Teens/children on meds, please help

[WalkingTittyBar]

My ds, who is almost 14, was diagnosed with OCD and ADHD last year. His counselor, and myself, also feel that he is somewhat depressed. We have been trying other ways to ease the disorders, saving meds as a last resort.

Well, I think we are at the end of the road here, and are ready to go the medicine route. Ds came to me tonight in tears over his OCD rituals and anxiety. And he seemed more depressed than I have seen him before. He said that some of his friends were mad at him yesterday because he was being so grouchy and didnt even want to be around them.

I have been trying to avoid medicine because I am so afraid of the side effects and risks. But I dont know what else to do. I am calling his counselor tomorrow to set up an appointment to discuss this with her.

Please tell me what your experience with having your child on medicine for something like this has been. What is the med? What are the side effects and risks? Did it help?

[Sunnie]

Ds is on meds for ADHD and it has made a world of difference. Like, huge. I was resistant for a long time as well but now I wish I could go back a year or so ago and start the meds then. It would have saved us all a lot of pain.

[JudyJudyJudy]

WTB, have you tried changing his diet--eliminating various food dyes, artificial flavorings, etc.?

[WalkingTittyBar]

Judy, we have made changes in our diets. I bought the Feingold program and have been shopping mostly according to it. I no longer buy much of anything with dyes, artificial flavor, preservatives, etc. We do still eat out though. A terrible habit to break. But we are eating much better than we used to.

I just dont know what else to do now. I know he is miserable with his habits. He has blisters on top of blisters on his fingers and toes where he snaps them constantly. I felt so bad for him tonight that now I am crying. I am very thankful that he felt comfortable enough to talk to me though.

His counselor had been working with him on breathing and relaxation techniques but that didnt really help at all.

I am really afraid of the risks of medication though. With his slight depression, I am afraid of the risk of suicide. And also the long term affects it will have on his body. Especially during puberty, when chemicals and hormones are changing, I worry that medication will mess his body up.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Unfortunately, for the Feingold program to work, you have to really stick with it. You can't cheat by eating out and such. (If you do eat out, you have to know what he's eating.) Kids who are super-sensitive can react for days. (Love_Monkey said that her son is like that.) I can tell huge differences with Jacob's behavior depending on how we've been eating.

Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would follow Feingold to the tee before resorting to meds. The risks of meds are real.

[lolabear]

have you looked into a mobile therapist or a behavioral specialist? They will come to your house and work with him on behavior changing techniques. This can really help along with meds also, or you could do it before meds.

People look badly on meds for kids, but sometimes it is a last resort and it can make all the difference and i have seen kids come into the psychiatrist office depressed and moody and even worse and seeing them after meds they are so much happier. If your Dr is honest with you they will tell you all the risks, and there really arent many. If they put them on stimulant meds they should get an EKG for a baseline read out in case there are any problems they cant say if its from the meds or not if they dont know how we was BEFORE the meds, but heart problems are extremely rare in any case but it is good to know a baseline. Also you should start out at the smallest dose and if it doesnt work, then move up, you dont want to be giving them a higher dose than they need. A good Dr will tell you this anyhow, and they will suggest starting out slow then come back in 2 weeks. There are ADHD meds that actually are supposed to help with mood, ask about strattera, its not a stimulant med and it is shown to help with depression also, which is nice so then youre not giving a bunch of meds and its time released. the medications work on neurotransmitters in the brain and have no effect on hormones in the body so will not hurt him at all during puberty.

[JudyJudyJudy]

If your Dr is honest with you they will tell you all the risks, and there really arent many.
How do you define "really aren't many"?

[Sputterduck]

What is the Feingold diet about? And can you do it without buying it?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sputter, you can do a lot of it without buying it.

http://www.feingold.org/pg-overview.html

[Sputterduck]

The graph on that page is sooo true.

[lolabear]

How do you define "really aren't many"?

depends on the med you are talking about but there are a few side effects meaning there could be things like upset stomach, headache, etc ... small things ... and even those are not very common. a majority of kids go on meds with no problems at all. of all of the kids we see it is very rare for any of them to come in with a complaint. the only thing i have ever really heard is that certain meds can make kids tired, but those are mostly anti-depressants or anti-psychotics in high doses

[JudyJudyJudy]

From my research, the side effects are more than you're saying and more common than you're saying.

[lolabear]

I am just going by what I see with my own eyes and hear from children's mouths where I work.

[Sputterduck]

"On Monday, the FDA followed its advisers' recommendation and issued a public health advisory putting doctors, patients, families and other caregivers on notice to be particularly vigilant for signs of worsening depression or suicidal thoughts at the beginning of anti-depressant therapy or whenever the dose is changed.

The drugs of concern are all newer-generation antidepressants: Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Lexapro, Luvox, Serzone and Wellbutrin. Most are known to affect the brain chemical serotonin.

British health authorities sounded the alarm last year, saying long-suppressed research suggests certain antidepressants might sometimes increase the risk of suicidal behavior in children and teenagers. Because only one drug, Prozac, has been proven to alleviate pediatric depression, Britain declared others -- drugs called SSRIs and their close relatives -- unsuitable for depressed youth."

http://biopsychiatry.com/antidepressants/fda-warning.html



lolabear, drugs in children should be used with the utmost precaution.

[lolabear]

I was NOT suggesting an SSRI i was suggesting an ADHD med that has shown to help with depression. I would not suggest those meds for children, maybe teens, MAYBE.

[Sputterduck]

Well, you said that the only thing you've ever really heard was kids being tired with anti-depressants and anti-psychotics and then mostly only in high doses.

[Sputterduck]

And, about anti-psychotics, they have huge side effects in adults. I can't imagine how they would affect children.

[lolabear]

yes we have some kids with severe behavioral probs that are on anti psychotics and the worst thing they report is being tired.

and yeah ITA they have horrible side effects, my sister is on them for major depression and she is all screwed up b/c of them and her Dr has changed her meds a million times. I think her Dr is a dumbass IMO tho

[Sputterduck]

yes we have some kids with severe behavioral probs that are on anti psychotics and the worst thing they report is being tired.

and yeah ITA they have horrible side effects, my sister is on them for major depression and she is all screwed up b/c of them and her Dr has changed her meds a million times. I think her Dr is a dumbass IMO tho


Yeah, my exH was on several different anti-psychotics at different times in our marriage. He didn't have any bad side effects, but of course I had to research them all, and man the possible side effects are scary and rather common. None of them ever worked for him anyway.

In the end, I decided that he is not crazy, he is just evil.

[lolabear]

there are some newer ones that arent supposed to be as bad as the older ones but theyre still not great. she has been on all types of them as well as anti depressants but he changes her meds so often he doesnt give anything a chance to work

lol crazy, evil, whats the difference sometimes?

[Sputterduck]

The difference is evil is a choice.

[lolabear]

from the wya my fiances ex wife acts it seems as though crazy is a choice as well, but she is more evil than crazy

[Sputterduck]

exH can turn it off at will. He can manipulate anyone he wants in whatever way he wants.

He did things that some crazy people do, but he did it because he wanted to, not because he couldn't help it.

Being the dutiful wife, I spent years dragging him from mental health professional to mental health professional. In the end, mental health was an excuse.

He is a freaking psychopath. Just like his mother.

[CatSoup]

Ds couldn't complete a sentence before meds. It was so nice to finally be able to have a conversation with him. Looking back at his frustration at trying to communicate,along with his inability to control his body,it seems almost abusive to have not had him on meds. He takes ritilin and has had no side effects.

[Sputterduck]

Ds couldn't complete a sentence before meds. It was so nice to finally be able to have a conversation with him. Looking back at his frustration at trying to communicate,along with his inability to control his body,it seems almost abusive to have not had him on meds. He takes ritilin and has had no side effects.


I'm glad he had a good outcome. :)

[CatSoup]

I'm glad he had a good outcome. :)

:)

I was like sunnie. I was pretty opposed to trying them for a long time.

[lolabear]

most people are opposed b/c there is so much negative focused on instead of how it turns out when things go well. you never hear on the news "abi started ADHD meds and it worked wonders for her!" you only hear when something bad happens, at least our news here is like that. very depressing all the time.

[JudyJudyJudy]

there are some newer ones that arent supposed to be as bad as the older ones but theyre still not great.
Yeah, right now. Studies in a few years or so will show otherwise. Throughout the years my mother has been on numerous "safe" drugs that were later shown to be unsafe, and in some cases, have been pulled off the market. The major physical health problems she has now (blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, etc.) have been attributed to her medications.

[JudyJudyJudy]

most people are opposed b/c there is so much negative focused on instead of how it turns out when things go well. you never hear on the news "abi started ADHD meds and it worked wonders for her!" you only hear when something bad happens, at least our news here is like that. very depressing all the time.
Since I'm in the education field and took a course on ADHD less than a year ago to renew my teacher certification, I have indeed heard both sides. My issue in this thread is your claim that there aren't many side effects of the meds. There are indeed many side effects of the meds, including death.

[Sputterduck]

Yeah, right now. Studies in a few years or so will show otherwise. Throughout the years my mother has been on numerous "safe" drugs that were later shown to be unsafe, and in some cases, have been pulled off the market. The major physical health problems she has now (blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, etc.) have been attributed to her medications.


:(

[lolabear]

there are more meds than psychotropic meds that are unsafe but people take them willingly. all medicines have side effects, including OTC. in my expereince seeing kids every day for med checks is they are happier kids now and for the ones on strattera have no complaints. i have not seen every child in the united states nor did i claim to. i simply stated my experience. taking a class on adhd and working with a psychiatrist are different experiences. i heard one study say that pototoe chips can cause cancer. i bet you let your kids eat chips.

[JudyJudyJudy]

there are more meds than psychotropic meds that are unsafe but people take them willingly. all medicines have side effects, including OTC. in my expereince seeing kids every day for med checks is they are happier kids now and for the ones on strattera have no complaints. i have not seen every child in the united states nor did i claim to. i simply stated my experience. taking a class on adhd and working with a psychiatrist are different experiences. i heard one study say that pototoe chips can cause cancer. i bet you let your kids eat chips.
Not all "people" take meds willingly. My family and I avoid meds as much as we can. I take thyroid meds only because I can't figure out a way to get by without them. I absolutely don't take acetominophen, and I rarely take ibuprofen.

It is laughable that you think that as a teacher, I didn't work with kids on meds. Sadly, in one of my classes, over half of my students were on meds. Something is wrong with that picture.

I had one student who was truly a zombie while on meds. I had other students whose parents had great concerns because their kids had quit growing (a known side effect of such meds). I had other students who told me that they hated the way meds made them feel, and one even admitted that she pretended to her mother that she was taking them when she really wasn't. My great-nephew was on meds, and when he spent the weekend with my sister, he begged her not to make him take the meds because of the way they made him feel.

As for chips, my son very rarely eats them. It's certainly not on my typical shopping list.

[Sputterduck]

Junk food in general contributes to a person's risk of cancer.

Certain additives in potato chips are linked to cancer.

I don't think my son has ever had a potato chip. He has had other chips, though, and only on very rare occasions. I literally never buy chips, except for Terra chips. Those are really yummy. Healthy too!

"Ingredients: a seasonal mix of root vegetables (sweet potato, parsnip, batata, taro, yuca), canola oil and/or safflower oil and/or sunflower oil, beet juice concentrate (for color), salt."

Yum.
http://www.terrachips.com/products/Original-TERRA-Chips.php

[WalkingTittyBar]

Yeah, right now. Studies in a few years or so will show otherwise. Throughout the years my mother has been on numerous "safe" drugs that were later shown to be unsafe, and in some cases, have been pulled off the market. The major physical health problems she has now (blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, etc.) have been attributed to her medications.


I am so sorry to hear that about your mother. What you have pointed out here is my exact worry. They deem these drugs safe and then find out the long term effects later. Scares me to death.

I think ds' problem is his OCD and anxiety more than anything. He is not a hyper child by any means, he just cant concentrate because he is constantly doing his habits.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Junk food in general contributes to a person's risk of cancer.

Certain additives in potato chips are linked to cancer.

I don't think my son has ever had a potato chip. He has had other chips, though, and only on very rare occasions. I literally never buy chips, except for Terra chips. Those are really yummy. Healthy too!

"Ingredients: a seasonal mix of root vegetables (sweet potato, parsnip, batata, taro, yuca), canola oil and/or safflower oil and/or sunflower oil, beet juice concentrate (for color), salt."

Yum.
http://www.terrachips.com/products/Original-TERRA-Chips.php
You don't want to hear this, but the Terra chips are likely to have issues as well. The issue isn't just with potato chips. The problem is that acrylamide, a carcinogen, forms when starchy foods are cooked at high temperatures.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I am so sorry to hear that about your mother. What you have pointed out here is my exact worry. They deem these drugs safe and then find out the long term effects later. Scares me to death.

I think ds' problem is his OCD and anxiety more than anything. He is not a hyper child by any means, he just cant concentrate because he is constantly doing his habits.
:hug:

[Sputterduck]

You don't want to hear this, but the Terra chips are likely to have issues as well. The issue isn't just with potato chips. The problem is that acrylamide, a carcinogen, forms when starchy foods are cooked at high temperatures.


I think they are baked. Does that help?

[Sputterduck]

I think they are baked. Does that help?


Apparently not! http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/acrydata.html

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think they are baked. Does that help?
From what I've read, no. Boiled doesn't seem to have the same effect, though.

Here is a chart that shows products and how much acrylamide they have in them.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/acrydata.html#u1004

According to this, the FDA has said that 12 micrograms per day is an acceptable amount of consumption per day, but some people think that level is too high.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/acryjaco.html

Acrylamide is also well-recognized as a neurotoxin, and the amounts of acrylamide that we are consuming in foods may be significant. Last June the FDA "determined that the acceptable daily intake of acrylamide with respect to neurotoxicity to be 12 micrograms per person per day..." Considering the paucity of research that could identify a true no-effect level, the ADI of 12 micrograms per day may be overly generous. Nevertheless, the average American appears to be consuming several times that much in french fries, potato chips, and other foods. Heavy consumers of such foods may be getting ten times as much acrylamide as the FDA's acceptable daily intake.


This chart gives you an idea of how much that is:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/acryjaco/sld001.html

[Sputterduck]

You might just send me into a raw foods diet, Judy. :p

[Sputterduck]

I assume a slow cooker counts as boiling? slow low temp boiling?

[JudyJudyJudy]

I was slow with my response, lol. I'm trying to watch TV at the same time, and I was trying to make sure that I knew how to convert ppb to micrograms. :o

I swear if I were not married to dh, I could eat so much more healthily and would eat more raw foods.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I assume a slow cooker counts as boiling? slow low temp boiling?
I would think so.

[Sputterduck]

I was slow with my response, lol. I'm trying to watch TV at the same time, and I was trying to make sure that I knew how to convert ppb to micrograms. :o

I swear if I were not married to dh, I could eat so much more healthily and would eat more raw foods.


It's hard when the person you are with doesn't want to eat the way you do.

The first time exSO opened my fridge he said "Your fridge looks like a health food store!"

Unfortunately he eats nothing but fast food and that took our diet quality down a lot. I *tried* with him. He would say that he didn't care if what I served him was healthy as long as it tasted good. Tasting good to him meant it tastes like fast food. I'm sorry, but you can't cook healthy stuff that tastes like it's full of sugar and salt. It can taste great, but not like fast food. :(

[EmmaGirlsMilk]

I am so sorry your ds is having to go through this. Ds just recently got a diagnosis of severe OCD and depression(potentially leading to suicide because of his obsessions) and started him on meds last week.

We had him evaluated by three therapists and they all said he needed meds and cbt(cognitive behavioral tharapy). Dh and I were resistant to meds at first but had an unfortunate turn of events that caused us to reconsider. Ds desperately wants to make his ocd go away.

The Dr. wouldn't prescribe an anti-depressant to ds because of his suicidal thoughts. She said it would cause his thoughts to worsen and he may take action. He started Abilify, an anti-psychotic, last week and he didn't react well. He became very angry and physically violent, both of which he had never had a history of before. They said the med was working. He normally would get down on himself when others upset him. The Abilify made him actually feel the right anger, towards who was at fault not at himself, he just took it to the extreme. He was even more miserable on Abilify than when he was off.

We decided to take him off the Abilify, since it was causing such extreme changes, and switch him to Risperdal. She is hoping the Risperdal will not take his compulsions to such extremes. Once he has been on the Risperdal for a month he will start Lexapro (sp) and wean of the Risperdal over 2 weeks. His Dr. says she has had great results treating OCD with Lexapro.

We are choosing to do intense CBT with meds for 6 months to a year and then will reevaluate. Initially we wanted to treat his OCD with therapy alone. Dh and I were adamantly against medication for ds. So far I haven't seen positive results but am hopeful for the future. We are working very closely with a great team of Drs. Ds is in tharapy 3x a week.

I wish I had more advice or personal experience to share with you. We are very new to this and it has been a very trying time for our family. The decision to medicate went against everything dh and I believed in and had read. Unfortunately, situations change and sometimes you have to step back from what you think you know and be open to other options. At this time medication seems the only way to help our child.

I wish you and your family peace with whatever you decide to do. Good luck.