Sassy, I'm concerned that one of your "ask the LC" people is not actually an LC

[KerryS]

Based on the initials after her name, it does not appear that she is a board certified lactation consultant, otherwise she would have "IBCLC" after her name, which she does not. I actually have no idea what those initials after her name mean, but IBCLC is a universally used designation.

I bring this up partially because of (IMO) alarming and potentially dangerous advice she is giving that mothers should not allow their infants to comfort nurse.

Do you require that all the "ask the LC" volunteers be actual board certified lactation consultants?

ETA: It appears that you have two "ask the LC" volunteers who aren't lactation consultants. I think that from a liability perspective, this is a very bad idea.

If you're having a hard time finding people to fill your slots, I would be willing to commit to one shift a week.

[madelsmama]

I sent her a PM regarding concerns, too.

She also linked moms to an article to a couple of times (re: formula alternatives, which are basically almond and rice milk) is reckless advice as well. She apparently wrote the article.

[cc1003]

Kerry did you PM Sassy?

[Sputterduck]

almond and rice milk? yikes

[KerryS]

No, I never think to use the PM function. I will C&P this and send her a PM.

[madelsmama]

To be fair, she also mentions goat milk as an alternative in the article, which is also a crummy alternative to formula (on a regular basis).

[HammBugga]

oh this is bad bad bad Sassy. I know you chose to ignore concerns with the last LC that was giving bad advice but this advice could cause infant death and bf.com could be held liable. Please take this seriously.

This is the article (I found it on the LC forum) for anyone who wants to know what I am talking about.

http://www.breastfeedingwomen.citymax.com/articles/article/3961332/100066.htm

[Amy_G_]

should I go look or bury my head in the sand in the hopes that if I don't notice it won't give me heartache over the bad advice.

[Sputterduck]

The article written by the lady on the LC forum says she fed this

"ALMOND MILK

4 cups organic almonds
6 cups filtered water
cheesecloth

1. Soak almonds overnight.
2. Discard soaking liquid and in a blender, puree almonds with filtered water until smooth.
3. Strain through a cheesecloth. Squeeze cheesecloth to get as much liquid as possible.

OPTIONAL:Add 1 Tablespoon of brown rice syrup and mix well."

to her son for the first two weeks after birth. :confused:



Holy. Crap. This lady should not be giving advice.

[KerryS]

oh this is bad bad bad Sassy. I know you chose to ignore concerns with the last LC that was giving bad advice but this advice could cause infant death and bf.com could be held liable. Please take this seriously.

This is the article (I found it on the LC forum) for anyone who wants to know what I am talking about.

http://www.breastfeedingwomen.citymax.com/articles/article/3961332/100066.htm


Yes, this is very bad.

[xobehs]

sweet.

[jessiehannan]

OMG! That is awful. :(

[Amy_G_]

oh dear.

[KerryS]

Holy cow. She recommends those scary disembodied hands instead of comfort nursing your baby, as well as "almond milk" at bedtime to help a baby sleep longer.

THis woman is off her rocker.

[Sputterduck]

Oh no! The disembodied hands...

[Amy_G_]

She lists her training:
Professional Labor Assistant (Doula) Certified by A.L.A.C.E.,The association of Labor Assistants and Childbirth Educators.
Hypnochildbirth Educator Certified by the Tribeca Hypnosis & Healing institute of New York
The Art of Birthing Course Certification by the New York Open Center
Breastfeeding Consultant

there is nothing after the Breastfeeding Consultant.
It looks like she hung up her breastfeeding consultant shingle without any training except for what she might have gotten from the Doula or other training??

Sassy, you do understand that I could hang up a shingle and be a breastfeeding consultant? I have just enough knowledge about breastfeeding to handle most issues, but I have no training except years at bf.com. There is no regulation that would prohibit me from offering the service, as long as I didn't give medical advice.

We've lectured women for years to always look for the IBCLC after the name to try to weed thru those who have training and those who do not. And then bf.com goes and "hires" someone without those initials after the name???

[Amy_G_]

oh I get it.
the name of the forum was changed.
it says "Ask a Certified Lactation Consultant or other Birth Related Professional Live "

So if someone isn't a certified lacation consultant, they may be an "other birth related professional."
and they'd answer breastfeeding questions?

Maybe that lady knows her stuff about birth, and it should have only been birth questions on the forum today?? do we have that many women that would want to ask birth questions?? shouldn't they be TWO DIFFERENT FORUMS, with TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF PROFESSIONALS??

[EvilAmy]

Hey I think that hand thing is cool, then again I would see it as a cool sensory tool used in the right manner. Zoey had to have a hand on her tummy to sleep for awhile. Then again I just also used my corn bag to do the same thing that. I bought it from a kid at the school craft fair for $5.

[KatieLou]

I sent her a PM regarding concerns, too.

She also linked moms to an article to a couple of times (re: formula alternatives, which are basically almond and rice milk) is reckless advice as well. She apparently wrote the article.


:( Almond milk *shudders*

This is a allergy mom screaming NOOOO!

[Nipple_nectar]

should I go look or bury my head in the sand in the hopes that if I don't notice it won't give me heartache over the bad advice.

BURY! BURY! BURY! When your shovel hits me in the head, just move over will ya? I am hiding.

[lolabear]

i dont have kids with allergies and would still be afraid to give that to them!

[Tweet]

Good god. I hope this is dealt with very quickly.

[Amy_G_]

I'm trying to figure out how to hide thru this one but the sand keeps slipping away.

[Sassafras]

You don't have to worry. I will not be having Ana back. Sassy

[Amy_G_]

Can you make sure everyone who asked questions and got answers gets their answer reviewed by another LC for clarification and content check please?

[Babyblue]

it bothers me that there is constantly bad advice or just bad "lc"s giving advice on here.

ever single good thing I have ever learned about breastfeeding has been from experienced moms on these forums. redheadbychoice, kerrys and kholby are three that I can really remember getting good advice from.

honestly if we have another baby and I need help I will be asking these women, not some lc who may or may not even be accredited or know what she is doing.

[Amy_G_]

Kerry, who is the other LC that doesn't have IBCLC after her name?

[cc1003]

Thank you for taking care of this Sassy, it is greatly appreciated!

[Kassandra]

oh this is bad bad bad Sassy. I know you chose to ignore concerns with the last LC that was giving bad advice but this advice could cause infant death and bf.com could be held liable. Please take this seriously.

This is the article (I found it on the LC forum) for anyone who wants to know what I am talking about.

http://www.breastfeedingwomen.citymax.com/articles/article/3961332/100066.htm

The advice and grammar in this article is atrocious.

The WHO has a list of options on what to feed your infant if you cannot breastfeed and rice/almond/goat milk is not one of them.

[Sputterduck]

Thank you Sassy!

[Sputterduck]

The advice and grammar in this article is atrocious.

The WHO has a list of options on what to feed your infant if you cannot breastfeed and rice/almond/goat milk is not one of them.


She is from Spain. That's why her grammar is a little off.

[Amy_G_]

the only person on the schedule in the foreseeable future without IBCLC is
Dale Ho (Hones.) E. C. Ec, CCBE, LE
she's a Lactation Educator (LE) which I'm not sure, is that satisfactory credentials? where would she have gotten that "title"?

http://www.kellymom.com/lcdirectory/abbreviations.html

[HammBugga]

Thank you Sassy. I'm not sure how I feel about people who are not IBCLC's giving advice. I am leaning toward being ok with it as long as the advice is sound.

[pawprint]

My only real title is breastfeeding counselor and I know better than that.

[Amy_G_]

If we allow those without an IBCLC after their names, how will we verify that they know their stuff? Well in reality, even some with the IBCLC after their names don't always seem to know their stuff in the ask an LC forum. But since Sassy doesn't have any way to know if the advice is good or bad, how does Sassy choose who to offer advice in the forum?

I'd like to see SOME KIND of training behind the LC in the Ask an LC forum, don't you think that's a good idea?

[Sunnie]

oh fucking hell

[JenniferH]

You don't have to worry. I will not be having Ana back. Sassy
While I appreciate that you've taken care of this so quickly, what changes have you made to your interview/"Hiring" process (I have no idea if these people are paid or are volunteers) to prevent it from happening again?

Do your existing, known to be excellent, IBCLCs get involved in the process of checking credentials, asking some "How would you answer X?" type process? This could be done by phone or even by email.

Are questions from the session where bad advice was given deleted? I worry about not only the mom who got bad advice, but the other moms who may come and search on that forum and take the same advice in the next days or weeks or months.

[HammBugga]

Good point Jennifer. Other people do read those threads, they should be deleted.

[KerryS]

The IBCLCs who answer questions are volunteers.

There is no interview process that I'm aware of.

IMO, monitoring the answers by the regulars is probably the best, most effective method of quality control.

[Amy_G_]

Monitoring by members is pretty good for quality control, if Sassy pays attention to the comments and not just seeing it as complaining.

The starting point should be that they are a Board Certified Lactation Consultant, not just someone with Breastfeeding knowledge? LLL training, IBCLC, what else?

[KerryS]

The starting point should be that they are a Board Certified Lactation Consultant, not just someone with Breastfeeding knowledge? LLL training, IBCLC, what else?

What do you mean by the bold? Are you saying that you think LLL Leaders should also answer questions?

I'll wait for you to clarify before I pose my objections to that.

[Amy_G_]

Have only had half a cup of coffee this morning Kerry, so don't jump on my comments just yet. ;)
LLL leaders aren't supposed to advertise that they are LLL leaders, are they?
Their training is usually pretty good isn't it?

there's a Certified Breastfeeding Educator or Certified Lactation Educator title that is earned from where?

[KerryS]

LLL Leaders *may* identify themselves as such when providing breastfeeding support. However, once they do that in a particular venue, they are ALWAYS wearing the LLLL hat, and as such, can no longer participate freely on non-LLL sanctioned subjects. For that reason, most LLLLs choose to not identify themselves as Leaders.

IMO, training is as thorough or as cursory as the particular Leader Applicant chooses to make it.

IIRC, CAPPA has the trademark rights to the CLE designation, and I am TOTALLY not impressed with their training. It's pretty worthless, IMNSHO.

[Amy_G_]

I think bf.com should just stick with IBCLC's.
do you agree?
who is the other Ask an LC that doesn't have the IBCLC?

[KerryS]

Yes, I agree with you.

The other non-IBCLC's name was mentioned by you in this thread. Dale Ho.

[Amy_G_]

Dale Ho (Hones.) E. C. Ec, CCBE, LE ?

so what do her abbreviations mean?

[KerryS]

I don't know what E. C. Ec is, but CCBE and LE are Certified Childbirth Educator and Lactation Educator. If those are CAPPA-bestowed initials, then I'm not particularly impressed. She may be perfectly knowledgeable and well-educated on breastfeeding subjects, but generally speaking, I think it best if only board certified lactation consultants answer the "Ask the LC" questions.

[Amy_G_]

I Agree.
What do you think now that the title of the forum is
Ask an LC or other Birth related professional?

[KerryS]

I think it's odd and I'd have to wonder what the goal was for the forum in changing the title. Is the website hoping to expand the purpose of the forum to include questions about pregnancy/childbirth?

I think that if the forum is for breastfeeding questions only, it should be "ask the LC" only.

If the forum is going to be opened up to questions about pregnancy and childbirth, then I think that needs to be clearly delineated, and have specific times that are just about pregnancy and childbirth.

On that note, I've just committed to volunteering every Thursday afternoon, so I will be a regular fixture there at this point.

[Amy_G_]

good for you in helping to make sure the moms on the board get good advice in the ask an LC forum.

I think if the idea is to have birth professionals answering questions "live" then they should have their own forum for that, and have it scheduled at a different time of day or different days of the week to avoid confusion. I'm not sure there is enough interest in birth questions at a site devoted to breastfeeding. Most new moms don't find this site until after they deliver. but maybe that's the purpose, to advertise this site to pregnant moms?

[Amy_G_]

To go back to the original topic.
I think Ana's posts on the Ask an LC board should be deleted.
The posts don't let baby use you as a pacifier,
the alternative "milk" products instead of formula
are still there for other moms to become totally confused and get WRONG advice.

[Nipple_nectar]

To go back to the original topic.
I think Ana's posts on the Ask an LC board should be deleted.
The posts don't let baby use you as a pacifier,
the alternative "milk" products instead of formula
are still there for other moms to become totally confused and get WRONG advice.


ICAM!

[Amy_G_]

did you guys read Ana's reply on the general board?
http://www.breastfeeding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33303&page=3

[PrincessEmilysMommy]

Hey don't make fun of those hands! Many NICU's use them for babies who's parents have to work, or can't visit often.

I'm glad she's gone!

[Meredith]

Kerry, I want you to know how much I've valued your advice on breastfeeding over time here. I'm really glad you're helping out in the LC forum.

[KerryS]

Thanks, Meredith.

PEM - I see nothing wrong with the hands in that type of situation, when the parents cannot be there, even if they are creepy. In our NICU, they just used beanbag sacks.

[PrincessEmilysMommy]

I'm w/ Meredith. I've really appreciated your advice.

I understand about the hands. I just meant in general. Her usage wasn't something I would do.

[Meredith]

I think bf.com should just stick with IBCLC's.
do you agree?

As a breastfeeding mother, I would be okay with receiving advice from a breastfeeding professional other than an IBCLC, so long as I'm fully aware of their training and credentials and what they mean. I have found that, in general, the most sound and thorough advice comes from IBCLCs, IME, but I can see how it might be difficult to find enough willing to help out here.

Also, as we've seen in the past, some LCs give less than stellar advice, while I've received incredible support and assistance from doulas and LLL leaders. Like Kerry (I think) said, the community could check up on them to make sure they're giving sound advice.

Of course, I have no problem with the forum being limited to IBCLCs, too. I'm just giving my input as a breastfeeding mom, and one who struggled a lot in the past.

[Amy_G_]

I really don't like the fact that we don't know whether the advice is any good at the ask an Lc board unless we regulars go and read all the threads. If we get busy or go out of town, nobody notices if the advice is good or bad.

then when we find something that is bad advice, there is no easy way to deal with it. We can PM Sassy, but in the past that hasn't necessarily gotten us very far. and even worse, there is no easy way to fix the poor advice for the original poster--as many of the ask an LC posters are hit and run posters. A follow up PM with better advice is unnoticed, and often unread.

There should be some kind of screening or "title" or training to help ensure the quality of the advice given. and a specific way to "fix" trouble before it goes on for too long.

[Meredith]

Oh, I agree with you, Amy, but it appears that even with an IBCLC title and the training that comes with that, bad advice still leaks through. I do think that a screening program, maybe with some hypothetical breastfeeding questions, would be a good idea.