Who won the VP debate? (poll)

[The_Market]

Who do you think won the VP debate tonight?

And were there any surprises, for you?

[The_Market]

I said Biden, but I admit some bias.

I was surprised at how well Palin did, though.

[colleen0419]

Who do you think won the VP debate tonight?

And were there any surprises, for you?


Draw. Both had good points.
I was surprised that Palin didn't sound like a total idiot. I was also pleasantly surprised that they focused on the issues and didn't get too nasty.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Palin did better than I expected, but that didn't take a lot. She obviously avoided some of the important questions. While that bugged me and made me say that she did poorly in the actual debate, it probably served her well. It was safer for her to avoid the questions than to try to answer them and have a repeat of the Katie Couric interview.

I was impressed with Biden. He not only was knowledgeable but even refrained from raking Palin over the coals when he could have. I will feel secure with him as vice-president and, even though I don't want to think about it, as president if necessary.

[GirlsMama]

She did better than I expected, after seeing the second Couric interview with McCain sitting there, presumably to make sure she said what she should , she looked less confident (during the interview with McCain), so tonight I was surprised to see she looked more confident, as well as a little more humbled... I think Biden did better though, he's clearly more seasoned at this kind of speaking, and he seemed very knowledgeable. Also, unlike McCain's smiles during Obama's speaking, Biden's smiles seemed friendlier.

I didn't like the way Palin spoke with poor grammar, I also was annoyed for a while, unreasonably so, when her eye lashes were moving her bangs. Lol. But she did do better than I've seen so far.

I still hope she and McCain get smoked.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I didn't like the way Palin spoke with poor grammar,
Nor did I. That bugged the shit out of me. I don't want to hear my vice-president "talk like I do" on national television. I always worked hard in my classroom to speak correctly.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I was surprised by how annoying I found Sarah Palin. When she would wink I'd just want to kick her.

[Sadalsuud]

I didn't like the way Palin spoke with poor grammar, I also was annoyed for a while, unreasonably so, when her eye lashes were moving her bangs. Lol.

This bugged the hell out of dh, he kept yelling at her to move her hair out of her eyes.

I was annoyed with how she kept winking at the camera. I don't know, she just doesn't seem very professional. She did do way better than she did in the Couric interview, so I will give her that much.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I didn't see the Couric interview. I've only seen the snippets that have been shown on Olbermann's show and what Jon Stewart has snarked about.

I do dislike the way she articulates her words. "Goin'" instead of "going"? I half expected her to say "prolly".

I think Joe Biden is a bit of a silver fox. But I'm a sucker for older, intelligent men.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I didn't see the Couric interview. I've only seen the snippets that have been shown on Olbermann's show and what Jon Stewart has snarked about.
You can watch it online--at least the first half of it. That will be enough anyway.


I do dislike the way she articulates her words. "Goin'" instead of "going"? I half expected her to say "prolly".
It was sickening, yet I think it is intentional.


I think Joe Biden is a bit of a silver fox. But I'm a sucker for older, intelligent men.
Oh, yeah! I totally agree!

[QuiltyConscience]

That was kinda fun to watch. Both made some good points, and did well, i thought.



But please for the love of God, Sarah, say NEW CLEER. New CLEER !!!

[QuiltyConscience]

I do think Palins colloquial speech is intentional. I told DH while we watched, "You know, I think she has people telling her not to do stuff like that, but I don't think she listens."

[QuiltyConscience]

lol, Judy, love the title!!

[dalurker]

It felt to me like she was reading from cheat sheets. Instead of answering questions, she seemed to draw from corresponding notes. "Ah, ok, let's see... foreign policy-- here it is!" and then into her canned "answer." It felt very disingenuous.

[JudyJudyJudy]

lol, Judy, love the title!!
:D

[JudyJudyJudy]

It felt to me like she was reading from cheat sheets. Instead of answering questions, she seemed to draw from corresponding notes. "Ah, ok, let's see... foreign policy-- here it is!" and then into her canned "answer." It felt very disingenuous.
Yep.

[cream_city]

I was really unhappy with the way Biden didn't look at the camera at the beginning -- I thought it hurt him, compared with the way Palin looked right at the camera.

I voted that I thought Palin won, though I loathe her and really like Biden in general.

After the interviews, I was shocked at how well she did.

[Trollarious]

I didn't see a winner or loser, I thought they both did a great job. I was most surprised with Biden. After reading what an arrogant, pontificating blow hard he can be, that's what I was expecting. He was nothing like that at all. He came off to me as very knowledgeable, friendly, kind and humble. Very likable.

I expected Palin to be very well coached and she was. Obviously nervous but she did a great job. In the end it seemed to be a wise old veteran against a well rehearsed newcomer.

Which one is qualified to step into the Oval office on a moments notice was obvious to me.

[xobehs]

Biden.
Palin did better than I expected her to, but certainly made me cringe a few times. I just cannot stand her way of speaking, omitting g's at the end of words etc. The Joe Six Pack thing was pretty bad too. She sounded a bit scripted, but much more prepared than any other engagement she has spoken for to date.

[still_me]

I said both because they both stepped up to the plate.

I do think that Biden showed he knows what he is talking about. Palin kept repeating the same crap about the troops not being supported by Obama and he kept slinging it back to her that McCain didn't either. I thought him repeating points was good because that does help things stick in people's minds.

Palin held her own but her constant talk about energy and Alaska killed me. It also drove me NUTS that she kept saying not to refer to the past. Well, excuse me, but the same President is still in that caused all of this crap, soldiers died, homes were lost, students left behind, and jobs are gone. How in the world does she think that people won't look back? Their loved ones and former lives are there. People need to learn from the past and keep that fresh in their minds when voting this time around.

I like how Biden obviously knew his stuff without looking or without pause. Palin seemed so coached it felt like I was watching a prettier version of Bush in the beginning. KWIM? Bush used to look at his notes like crazy and give that good ole boy smile when he was going to avoid answering something that he didn't know. Palin did the same thing.

[Bohemian]

I totally agree Still Me, except I don't think it was a tie. I think all the things you mentioned gave Biden the edge and the win.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

It also drove me NUTS that she kept saying not to refer to the past. Well, excuse me, but the same President is still in that caused all of this crap, soldiers died, homes were lost, students left behind, and jobs are gone. How in the world does she think that people won't look back? Their loved ones and former lives are there. People need to learn from the past and keep that fresh in their minds when voting this time around.
.
oh, me too! especially considering her party's line last election was "remember 9/11". also, her party is the one that carps about personal responsibility. apparently that doesn't include those who are in office. you are responsible for your actions if you bought a bigger house than you can afford or if you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy. if you're an elected official in charge of running a country, we need to look ahead rather than take a closer look at how you failed.

if we don't learn from the past we're doomed to repeat it. but then that's what i think the mccain/palin ticket is all about. more of the same.

[Tweet]

Palin-yick. She sounded like she did SOME homework, but her delivery sucked, as usual. I find it to be sort of disrespectful to the whole VP position. People kept saying she actually didn't embarrass herself or the Republican party. Huh?! At any rate, she is just simply not qualified by any stretch of the imagination. Frankly, I tend to worry about the people that think she is because I don't see a shred of hope for her doing well as VP.Just.don't.see.it.

Biden did well, imo.

[Tweet]

She was also incredibly insensitive after Biden choked up.

[BeachMama]

I say Biden. Not because he did amazingly awesome, but because Palin was pretty awful. I'll admit that she did better than I expected, but she came across as unintelligent. I know she's playing the 'middle class' card, but she sounds rather uneducated at times. Not V.P. material, imo.

I will say, though, that she at least speaks better than our current president. That's really not saying much though, is it?

[BeachMama]

But please for the love of God, Sarah, say NEW CLEER. New CLEER !!!

First of all, how did she say it? Second of all, I don't say it like that. I say New-Clee-er. Three syllables.

[BeachMama]

Okay, I looked it up.

Nuke-you-ler


I think that is probably a pretty common way to mis pronounce it. I didn't even notice, to tell you the truth.

[xobehs]

Drill Baby, Drill!

[xobehs]

also, her party is the one that carps about personal responsibility. apparently that doesn't include those who are in office. you are responsible for your actions if you bought a bigger house than you can afford or if you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy. if you're an elected official in charge of running a country, we need to look ahead rather than take a closer look at how you failed.


I hadn't thought of this, what a valid point you have.

[xobehs]

Fact checking article from the debate
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check


By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer Fri Oct 3, 7:58 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Republican Sarah Palin criticized a version of a Barack Obama health care plan that doesn't exist and Democrat Joe Biden clung to a misleading charge about Republicans and big oil when the two clashed in the vice presidential debate Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT

Some examples of facts cast adrift in the debate:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

___

BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.

___

PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.

___

BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."

THE FACTS: That's not surprising — the money is meant to pay for health insurance. The Obama campaign tried to capitalize on the candidates' health care exchange by issuing an ad Friday contending that the Republicans can't explain "the McCain health tax."

___

PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."

THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.

___

BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."

THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.

___

PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.

___

BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."

THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

___

PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

___

PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."

BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes."

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others.

___

PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."

THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

[The_Market]

Palin did better than I expected, but that didn't take a lot. She obviously avoided some of the important questions. While that bugged me and made me say that she did poorly in the actual debate, it probably served her well. It was safer for her to avoid the questions than to try to answer them and have a repeat of the Katie Couric interview.

I was impressed with Biden. He not only was knowledgeable but even refrained from raking Palin over the coals when he could have. I will feel secure with him as vice-president and, even though I don't want to think about it, as president if necessary.

Which apparently is exactly the best for each of them to play it. Have you seen this article?
What It's Like To Debate Sarah Palin (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html)

[The_Market]

It also drove me NUTS that she kept saying not to refer to the past. Well, excuse me, but the same President is still in that caused all of this crap, soldiers died, homes were lost, students left behind, and jobs are gone. How in the world does she think that people won't look back? Their loved ones and former lives are there. People need to learn from the past and keep that fresh in their minds when voting this time around.

While I actually would like to hear less of attacking the current administration and more talk of the future, I loved with Biden said, "The past is a prologue." I realize this likely flew over most of the country's heads, but it's a terrific quote, to a dork like me.

[xobehs]

... I realize this likely flew over most of the country's heads...
like Joe Six Pack's?

[irisheyes81]

I have not heard either of them speak before, so this was new for me. Something about her really makes me irritated, though...it could be that her attitude reminds me of my dad's gf (who is one of my least favorite people). I think most of all it was that smart ass smile she kept making while Biden was talking. I did like that while she said she was joking about not knowing what the VP does...he admitted that he did not want to be VP until Obama talked him into it...shows character on his part.

[CatSoup]

We needed a party poll.

[Tweet]

While I actually would like to hear less of attacking the current administration and more talk of the future, I loved with Biden said, "The past is a prologue." I realize this likely flew over most of the country's heads, but it's a terrific quote, to a dork like me.


Why- do you think because they don't know what prologue is?:confused: That would be seriously scary..then again..look who got voted into office after a disastrous 4 years. Ne'er mind.

[The_Market]

Yeah, I think the average American could not readily recall what a prologue is. I'm pretty sure it would've flown right past everyone. Since it was the only example of such talk, I don't think it was detrimental to Biden's personability, but I doubt most people would really appreciate what he said. Regardless, I love that line.

[Nipple_nectar]

I am picking Biden.

[Monkeytoes]

Draw

[JudyJudyJudy]

She was also incredibly insensitive after Biden choked up.
I pointed that out to dh.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Which apparently is exactly the best for each of them to play it. Have you seen this article?
What It's Like To Debate Sarah Palin (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html)
Very interesting.

[Bohemian]

That article calls her the Master of Nonanswer. Ha! That is what I thought that last night when she kept speaking in circles and generalities. I told dh she reminds of me Mike Brady off of the Brady Bunch!

[JudyJudyJudy]

Moderator: "So do you agree with what he just said?"

Palin: "Well, umm, no, but let's get back to energy."

[KaraJ]

Palin: "Well, umm, no, but let's get back to energy." That BUGGED me. I love Palin, but it drove me nuts how she wouldn't stay on topic.

However, I think Biden is a coward (loved how Palin told him off for waving the "white flag of surrender). He'll say anything to make people happy.
I'll be fair and say that most politicians do.

I found some interesting so called facts about Biden. I don't know about the authenticity of them all, but it's quite a bit.

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

[Bohemian]

Palin is a puppet and a liar.

Here are 18 debate facts about Ms. Palin:

SARAH PALIN’S 18 LIES TONIGHT

1. FANNIE MAE/FREDDIE MAC: Palin said “it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures,” but fact checkers say that’s “Quite A Stretch” And “Barely True,” and that McCain was a “latecomer” to the discussion.

2. FUNDAMENTALS ARE STRONG: Palin tried to say “John McCain saying our economy was strong” but McCain has used the phrase “The Fundamentals Of The Economy Are Strong” At Least 16 Times This Year.

3. PARTISAN POLITICS: Palin said McCain is “known for putting partisan politics aside to just get the job done,” but he has voted with Bush 90% of the time in the Senate and bragged about his support for Bush on important issues.

4. TAXES ATTACK: Palin repeated the attack that Obama voted for higher taxes 94 times, which the New York Times says is “false,” CNN says is “Misleading,” and FactCheck.org says is “inflated.”

5. TOBACCO REGULATION: Palin said to “look at the tobacco industry” as an example of McCain pushing for even harder and tougher regulations. But McCain opposed expanding the SCHIP children’s health insurance program for 5.8 million children because it would increase tobacco taxes.

6. SPENDING INCREASES: Palin said Obama is is proposing “nearly a trillion dollars in new spending,” but didn’t mention that he has also proposed cuts to balance it out, an attack CNN has already debunked as “misleading” and that ignores the far larger cost of McCain’s tax cuts and spending hikes.

7. HEALTH CARE: Palin claimed Obama’s health plan is “government run” which has been widely debunked as a “canard.”

8. HEALTH CARE. Palin says taxes wouldn’t go up under the McCain health care plan, a fact even his own campaign has acknowledged isn’t true.

9. TROOPS: Palin repeated what the AP called the “highly misleading” attack that Obama opposed funding for the troops, and Factcheck.org notes that the same methodology would lead to the same conclusion for McCain.

10. GLOBAL WARMING: Palin said “I don’t want to argue about the causes” for global warming, when she has clearly taken the position that she doesn’t not believe it is man-made.

11. MCCAIN IS CONSISTENT: Palin said McCain” doesn't tell one thing to one group and then turns around and tells something else to another group,” when that is exactly what he has done on immigration, telling Hispanic leaders he was for comprehensive reform instead of the enforcement focused approach he has taken with conservatives.

12. MCCLELLAN NOT MCKIERNAN: Palin referred to the US commander in Afghanistan, David McKiernan as “McClellan.”

13. MCKIERNAN ON “SURGE:” Palin said that did not say a surge wouldn’t work in Afghanistan, when just yesterday he said “The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ’surge,’ ” McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution

14. KILLING CIVILIANS. Palin said “Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air raiding villages and killing civilians and such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment again hurts our cause. That's not what we are doing there.” Unfortunately, the Associated Press says that Obama was right in discussing a critically important point about avoiding civilian casualties.

15. TEACHING: Palin said we need to make sure “that education in either one of our agendas, I think, absolute top of the line,” when McCain has repeatedly favored tax cuts for the wealthy over funds for more teachers and class size reduction.

16. PARTISAN APPOINTMENTS: Palin said “You do what I did as governor. And you appoint people regardless of party affiliation. Democrats, independents, Republicans, you walk the walk, don't just talk the talk” when she repeatedly appointed friends and supporters to positions for which they weren’t qualified.

17. FOCUS ON CLIMATE CHANGE: Palin falsely claimed that she was the first governor to form a climate change subcabinet, when at least 28 states had already taken action.

18. DARFUR DIVESTMENT: Palin claimed that “when I and others” found out that the state had money invested in Sudan that “we called for divestment,” when the reality is that Palin’s appointees worked to kill a Darfur divestment plan.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Kara, what's your source? I find it difficult to take anyone seriously who doesn't know the difference between its and it's.

that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

[KaraJ]

Palin is a puppet and a liar. Fair enough.

[xobehs]

In fairness, Boho, what is your source?

[JudyJudyJudy]

This site seems to be unbiased:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

[Bohemian]

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

Looks to be false:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html

[KaraJ]

I'll admit I got mine off a conservative site, but really, Dems aren't going to throw dirt on their potential VP.
In fairness as well, the Republicans are the same way about Palin.
AHHHHHHH! It drives me nuts? Where to find unbiased, REAL unbiased sources?!?!!?

[KaraJ]

I'll check that one out, Judy.
Also, I like http://ontheissues.org

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'll admit I got mine off a conservative site, but really, Dems aren't going to throw dirt on their potential VP.
In fairness as well, the Republicans are the same way about Palin.
AHHHHHHH! It drives me nuts? Where to find unbiased, REAL unbiased sources?!?!!?
Check out the link I posted:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

[xobehs]

I'll admit I got mine off a conservative site, but really, Dems aren't going to throw dirt on their potential VP.
In fairness as well, the Republicans are the same way about Palin.
AHHHHHHH! It drives me nuts? Where to find unbiased, REAL unbiased sources?!?!!?
Try reading the darned threads!

[JudyJudyJudy]

We posted at the same time. :p (eta: to Kara)

[Bohemian]

In fairness, Boho, what is your source?


I googled Palin debate lies and it was one of the first pages that came up. (I think it was a news blog) My point in doing that though is to show Kara that BOTH sides lie and it's easy enough to come up with something simliar to what she posted.

Or I could and maybe should have just posted the factcheck.org like Judy did and it would have been simpler.:D

[xobehs]

*wink I know, love, I was just trying to show my diplomatic side. Does it make my ass look big?

[JudyJudyJudy]

*wink I know, love, I was just trying to show my diplomatic side. Does it make my ass look big?
Everybody wants a nice piece of ass. Who wants a nice piece of elephant?

[KaraJ]

I googled Palin debate lies and it was one of the first pages that came up. (I think it was a news blog) My point in doing that though is to show Kara that BOTH sides lie and it's easy enough to come up with something simliar to what she posted Oh, I agree with this. I admitted earlier I didn't know how true the "facts" about Biden were. I'm going to have to bookmark Fatcheck.

But seriously. How can anyone find Biden attractive? *shudders* The only guy uglier than him is McCain!

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think Biden is a nice-looking man for his age. McCain is creepy, though in his younger pictures, he was decent-looking as well (but still short, which doesn't appeal to me).

[Bohemian]

It looks good from here. ;)

eta: a few people posted and to clarify, I'm talking about Shebox's ass and not the elephant! :D

[KaraJ]

McCain is creepy, I think we can all agree on that. The grumpy guts has a hard time keeping his temper in check too.
So nutsy question, Judy, but do you think Romney's looks are acceptable? I think I'd be okay with having my husband look like that at 60.

[Bohemian]

I think when Biden smiles he looks nice otherwise his face looks like it's getting pulled down from all the wrinkles. Way better than McCain. He is downright repulsive to me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think we can all agree on that. The grumpy guts has a hard time keeping his temper in check too.
So nutsy question, Judy, but do you think Romney's looks are acceptable? I think I'd be okay with having my husband look like that at 60.
Yeah, he's a nice-looking man.

[BeachMama]

McCain WAS good looking back in the day.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/John_McCain_interview_on_April_24,_1974.jpg/628px-John_McCain_interview_on_April_24,_1974.jpg

[KaraJ]

Nice looking dude! His hair looks a little strange to me, though. Like it's still white. :)
He must have had waay blonde hair.

[The_Market]

Oh, I agree with this. I admitted earlier I didn't know how true the "facts" about Biden were. I'm going to have to bookmark Fatcheck.

But seriously. How can anyone find Biden attractive? *shudders* The only guy uglier than him is McCain!
I'll admit to nursing a thriving crush on Biden. But he smiles just like my dh and I've always been a sucker for that disarming grin.

[KaraJ]

I'll admit to nursing a thriving crush on Biden. But he smiles just like my dh and I've always been a sucker for that disarming grin. Whoops. I hope I didn't offend you. It was unintentional if I did. The smile isn't too bad.

[Babyhellfire]

I have to admit I really do like Bidens smile.He is old and I am not the type to crush on old guy...but there is something very attractive about the way he smiles.

[Sadalsuud]

I agree, he has a genuine smile and I love that his whole face smiles, not just his mouth.

[benjamima2]

I was surprised by how annoying I found Sarah Palin. When she would wink I'd just want to kick her.

I felt the same way, she was on my last nerve, I also thought that she acted like a total bitch.