spankings???

[frannie]

Do you spank your kids?

What are the circumstance's?

Do you think it works?



If you dont then what forms of punishment do you use, and do find that it works well?

[Bohemian]

No I do not spank my kids.

Depends on the situation but as far as punishment, we try to use consequences. If the kids are fighting over toys and after a warning they continue fight, we will take the toy away. They get it back but not for a couple of hours. If my older dd has a tantrum, she goes to her room to calm down. It's a not a time out because she is allowed to work puzzles or read until she calms down and is ready to talk. If we are out and someone decides to misbehave or act out, we leave. Other than that we do lots of talking about how things make us feel and how what we do makes others feel.

eta: my girls are 3 and 5 years old. Forgot to add also that I don't think spanking works. I tried it briefly with my older dd when she was 3 ish and it made things much worse and it was something I felt awful about. Still do sometimes. I've never spanked my second dd and she is so well behaved for a 3 year old.

[babymakes4]

I do not hit my children.

Right now, my 9 year old gets grounded and privleges taken away, it depends on the behavior.

My 2 1/2 year old, doesn't understand time outs yet, so we just redirect and try to teach by example. He is in the copy cat stage :)

[JustMoi]

I don't spank, but my kids are all 14 and up. I did spank when they were young, and it did work.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

nak

hitting is wrong and is not allowed in my house.

we don't punish.

[xobehs]

I'm the only one gettin spanked around here.
I wouldn't dream of striking a child.

[babymakes4]

nak

hitting is wrong and is not allowed in my house.

we don't punish.


I agree with u 100%, but you must have some sort of "dicipline" plan right?

[KaraJ]

I was spanked, and it worked for my parents and all their kids (they've had a lot). I spank my daughter, and it works very well, though I also do time out.
Sure, they don't like spankings, but that's kind of the point.

[frannie]

I have recently resorted to spanking my two older kids. DS 9 / DD 7

I this point I am at a loss, i feel that I have lost control of my childern. I have tried time-outs, grounding, taking away items and privliges, talking, having them writing stuff out.

Nothing has worked for us, they just refused to do what I ask of them. I dont ask that much by the way.


The funny thing is that I all ways get complement on how well behaived they are.

They are good kids, but they are stubborn.

[KaraJ]

9 isn't too old for spanking, but it's getting there. How did the spanking turn out? Did they mind?

[KaraJ]

Mind as in behave.

[frannie]

nak

hitting is wrong and is not allowed in my house.

we don't punish.


If you dont punish how so you deal with them when they misbehaive



BTW
I dont think spanking will work for to long either, I dont know what the next step will be

[babymakes4]

I can't even imagine spanking my 9 year old.....wow

[KaraJ]

I can, if time out and grounding doesn't work.

[Teresa64]

Time outs or quiet time has always worked the best around here. I have spanked my ds but I found that in a pitch just the threat of a spanking defuses a situation really fast.
We have also been taking away privlages, TV, XBox360.(And NO my son does not have an xbox360. DH does...lol.
I figured out along time ago we have to try new approaches frequently or we loose control fast.

[babymakes4]

I can, if time out and grounding doesn't work.


So that's it? If one or two forms of dicipline don't work u automatically resort to violence?

[frannie]

9 isn't too old for spanking, but it's getting there. How did the spanking turn out? Did they mind?


They were shocked that I let step dad do the spanking. The first few days they did listen and do what they were told. I would really like for them to listen because Im mom not because they were gonna get a spanking.

[vulturemom]

Do you spank your kids?No, neither does DH

What are the circumstance's?NA

Do you think it works?no



If you don't then what forms of punishment do you use, and do find that it works well?It depends on the situation and the child.We have done everything from redirecting, time outs to taking away a bedroom door. I am not saying we haven't had any challenges with our kids but, so far it hasn't been anything that makes me feel like a parenting failure. The worst I have heard from a teacher is that one of my kids were awful chatty. I will add that my kids range from 3 to 18.

[KaraJ]

My kids are more wary of the Dad too, but I have had to spank as well, so they know they can't brush by me. The thing is, my daughter knows I'm her mother, that she can come to me if she's scared or concerned about something because I AM mom, but she also knows that she can't act off, or I discipline her.

[KaraJ]

So that's it? If one or two forms of discipline don't work u automatically resort to violence? I was generalizing. It doesn't have to be two forms, it can be more. I meant that there are times when a swift swat to the rear is much more effective than other forms of punishment.
I don't believe in not punishing the child when it's warranted. If they act out, they need to know there's a consequence.

[vulturemom]

I will add that I never even encouraged blind obedience from my children. I am great with them challenging what I ask them to do as long as it is done in a respectful manner.

[babymakes4]

Oh hell no....If a step-parent "spanked" my child, he/she would never spank another soul again.

[Psyche]

We don't spank.

At DS's age we redirect or use logical consequences. If he keeps running from me while outside, we come back in. I also "make" him mind. If he's climbing for instance and won't stop after being asked. I offer to help him mind. If he doesn't mind still, I make him get down.

At 9 I would expect to have a discussion about the behavior, what instigated the behavior and have the child help me decide what we can do to keep it from happening again.

Children misbehave for reason. Sometimes its because they need something and cannot articulate why. As parents, I don't think it is our job to beat them to mind. It's our job to teach them to appropriately meet their needs, how to ask for help. Discipline is teaching. What does a beating teach a child? To fear their parents? Unconditionally obey? I don't want DS to learn either of those lessons.

A great book that lays the framework for not punishing is Unconditional Parenting. If you're a Christian, Grace Based Discipline is another good book.

I'm not perfect at this, but I am getting better.

I think too often adults view punishment through their eyes. The message a child recieves is often quite different. As adults, we need to use a little empathy and TEACH our children.

[Psyche]

Also the older the child, the more they need to make amends for their behavior.

If they hit a sibling, they need to examine WHY they hit a sibling, what they should do next time they feel like hitting (take a break, etc), and they need to make amends. Maybe sometimes its simply an apology. Other times it might be getting a sibling an ice pack, or making them something to correct the wrong.

[jessiehannan]

I will add that I never even encouraged blind obedience from my children. I am great with them challenging what I ask them to do as long as it is done in a respectful manner.
I am still working on the respectful part.

OP: What is it you are spanking him for? Just for not listening? What are you asking them to do?
When DH was younger his parents stripped every thing from his room except for the furniture. He would go to school, soccer, eat dinner and then go to his room. No books, no tv, no nothing. He had his own bathroom, so he didn't even have to leave the room for that. Maybe that would work for you.

[KaraJ]

Psyche, I liked your post. I like the logical consequences, and I've seen them work on several occasions. A nine year old is old enough to understand that. But when a child is younger, I've never had a problem in ordering blind obedience. Some times they're too young to grasp the natural order of things. Some times the most they can understand it "I will get in trouble if I touch that, so I won't."

[vulturemom]

I am still working on the respectful part.
What is it you are spanking him for? Just for not listening? What are you asking them to do?
When DH was younger his parents stripped every thing from his room except for the furniture. He would go to school, soccer, eat dinner and then go to his room. No books, no tv, no nothing. He had his own bathroom, so he didn't even have to leave the room for that. Maybe that would work for you.

I don't hit my kids. You must be mistaking my for another of the posters.

[frannie]

Oh hell no....If a step-parent "spanked" my child, he/she would never spank another soul again.


Why, is that just because you dont spank. He is thier PARENT, why should the word "step" take any thing away from him.

[Psyche]

When they're younger they are still small enough that you can physically make them obey.

Won't pick up their toys? Take their hands and one at a time pick up the toy with their hand and help them put it away. It's get off your butt parenting.

I don't know. I think that people who are firm believers in spanking, especially at a young age, need to have a thorough understanding of child development. What one thinks they are teaching their kids and what a kid is learning are often two different things. What seems inappropriate, is really a learning process and needs to be channeled directly.

I think that for every spanking there is SOMETHING else that would work infinitely better and make it a learning process, rather than a painful experience.

[AuLait]

Do you spank your kids? On occasion.

What are the circumstance's? We have a pretty defined order in which discipline occurs. Spanking is not our first, second, or even third option in most cases.

Do you think it works? I think it works better for some children than others. With our children we've found it to be effective.

[jessiehannan]

I don't hit my kids. You must be mistaking my for another of the posters.

I never said that you spanked. I ws just saying that I am still working on my kids being respectful when they question why I want them to do something. Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)
I edited my last post to make it make more sense.

[frannie]

I am still working on the respectful part.

OP: What is it you are spanking him for? Just for not listening? What are you asking them to do?.

Its mainly to clean there room and put thier clothes away. my daughter has clothes all over the floor and in her closet. She refuses to pick them up and hang them. Ive tried having her stay in her room till its done, nope. I tried telling her she would not get her new school clothes unitl the old ones were put away, nope its the third week of school and all the new clothes are in my closet still. I had her put all the clothes in bags and those are my closet, she was only able to keep what was hung or in her dresser. Right now there are still cloths on her floor, I sent her up to her room and she fell asleep. Thats what she does when ever she is sent to her room. I havent spanked her for it yet.

If not a spanking then what?????


.[/QUOTE]When DH was younger his parents stripped every thing from his room except for the furniture. He would go to school, soccer, eat dinner and then go to his room. No books, no tv, no nothing. He had his own bathroom, so he didn't even have to leave the room for that. Maybe that would work for you.[/QUOTE]

I dont think they really mind being in thier rooms because I cant monitor them. They are up stairs, I would have to stay up there all day too, Im not the one grounded.

[xobehs]

frannie,
there are quite a few books out there that would give you some more tools.
I like to suggest Phelan's Magic 1 2 3
there are others folks here will bring up I am sure.

[vulturemom]

How old is your DD, frannie?

[Psyche]

Frannie,

Why is it a big deal if she wants to live in filth? So long as it isn't a health issue (as in could cause rodents), why can't she have her own space the way she wants it?

If its creating more work for you in that she puts clean laundry in the dirty, then maybe she needs to take on the responsiblity of her laundry, if she's old enough.

How old is she? Even at 7 or 8 sometimes kids need specific direction. "Hang your clothes on the hanger and come tell me when your done." When she comes back "Pick up your blocks and put them in the toy chest and come and tell me when you're done," etc.

Honestly, unless it a health hazard, I would probably pick my battles, unless its shared room and is encroaching on a sibling's "stuff".

The other option would be to tell her that anything you find on her floor after X date will be going in a trash bag in the attic or basement and she will have to earn each toy back. And have a plan in place for her to earn a toy back, a chore a day, or a grade or something like that.

[tifttu]

I think for not cleaning a room, I'd do what my mom did with me...close the door. I did my own laundry starting around age 10, I think, so if I wore wrinkled clothes because I didn't hang them up, well, I wore wrinkled clothes. No power struggle involved.

[haleysmom]

I agree. What's the big deal that her room isn't clean? She has to live with it. I can't imagine hitting a child because their room is messy.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

They were shocked that I let step dad do the spanking. The first few days they did listen and do what they were told. I would really like for them to listen because Im mom not because they were gonna get a spanking.

I'm a bit shocked as well. It's pretty inappropriate, IMO, to have a stepparent physically punish a child.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

If you dont punish how so you deal with them when they misbehaive

It depends on the situation. Sometimes they need redirected, sometimes they need something else. A lot of times we discuss what's appropriate and help them come up with a better way of dealing with a situation.

It's my job to teach them how to control themselves, not to control them. What have they learned then?

[Psyche]

I'm a bit shocked as well. It's pretty inappropriate, IMO, to have a stepparent physically punish a child.



ITA, it goes contrary to everything reputable that you'd read about blended families.

[Teresa64]

I agree. What's the big deal that her room isn't clean? She has to live with it. I can't imagine hitting a child because their room is messy.

I find it a big deal if my son doesn't clean up his room. Its more like teaching him responsiblilty then anything else. I don't want him to be lazy and stuff things in a corner. Toys get broken that way and I am sorry but I don't want my money wasted because my son can't pick up his toys. Same with cloths. It doesn't take much effort to pick up after themselves.
I don't care how my son wants to live....he is going to live the way I want him too. I am the parent.

Now would I spank him oer it? I don't know. I guess it depends on the acual situation. Spanking is usually our last resort and there are very few times that it has acually happend.

And not to start an arguement or anything...but I think there is a big difference between spanking and beating. A spanking is to get a childs attention if needed not to hurt. I have NEVER spanked my ds hard enough to hurt. But for some reason it still works.

[xobehs]

And not to start an arguement or anything...but I think there is a big difference between spanking and beating. A spanking is to get a childs attention if needed not to hurt. I have NEVER spanked my ds hard enough to hurt. But for some reason it still works.
OK, but striking a child is still striking a CHILD.

[frannie]

I'm a bit shocked as well. It's pretty inappropriate, IMO, to have a stepparent physically punish a child.



Why do you feel that way

In the beginning didnt want him to either, i thought it might effect thier relationship. But after talking it over with thier father, he suggested it, I decided it might be a good idea.

After all he is thier parent

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

My dd is a messy child, Theresa, and what has helped with her is to have her work in her room for 10 minutes at a time. We all do it; my boys clean in their room or the playroom, I clean in the kitchen, dh cleans in the living room. That way she doesn't feel singled out.

It's overwhelming to clean a messy room, hard to know where to start. Ten minute increments makes it seem more manageable. And those 10 minutes add up.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

And not to start an arguement or anything...but I think there is a big difference between spanking and beating. A spanking is to get a childs attention if needed not to hurt. I have NEVER spanked my ds hard enough to hurt. But for some reason it still works.

One could argue, if they wanted, that spanking isn't beating. It is, however, hitting and hitting is wrong.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Why do you feel that way

In the beginning didnt want him to either, i thought it might effect thier relationship. But after talking it over with thier father, he suggested it, I decided it might be a good idea.

After all he is thier parent

Any child psychiatrist will tell you that it is inappropriate, even moreso than a natural parent hitting their child. Hell, even Dr. Phil advises strongly against it.

[Teresa64]

OK, but striking a child is still striking a CHILD.

Yea but there is line where it turns to abuse. I play fight with my ds harder than he would get a spanking. And I even "play" spank him harder then I acually spank him.
I feel that a beating is what my parents used to call a spanking. Using a leather belt on our bare butts. I could NEVER do that.

There are lots of ways to parent. While spanking isn't the best and is never our first, or second choice, sometimes it does work. And sometimes its the only thing that works to get his attention.

[Teresa64]

My dd is a messy child, Theresa, and what has helped with her is to have her work in her room for 10 minutes at a time. We all do it; my boys clean in their room or the playroom, I clean in the kitchen, dh cleans in the living room. That way she doesn't feel singled out.

It's overwhelming to clean a messy room, hard to know where to start. Ten minute increments makes it seem more manageable. And those 10 minutes add up.

I totally agree. I dont' put to high of expectations on my ds. He isn't expected to have his room clean every minute of every day. But what works for us is too clean up before we do anything else. Before each meal. Before he can do art or play dough. That way it never gets to overwhelming.

[xobehs]

Yea but there is line where it turns to abuse. I play fight with my ds harder than he would get a spanking. And I even "play" spank him harder then I acually spank him.
I feel that a beating is what my parents used to call a spanking. Using a leather belt on our bare butts. I could NEVER do that.

There are lots of ways to parent. While spanking isn't the best and is never our first, or second choice, sometimes it does work. And sometimes its the only thing that works to get his attention.
sadly I think you are bringing this up to make yourself feel better. It does nothing for me, hitting a child is just down right wrong/pathetic/sad/abuse of power/detrimental... I could go on and on.

[frannie]

I have tried lots of things with them, spanking wast the first choice and its also no the only thing im trying.

I havent read 123 magic, but have do use it if its this. 1&2 are warning with out yelling but just saying "thats 1" and 3 is 10 min in the corner.

That gets me a bunch of yelling and hitting the wall by my son and my daughter will just fall right to sleep(she pretty good at that), it svery frustraiting.

It did work when i modified it the other night when the kept play, shouting and running around instead of going to sleep.

i did the 1 and 2 and the 3 was a spanking, the last three days the have gone right to bed.

[TuetonicWillow]

As far as I am concerned, hitting someone for anything other than self defense is always wrong. Period.

That means no spanking in this house. Ever.

[frannie]

my daughter just came down stairs (she just woke up) did not pick up her clothes like she was told. What do you think i should do?

[Teresa64]

Send her back. Follow her. Have you tried taking things away from her yet? A favorite toy? Go in there pick up the toy or whatever and say this is mine unless you clean up yur toys.

[vulturemom]

Again how old is she? What would possibly work for a 10 y/o probably won't work for a3 y/o. I need to know an age before I can give suggestions.

[TuetonicWillow]

My children's stepmother used to spank them when she first came into the picture. I found about it and we were in court a month later revising the visitation order.

She wouldn't dare do it again.

[hotlama]

my daughter just came down stairs (she just woke up) did not pick up her clothes like she was told. What do you think i should do?

Tell her to pick up her clothes again. If she doesn't pick them up ground her to her room until she does. It's the weekend, she can be in there all day if needed.

[xobehs]

I havent read 123 magic, but have do use it if its this. 1&2 are warning with out yelling but just saying "thats 1" and 3 is 10 min in the corner.
.
It is a valuable read, it will help you gain tools in stop and start behaviors and be more appropriate based on age etc... It is NOT a simple concept.

[frannie]

I made out a schedual and chore list for them (DS 9/DD 7)

we have decide that the battle for them to clean thier room isnt worth the fight right now so this is what they have to do

1. down stairs and up stairs living room: keep babies toy organized and couches, stairs and floor free from clutter.

2. kitchen and upstairs bathroom: keep table and counter free from cluter, rince dinner dishes, and pick up toys from the bathtub.

they will switch off every week, also they will have to make thier beds in the morn and keep thiere cloths put away.


i dont think this is to much for them

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Ten minutes in a corner is eternity to a child. IIRC time-outs are supposed to be one minute for each year of life. For example, a three year old would have a time-out of three minutes max.

I know this sounds harsher than I mean it to be, but it's no wonder that children "misbehave" when the punishments are so severe. It makes me wonder about the expectations and just how age-appropriate they are.

[frannie]

She is 7 , will be 8 in december



Send her back. Follow her. Have you tried taking things away from her yet? A favorite toy? Go in there pick up the toy or whatever and say this is mine unless you clean up yur toys.

yes I have taken fav things from her. Play makeup, cowboy boots, shes a girly girl and loves to be dressy so i thought keeping her new clothes form her would get her to pick up but it didnt

[frannie]

Ten minutes in a corner is eternity to a child. IIRC time-outs are supposed to be one minute for each year of life. For example, a three year old would have a time-out of three minutes max.

I know this sounds harsher than I mean it to be, but it's no wonder that children "misbehave" when the punishments are so severe. It makes me wonder about the expectations and just how age-appropriate they are.



DS is 9 and DD is just about 8. I hardly think 1-2 min could be so server that it would be the casue of the misbehaving.

[vulturemom]

What worked for Becca (she was 10 at the time) Was getting a Clean laundry hamper and a dirty hamper. It wasn't my first choice but, it was one I could live with. And she was very good about getting the clothes in in the right hamper.

Her room looked better and I could go in there to get Tasha out at night if I needed to without fear of tripping. (They were sharing at the time) I was happy

She got to quite getting nagged pick her room up and a way to deal with clothes that she could live with so she was happy.


I also wanted to add at this point with your DD I would grab a book that I have been wanting to read for a while and go park myself on her bed and stay until the clothes are taken care of. Then after it is done talk about what would help prevent this from happening again.

I would also have her do one of your jobs to make up for the time that it took you to get her finish hers.

[frannie]

my problem with te clothes is that they take off the dirty ones and leave them on the floor next to the clean ones. They do have hampers in each of thier rooms.

I really think they just have no worries of being "talk to" im just going to go away and they can go back to what ever they want

[dalurker]

I was a spanker when I had small kids in the house. I regret the hell out of it and am philosophically opposed to hitting a kid. I was raised with an "obedient" mindset and carried that over into my own parenting because it was within my realm of normal. I'll be the first to admit that when I spanked, it was out of frustration and loss of control, not as some calm and thought out punishment. That's the thing that seems bizarre to me-- the idea of taking time to calm down and still thinking that hitting is a reasonable punishment.

We're considering adoption in the not too far off future. My husband and I have been talking this to death lately. Probably the single biggest issue that makes me doubt my ability to effectively parent a child is that I don't know if I can be 100% confident that I won't ever smack a butt in the heat of a frustrating moment. My parenting views have changed a lot over the years and I'm a lot less control freakish and obedience minded, but I'm scared that that philosophy will fly right out the window in the right circumstances. I mean, I know I won't just flog a child, but I don't know that I won't smack a butt in just the right circumstance even though every part of me knows it's wrong. That doubt could very well be the thing that makes me decide not to do adopt. I'm sickened by the thought of setting up a cycle of spanking and then apologizing and saying "I love you." That sounds too much like domestic violence to me and I'm scared to death of the idea of setting a kid up to think that's normal or acceptable.

I wish I could guarantee that I'd have that strength. I think hitting is so wrong and would rather work on ways not to do it at all than to justify it.

[Psyche]

Are you praising good efforts and behavior?

At 8, I would do some dialoguing. What does she think is fair? What can she come up with to help her clean up her room? A chore chart? A signal?

[vulturemom]

Are you praising good efforts and behavior?

At 8, I would do some dialoguing. What does she think is fair? What can she come up with to help her clean up her room? A chore chart? A signal?


I couldn't agree more with the bolded part. Becca was the one that came up with the two hamper system. I don't think it would have worked as well if I would have told her "this is what we are doing". She had the exact same issue clean and dirty all mingled together in one big heap.

[frannie]

[QUOTE=Psyche;513046]Are you praising good efforts and behavior?

QUOTE]


at this point i am so frustraited and overwhelmed that i dont praise as much as a could.

I dont wish to hurt my kids, but i want to but an end to the disrespectful behavior. I have DS2 who is 11months, I dont want him to pick up thier bad behavior.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I think the adult bears the responsibility of modelling the behavior that is expected in the home. Hitting is, by nature, disrespectful.

[haleysmom]

And not to start an arguement or anything...but I think there is a big difference between spanking and beating. A spanking is to get a childs attention if needed not to hurt. I have NEVER spanked my ds hard enough to hurt. But for some reason it still works.


What's the difference? The physical wounds are not my only concern.

Hitting is hitting. I was spanked, not beaten, as a child, and I didn't like how it made me feel. It is not the physical hurt that stays with a child.

I have a question for you. How do you teach your kids not to hit if you are hitting them?

[Psyche]

Are you praising good efforts and behavior?




at this point i am so frustraited and overwhelmed that i dont praise as much as a could.

I dont wish to hurt my kids, but i want to but an end to the disrespectful behavior. I have DS2 who is 11months, I dont want him to pick up thier bad behavior.


What exactly is disrespectful? Do you feel disrespected that she is ignoring your requests? Is she being mouthy?

And is it possible that something is going on? More stress in the family? Back to school jitters? Bullying at school? A mean teacher? Your youngest recently started doing something new? New Job?

[frannie]

I think the adult bears the responsibility of modelling the behavior that is expected in the home. Hitting is, by nature, disrespectful.

true

But i dont walk up to them and smack them with a belt.

They are told what they are expected to do, when they mess around and play instead I will call them to me, ask them what they are suppost to be doing, ask why they didnt, and ask what happends when you dont do what you are told. They say we get a spanking, thats the consequence or thier actions.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Whether you walk up and smack the piss out of them or hit them in some other way it doesn't change the fact that hitting is disrespectful. YOU are modelling bad behavior to the youngest, just like the older kids are. The difference is that it's your responsibility to teach your children how to behave, not the responsibility of older children to teach younger children (although that can be very nice).

I'm not sure why you expect more out of a 7 and 9 year old than you do from yourself.

[frannie]

What exactly is disrespectful? Do you feel disrespected that she is ignoring your requests? Is she being mouthy?

And is it possible that something is going on? More stress in the family? Back to school jitters? Bullying at school? A mean teacher? Your youngest recently started doing something new? New Job?


I feel that its disrespectful when they flat out dont do what i tell them to do.

There isnt any thing new going on

This behavor is not new, i try diffrent tactics with them, i just havent found what works.

[frannie]

Whether you walk up and smack the piss out of them or hit them in some other way it doesn't change the fact that hitting is disrespectful. YOU are modelling bad behavior to the youngest, just like the older kids are. The difference is that it's your responsibility to teach your children how to behave, not the responsibility of older children to teach younger children (although that can be very nice).

I'm not sure why you expect more out of a 7 and 9 year old than you do yourself.



i guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

what would you do in my situation since you dont punish. what do you do with children who dont do what they are repeatly told to do.
Im willing to try any thing, like I said spanking is not my first choice.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

In the case of not picking up clothes, I'd tell them that we don't keep our home like that. We're six people living in a small house (plus 29 chicks in a tub in the bathroom and a dog) and everyone must do their part or we'll live in cluttered chaos (more than we already do).

This makes sense to them. It's not adversarial. It's not a power play. It's cooperative. We all want to get along and keeping our own items put in the proper places helps us to get along.

IME children don't *like* conflict. They like for their homes and families to be harmonious. I think it is adults, with their insistence in having authority, who ruins that.

nak

[jessiehannan]

I don't get the big deal over the clothes either, The only reason I have my DD clean up her room is so that I can vaccum once a week to keep down allergens. To keep down on dirty clothes being thrown every where, my kids either get undressed in the laundry room, or the bathroom. That is it. While I don't think having your kids get undressed in the laundry room is an option, maybe the bathroom will work.

[frannie]

In the case of not picking up clothes, I'd tell them that we don't keep our home like that. We're six people living in a small house (plus 29 chicks in a tub in the bathroom and a dog) and everyone must do their part or we'll live in cluttered chaos (more than we already do).

This makes sense to them. It's not adversarial. It's not a power play. It's cooperative. We all want to get along and keeping our own items put in the proper places helps us to get along.

IME children don't *like* conflict. They like for their homes and families to be harmonious. I think it is adults, with their insistence in having authority, who ruins that.

nak


well that seems to work for you but thats not my situation.

what should i do now since i have already "ruined" the hormony????????

[Psyche]

I feel that its disrespectful when they flat out dont do what i tell them to do.

There isnt any thing new going on

This behavor is not new, i try diffrent tactics with them, i just havent found what works.


Well, I guess, to me, it depends. Are they saying "uh-uh, mom. You can't make me." Or do they get distracted?

What would happen if you helped or sat on the bed while she did it?

What would happen if you pulled DD aside and said, "DD, I feel disrespected when I tell you to do something and you don't do it. I don't like feeling this way. What can we do about it?"

Again, after trying cooperation, asking for suggestions from DD and trying them out, IF and only then IF it still wasn't working out. I would set a day and time of X and say that if she doesn't clean up her room (and specify what clean is), then everything on the floor is going in the basement and allow her to earn the stuff back. I would give daily reminders about cleaning the room in a neutral tone (not nagging) and if when she went to school the stuff wasn't done, I would remove everything not put away to the basement. When she came home and calmed down (since she'll be upset), I'd outline how she can earn the stuff back.

[Psyche]

well that seems to work for you but thats not my situation.

what should i do now since i have already "ruined" the hormony????????



You can get it back by asking the kids for their cooperation. "X needs to be done and we all need to help. How should we make this happen." Kids love to feel heard, love to feel like their opinions and feelings matter. What they help create, they are more likely to help maintain (with help and encouragement of course).

[Tweet]

I've spanked. I've spanked when I've felt like I was at the end of my rope and out of extreme frustration. It was done to me and so it was an easy discipline" tool" to turn to during those moments. Did it work? Well, sure. It stopped whatever was going on at the time. But it didn't do wonders for our relationship. And I really don't want my kids behaving a certain way because they are afraid of me..I want them to help get along because it feels good and they WANT to.

What's worked best for our kids is positive discipline. This is not punitive and takes some creativity on my part. It's been by far the most effective way to discipline and I've got 3 very very stubborn, spirited kids. It's also been great at keeping EVERYONE'S dignity intact and feeling respected.

[frannie]

I don't get the big deal over the clothes either, The only reason I have my DD clean up her room is so that I can vaccum once a week to keep down allergens. To keep down on dirty clothes being thrown every where, my kids either get undressed in the laundry room, or the bathroom. That is it. While I don't think having your kids get undressed in the laundry room is an option, maybe the bathroom will work.


the laundry closet is right across form thier rooms (with hampers) and thier bathroom is right next to that. They also take thier clothes off in there and big surpise , leave cloths on the floor.

i would also like to be able to vaccum the rooms, thats the big deal. Its not just clothes , its toys , school work, ect. and yes they have containers for all.


can you see why im so frustraited

[frannie]

Are you praising good efforts and behavior?

At 8, I would do some dialoguing. What does she think is fair? What can she come up with to help her clean up her room? A chore chart? A signal?


i talked to her about why her clothes are like this
she said it beacuse when she gets ready for school she tries diffrent outfits on and tooses the ones she doesnt like one the floor unitl she finds the one she likes (typical girl).

she thought she should have a rack next to her mirror like the fitting room attendants. I suggested that she pick out five school outfit today and have them ready in her closet. she liked that idea.

Lets hope this works out.

[Psyche]

That's great Frannie! If after a couple days it doesn't work, remind her about your discussion and ask if anything else might work.

You could also get those cloth closet things that you hang from the clothes bar and it has seperate compartments that hang down and have her pick out her clothes for the week on Sunday. One compartment for each out fit. She can even put socks and underware in there.

[frannie]

thats a good idea, i think ill go look for those today.

[frannie]

:mad:
OMG
i just went to check on them, DD has not picked up any clothes and she is in DS messy room painting her nails

so frustraiting:mad:
this is when i want to get the belt, since i have told her several times, its not even that much.... why cant they just listen

[JustMoi]

Sounds like deliberate defiance at this point.

[babymakes4]

:mad:
OMG
i just went to check on them, DD has not picked up any clothes and she is in DS messy room painting her nails

so frustraiting:mad:
this is when i want to get the belt, since i have told her several times, its not even that much.... why cant they just listen


Take your daughter to her room, close the door, sit on her bed, and give her direction. "First I want you to pick up these clothes over here" "Now I want you to put these books on this shelf here"

She doesn't leave the room and niether do you until it is done.

I would let your other child know that he is next if it's not done by the time your DD gets done with her room.

[frannie]

Sounds like deliberate defiance at this point.


exactly

[frannie]

BM4
Im going to try that now. I let you all know how it works

thank you ladies for trying to help me through this one

[babymakes4]

BM4
Im going to try that now. I let you all know how it works

thank you ladies for trying to help me through this one


Just stay calm, and make it matter of fact.

[xobehs]

So, they are "being deliberately defiant" despite the fact that they have spanking parents. Huh, someone please explain to me how spanking "works".

[Psyche]

So, they are "being deliberately defiant" despite the fact that they have spanking parents. Huh, someone please explain to me how spanking "works".


I know this is a debate board, but she seems open to suggestions and is trying something other than spanking. I think it shuts down conversation when people who are trying to change feel criticized, you know?

[Indigo]

No I don't hit my kids, under any circumstances. No it doesn't work, we use respectful guidance. Hitting is wrong.

[PiccoloRose]

We do not spank. I do not believe they work and also do not believe it is right to hit anyone, more the less a child.

DD is about to turn 3. We use time-ins and losing a favorite movie or toy for a day with her. When she is really misbehaving she will get a warning first, and then a time-in if the behavior continues. Usually the time-in works very well, but if she is still doing the same behavior after her time-in then she will either lose a favorite toy for the day or not get to watch a movie/cartoons the next morning (as we usually only do TV in the mornings).

In her time-ins she still gets her books. It is mostly a way for he to calm down and re-group. If she is really upset about it then I'll go sit with her and we'll read a little. If she is sitting by herself she gets 2-3 minutes (based on her age) there to calm down.

There are a few things that she goes right to time-in with no warning first. One of those is biting, another is hitting in the face.

[haleysmom]

i talked to her about why her clothes are like this
she said it beacuse when she gets ready for school she tries diffrent outfits on and tooses the ones she doesnt like one the floor unitl she finds the one she likes (typical girl).

she thought she should have a rack next to her mirror like the fitting room attendants. I suggested that she pick out five school outfit today and have them ready in her closet. she liked that idea.

Lets hope this works out.

See now this is a solution to the messy room problem. Hitting her doesn't really help with the room cleaning situation. This sounds like it might.

[haleysmom]

:mad:
OMG
i just went to check on them, DD has not picked up any clothes and she is in DS messy room painting her nails

so frustraiting:mad:
this is when i want to get the belt, since i have told her several times, its not even that much.... why cant they just listen

Wait... I missed this. A belt?? Are you serious??

[hidesome]

Wait... I missed this. A belt?? Are you serious??

I've said this several times on this board. I used to be beaten with a belt by both my parents. That evolved to naked beatings. That evolved to the use of boards and so on. I never "listened" either I suppose. Eventually, I did get big enough to fight back. Frankly, they are lucky to be alive.

Hitting kids accomplishes nothing. In many cases it is downright destructive. I would strongly recommend that you consider another method to instill appropriate behaviors.

[xobehs]

I know this is a debate board, but she seems open to suggestions and is trying something other than spanking. I think it shuts down conversation when people who are trying to change feel criticized, you know?


She is the one who brought up the belt, and she is NOT the only one who has defended hitting. So, I could give 2 hoots if I am being critical, this is a serious issue and I stand by my comment.

[haleysmom]

[QUOTE=hidesome;513260]I've said this several times on this board. I used to be beaten with a belt by both my parents. That evolved to naked beatings. That evolved to the use of boards and so on. I never "listened" either I suppose. Eventually, I did get big enough to fight back. Frankly, they are lucky to be alive.

[QUOTE]

:( I'm sorry

[jessiehannan]

I was thinking about this earlier today, and maybe she just can't find things if they are picked up and put away where they belong. (Out of sight out of mind. If I can't see it, it doesn't exist) Clear or mesh organizers might help, and maybe match up her clothes by outfit (with her help of course) and then hang them up together on one hanger.

[JustMoi]

Another option is to have her set out an outfit the night before, and that's the one she must wear. No changing and flinging it around in search of another.

[jessiehannan]

Or you can give her a set amount of time to get an outfit and get dressed, then you get to pick what she wears. I give my DD 5 minutes to pick her clothes and put them on. (Only because she procrastinates something awful)

[Tweet]

Hidesome is right. Ime and Imo, spankings just keep evolving into something more. It just makes more sense to me to find a solution and also let the children get involved in finding a solution. The thing is, that all takes some effort. Spanking is an easy way out and the form of a lazy, less than creative mind. Hey, I've been there , too when at my wit's end. It's served me well for ME to take some time out, calm down, and then work together to find a solution.

[frannie]

thanks for all the input, it helps to get diffrent point of view and ideas.

As I said spanking wasnt my first choice and not something that Im happy about or that I even want to get to the point where choose to spank. Thats why I posted this question. My hope with spanking was they would see that there are serious consequences when they misbehave and that they would just listen so they wouldnt get spankings.

This is a new method Im trying out. I have spoken to a child advocacy counselor about this , he told me it was an exceptable form of punishment as long as it wasnt done to make the parent feel better.

They have been spanked a few times and it seems that just the reminder of a spanking as the punishment has been able to work.

Im sorry to hear about the experience some have had as children who were spanked. I to was disciplined that way, but my father always explained why were getting spanked and it was always a controlled situation.

[QuiltyConscience]

Frannie, I have a book I'd like to recommend..

Kids are worth it, By Barbara Coloroso

Here's one on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kids-are-Worth-It-by-Barbara-Coloroso-Parenting_W0QQitemZ120304259217QQihZ002QQcategoryZ 378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's a pretty good review

http://www0.epinions.com/review/Kids_Are_Worth_It__Giving_Your_Child_the_Gift_of_I nner_Discipline_by_Barbara_Coloroso/content_422214930052

[Bellaelle]

Take her nail polish away until she picks up her clothes. I would be livid. That is defiance and I do not tolerate that from a child.

[QuiltyConscience]

On the more immediate question of getting the 7 yo to pick up her stuff:

I found when my my own 8 yo son was younger, that if I sent him to his room to "just clean it" he will get quickly distracted and build a fantastic lego/Matchbox cars disaster site. He had no real idea what exactly clean meant to *me* as a crash site looks great to *him*.

Then I'd go in, messy room, with extra mess, I'd be aggravated, and fuss, then he'd feel bad, and there we are both unhappy. And there was still a messy room.

But if I went to his room with him, and picked up a few books while he picked up legos and cars, clean up time would go quickly, he'd tell me all about his monster cars and where his dragon liked to sit in his room, and was much more pleasant for everyone. I backed off the picking up myself, and would just sit in his room with knitting and chat with him while he'd pick stuff up.

I still do sit in his room when he's picking up. It's kinda nice now actually.

( unexpected bonus: He often will come to me when I am working on a project, or when I clean my room and say " you want me to keep you company while you work?" )

[JudyJudyJudy]

Hitting kids accomplishes nothing. In many cases it is downright destructive. I would strongly recommend that you consider another method to instill appropriate behaviors.
Hidesome, as you know, we often disagree on topics. However, this is an area where we are in complete agreement, and I greatly respect you for your views on this topic.

[Sunnie]

I agree. What's the big deal that her room isn't clean? She has to live with it. I can't imagine hitting a child because their room is messy.


Seriously OTT

[Sunnie]

I feel that its disrespectful when they flat out dont do what i tell them to do.

There isnt any thing new going on

This behavor is not new, i try diffrent tactics with them, i just havent found what works.


I don't think I'd listen to you either. You sound hysterical and controlling.

[Sunnie]

I've said this several times on this board. I used to be beaten with a belt by both my parents. That evolved to naked beatings. That evolved to the use of boards and so on. I never "listened" either I suppose. Eventually, I did get big enough to fight back. Frankly, they are lucky to be alive.

Hitting kids accomplishes nothing. In many cases it is downright destructive. I would strongly recommend that you consider another method to instill appropriate behaviors.

One of the very few things I agree with you on.

[Sunnie]

I don't necessarily think she was being defiant with the nail painting. Maybe she started to work and just got overwhelmed by it. I've done that I dont' know how many times.

I prefer to give kids the benefit of the doubt.

[nicurn]

I use BM4's method of increased direction when initial directions aren't followed. Mine are 7, 5 and 2, and they have learned to follow the house rules because I was with them to model and enforce the behavior, not because they are hit.

In fact, when I have resorted to violence, it tends to bring a lot of chaos and decrease my kids' ability to follow directions independently. They do less and require more verbal repetition, because they are afraid to attempt independent acts.

With the method BM4 detailed, they are rewarded for listening by being given increased independence and praise ("I'm so proud of you for doing that without my help!").

[frannie]

I don't think I'd listen to you either. You sound hysterical and controlling.


how does asking my kids to keep thierroom clean and cloths off the floor make me hysterical and controlling???

[frannie]

Frannie, I have a book I'd like to recommend..

Kids are worth it, By Barbara Coloroso

Here's one on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kids-are-Worth-It-by-Barbara-Coloroso-Parenting_W0QQitemZ120304259217QQihZ002QQcategoryZ 378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's a pretty good review

http://www0.epinions.com/review/Kids_Are_Worth_It__Giving_Your_Child_the_Gift_of_I nner_Discipline_by_Barbara_Coloroso/content_422214930052



thank you for the link. That seems like a good book for me.

I would like to have the backbone kind of family.

[Sunnie]

how does asking my kids to keep thierroom clean and cloths off the floor make me hysterical and controlling???

Automatically assuming a child is just being willfully disobedient instead of trying to see things from the child's POV is a bit controlling. Did you read my other post about maybe she was overwhelmed and gave up? Did you stop to consider that? Or did you just fly right to "she willfully disobeyed me"

[frannie]

Sunnie you seem to think that Im abusive. Im really not .

I might be more of a push over, which is why my kids dont listen to me in the first place.

I ask them several times to do what they are told, i give time outs, i explaine (probly overdo it) I get frustrated and get into the "just forget it" mode.

arent kids suppost to listen to thier parents (in a perfect world)

i just want to get to that point. I am open to suggestions, spanking is what
I said i wouldnt do do my kids. So Im not proud, and I knew I would get lots of
"opinions" thats why i posted

[haleysmom]

Frannie, I'm still wondering about the belt. You keep talking about using spankings as your discipline technique, you came up with a plan for her room, one thing goes wrong and you say you want to get the belt.

Do you seriously hit them with a belt?

[Wolverine]

I will never hit my children. I will not create an adversial relationship with my children. My kids listen because we listen to each other in this house - they don't necesarily obey all the time. That is the atmosphere we have created.

I love the book "How to talk with you children and listen so your children will talk"

Please stop hitting your children especially with weapons (belts).

[frannie]

yeah, thats what spanking is to me.

I felt like getting the belt at that moment because I had done every thing else I know to do and she just didnt care, she was still going to do what she wanted which was to not pick up clothes.

[haleysmom]

Ok, I can't speak for everyone here, but I'm pretty sure that the few people here that did/do use spanking as a discipline tool are NOT hitting their kids with belts.

[frannie]

P.S

I dont think it really hurts because when i walk away i hear them laughing. ????

[frannie]

I guess I should have made it clear i was using a belt

[haleysmom]

P.S

I dont think it really hurts because when i walk away i hear them laughing. ????


You need to understand that it's not just about the physical hurt. Their mother and protector is hitting them with a belt. Imagine what that feels like to a small child.

It also doesn't sound like you are belting them because it's a technique that works. It sounds like you are hitting them out of your own frustration. You came up with a plan, that failed so you wanted to go straight to the belt.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

My hope with spanking was they would see that there are serious consequences when they misbehave and that they would just listen so they wouldnt get spankings.

If spanking worked why would parents have to use it more than once or twice?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

how does asking my kids to keep thierroom clean and cloths off the floor make me hysterical and controlling???

I don't know that you sound hysterical and controlling, but I think that you sound very authoritarian. Are you upset because the room is messy or because you aren't being unquestionally obeyed?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

arent kids suppost to listen to thier parents (in a perfect world)

How about 'in a perfect world families listen to each other'?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

yeah, thats what spanking is to me.

I felt like getting the belt at that moment because I had done every thing else I know to do and she just didnt care, she was still going to do what she wanted which was to not pick up clothes.

Understanding this level of adversarial, authoritarian parenting is beyond me.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I guess I should have made it clear i was using a belt

Hitting a child with a belt is abuse. Hitting a child because you're not getting your way is fucked up, terrible parenting. Does their stepfather hit them with a belt too?

[haleysmom]

Sunnie you seem to think that Im abusive. Im really not .

I might be more of a push over, which is why my kids dont listen to me in the first place.

I ask them several times to do what they are told, i give time outs, i explaine (probly overdo it) I get frustrated and get into the "just forget it" mode.

arent kids suppost to listen to thier parents (in a perfect world)

i just want to get to that point. I am open to suggestions, spanking is what
I said i wouldnt do do my kids. So Im not proud, and I knew I would get lots of
"opinions" thats why i posted


So in your own words you are a pushover. You don't stand by what you tell them to do. You normally "ask them several times to do what they are told".

It's not fair to your kids. You are being inconsistant. You say you normally tell them several times, they know you are normally a pushover and don't mean what you say. Then yesterday, she didn't listen to you the first time and you wanted to hit her with a belt. How is that fair to her? How is that not totally confusing to them? How is that teaching them anything?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Not only is it not teaching them anything, but then she hits them with a fucking belt for not having learned.

What terrible parenting. I'm honestly appalled and that's not easy to do.

[haleysmom]

frannie... were you the person who had their own website that adocated spankings or do I have you confused with someone else?

[haleysmom]

Ok frannie... I just saw the pictures of your adorable kids on your page. I can't imagine hitting any of them with a freaking belt :(

eta: not that I could ever imagine hitting any child... or person... with a belt.

[MissionaryMomma]

I won't jump on anyone because I'm not one to be able to cast the first stone. I will say, however, that it sounds like Momma needs to take a time out herself before each disciplinary action. I understand immediate and irrational anger (and so does Babymakes4, iirc), but out actions when we are angry is what scars. Step back. Take a deep breath. Remember how much you love the disobedient little bugger, and then take age-appropriate actions.

Fannie, you are not the only person in the world to ever use a belt. But, it's a good thing that you are here, asking for alternatives. Love your children. Do what is best for them. In your heart, you know that's what you want.

[MissionaryMomma]

IOW, when you know better, you do better.

[TuetonicWillow]

I stay clear from people like you IRL, Frannie. I'd have a hard time restraining myself from using my own belt on you if I ever saw you do it to a child.

You're not spanking a child, you're whipping a child. Literally.

[Sunnie]

Where did I call you abusive Frannie? you're putting words in my mouth.

[Sunnie]

But I will now, knowing you do indeed use a belt.

[KaraJ]

But I will now, knowing you do indeed use a belt.
*rolls eyes* THAT'S helpful.

[xobehs]

*rolls eyes* THAT'S helpful.


huh?

[TuetonicWillow]

*rolls eyes* THAT'S helpful.


Did you have anything contructive to add?

[cream_city]

Spanking with a belt is abusive, and I'm sure that the child advocate you spoke with did not understand you were using a belt. They also said not to use it to release the parent's own frustration:

You are hitting your children -- and letting their stepfather hit them -- with a weapon out of frustration and anger.

This is a dangerous situation. I think it is good you posted here, and I think you would be wise to stop hitting your children with a belt for any reason until you've had time to think through what you're doing.

[KaraJ]

Maybe instead of jumping down her throat, you could be helpful and understanding.. Course "helpful" and "understanding" never were your things, Willow.

[KaraJ]

True, I don't think a belt is the answer, I'm not sure about the legality of it anyways, but the hand is more than legal.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I don't understand hitting people. I really, really don't understand hitting people who are young and small--who cannot hit me back--with a weapon.

No, I can not be understanding.

[cream_city]

Maybe instead of jumping down her throat, you could be helpful and understanding.. Course "helpful" and "understanding" never were your things, Willow.

In my opinion, the situation is dangerous and she needs to wake up to that. This is not the time to be "understanding" -- these children are being beaten -- and yes, I call spanking with an implement beating -- by their stepfather and mother for leaving dirty clothes on the floor.

I think she needs to see that this is an ott response to a typical childhood behavior. She doesn't need "understanding."

[Sunnie]

Maybe instead of jumping down her throat, you could be helpful and understanding.. Course "helpful" and "understanding" never were your things, Willow.

Are we reading the same thread? Several helpful and constructive suggestions were given. Excuses were made as well, for why she couldn't try them.

[KaraJ]

It's called discipline, Sasha. It's called the consequence to an action.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

No, it's called punishment. Discipline and punishment aren't mutually exclusive.

Don't condescend to me.

[KaraJ]

Are we reading the same thread? Several helpful and constructive suggestions were given. Excuses were made as well, for why she couldn't try them.
Yes, I read it. And no, I wouldn't use the belt on my kids, but jumping all over her isn't going to solve the problem.

[KaraJ]

Don't condescend to me.
You make it hard not to.

[Sunnie]

Yes, I read it. And no, I wouldn't use the belt on my kids, but jumping all over her isn't going to solve the problem.


Neither will finger wagging.

[KaraJ]

Neither will finger wagging. *laughs* Okay, truce.

[xobehs]

Yes, I read it. And no, I wouldn't use the belt on my kids, but jumping all over her isn't going to solve the problem.

I don't continue to stroke gently when someone talks about using a belt after they were gently stroked and given solid advice.

[Tweet]

Seriously, beating children with a belt is abusive. That isn't spanking. This poster needs to be aware of that. Suggestions have been made, books have been recommended, hell..I'm sure there is some sort of anger support for her somewhere .

It's just extremely hard for me to fathom, I guess. I mean, I've had instant anger before. I've swatted my kid's behinds before and felt like complete crap and believe me, it was absolutely not a shining moment in my mothering. But I cannot ( and really don't want to) imagine hitting with things like paddles and certainly not a belt. And for what? Messy rooms and clothes?? That is not some sort of serious infraction, number one. This person is very out of control with her own emotions and what's funny is that she's upset that her KID throws a tantrum.

[Sunnie]

Precisely Tweet

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

You make it hard not to.

Yet I have well-behaved children who don't need to be hit in order for us to have a functioning, successful home.

[KaraJ]

Of course YOUR going to say your children are well behaved. Most mothers think their children are well behaved. My kiddies are well behaved, and I spank 'em.

[KaraJ]

As far as legality, can anyone find a government site that says what is or isn't legal? I think as long as there are no marks, it's legal. I may be wrong though, I can't find a site.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Of course YOUR going to say your children are well behaved. Most mothers think their children are well behaved.

Well, then. I stand corrected. We mothers have no credibility regarding our perfect little angels.

:rolleyes:

I've still managed to aquire enough intelligence to know the difference between punishment and discipline. Go me.

[KaraJ]

Well, then. I stand corrected. We mothers have no credibility regarding our perfect little angels.
Some times, they don't have any credibility. I really DO hope your kids are well behaved.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Some times, they don't have any credibility.

Indeed.

[Bellaelle]

Does she hit with a belt for sure? I am thinking maybe she meant to say she did not use a belt.

I would hate to think she would hit her children with a belt. That is abusive.

[KaraJ]

Indeed. A.K.A. Mothers who are too blinded too know when their kid needs a smack on the butt.

[Teresa64]

Seriously, beating children with a belt is abusive. That isn't spanking. This poster needs to be aware of that. Suggestions have been made, books have been recommended, hell..I'm sure there is some sort of anger support for her somewhere .

It's just extremely hard for me to fathom, I guess. I mean, I've had instant anger before. I've swatted my kid's behinds before and felt like complete crap and believe me, it was absolutely not a shining moment in my mothering. But I cannot ( and really don't want to) imagine hitting with things like paddles and certainly not a belt. And for what? Messy rooms and clothes?? That is not some sort of serious infraction, number one. This person is very out of control with her own emotions and what's funny is that she's upset that her KID throws a tantrum.


I know here spanking is legal unless you spank with an object. So spanking with a belt is illigal and CPS can get involved.

[MissionaryMomma]

Oh no, you didn't!

Everybody, duck!

[KaraJ]

Seriously. You didn't just say that. Classless.

[MissionaryMomma]

Someone is showing her clASS.

[Sunnie]

Seriously. You didn't just say that. Classless.


I don't think Missionary is the classless one here.

[xobehs]

MM, so not worth your compassion and intelligence.
Good to see you ;)

[KaraJ]

If she didn't leave marks, it's legal as far as I know. States may vary.

[KaraJ]

I wasn't talking to MM.

[Sunnie]

If she didn't leave marks, it's legal as far as I know. States may vary.


It's state by state, but many states classify it as abuse if you use anything other than your hand. That would include belt, wooden spoon, fly swatters or any other kind of "switch" or "paddle" you can think of.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

It's all good. I don't mind being seen as non-credible by someone who is such an awful parent that they actually advocate hitting others.

I'm actually quite fine with that. And my kids certainly don't need to prove anything to her.

[haleysmom]

Does she hit with a belt for sure? I am thinking maybe she meant to say she did not use a belt.

I would hate to think she would hit her children with a belt. That is abusive.


Yes, for sure :(

[KaraJ]

It's all good. I don't mind being seen as non-credible by someone who is such an awful parent that they actually advocate hitting others.
Don't make me laugh! :D

[MissionaryMomma]

Good to "see" you, too, backwards shebox. :)

KaraJ doesn't know me. She has yet to learn how wonderful and sweet I truly am ;)

A side note---anyone watch Green Acres? I'm watching one where Mr. Haney sold the Ziffels a washing machine. Hillarious!

[KaraJ]

Actually, MM, I really wasn't talking to you, so I'm sorry if it sounded like I was insulting you. I was talking to the poster above you.

[Tweet]

Why on earth would anyone assume that non spanking parents couldn't possibly have well behaved children? Asinine. I often wonder if some people choose to have children just so they can have someone obey them and to use quite literally as an object to control and whip.

[MissionaryMomma]

I still stand by my statement about your class, but thank you for the apology.

[Bellaelle]

If she didn't leave marks, it's legal as far as I know. States may vary.


Kara, just because it is legal in some areas of the country does not make it right.

You and I are anti abortion. It is sadly legal, but we know it is not right.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Why on earth would anyone assume that non spanking parents couldn't possibly have well behaved children? Asinine.
I think it's because it's hard to justify your behavior if people can have the same--or better--results without it.

I often wonder if some people choose to have children just so they can have someone obey them and to use quite literally as an object to control and whip.

I agree.

[KaraJ]

I often wonder if some people choose to have children just so they can have someone obey them and to use quite literally as an object to control and whip.
*rolls eyes* What a pathetic statement.

Bellaelle, as far as spanking is concerned, I really don't see anything wrong with using a belt, spatula (what my mom used on me), or anything else, as long as there isn't a mark.



Yowsa, did that spatula sting, or what!!! :) it certainly got me to mind, AND I still loved my mother. What a shock!

[Bellaelle]

Kara, it is degrading to be hit with an object. I would hate it if my dh hit me with a belt or spatula to make me listen.

[KaraJ]

Yes, but Bellaelle, there's a difference between two adults hitting each other, and a mother spanking her little one to teach them to mind. It's discipline. I was maybe six when my mom spanked me with a spatula, and yeah, I didn't like getting smacked, but it made me listen. As time went on, I got spanked a lot less, because I remembered to listen.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

There is a difference. One is assault and battery.

The other should be.

[KaraJ]

Your so dramatic, Sasha. Why do I bother trying to explain myself? On well.

[nicurn]

Yes, but Bellaelle, there's a difference between two adults hitting each other, and a mother spanking her little one to teach them to mind. It's discipline. I was maybe six when my mom spanked me with a spatula, and yeah, I didn't like getting smacked, but it made me listen. As time went on, I got spanked a lot less, because I remembered to listen.


KaraJ, how is it different? When I was in an abusive relationship, he hit me because he couldn't get through to me any other way. He really felt that he had no other options. He loved me very much, and sure enough, his violence got my attention and I strove to please him (and avoid further violence). It was a very effective method of discipline in our relationship.

However, I still maintain that hitting is wrong, regardless of its effectiveness. There is always a better alternative.

[TuetonicWillow]

Maybe instead of jumping down her throat, you could be helpful and understanding.. Course "helpful" and "understanding" never were your things, Willow.


I am quite helpful and understanding to many.

Those who whip children don't qualify.

[KaraJ]

Sometimes there is a better alternative. I'll admit that. I don't spank my daughter EVERY time she's out of line. Sometimes she's sent to "the corner." It's actually timeout, but corner is easier to say, and she's understands what it means.

[KaraJ]

I am quite helpful and understanding to many. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Tricia, apparently you don't have any credibility with KaraJ either. :( It's okay. We'll get through this difficult time together.

Somehow.

[KaraJ]

Tricia, apparently you don't have any credibility with KaraJ either. It's okay. We'll get through this difficult time together.

Somehow. This is a "difficult time?" Man, you have it easy!

[xobehs]

Lmfao!

[Tweet]

*rolls eyes* What a pathetic statement.

Bellaelle, as far as spanking is concerned, I really don't see anything wrong with using a belt, spatula (what my mom used on me), or anything else, as long as there isn't a mark.



Yowsa, did that spatula sting, or what!!! :) it certainly got me to mind, AND I still loved my mother. What a shock!

Some people have serious control issues. If you aren't one of those people, why take offense? What kind of parent thinks it's ok to strike children with an object?
You obviously have different values and goals for your children. I prefer my children to do things because they feel better when it's done, not because they are fearful of being hit. That's lazy parenting and I really want no part of it. Your point about still loving your mother does nothing to sway me. I was hit with objects as well and while I still loved my parents, I resent the fact they chose to do that. At least now there are more resources available.

[Bellaelle]

Children learn by example. If you hit a child with an object to get them to listen, who is to say they will not do the same to other children?

[Tweet]

Meh. KaraJ is a shitty fucking parent. Her being ridiculously sarcastic won't change that and she knows it. I'm not at all convinced that she's a woman, let alone a mother.

[KaraJ]

If you aren't one of those people, why take offense
.... Do I sound offended? I didn't realize you might think that. I'm not. If I feel the need to defend spanking, it's only because *some* people here have such a need to attack. But no, I'm not offended. I'm having a splendid morning.

[KaraJ]

Children learn by example. If you hit a child with an object to get them to listen, who is to say they will not do the same to other children? I think most (not all) children know the difference between their parents spanking them, and themselves hitting their sibling. I sure did. And my daughter does.
Tweet, I could prove my femininity, but why? I couldn't care less if you thought me a single man.

[dalurker]

I get what it's like to be so frustrated you swat a butt. I think it's wrong, but I get it. It's understandable to me.

I grew up with similar punishment techniques described here (hitting with objects), but I still do not get what drives someone to want to grab an object to hit their kids. To me, that seems to be the point at which total control is lost and probably the best time to walk away and take a break. If you're not in control of yourself, how can you expect to control that kid in that situation? It seems unreasonable to expect a child to manage self control in a situation where you've lost yours.

I think the most disturbing thing to me, though, is when people say they can hit when perfectly calm and rational after they've taken time to cool off. I'm really boggled that a calm and rational person could still see hitting as an option. I get loss of self control, but I don't think I can understand being in total control and still thinking hitting is a good idea. That's kind of disturbing to me.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I couldn't care less if you thought me a single man.
Nor does anyone care what you think of their parenting.

[trylyn5]

I'm jumping into this conversation and have only read bits and pieces but I think it might be worse for a child to see some one they love hit them calmly and rationaly than it would be for them to see someone hit them in anger.

[KaraJ]

Nor does anyone care what you think of their parenting. I WISH that were the case! The way everyone is spouting off though, I have a hard time believing that.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I believe the OP was asking for suggestions and advice.

[KaraJ]

I'm jumping into this conversation and have only read bits and pieces but I think it might be worse for a child to see some one they love hit them calmly and rationaly than it would be for them to see someone hit them in anger. I agree, but I also think a spanking should be done in the moment a child is doing the wrong, or whatever. That way they know exactly what it is they're getting in trouble for, regardless of how the parent is feeling.

[KaraJ]

I believe the OP was asking for suggestions and advice.
And I gave it earlier.

[xobehs]

KaraJ, do you have pets and do you use punishment to "learn" them.

[KaraJ]

I have had pets before, and yes, I'd smack Buster on the rear if he was caught having a potty break in the house. He learned.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

And I gave it earlier.

And the rest of us are having a discussion. Discussion does not equal (and I'm sure that I can speak for most posters when I say this) hoping for KaraJ's approval. In fact, I'd assume that most are happy when they *don't* meet your approval.

[KaraJ]

[QUOTE]In fact, I'd assume that most are happy when they *don't* meet your approval.[/QUOTE
Okay. ???

[haleysmom]

KaraJ- Are your kids in school?

[KaraJ]

The only parenting method I don't approve of is Non discipline. However, if mothers wish to practice that, that's cool with me. I'm not going to tell them their the worst mothers in the world.

[KaraJ]

No, they're not. Too young.

[KaraJ]

Plus, I plan to Home School.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Who has advocated non-discipline?

[Sunnie]

I think most (not all) children know the difference between their parents spanking them, and themselves hitting their sibling. I sure did. And my daughter does.
Tweet, I could prove my femininity, but why? I couldn't care less if you thought me a single man.


Ha! I once knew a toddler who hit another toddler because he took her cookie. Mom picked her up and smacked her the whole time saying "we don't hit!" The poor thing looked so confused. She was punishing the other little boy for taking her cookie just like her mommy would have punished her.

[KaraJ]

Who has advocated non-discipline?

Um, you. I can go back and read your posts again. I was under the (perhaps wrong) impression that you do not punish your children.

[KaraJ]

Ha! I once knew a toddler who hit another toddler because he took her cookie. Mom picked her up and smacked her the whole time saying "we don't hit!" The poor thing looked so confused. She was punishing the other little boy for taking her cookie just like her mommy would have punished her.

Confused at first, but they catch on pretty darn quick.

[Gigi]

Spanking is not discipline.

Discipline is training to act in accordance with rules.

Punishment is the consequence for breaking said rules.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Um, no. I've never advocated non-discipline.

Good reading skills, btw. You might want to brush up on that before homeschooling.

[xobehs]

Kara, I think it was pointed out earlier that punishment and discipline are not equal terms.

[Sunnie]

discipline and punishment are not synonymous. Discipline means to guide and teach which is exactly what Sasha does.

[KaraJ]

See, that's where we disagree. I see punishment and discipline as the same thing.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I see the sky and the ground as the same thing. Doesn't make it so.

[Sunnie]

Confused at first, but they catch on pretty darn quick.


Yeah, they figure out that mom and dad are hypocrites. "Do as a say and not as I do"

Did you know that spanking is illegal in much of Europe? I currently live in a nation where spanking is illegal.

[KaraJ]

So there, Sasha. I don't agree with your parenting skills, but there your kids. Raise them the way you think is best.
That's what I love about America. The freedom to raise your kid how you see fit.

[KaraJ]

Thank God I don't live in Europe!

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I'm lmao that a poster whose children are too young to go to school (but old enough to be hit with objects) knows all of the answers.

[Sunnie]

Thank God I don't live in Europe!


god forbid there's a place that actually values children.

[xobehs]

I'm lmao that a poster whose children are too young to go to school (but old enough to be hit with objects) knows all of the answers.
Makes me want to cry, and I am not kidding.

[KaraJ]

I see the sky and the ground as the same thing. Doesn't make it so.

Your a fine one to talk with your crazy definition of Pro-Life.

[KaraJ]

god forbid there's a place that actually values children.
It's called Land of the Free. Ever hear of America?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Yes, one to talk indeed. I'm someone who values the lives of living children, so much so that I would never dream of causing them harm.

[CatEyes]

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/funnymogey/funny_cat_pictures_063.jpg

[Sunnie]

It's called Land of the Free. Ever hear of America?


Vaguely. The reason I live in Europe is because my husband is a member of the US Military protecting your right to beat your kids' ass. *pukes*

[KaraJ]

. Yes, one to talk indeed. I'm someone who values the lives of living children, so much so that I would never dream of causing them harm.
So let me get this right. You would rather kill an unborn baby, than bring them into a world of pain and suffering? Correct me if I'm wrong. I want to get it right.

[xobehs]

I guess the chance of joining Sunnie for a playdate is out then.

[KaraJ]

Vaguely. The reason I live in Europe is because my husband is a member of the US Military protecting your right to beat your kids' ass. *pukes* I'll remember that if the military shows up on my doorstep.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I've not advocated killing anyone. I do firmly stand on the side of women's rights, though.

[xobehs]

Vaguely. The reason I live in Europe is because my husband is a member of the US Military protecting your right to beat your kids' ass. *pukes*

Oh no you didn't! Darned you, woman! The insurance office next to me probably thinks I have lost my mind I just howled so loudly.

[KaraJ]

How about Baby Rights? Oh, that's right. If you can't see their faces, it doesn't count.

[Bellaelle]

.
So let me get this right. You would rather kill an unborn baby, than bring them into a world of pain and suffering? Correct me if I'm wrong. I want to get it right.

I am very anti abortion and even I think this is a low blow. Sasha is not some crazy pro abortion person.

[KaraJ]

Love the Cateyes pic, btw.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

When a baby can live outside the womb I'm all for it having the rights that anyone else does.

Including the right to not be hit.

[xobehs]

So, you want protection from harm from when? Oh, wait, it is OK to harm them after they are born.
Alrighty.

[Sunnie]

Glad to amuse you Shebox. LMAO

[KaraJ]

I am very anti abortion and even I think this is a low blow. Sasha is not some crazy pro abortion person.
I was just remembering something she had mentioned a couple days ago. As it is, I admitted I couldn't remember it in it's exact words.

[Babyhellfire]

I think everything has been covered here.Add me to the belt is a weapon ,and abusive camp

[KaraJ]

Spanking doesn't "harm" if done the way it should. It shouldn't leave a mark.

[haleysmom]

Spanking doesn't "harm" if done the way it should. It shouldn't leave a mark.


Emotionally or physically?