that.


I hope you read the books/links that have been suggested. I hope you can find a technique that works for you, that you can be proud of, and that won't hurt your children. It sounds like you do want to change.

I hope you have the patience to get things turned around, but I'm SURE they will get a lot better.

[Wolverine]

I have a problem I have been dealing with for the past 15 months but frankly I am afraid to post it up here because all I will get is flamed in return.

I am having a hard time getting Alana to sleep at night, spanking her makes her go to sleep but I really don't want to resort to spanking because I know how it feels to be at the other end but I have tried everything to help her go to bed. I try to do the same routine, I read to her, I have even tried laying in bed with her. I go to sleep and she stays awake.


There are a million other options. My children both sleep and I have never hit them.

I'm sure you knew that if you posted this here, there would be some flaming.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Karen is trying to get everyone riled up. Don't give her the satisfaction.

[Sunnie]

Karen is trying to get everyone riled up. Don't give her the satisfaction.


oh, I don't know. We haven't had a proper Karen flaming in ages. I could use the distraction ;)

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

That's true. And there's never any shortage of flammable material.

[xobehs]

Yes but! It is too much like hunting on a ranch.

[vulturemom]

Yep, no sport to it at all.

[KarenBeth3177]

No she doesn't. She wants flames. We have a history with this poster.



That's disgusting Karen. Poor kid. You know how she feels and you do it anyway?


Skip over my posts, I have been dealing with so much lately that what you say to me doesn't mean shit. You might have bothered me before but I don't give a damn what you say now.

[Sunnie]

Skip over my posts, I have been dealing with so much lately that what you say to me doesn't mean shit. You might have bothered me before but I don't give a damn what you say now.


Whatever. That's why you took the time to reply to my post. :roflol

You might want to let Sasha, shebox and others know the same thing since they all said the same as I did. ;)

[KarenBeth3177]

Just because I said I am having troubles getting my 3 year old to sleep at night?? Whatever, this board is insane. No one gives out real advice hardly just in it to take people down. I don't even know why you had to say anything about my post I have never posted to you.

Karen is trying to get everyone riled up. Don't give her the satisfaction.

[Babyhellfire]

Just because I said I am having troubles getting my 3 year old to sleep at night?? Whatever, this board is insane. No one gives out real advice hardly just in it to take people down. I don't even know why you had to say anything about my post I have never posted to you.
If you don't know better by now, you are pretty dumb...
your track record would indicate you DO know better..
and if you actualy do feel that way you know the way out.

[KarenBeth3177]

yeah. yeah whatever I have been here longer then alot of people. No one was talking to you. Funny I have never posted to most of the people here but yet they all seem to know me. Everyone seems to forget its not just internet there is real people behind the computer but I really don't care what anyone thinks. I know who I am and what I do.

[Sunnie]

trouble getting your 3 yr old to sleep is one thing.

telling us you SPANK her to get her to go to sleep? you just want to be flamed. You saw someone else getting attention and that just pisses you off.

Get some help Karen. Seriously.

[Sunnie]

yeah. yeah whatever I have been here longer then alot of people. No one was talking to you.


Oh. We're going to play that game? Well, I've been here longer than you Karen.

[KarenBeth3177]

whatever

[KarenBeth3177]

I have plenty of Christian people tell me spare the rod spoil the child. I did not say I always do spank her or like doing it I just said it works from the two times I tried. Most nights she is in her room awake until 11- 12 am.

[Babyhellfire]

Cute. Its like elementary school in here. Be careful sunnie ,she will push you off the swing

[KarenBeth3177]

You seem to be the elementary one here, like I said I have never typed to you and don't care to anymore. I have read alot of posts up here and alot of people here just like to critize. This board is famous for wanting families to break up to....bravo to this board not!

[Sunnie]

I have plenty of Christian people tell me spare the rod spoil the child. I did not say I always do spank her or like doing it I just said it works from the two times I tried. Most nights she is in her room awake until 11- 12 am.


Oh, that is not what your first post said. You fucking liar.

[LabRat4430]

I have plenty of Christian people tell me spare the rod spoil the child. I did not say I always do spank her or like doing it I just said it works from the two times I tried. Most nights she is in her room awake until 11- 12 am.


the hebrew translation of that verse is much different then our english. I can't remember it word for word but the point is to teach your child self-discipline. HUGE difference

[Babyhellfire]

yes you have. Funny I remember and you don't ..Makes me sad for a second.
oh, but then I remember I am a lowly member of this horrible board which you loathe soo much yet always come back to, and I don't feel so bad.

[Sunnie]

Cute. Its like elementary school in here. Be careful sunnie ,she will push you off the swing


Oh, I'm shaking.

[Sunnie]

You seem to be the elementary one here, like I said I have never typed to you and don't care to anymore. I have read alot of posts up here and alot of people here just like to critize. This board is famous for wanting families to break up to....bravo to this board not!


The only person who broke up your family was your disgusting pedophile of an ex. The kind women of this board tried to help you, you selfish pig.

[KarenBeth3177]

Oh, that is not what your first post said. You fucking liar.


ok i am a liar whatever bitch. I had no reason to put it in my first post. i am tired from working all day and doing my school work, I don't have time for your stupid ass.

[KarenBeth3177]

The only person who broke up your family was your disgusting pedophile of an ex. The kind women of this board tried to help you, you selfish pig.

Say whatever you like but I am far from selfish. You just see what you want and like to start shit on this board. Funny your not so bold in real life now are you??? Oh thats right you claimed you were tyring to be my friend.. Haha whatever...

[Sunnie]

I was trying to be your friend. Until you kept taking his pedophile ass back and then started posting snatch shots on YIM.

[QuiltyConscience]

You seem to be the elementary one here, like I said I have never typed to you and don't care to anymore. I have read alot of posts up here and alot of people here just like to critize. This board is famous for wanting families to break up to....bravo to this board not!

This board did a lot to try to help you out when you were leaving your husband. Many, many really good women sent you money, And IIRC some even met you in person to try to help you when you set up your new household.

[Tweet]

Karen is trying to get everyone riled up. Don't give her the satisfaction.

I completely agree.

[Tweet]

This board did a lot to try to help you out when you were leaving your husband. Many, many really good women sent you money, And IIRC some even met you in person to try to help you when you set up your new household.

Yes, and she shits on them. Jeez, people even defended her right to post her snatch shots on YIM. But no, we're all a bunch of bitches. And yeah, Karen, I'll be proud of the fact that I wanted your kids away from your pedophile husband. I won't ever apologize for that. Iam sorry for ever giving YOU the benefit of the doubt, though. You make me sick.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I have plenty of Christian people tell me spare the rod spoil the child. I did not say I always do spank her or like doing it I just said it works from the two times I tried. Most nights she is in her room awake until 11- 12 am.
Yes, Christians who don't know how to interpret the scripture correctly.

Karen, you know better. You know how it feels to be on the other side. How in the fuck could you do this to your baby? Once you spank her and make her go to sleep, how do you sleep at night?

[BeanBabies]

Well Karen - I never tried to be your friend. I never tried to be your enemy. In fact - I tried to stay as far away from you as possible because frankly, you choose to be a loser.

And yes, I've been here longer than you.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

You seem to be the elementary one here, like I said I have never typed to you and don't care to anymore. I have read alot of posts up here and alot of people here just like to critize. This board is famous for wanting families to break up to....bravo to this board not!

Then why would you want our advice?

And pssstt...multiple baby daddies, pedophilia, and poor parenting does not a family make.

[xobehs]

ew.

[CatEyes]

It was a full moon last night...

[cheryln]

I have plenty of Christian people tell me spare the rod spoil the child. I did not say I always do spank her or like doing it I just said it works from the two times I tried. Most nights she is in her room awake until 11- 12 am.


spare the rod, spoil the child isn't even in the bible.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Because this is a sore spot for me, as a shepherdess, I want to point out that shepherds don't--and never have--beat their flocks of sheep. Sheep are--and were--valuable animals. They were guided, not beaten.

In fact, it's quite easy to get sheep to go where you want them to if you are able to get past the desire to lead them. You can't lead a sheep. Instead, you herd them. Then they go wherever you want them to go.

Which is a bit like children. Once you get past the urge to control them ("I am the parent and you will do as I say") and focus instead on cooperation ("We're a family and life will be better for all of us if we work together") it is rather easy to get them to do as you wish.

[momoffive]

I just want to thank everyone that offered advice to Frannie. She and her children are not the only ones benefitting from your words of wisdom. I was able to get my 2, 3, and 4 yr olds to help with chores around the house through guidance, praise, and example. Thank you everyone for helping me to see what should be done.

[xobehs]

Because this is a sore spot for me, as a shepherdess, I want to point out that shepherds don't--and never have--beat their flocks of sheep. Sheep are--and were--valuable animals. They were guided, not beaten.

In fact, it's quite easy to get sheep to go where you want them to if you are able to get past the desire to lead them. You can't lead a sheep. Instead, you herd them. Then they go wherever you want them to go.

Which is a bit like children. Once you get past the urge to control them ("I am the parent and you will do as I say") and focus instead on cooperation ("We're a family and life will be better for all of us if we work together") it is rather easy to get them to do as you wish.
Wow, I never thought of that. SUCH a brilliant point. I have a degree in ABA and not once in any of our "rat training" did we use punishers. Of course it would have been an ethical violation, but it was just never an option.

[BeanBabies]

I just want to thank everyone that offered advice to Frannie. She and her children are not the only ones benefitting from your words of wisdom. I was able to get my 2, 3, and 4 yr olds to help with chores around the house through guidance, praise, and example. Thank you everyone for helping me to see what should be done.

And that makes this entire thread worth it. :)

It's interesting. Once I started with this line of thinking, my/my kid's options just blossomed! Ideas just kept coming to me and things became so much easier!