New and really struggling with my letdown!

[mand135]

Hiya im new here and struggling to feed my 8 week old son. Breastfeeding was going really well until around 3 weeks ago when a really forceful let down kicked in. He clicked and choked when he latched on, and was constantly wanting to feed. His weightgain slowed from 8oz per week, to 5 oz over 10 days. I assume he was getting too much foremilk and not much hind.

I`ve tried everything that has been suggested to me by health visitors and friends such as feeding him in various positions, leaning back, lying on my back, holding him upright etc. I`ve tried spraying into a cloth before reattaching him, expressing a little before he feeds, using a pinching or scissor grip behind my nipple but nothing seems to work. He still clicks and gulps air whenever i let down...even the subsequent gentle let downs where i`ll take him off and i`m not even leaking at all.
He won`t suck in between let downs and i end up having to knead my breast gently or compress after giving him a short rest to get him to suck and encourage another let down, when of course he clicks and gulps again even though the flow of milk is slow.
It seems that regardless of how fast the milk is coming he clicks and gulps.
I don`t think its an oversupply issue as i barely have enough to meet demand and have even (very grudgingly) resorted to a few ounces of formula to settle him after i`m all empty and he gets stressed.
I`ve started expressing a few feeds a day to bottlefeed, just to try and help him gain weight better, help to settle him and to try and reduce my stress levels as well as his, but i don`t want to bottlefeed at all really. I`ve ordered some nipple shields as i know some people recommend them, although i know many will debate about their use i really feel like i`m clutching at straws and going for the last resort options now.
I`m really determined i want to breastfeed but i`m really not enjoying the experience at all at the moment. Is this likely to get any better or is this how it is going to be until weaning??
Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.
Thankyou.

[Nipple_nectar]

Welcome to the boards! Congrats on your new baby and the decision to BF!

Honestly, if your baby is latching without the use of a shield, I would not introduce one at this point. There are other, more serious problems associated with their use.

You need to have the latch evaluated by a professional, can you see a lactation consultant? Your mention of a health visitor indicates you are not from the states, where are you located?

All your symptoms point to overactive letdown or too much milk: http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/toomuchmilk.html

Why do you think your baby needs a formula supplement? This quote from you, "I don`t think its an oversupply issue as i barely have enough to meet demand and have even (very grudgingly) resorted to a few ounces of formula to settle him after i`m all empty and he gets stressed." tells me your baby may have nipple confusion in addition to your other issues: www.breastfeeding.com/all_about/all_about_confusion.html

How are you feeding the supplement? If you are using an artificial nipple this could cause trouble, you want to use a BFing friendly feeding alternative: www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/alternative-feeding.html

I think if you could get baby to latch more effectively, you may eliminate the clicking: www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/clicking-when-nursing.html You can watch the good latch versus bad latch tutorial at www.drjacknewman.com for helpful hints.

If you do indeed have an oversupply issue, pumping and breast compression is not recommended. I would strongly recommend block feeding for OAL issues or forceful letdown: www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

[whitnessforhim]

Welcome!! Congrats on the new baby!

NN has some great links for you and I agree that it does sound like an OAL issue and an over supply issue. I would look into block feeding. Nursing on one side for two or three feedings in a row.

Remember though that pumping is not a good indication of your supply. How much you can pump only tells you how much you can pump.

I also recommend against introducing a bottle at this early stage. I spent 4mo. getting my daughter back to the breast after introducing a bottle too soon. Although it seems like a quick fix for the moment it can cause so much more trouble in the long run. Check out the link posted above on alternative feeding methods. If you do use a bottle, I've used the BreastFlow bottles by TheFirstYears and have had no problems switching from bottle to breast.

Hang in there momma!! The first few weeks are very tough weeks but if you can make it through this you won't regret it! We are here to help and encourage!

[mand135]

Thanks to you both, but i`m feeling now its time to admit defeat and give up. I`ve struggled for 4 weeks and i`m just exhausted. It took from 6am until 10.45 this morning to empty one breast as he just won`t suck. The thought of giving in is really upsetting me but as his weight gain slowed, and things are getting worse instead of better i don`t think it will be long before he starts losing, and feeling that my pure detemination isn`t being fairto my baby as he is always hungry.
Not having a good day.:(

[Nipple_nectar]

I'm sorry you had such a rough morning:( Please find a lactation consultant in your area to evaluate your baby's latch, it could be something really simple: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/bfhelp-find.html

Honestly, you are through the worst part! The first 6-8 weeks can be overwhelmingly exhausting and if you hang in there, you will get to the point where BFing is just smiles and seemingly effortless. Look at your baby, all those dimples and little rolls on his body were put there by your precious milk.

Your baby is always hungry because breast milk is the perfect food and easily digestible, so his tiny stomach empties fast and some days the hunger will be non~stop as he goes through a growth spurt www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/growth-spurt.html and he will want to nurse constantly to help production meet his needs.

Hang in there, nursin momma! Can you get someone to help you with other household duties, so you can rest when baby is resting? I promise, it will get better:)

[whitnessforhim]

I agree don't give up just yet momma!! Nursing is really, really hard for most moms in the beginning. What you are experiencing is not abnormal...almost every women on these boards has the same or simular story!!

8mo. ago I thought I'd have to give up completely on nursing because my DD wouldn't latch and I stopped responding to pumping...but for 4mo. I struggled and finally got her back to the breast!! Now she's almost 13mo. and I'm so glad I didn't give up. It will get easier momma, it will!!

Keep coming here for questions and support!

[mand135]

Thanks again. I`m in the UK so sadly none of the lactation consultants are available to me, but thanks for the links anyway.
I`m currently still expressing milk for him and breastfeeding 2-3 times a day, more for keeping him familiar with it and comfort than feeding because i still can`t get him to take enough milk directly from the breast to keep him going. I`m wondering if he may have some mild tongue tie. I asked the health visitor to look at his mouth at his 8 week check and she said he did seem a bit short of tongue and his frenulum was very close to the tip of his tongue, but the GP didn`t agree and said his mouth looked normal. When i offer him a clean finger to suck he can bring his tongue over his gum but it "snaps" back each time he sucks leaving him gumming my finger. I`ve read that the lower gum should never actually touch the nipple as the tongue should always cover it..but i don`t know how that would work with a finger being a different shape. If i remember rightly they should bring their tongue well out of their mouths to cup your finger/nipple etc?
He can push his bottom lip out with his tongue but can`t stick it out beyond his lips..is that right? I didn`t pay much attention to my older son`s mouth when he was a baby so i`m not sure whats normal.
I have a photo of his mouth and tongue when he is crying which i`d really like if someone can look and maybe tell me how it compares to other babies tongues, but i`m not sure if i`m allowed to post it here?
I really want to get to the bottom of this now, i can`t keep expressing because it`s so painful, and can`t breastfeed because we just can`t make it work and he`d soon start losing weight. My nearest breastfeeding support group is 40 miles away.:(

[Nipple_nectar]

You are completely allowed and encouraged to post any pics that may help us, help you:) Do you need help figuring it out?

Why is the pump hurting you? Expressing milk shouldn't hurt, nursin momma:(

I'm going to PM Kerry to keep an eye on this thread, she is our most educated and knowledgeable poster!

[mand135]

Thankyou Nectar..
Here are some pics of my boy crying. Obviously he`s pulling his tongue back a bit anyway but it may be helpful if someone has a look at their baby crying to see what they look like. Maybe i`m just clutching at straws with the tongue tie theory but its worth eliminating i feel. (His eczema/acne has really cleared up since the photos were taken!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/joshmand/DSCF3110.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/joshmand/DSCF3121.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/joshmand/DSCF3120.jpg

I told my health visitor on Friday that i`d given up and was going to bottlefeed...going to phone her on monday and tell her no way am i giving up that easily and beg for help or a referral to someone who can help me.
I`m not sure why expressing is hurting, i`m trying to boost my supply a bit because i`m dwindling a bit with the bad feeding so i`m expressing with a Medela Mini double pump every 3 hours. My nipples are feeling bruised and sore.
I lost heart last week, but thanks to supportive people like yourselves my determination has returned and i WILL breastfeed my baby!

[StaciMN]

Hugs!

[mand135]

Well i`ve been in touch with an LC in my area and she says she can come out and see us either today or tomorrow! Apparently she`s among the best around here and is also the local LC co-ordinator..if she can`t help me no one can. I`m still firmly of the opinion that my little one has a tongue tie, and actually hoping now for it to be confirmed as at least its an answer and something can be done. If it isn`t a tie then i think we`ve got serious problems!
I finally feel like something is moving in the right direction!