Oprah's weight gain

[bocarioja]

IMO, Oprah really over estimates her importance.

While I understand that struggles with weight are a serious concern for many people that seriosly affects quality of life, I simply can not feel sorry a person who has access to private chefs, the best food and health care, private trainers, modern fitness equiment, personal motivators, and whatever else money can buy.

Thoughts?

[married_bears]

Context please is she asking for our sympathy?

[rock__]

Is she asking for pity? I have no idea. I don't watch TV or follow anything to do with Oprah. But even with all she has, I can sympathize with her weight struggles. I don't sympathize with her support of fad diets, and other BS everytime she manages to lose the weight, but I know she struggled with her weight her whole life, and it's not an easy struggle, and to do so in the spotlight is probably a struggle in itself.

[rock__]

I'm going for a record use of the word struggle, as you can see, lol.

[haleysmom]

I'm going for a record use of the word struggle, as you can see, lol.


"lol9"

[bocarioja]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6423624

Sorry, I thought I posted a link.

IMO, I do think she's asking for sympathy. I also think she is publicing this struggle to try and sell more magazines.

Weight gain is something that so many people feel self loathing towards, and most do not the means as she does to get proper support. Hell, people struggle anymore just to see a doc in general.

[haleysmom]

IMO, Oprah really over estimates her importance.

While I understand that struggles with weight are a serious concern for many people that seriosly affects quality of life, I simply can not feel sorry a person who has access to private chefs, the best food and health care, private trainers, modern fitness equiment, personal motivators, and whatever else money can buy.

Thoughts?


Food is her addiction. No amount of money or personal chefs or ANYTHING will change that. She is struggling just like many others do.

If she were an alcoholic in her situation who could afford any Recovery Center/Psychiatrist/etc. and she still fell off the wagon, would you still have no sympathy?

[haleysmom]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6423624
.

I also think she is publicing this struggle to try and sell more magazines.

.


Do you really think Oprah needs to do stuff like that to sell magazines? I highly doubt it.

[married_bears]

I don't care how much "support" is in place until you are in a place where you are more uncomfortable in the state you are in, change will not happen. Last time I checked Oprah was still very human and with that there is vulnerability. Food may be her coping mechanism. We all have some sort of crutch it is sad to me that you belittle her struggle.

[Bohemian]

I saw something on the Today show but just caught the end of it. I hadn't realized she was asking for sympathy. I thought it was more about being in the spotlight and having it scrutinized again. I know that it's been hard for her to have every little bit of weight gain and loss publicized. People like her do choose to be in the public eye but I still have empathy for the tabloid frenzies they have to suffer.

I do get what you're saying though Boca. It's hard to understand her struggle with all the resources she has. I think though that when someone does have her resources and continues to struggle that there must be emotional issues that are causing the diet problems. I'm guessing no matter how much money you had, those would be much harder to fix. Much like a depressed person. They could have access to Dr's. meds, therapists, and all that but still struggle. If that makes sense.

[JustMoi]

Food is her addiction. No amount of money or personal chefs or ANYTHING will change that. She is struggling just like many others do.

If she were an alcoholic in her situation who could afford any Recovery Center/Psychiatrist/etc. and she still fell off the wagon, would you still have no sympathy?


I'd have LESS sympathy. People need a certain amount of food (i.e. nutrition) in order to survive. Nobody requires alcohol or illegal drugs in order to survive. So a food addiction to me is not the same thing as an alcohol or drug addiction.

Oprah has plenty of money for gym memberships, gym equipment, personal trainers, personal chefs, nutritious food, dietician advice, etc. No sympathy here.

[married_bears]

She is not asking for sympathy with the link I listened to she is being honest that she has a problem. So go ahead everyone kick her while she is down. Wonderful display of human kindness.

[haleysmom]

Oprah has plenty of money for gym memberships, gym equipment, personal trainers, personal chefs, nutritious food, dietician advice, etc. No sympathy here.


Wow.

What if she were anorexic/bulimic? Same thing? Her money is supposed to cure her?

[Tweet]

Well, the weight issue for her and millions of others I'd guess is that the problem is very deep seated. I know she struggles with child molestation so I'd imagine that when things like that crop up again, it doesn't matter if she has a chef and a personal trainer . She's still alone with her at the end of the day, kwim? I get it. Do I think she's more important than anyone else with those struggles? Nope. But I get it and can have empathy for her and others like her.

[Tweet]

And really, while money is great for access to things, it does not cure all. I know some very miserable, depressed wealthy people.

[bocarioja]

Food is her addiction. No amount of money or personal chefs or ANYTHING will change that. She is struggling just like many others do.

If she were an alcoholic in her situation who could afford any Recovery Center/Psychiatrist/etc. and she still fell off the wagon, would you still have no sympathy?


Obviously, its a case by case basis. It depends on the attitude of the addict. Ones that want help, sure... People who keep fighting to stay on the wagon even when they lapse- of course.

I'm not dogging self-improvement.

She will lose the weight again with help from a team of people, again. Very few have access to the kind of help she will get.

[bocarioja]

Wow.

What if she were anorexic/bulimic? Same thing? Her money is supposed to cure her?

When I was an active anorexic, I would have access to the kind of help I needed a lot sooner if I had money. I guarandamntee you that.

[JustMoi]

Wow.

What if she were anorexic/bulimic? Same thing? Her money is supposed to cure her?


Not at all. Anorexia/bulimia are eating disorders is related to body dysmorphic disorder where the person truly feels like they are fat. Food addiction is different. I have it myself. I know full well I'm a fatass. More nutrious food is often more expensive. If I could afford to eat better, I would. It would likely help with the weight loss. But I also eat for comfort at times and I know that too.

I have a hard time having sympathy for someone who knows how to lose the weight and can afford to do so.. and has DONE so before... and yet still complains about it.

[bocarioja]

And really, while money is great for access to things, it does not cure all. I know some very miserable, depressed wealthy people.

While money isn't a cure, it sure makes getting access to the right kind of help a lot easier.

[bocarioja]

I don't care how much "support" is in place until you are in a place where you are more uncomfortable in the state you are in, change will not happen. Last time I checked Oprah was still very human and with that there is vulnerability. Food may be her coping mechanism. We all have some sort of crutch it is sad to me that you belittle her struggle.

I'm not belittling the struggle with food. Re read my first post.

I believe that her access to top quality care gives her an advantage in this battle over food addiction that others do not have. Therefore it is absurd for her to compare herself to others battling addiction by saying "I'm like you..." She isn't.

[Kassandra]

Food is her addiction. No amount of money or personal chefs or ANYTHING will change that. She is struggling just like many others do.

If she were an alcoholic in her situation who could afford any Recovery Center/Psychiatrist/etc. and she still fell off the wagon, would you still have no sympathy?

Exactly.

No amount of wealth is going to get someone to eat better, in the right portions, and exercise if that's not something you *want* to do.

She's a beautiful woman whether she's 160 or 200 lbs. I hope she's able to get to a healthy place and if talking about it helps her, then more power to her.

[rock__]

But she is in a way. Yeah, she's got ungodly amounts of money and access to stuff that many of us only hear about in a fictional sense, but she is still at the end of the day only human.

I have more sympathy for people who don't have access to the things she has, but I don't feel like she is a completely different species either. We all have our weaknesses, and even the rich and powerful can have inner struggles, depression, and self destructive tendencies.

[Tweet]

While money isn't a cure, it sure makes getting access to the right kind of help a lot easier.


So she can't suffer because she has money to get the help she needs? I don't understand that, I'm sorry.

And I disagree that eating healthfully is more expensive, Justmoi. Where I shop, it's actually cheaper to get either frozen or fresh veggies rather than canned and of course it's WAY cheaper than junk food. I'm not talking organic, but just a healthier choice.

[Tweet]

And is it an addiction with her or is it masking very painful memories or both? Listen, I feel sympathy for ANY sexual abuse survivor, and it matters not to me if they're rich enough to have the very best therapy. I guess I just don't understand being irritated by it. There are lots of things that irritate me about her, but that's not one of them.

[JustMoi]

Here it's sure more expensive. When it comes to vegetables, canned are cheapest but the least healthy. The healthier cuts of meat are much more expensive. Same with fruit. Whole grain bread is more expensive than the white. See what I mean?

[Jacksmommy]

I like Oprah. I think her public struggle with her weight and her willingness to talk about it probably inspires a lot of people who struggle with weight issues. She loses the weight and then gains it back. It's a very human struggle. Still she keeps trying. I respect that.

[Tweet]

Well, I feel fortunate then. I go to the meat sale at Albertson's on Fridays and get a leaner cut. And if the fresh veggies are expensive, I get generic frozen because it least it still keeps the nutrients. I go to a bag your own grocery store for my regular groceries because it's far, far less expensive.

[Sputterduck]

I think it just proves that you are still human regardless of your income.

[bocarioja]

So she can't suffer because she has money to get the help she needs? I don't understand that, I'm sorry.

I'm not sure I understand that leap either. She is free to suffer as much as she wants. I just can't feel sorry for her latest weight gain.

And I disagree that eating healthfully is more expensive, Justmoi. Where I shop, it's actually cheaper to get either frozen or fresh veggies rather than canned and of course it's WAY cheaper than junk food. I'm not talking organic, but just a healthier choice.

Where I shop, a bag of apples is $3-4. A bag of chips, $1.99. Real juice (not with all the added sugar and imitation flavor) is $5-6 for a half gallon, pop is $.99 for a 2 liter. Fresh fish is twice as much as low quality ground beef. Eating healthy on a budget is tough. We do it.

[bocarioja]

And is it an addiction with her or is it masking very painful memories or both? Listen, I feel sympathy for ANY sexual abuse survivor, and it matters not to me if they're rich enough to have the very best therapy. I guess I just don't understand being irritated by it. There are lots of things that irritate me about her, but that's not one of them.

I agree with this. I am not irritated that she has the access to the therapy, I'm irritated that she parades as though she is just like every hurting, struggling person. We all have our demons and most of us only have very limited resources to fall back on.

Her pain may feel the same, but her support is *VERY* different.

[Tweet]

Ah, that's where we disagree then. I don't think she is any different at all when it comes that struggle. I do not think that having money for support makes her struggle any less than my struggle with say, my drug of choice back in the day. I really do believe that struggles of that variety put us all very much in the same boat..the human boat, lol. Money doesn't factor in much, imo because like I said, at the end of the day , we're all alone with our demons.

And for things like addictions, there are resources available to everyone. Not pricey rehab places, but NA,CA, OA, etc etc which are extremely valuable, imo . I've met some extremely wealthy people in those halls. They could afford a pricier treatment, sure, but they still grew just as well among the middle class and homeless. My only point with that is that sometimes the pricier resource isn't necessarily more important or *better*..it's just a different place.

[Tweet]

As an aside, what truly annoys me about Oprah sometimes is the way she can be really self congratulating about her good deeds. She does wonderful things, but sometimes it seems she toots her own horn a bit too much and it kind of leaves me with an "ew" feeling.

[RaisingThemLeft]

You don't need money to lose weight. I'm not seeing how that has anything to do with it. I know exactly what I need to eat or not eat in order to lose weight and who needs a gym membership when you have two good legs and a pair of running shoes? It's not about money, it's about being able to have the willpower to control what you put in your mouth. That is the hard part for me. You can't hire someone to be your willpower.

[RaisingThemLeft]

I agree with this. I am not irritated that she has the access to the therapy, I'm irritated that she parades as though she is just like every hurting, struggling person. We all have our demons and most of us only have very limited resources to fall back on.

Her pain may feel the same, but her support is *VERY* different.

I disagree. Not every problem is one that you can throw money at. I have been on WW before and if you follow it it works, but it's sometimes very difficult for me to follow through. I would imagine Oprah's support is pretty much the same. Yes, if she just ate the portions that her personal chef gave her, then she'd lose weight, but that's just as hard for her to do as it is for me to not go over my points for the day when all I can think about is having a bowl of ice cream. I'm not seeing where money really makes a difference. Same with pricey gym memberships and equipment. You actually have to go there/use it for it to work. I know plenty of people who don't. when I had the most sucess with losing weight, I was just running outside on the sidewalk, for free.

[RaisingThemLeft]

I also don't think she was trying to get sympathy. Reporters were in her face asking about the weight gain so much that she had to finally say *something*. Her pictures were in tabloids, all speculating about her weight gain. It isn't like she just announced it to the world out of the blue. Some people on this thread seem to have the attitude that rich people are less human than the rest of us. Sickening.

[bocarioja]

As an aside, what truly annoys me about Oprah sometimes is the way she can be really self congratulating about her good deeds. She does wonderful things, but sometimes it seems she toots her own horn a bit too much and it kind of leaves me with an "ew" feeling.

ITA with this.

If she didn't do charity and wasn't generous, she would be criticized for being selfish and no doubt lose popularity.

She has such a control over so much of the media... multiple networks, print, online... I can't think of anyone else who can open their mouths and have such a capitive audience. She can tout her good will in ways no one else can. Because she gives so much, it only seems to add to her success and make her even wealthier. She has helped a lot of people, but she has also taken a lot of air time to make us all aware of it. Hardly what I would call completely selfless giving.

I wish I had a TV show to devote to myself and brag about all the good I do in my non-profit workplace. Perhaps I would see a rise in donations and volunteers and then be able to do more good.

[bocarioja]

I disagree. Not every problem is one that you can throw money at. I have been on WW before and if you follow it it works, but it's sometimes very difficult for me to follow through. I would imagine Oprah's support is pretty much the same. Yes, if she just ate the portions that her personal chef gave her, then she'd lose weight, but that's just as hard for her to do as it is for me to not go over my points for the day when all I can think about is having a bowl of ice cream. I'm not seeing where money really makes a difference. Same with pricey gym memberships and equipment. You actually have to go there/use it for it to work. I know plenty of people who don't. when I had the most sucess with losing weight, I was just running outside on the sidewalk, for free.

If you could afford to hire a coach and trainer to help you work out, show up everyday and motivate you, someone to cook for you.. you wouldn't take advantage of that?

Sure, you made changes that were free, but you never think that maybe you'd have more success if you could afford a different approach? You could justify that bowl of ice cream because you know your trainer will help you burn a few extra calories...

Overcoming any addiction struggle is easier if you have a support network in addition to will power.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I have great sympathy for her due to her weight struggles. This is an example where being filthy rich still can't solve all of one's problems. Does Oprah have advantages over others without money when it comes to working on this? Absolutely. However, that still doesn't mean that those advantages are ultimately going to completely solve her problem. It's not that simple. There are so many issues other than just how much money one has that factor into obesity, not the least of which, in Oprah's case, is being hypothyroid.


Here it's sure more expensive. When it comes to vegetables, canned are cheapest but the least healthy. The healthier cuts of meat are much more expensive. Same with fruit. Whole grain bread is more expensive than the white. See what I mean?
I don't agree with anything else you've said in the thread, but I do agree with this. I'll add that eating healthily for me since I need a special diet would be very expensive.

[bocarioja]

Money won't solve her core problem, I agree with that.

But it can help her in so many ways that others can only dream of...

[JudyJudyJudy]

Money won't solve her core problem, I agree with that.

It can help her in so many ways that others can only dream of...
Of course, it can, but that doesn't mean that it can solve all of her problems. It simply can't, and, again, I can have sympathy for someone and the problems she has no matter how much how money the person has.

[bocarioja]

Thyroid issues are serious, as I am finding out.

I took a blood test yesterday to find out of my thyroid is causing abnormally heavy periods and fatigue. It cost us $125 out of pocket. So much for Dh's and my christmas gifts.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Thyroid issues are serious, as I am finding out.

I took a blood test yesterday to find out of my thyroid is causing abnormally heavy periods and fatigue. It cost us $125 out of pocket. So much for Dh's and my christmas gifts.
Exactly. Yes, money can make the tests and treatment an easier burden, but the money can't take away the problem. I'm fortunate that my hypothyroidism doesn't cause me to be fat. However, I have absolutely no energy, and I never feel well. On the other hand, my friend who is hypothyroid and overweight has plenty of energy and generally feels great. I think I'm getting the bad stuff related to hypothyroidsm in some areas, and she is getting the bad stuff in other areas.

I truly do believe that if I had plenty of money, I could afford to go to doctors or other practitioners who could help me to get healthier, and I could afford to get rid of the natural gas in my house (I'm allergic to it), which would help tremendously as well; but there are no guarantees that I'd ever be as healthy as others my age.

[Tweet]

I guess to me, it seems Oprah talks about her struggles with weight in hopes of letting other people know they aren't alone. I don't really get from her that she thinks she's special because of her issues.

[bocarioja]

Of course, it can, but that doesn't mean that it can solve all of her problems. It simply can't, and, again, I can have sympathy for someone and the problems she has no matter how much how money the person has.

I wish her success, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see anyone fail in their "battles" (favorite word of the thread).

I have sympathy, but I just can't sorry for her. If she were face to face with me saying what she had said to the media in the quotes that I have linked, I would no doubt have blurted out:

"You got famous by using your resources wisely... 40 lbs does not happen in a few weeks. This was a pattern of behavior. You knew you were putting on weight at 5, 10... 25.... you made the choice to keep going. Now use your resources and get healthy. You do a lot of good for a lot of people. Please don't pretend you're a 'normal' person. While the battle of wills is something we can all relate to, wealth is not."

[bocarioja]

Exactly. Yes, money can make the tests and treatment an easier burden....

That is all I am saying. In my eyes, that is a HUGE burden.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I have sympathy, but I just can't sorry for her. If she were face to face with me saying what she had said to the media in the quotes that I have linked, I would no doubt have blurted out:
Which comments? I read this:

"I'm mad at myself. ... I'm embarrassed," she wrote. "I can't believe after all these years, all the things I know how to do, I'm still talking about my weight. I look at my thinner self and think, 'How did I let this happen?'"

What exactly is wrong with her saying that? Did I miss something horrible that she said?


__________________________________________________ _____________

Please don't pretend you're a 'normal' person. While the battle of wills is something we can all relate to, wealth is not."
Again, though, money doesn't erase what all people face inside them. Even rich people are "normal" when it comes to struggles.

My overweight, hypothyroid friend very much sympathizes with Oprah. While she is nowhere near making the amount of money that Oprah makes, she still makes a hell of a lot and has no problems paying for doctors, personal trainers, etc. However, she said that the only way she can keep weight off is, like Oprah said, not to eat. Her metabolism is different from mine.

[bocarioja]

Which comments? I read this:


What exactly is wrong with her saying that? Did I miss something horrible that she said?

she also said this:

"I was so frustrated I started eating whatever I wanted – and that's never good."


Yes, I would stand my my statement.


__________________________________________________ _____________


Again, though, money doesn't erase what all people face inside them. Even rich people are "normal" when it comes to struggles.

My overweight, hypothyroid friend very much sympathizes with Oprah. While she is nowhere near making the amount of money that Oprah makes, she still makes a hell of a lot and has no problems paying for doctors, personal trainers, etc. However, she said that the only way she can keep weight off is, like Oprah said, not to eat. Her metabolism is different from mine.

I never said money erases problems. It just makes it easier to surround yourself with people who are professionally trained to help you achieve success.

ETA: While ultimate success rests on the shoulders of the individual, a qualified support group can not be underestimated.

[JudyJudyJudy]

she also said this:

"I was so frustrated I started eating whatever I wanted – and that's never good."

Yes, I would stand my my statement.
I guess I'm missing what's bad about that statement. :confused:


I never said money erases problems. It just makes it easier to surround yourself with people who are professionally trained to help you achieve success.
Easier, yes, but it doesn't guarantee that someone succeeds in overcoming problems. I can have compassion regardless. I'm sitting here trying to figure out how to pay to go to the chiro, and while it sucks, it doesn't change the fact that Oprah greatly struggles with her weight and that she likely always will.

[JudyJudyJudy]

ETA: While ultimate success rests on the shoulders of the individual, a qualified support group can not be underestimated.
But money, in discussions like this, can be overestimated.

[bocarioja]

I guess I'm missing what's bad about that statement. :confused:

Nothing is necessarily "bad" about the statement. She is accepting responsibility for her own actions. Nor do I think there was anything bad about what I would say to her.

I do think that she is seeking sympathy from people because of this "falling off the wagon" and there are many there to give it to her. I can't be 100% sympathetic for someone who

1. has been through this publically dozens of times
2. is educated on the consequenses of her actions
3. has access to dozens of experts at any moment to help her in any way she needs.
4. touts 'heathy living' shows with Doctors giving all sorts of advice while behind the scenes not living her own doctrine...

I want her to be successful, but, when will she "fall off the wagon" and ask for more sympathy all over again?


You are a much more generous person than I in your empathy.

[HammBugga]

Not at all. Anorexia/bulimia are eating disorders is related to body dysmorphic disorder where the person truly feels like they are fat. Food addiction is different. I have it myself. I know full well I'm a fatass. More nutrious food is often more expensive. If I could afford to eat better, I would. It would likely help with the weight loss. But I also eat for comfort at times and I know that too.

I have a hard time having sympathy for someone who knows how to lose the weight and can afford to do so.. and has DONE so before... and yet still complains about it.


Bold is mine. No, not really. When a person is obsessed with counting calories and fat and all of that, it goes hand and hand with an ED. They are two sides of the same coin.

And as far as your comments on feeling less sorry for a person with an ED- fuck you. ED's are the same as a drug or alcohol addiction. Whether YOU think it is or isn't is irrelevant. It is the same. It's a disease. A disease that kills people every single day. Get off your high horse.

[bocarioja]

But money, in discussions like this, can be overestimated.

The value of the right support group can not be over estimated.

[rock__]

Sometimes being rich gets in the way of having a good support group though. When you can buy anything you want, how many people are going to say no? The people you are givng money to? Not likely. You can pay people to do what you want, but you can't pay them to always keep your best interests at heart.

[JudyJudyJudy]

You are a much more generous person than I in your empathy.
Maybe, but it's probably because I have far too much experience with people with addictions and other disorders. You could have handed my brother $10 billion, and he still wouldn't have been able to quit drinking (he'd already gone through DTs twice), and he'd still be dead.

[HammBugga]

Nothing is necessarily "bad" about the statement. She is accepting responsibility for her own actions. Nor do I think there was anything bad about what I would say to her.

I do think that she is seeking sympathy from people because of this "falling off the wagon" and there are many there to give it to her. I can't be 100% sympathetic for someone who

1. has been through this publically dozens of times
2. is educated on the consequenses of her actions
3. has access to dozens of experts at any moment to help her in any way she needs.
4. touts 'heathy living' shows with Doctors giving all sorts of advice while behind the scenes not living her own doctrine...

I want her to be successful, but, when will she "fall off the wagon" and ask for more sympathy all over again?


You are a much more generous person than I in your empathy. Maybe because she understands addiction whereas you do not.

[JudyJudyJudy]

The value of the right support group can not be over estimated.
That's not the argument here. Many people have awesome support groups and still can't get through their problems.

[bocarioja]

Maybe because she understands addiction whereas you do not.

Really?

[HammBugga]

Really?


Yeah, really.

[bocarioja]

That's not the argument here. Many people have awesome support groups and still can't get through their problems.

Many have no support and are successful.

She has advantages, IMO. I stand by my statement.

Only she can beat her addiction and whether she has 67% of my sympathy or 100%.

[bocarioja]

Yeah, really.

thanks for your input. Thought provoking.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Many have no support and are successful.

She has advantages, IMO. I stand by my statement.

Only she can beat her addiction and whether she has 67% of my sympathy or 100%.
No one has argued otherwise, but once again, advantages don't always solve all problems. We never know what's within a person, either physically or psychologicaly, that causes the person to struggle as he or she does. I prefer to remain compassionate. You can choose not to. I think Oprah will be unaffected regardless. I'm not even a big Oprah fan, but I don't even see her begging for sympathy as you seem to think.

[still_me]

I saw something on the Today show but just caught the end of it. I hadn't realized she was asking for sympathy. I thought it was more about being in the spotlight and having it scrutinized again. I know that it's been hard for her to have every little bit of weight gain and loss publicized. People like her do choose to be in the public eye but I still have empathy for the tabloid frenzies they have to suffer.

I do get what you're saying though Boca. It's hard to understand her struggle with all the resources she has. I think though that when someone does have her resources and continues to struggle that there must be emotional issues that are causing the diet problems. I'm guessing no matter how much money you had, those would be much harder to fix. Much like a depressed person. They could have access to Dr's. meds, therapists, and all that but still struggle. If that makes sense.


This bears repeating.

Oprah does have the money for help, chefs, trainers. She doesn't have enough love and self respect for herself though. IF she did, she wouldn't be battling this constantly. Think how much pressure is put on women to look good. Now imagine being surrounded by women who always look that way. Women who are celebrities are under more pressure than an average women. It is their job. Their lifeline.

I do feel bad for her because any addiction to food is horrible for a person to go through. An eating disorder just doesn't mean bulimic or anorexia. I think the longer we see obesity in this country the more programs we'll see popping up. I personally don't think that people see obesity as a true addiction. They just think, 'Fatty needs control'. Her struggle is no less important or hard than any other addicts struggle.

[HammBugga]

See Boca, that's where I think you don't understand. Addiction is not something that can be "beaten". You don't just wake up one day after not using your drug of choice and all of a sudden you are not an addict anymore. Your disease is still inside of you. Waiting for a moment of vulnerability. A split second to break through your defenses. Which is why a good support group is really important. However, it is not a cure. There is no cure for the disease of addiction.

Yes she makes a decision every time she brings that fork to her lips. But I can tell you from experience that she probably really doesn't want to do it, she feels like she HAS to do it.That without that piece of cake or bowl of ice cream or whatever it is, she will be empty inside. And will have to deal with whatever it is she is running from.

[bocarioja]

Maybe, but it's probably because I have far too much experience with people with addictions and other disorders. You could have handed my brother $10 billion, and he still wouldn't have been able to quit drinking (he'd already gone through DTs twice), and he'd still be dead.

I am sorry.

The right medical help saved my life when I was anorexic. When I found out what my parents paid for it, I just cried. Insurance didn't cover it, but I probably would have been dead right now without it.

I am a believer in the right support. and I know what it costs both personally and monetarily.

[bocarioja]

No one has argued otherwise, but once again, advantages don't always solve all problems. We never know what's within a person, either physically or psychologicaly, that causes the person to struggle as he or she does. I prefer to remain compassionate. You can choose not to. I think Oprah will be unaffected regardless. I'm not even a big Oprah fan, but I don't even see her begging for sympathy as you seem to think.

again, I am not completely without compassion. I don't seee her as "begging" either.

[KaraJ]

See Boca, that's where I think you don't understand. Addiction is not something that can be "beaten". You don't just wake up one day after not using your drug of choice and all of a sudden you are not an addict anymore. Your disease is still inside of you. Waiting for a moment of vulnerability. A split second to break through your defenses. Which is why a good support group is really important. However, it is not a cure. There is no cure for the disease of addiction.

Yes she makes a decision every time she brings that fork to her lips. But I can tell you from experience that she probably really doesn't want to do it, she feels like she HAS to do it.That without that piece of cake or bowl of ice cream or whatever it is, she will be empty inside. And will have to deal with whatever it is she is running from.


Willpower is a cure.

[still_me]

Willpower is a cure.


WTF?!? :mad: Willpower...pffffffffft. Tell that to my dad who had A CHEMICAL ADDICTION. Tell that to people who........fark, NEVER MIND.

[HammBugga]

Fuck off Kara, seriously. Willpower my ass.

[still_me]

OH! Damn that pissed me off.

Karaj, one day when I am not seeing red and actually stop shivering from recalling what I farkin went through as a kid, I'll consider pm'ing you and telling you what really goes on in an addicts world.

Willpower!?> That I don't have when people just....act like addiction is some farkin choice.

AHHHHHHHHHGR

[JudyJudyJudy]

I am sorry.

The right medical help saved my life when I was anorexic. When I found out what my parents paid for it, I just cried. Insurance didn't cover it, but I probably would have been dead right now without it.

I am a believer in the right support. and I know what it costs both personally and monetarily.
My brother had insurance. He had a good doctor. He was able to go to inpatient rehab. He had a loving wife and a supportive family. He is still dead, though, because he is one of those people who, for whatever reason, couldn't make it through it. He died at 52. My father died at 51 (I was 8), most likely due to alcoholism and smoking (my father had gone through DTs as well and had briefly been back on the wagon when he died). I wish I had the answers to fix everyone, but I don't. Even money can't fix everyone.

[HammBugga]

I am sorry.

The right medical help saved my life when I was anorexic. When I found out what my parents paid for it, I just cried. Insurance didn't cover it, but I probably would have been dead right now without it.

I am a believer in the right support. and I know what it costs both personally and monetarily.

I am really surprised to read you have an ED. You of all people should know that when you are in the grip of your disease it doesn't matter if a million people are surrounding you with all the support in the world. That's not the way it works. You have to be READY to help yourself, to let others help you. You can be in a room of 100 people and still feel alone. Oprah IS just like you when it comes to her ED. Money has nothing to do with it.

[HammBugga]

Furthermore Kara, why don't you use some of that wonderful willpower you possess and refrain from spewing your bullshit.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Willpower is a cure.
Perhaps you should exercise your own willpower and not hit "enter."

[JudyJudyJudy]

Hamm, great minds.

[HammBugga]

jinx,sorta.

[HammBugga]

lol, again.

[still_me]

I am really surprised to read you have an ED. You of all people should know that when you are in the grip of your disease it doesn't matter if a million people are surrounding you with all the support in the world. That's not the way it works. You have to be READY to help yourself, to let others help you. You can be in a room of 100 people and still feel alone. Oprah IS just like you when it comes to her ED. Money has nothing to do with it.


I'm not. She has openly talked about it before. It is a whole other type of addiction and hard I'm sure, to see someone with resources right at their hands, but not be able to do it.

My dad had some of the best drug and alcohol addiction help. Twice. It wasn't until jail was a reality and he had lost his family that he hit bottom. He credits DS1's birth to his recovery, but really he was at deaths door and banging on it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I am really surprised to read you have an ED. You of all people should know that when you are in the grip of your disease it doesn't matter if a million people are surrounding you with all the support in the world. That's not the way it works. You have to be READY to help yourself, to let others help you. You can be in a room of 100 people and still feel alone. Oprah IS just like you when it comes to her ED. Money has nothing to do with it.
I think it's one of those deals where a person thinks, "If I can do it, everyone ought to be able to."

[bocarioja]

See Boca, that's where I think you don't understand. Addiction is not something that can be "beaten".

It has to be managed. Constantly. Thanks. I am all too well aware...

You don't just wake up one day after not using your drug of choice and all of a sudden you are not an addict anymore. Your disease is still inside of you. Waiting for a moment of vulnerability. A split second to break through your defenses. Which is why a good support group is really important. However, it is not a cure. There is no cure for the disease of addiction.

There are ways to take steps to actively manage your addiction, starting with a group, therapy, Rx if necessary. Being able to afford this without having to make other sacrifices is a luxury most do not have.

Yes she makes a decision every time she brings that fork to her lips. But I can tell you from experience that she probably really doesn't want to do it, she feels like she HAS to do it.That without that piece of cake or bowl of ice cream or whatever it is, she will be empty inside. And will have to deal with whatever it is she is running from.

Personal efforts can be enhanced greatly with professional help. That is all I have been saying. She can't rely on professional help to beat it for her, but she can rest easier than most, including me, when writing the checks for her help.

[bocarioja]

Willpower is a cure.

please, no.

go away.

[rock__]

Well, yeah, the same can be said of any disease.

[HammBugga]

Yes I have seen friends struggle with addiction for YEARS. They had all the support in the world. Went to the best rehabs, did everything you are supposed to do. Yet they relapsed, for whatever reason and are dead now. Very close friends who I loved dearly. Dead. I don't blame them though. I do wish they would have picked up a phone and called me or someone, anyone. But I know why they didn't. Because their addiction was calling and they couldn't say no.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Well, yeah, the same can be said of any disease.
Exactly. Someone who has plenty of money can pay for better cancer treatments, but there still are no guarantees.

[still_me]

I wonder if death from health complications doesn't scare her because she can basically have anything she wants in life. KWIM? She lives in another realm really when it comes to every day life.

[bocarioja]

I think it's one of those deals where a person thinks, "If I can do it, everyone ought to be able to."

Not even close. I battle every day. I pay for therapy.

What I pay results in a burden on my family.

I look at Oprah and wish I had her resources to cook for me, to encourage me....

[KaraJ]

OH! Damn that pissed me off.

Karaj, one day when I am not seeing red and actually stop shivering from recalling what I farkin went through as a kid, I'll consider pm'ing you and telling you what really goes on in an addicts world.

Willpower!?> That I don't have when people just....act like addiction is some farkin choice.

AHHHHHHHHHGR


I was talking about food addiction, which is not (under most circumstances) as serious as a chemical addiction.
I have relatives who have an addiction to alcohol, which is much more serious than my addiction to food.

[RaisingThemLeft]

If you could afford to hire a coach and trainer to help you work out, show up everyday and motivate you, someone to cook for you.. you wouldn't take advantage of that?

Sure, you made changes that were free, but you never think that maybe you'd have more success if you could afford a different approach? You could justify that bowl of ice cream because you know your trainer will help you burn a few extra calories...

Overcoming any addiction struggle is easier if you have a support network in addition to will power.

I did have success when I put the work in. The same holds true if you have money. It's what you are willing to put into it. And you can't really justify the extra calories with excersize, I've learned that the hard way.

[rock__]

I was talking about food addiction, which is not (under most circumstances) as serious as a chemical addiction.

In some ways it's worse. You have to have food to live. So finding that healthy balance when your mind is not healthy is easy. When I quit smoking cigarettes it was easy compared to my food problems, because I could quit completely. Just say no and all that jazz. However food is completely different.

[Teresa64]

Here's my opinion..btw I didn't read all the thread.

I don't think she is looking for sympathy. Everything in her life is publicized and she is used to that. The media probably plays a role in her checks and balences...I hope that makes sense. If she tells the world she is going to loose weight then she has too or she is letting down all her fans. KWIM?

Also her publicizing her struggles may help other people struggling with the same thing. She is a public figure. If just one person see's her struggle and decides if she can do it so can I...then well she is helping that person.

I don't watch Opera...but I do remember when my mom watched her show when I was little and she was struggling with her weight then.

[HammBugga]

I was talking about food addiction, which is not (under most circumstances) as serious as a chemical addiction.


Seriously. Please go away.

[still_me]

Actually, you are wrong. She very well can be addicted to the sugar found in her food. OR perhaps, to the chemicals and addictives.

It very well could be a chemical reaction. Do you think bulimics or anorexics just need will power?

[zanie]

Oh good grief. She eats too many doughnuts and too much fried chicken. She isn't sad or depressed or in need of therapy for some deep seeded abuse. She LIKES food, it tastes good. Probably like most of the overweight people here.

She is not a morbidly obese person who has a severe mental problem... she eats too much. And, yes, to stop eating so much takes willpower, nothing more. Instead of lying on the couch, eating a snack, she could just as easily get up and walk a mile or two on the treadmill. But, she doesn't want to. It's hard. It's easier to whine and then have another glass of chocolate milk.

You know it's true.

[HammBugga]

I'm not. She has openly talked about it before. It is a whole other type of addiction and hard I'm sure, to see someone with resources right at their hands, but not be able to do it.

My dad had some of the best drug and alcohol addiction help. Twice. It wasn't until jail was a reality and he had lost his family that he hit bottom. He credits DS1's birth to his recovery, but really he was at deaths door and banging on it.


The bolded part is a testament to just how powerful the disease of addiction is. It's not about the resources, it's about the disease.

[rock__]

Oh a magic mind reader. Awesome. Do you do lotto numbers too?

[bocarioja]

I am really surprised to read you have an ED. You of all people should know that when you are in the grip of your disease it doesn't matter if a million people are surrounding you with all the support in the world. That's not the way it works. You have to be READY to help yourself, to let others help you. You can be in a room of 100 people and still feel alone. Oprah IS just like you when it comes to her ED. Money has nothing to do with it.

This is where I venomously disagree.

I battle *to get* the people in my life who have helped the most.

Then I fight the money battles.

Then I want to try and save money by not eating.

The fundamentals of addiction are the same, but Oprah is playing ping pong (serious ping pong) between food/exercise/emotion

...while I am juggling bankruptcy (in my eyes).

Oprah is not like me.

[RaisingThemLeft]

I am sorry.

The right medical help saved my life when I was anorexic. When I found out what my parents paid for it, I just cried. Insurance didn't cover it, but I probably would have been dead right now without it.

I am a believer in the right support. and I know what it costs both personally and monetarily.


So because that program worked for you, you'd have no sympathy for someone who couldn't beat their ED even if they were able to be in that program? I don't get that. You and Just Moi sound very bitter.

[still_me]

Oh good grief. She eats too many doughnuts and too much fried chicken. She isn't sad or depressed or in need of therapy for some deep seeded abuse. She LIKES food, it tastes good. Probably like most of the overweight people here.

She is not a morbidly obese person who has a severe mental problem... she eats too much. And, yes, to stop eating so much takes willpower, nothing more. Instead of lying on the couch, eating a snack, she could just as easily get up and walk a mile or two on the treadmill. But, she doesn't want to. It's hard. It's easier to whine and then have another glass of chocolate milk.

You know it's true.


LMAOROFL. She is obese. Not morbidly, but she is obese. She is in danger health wise. Anyone who is that overweight is.

I swear you are shit stirrer and a cold hearted one at that. Now, saddle up on your high horse and ride away into your perfect little world.

ETA: And she is black. The black race has a higher chance of heart disease.

[KaraJ]

Actually, you are wrong. She very well can be addicted to the sugar found in her food. OR perhaps, to the chemicals and addictives.

It very well could be a chemical reaction. Do you think bulimics or anorexics just need will power?

That's a good question, I don't know. Saying "willpower" was too broad. I'll own to that, reading more of the thread. I do think there are many cases though, where people could exercise willpower but don't.
The addiction comes from somewhere, I could have pulled the reins on my eating habits as a teen, but didn't. My eating it out of control, and is a lot harder to curb then it could have been. Saying that, I haven't gotten the whole willpower thing down myself.
I apologize about my earlier comment. I didn't mean to offend you, Stillme, I really didn't and I'm sorry.

[HammBugga]

Oh good grief. She eats too many doughnuts and too much fried chicken. She isn't sad or depressed or in need of therapy for some deep seeded abuse. She LIKES food, it tastes good. Probably like most of the overweight people here.

She is not a morbidly obese person who has a severe mental problem... she eats too much. And, yes, to stop eating so much takes willpower, nothing more. Instead of lying on the couch, eating a snack, she could just as easily get up and walk a mile or two on the treadmill. But, she doesn't want to. It's hard. It's easier to whine and then have another glass of chocolate milk.

You know it's true.

The truth I know is watching my baby sister practically DIE in front of my eyes from an ED. Seeing her laid up in a hospital bed for months wondering if she would stop breathing at any moment. And to see her go from one extreme to the next, anorexic/bulimic vs, overeating/binging. Both were eating disorders. It wasn't as simple as just getting on the treadmill. In fact, all that dieting and treadmill walking was what nearly killed her to begin with.

Another thing I really KNOW to be true is that you are an asshole. So I will take your bullshit and file it with KaraJ's under "assholes I don't give a shit about" in my notebook.

[rock__]

No, she's not. But I'm not like you either, or Judy. *shrug* We are all different, with our own individual struggles. There are some you may share with the wealthiest, and some you may share with the poorest. Imagine how someone in a country who can't get enough water to keep her baby alive feels about our struggles. Ours pale in comparison, but are still real to us.

[bocarioja]

So because that program worked for you, you'd have no sympathy for someone who couldn't beat their ED even if they were able to be in that program? I don't get that. You and Just Moi sound very bitter.

I never said anything close to that. I never said I didn't have any sympathy either.

[KaraJ]

Oh good grief. She eats too many doughnuts and too much fried chicken. She isn't sad or depressed or in need of therapy for some deep seeded abuse. She LIKES food, it tastes good. Probably like most of the overweight people here.

She is not a morbidly obese person who has a severe mental problem... she eats too much. And, yes, to stop eating so much takes willpower, nothing more. Instead of lying on the couch, eating a snack, she could just as easily get up and walk a mile or two on the treadmill. But, she doesn't want to. It's hard. It's easier to whine and then have another glass of chocolate milk.

You know it's true.


:D

Actually, that pretty much sounds like everyone I know.

[RaisingThemLeft]

Not even close. I battle every day. I pay for therapy.

What I pay results in a burden on my family.

I look at Oprah and wish I had her resources to cook for me, to encourage me....

So then someone who has less rescources than you do, who can't pay for therapy at all, could be looking down on you with no sympathy because they have sour grapes that you have it so easy, being able to go to therapy and all.

[still_me]

That's a good question, I don't know. Saying "willpower" was too broad. I'll own to that, reading more of the thread. I do think there are many cases though, where people could exercise willpower but don't.
The addiction comes from somewhere, I could have pulled the reins on my eating habits as a teen, but didn't. My eating it out of control, and is a lot harder to curb then it could have been. Saying that, I haven't gotten the whole willpower thing down myself.
I apologize about my earlier comment. I didn't mean to offend you, Stillme, I really didn't and I'm sorry.

Thank you for your apology.

[zanie]

LMAOROFL. She is obese. Not morbidly, but she is obese. She is in danger health wise. Anyone who is that overweight is.

I swear you are shit stirrer and a cold hearted one at that. Now, saddle up on your high horse and ride away into your perfect little world.What is with the perfect little world? Does everything have to be made into a disease or a battle or a desperate situation? She eats too much. She knows what she has to do to lose the weight and she just doesn't feel like doing it.

She will... she has before. She will eat less, exercise more and voila, she will lose the weight. This isn't rocket science.

[rock__]

Good to know someone has all the answers.

[KaraJ]

Thank you for your apology.

Thanks for accepting it.

[zanie]

The truth I know is watching my baby sister practically DIE in front of my eyes from an ED. Seeing her laid up in a hospital bed for months wondering if she would stop breathing at any moment. And to see her go from one extreme to the next, anorexic/bulimic vs, overeating/binging. Both were eating disorders. It wasn't as simple as just getting on the treadmill. In fact, all that dieting and treadmill walking was what nearly killed her to begin with.

Another thing I really KNOW to be true is that you are an asshole. So I will take your bullshit and file it with KaraJ's under "assholes I don't give a shit about" in my notebook.Blah, blah, blah. Oprah doesn't have anorexia, and I doubt she suffers from any mental condition. She overeats, like about 80% of Americans.

[rock__]

Damn Kara you are just a bitch. You apologize and sound human, then you get a fucking hard on for the first person to come alone who's even nastier then you. Are you a piece of shit friend like this to people IRL. I hope not. You've got no spine.

[married_bears]

Just shaking my head wondering why all the morons seek us out. Shall we argue about how you have diarrhea of the hands cause all you are saying is ****.

[bocarioja]

So then someone who has less rescources than you do, who can't pay for therapy at all, could be looking down on you with no sympathy because they have sour grapes that you have it so easy, being able to go to therapy and all.

why are you fixed on the no sympathy thing?

I resent that Oprah thinks she is like me. She can afford her help. While it isn't a cure, it's a start on the road to recovery.

I resent that others think that my problems are the same as Oprah's. SHe doesn't face self loathing when she writes a check.

I never said that I have zero sympathy.

[KaraJ]

Damn Kara you are just a bitch. You apologize and sound human, then you get a fucking hard on for the first person to come alone who's even nastier then you. Are you a piece of shit friend like this to people IRL. I hope not. You've got no spine.


English, please?

[Teresa64]

How do you know she doesn't have a deep underlying reason for over eating?

[still_me]

What is with the perfect little world? Does everything have to be made into a disease or a battle or a desperate situation? She eats too much. She knows what she has to do to lose the weight and she just doesn't feel like doing it.

She will... she has before. She will eat less, exercise more and voila, she will lose the weight. This isn't rocket science.


No, not everything has to be made into a disease or a battle or a desperate situation. But in this case it applies pretty well, IMO. That is why I believe people are not at the point of seeing obesity as a true eating disorder.

To be completely honest, she needs to talking about it and to stop looking for approval from strangers. She needs mental, emotional, physical, and for her, spiritual help. Destructing your body in any manner, isn't healthy. It isn't controllable and shouldn't be tossed aside lightly. She is killing herself. Period. She needs help for that. She finds comfort in food like my father found it in 8 balls and whiskey.

The same question applies for you, Zanie. Do you think that things like bulimia or anorexia are controllable? And could you even possibly entertain the idea that her body could be addicted to sugar or the crap added to food?

[KaraJ]

How do you know she doesn't have a deep underlying reason for over eating? This is a great question. We don't know. None of us do. But on the other hand, there may not be a reason other than she likes fatty food and lots of it. Nobody knows, except maybe Oprah.

[rock__]

English, please?

Not worth the effort.

I'm sorry I let you get under my skin.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I wonder if death from health complications doesn't scare her because she can basically have anything she wants in life. KWIM? She lives in another realm really when it comes to every day life.
I'm not sure if I understand. Are you staying that she thinks she is immune to health problems because she is rich? :confused:


Not even close. I battle every day. I pay for therapy.

What I pay results in a burden on my family.

I look at Oprah and wish I had her resources to cook for me, to encourage me....
You may get pissed at me for stating the obvious, but it sounds as though you're thinking if you just had money like she does, your problems would be solved. A lot of my problems could be solved with money. However, shitty genetics could not be.

[KaraJ]

Not worth the effort.

I'm sorry I let you get under my skin.
Me too. I apologized to Still_Me, because I unintentionally hurt her feelings, and felt bad about it.

[zanie]

No, not everything has to be made into a disease or a battle or a desperate situation. But in this case it applies pretty well, IMO. That is why I believe people are not at the point of seeing obesity as a true eating disorder.

To be completely honest, she needs to talking about it and to stop looking for approval from strangers. She needs mental, emotional, physical, and for her, spiritual help. Destructing your body in any manner, isn't healthy. It isn't controllable and shouldn't be tossed aside lightly. She is killing herself. Period. She needs help for that. She finds comfort in food like my father found it in 8 balls and whiskey.

The same question applies for you, Zanie. Do you think that things like bulimia or anorexia are controllable? And could you even possibly entertain the idea that her body could be addicted to sugar or the crap added to food?I think that people who suffer from anorexia are mentally ill and out of control. Same with bulimia. I don't think Oprah suffers from either. Look at the general population... most are like Oprah. They like food and eat too much of it.

[still_me]

Not worth the effort.

I'm sorry I let you get under my skin.


Oh what the hey. :bate:



Karaj, You apologized for me because of the whole willpower thing and then turned right around and agreed with Zanie when she said basically the same thing as you did about willpower, but with more words.

So either you stand by what you said to me, or you just took a crap on the apology that you gave to me.

[rock__]

This is a great question. We don't know. None of us do. But on the other hand, there may not be a reason other than she likes fatty food and lots of it. Nobody knows, except maybe Oprah.

No. I have no clue what goes on in the deepest realms of that which is Oprah. Which is why I don't try to speculate about why she feels or says what she does.

I do know she'd have to be insane to chose to be fat. Being fat is hell. Not to mention, it's got to be rough on her public image as a weight loss guru or sorts.

[HammBugga]

Damn Kara you are just a bitch. You apologize and sound human, then you get a fucking hard on for the first person to come alone who's even nastier then you. Are you a piece of shit friend like this to people IRL. I hope not. You've got no spine.


You said exactly what I was thinking. Then again Kara is famous for apologizing and not really meaning it.

[KaraJ]

Oh what they hey. :bate:



Karaj, You apologized for me because of the whole willpower thing and then turned right around and agreed with Zanie when she said basically the same thing as you did about willpower, but with more words.

So either you stand by what you said to me, or you just took a crap on the apology that you gave to me.
Then I misunderstood Zanie's quote. I thought she was merely saying that perhaps Oprah doesn't have an addiction at all, and just likes to eat a lot, and hates exercise (don't we all?).

[HammBugga]

Blah, blah, blah. Oprah doesn't have anorexia, and I doubt she suffers from any mental condition. She overeats, like about 80% of Americans.


She has said she struggles with food addiction. Only she can say what is wrong with her. Not you.

[still_me]

I'm not sure if I understand. Are you staying that she thinks she is immune to health problems because she is rich? :confused:



Not at all. I am saying that she doesn't worry about too much because money fixes a lot of her problems (obviously not all). I wonder if she sees herself as indestructible because nothing really stands in her way. So, when it comes to eating, she gets help and then relapses, but death doesn't work that way.

I don't feel like I am wording it right.

More like you know when you are little and you think you are invincible? I wonder how many people with money think that way.

[bocarioja]

You may get pissed at me for stating the obvious, but it sounds as though you're thinking if you just had money like she does, your problems would be solved. A lot of my problems could be solved with money. However, shitty genetics could not be.

Not pissed at all. I was enjoying the debate until Kara showed up...

I just feel like the money would relieve the stress *my battle* causes my family. It isn't fair to them.

Money can't fix genetics.

[zanie]

She has said she struggles with food addiction. Only she can say what is wrong with her. Not you.Well, what exactly is food addiction? Liking it and eating too much of it.

Her body type probably puts on weight even thinking about food. It sucks that we can't eat all that we'd like to. Put a fancy name on it, but it's gonna take willpower to not go to the fridge.

[bocarioja]

Not at all. I am saying that she doesn't worry about too much because money fixes a lot of her problems (obviously not all). I wonder if she sees herself as indestructible because nothing really stands in her way. So, when it comes to eating, she gets help and then relapses, but death doesn't work that way.

I don't feel like I am wording it right.

More like you know when you are little and you think you are invincible? I wonder how many people with money think that way.

People like Oprah can focus 100% on their health, getting better, and staying better. If they slip up, they can wash rinse repeat.

The rest of us have to wonder how to pay for it. It is a HUGE burden that does not help the recovery process.

Some may feel that its easier to be sick. I know I've felt that a lot recently.

[zanie]

Not pissed at all. I was enjoying the debate until Kara showed up...

I just feel like the money would relieve the stress *my battle* causes my family. It isn't fair to them.

Money can't fix genetics.Isn't that a struggle with anorexia anyway? Feeling as though you need to protect your family from it? I imagine you do all you can for them, with very little for yourself.

You place this burden on yourself that they must "feel" burdened more than they actually feel themselves?

I'm not sure if I am asking this properly.

[still_me]

Well, what exactly is food addiction? Liking it and eating too much of it.

Her body type probably puts on weight even thinking about food. It sucks that we can't eat all that we'd like to. Put a fancy name on it, but it's gonna take willpower to not go to the fridge.


No one is saying willpower isn't needed. What we are saying is that it takes more than willpower and we don't know the full story to why she is the way she is.

Is she crying out for help? Probably. In some manner every addict is. That doesn't mean she doesn't deserve support though.

[JudyJudyJudy]

No, she's not. But I'm not like you either, or Judy. *shrug* We are all different, with our own individual struggles. There are some you may share with the wealthiest, and some you may share with the poorest. Imagine how someone in a country who can't get enough water to keep her baby alive feels about our struggles. Ours pale in comparison, but are still real to us.
Exactly. When I struggled with miscarriages and then infertility, it was very difficult for me (and still is at times) despite the fact that I already had one child. While I had huge sympathy for others who were struggling, the fact that others are struggling with no children didn't diminish my own pain.


So then someone who has less rescources than you do, who can't pay for therapy at all, could be looking down on you with no sympathy because they have sour grapes that you have it so easy, being able to go to therapy and all.
I agree.


why are you fixed on the no sympathy thing?

I resent that Oprah thinks she is like me. She can afford her help. While it isn't a cure, it's a start on the road to recovery.

I resent that others think that my problems are the same as Oprah's. SHe doesn't face self loathing when she writes a check.
And you know this how?


I never said that I have zero sympathy.[/QUOTE]
It did sound that way:

I simply can not feel sorry a person who has access to private chefs, the best food and health care, private trainers, modern fitness equiment, personal motivators, and whatever else money can buy.

__________________________________________________ ___________________


Not at all. I am saying that she doesn't worry about too much because money fixes a lot of her problems (obviously not all). I wonder if she sees herself as indestructible because nothing really stands in her way. So, when it comes to eating, she gets help and then relapses, but death doesn't work that way.

I don't feel like I am wording it right.

More like you know when you are little and you think you are invincible? I wonder how many people with money think that way.
I don't agree at all. I've already discussed my brother and father, so now I'll bring up my sister, who is also an alcoholic. I truly don't think she can live much longer, yet she doesn't want to die, but she, deep down, knows she's killing herself. She keeps going to doctors hoping they can fix the problems that alcohol has caused, yet she keeps drinking. She doesn't continue to drink because she thinks she's invincible. She drinks because she can't control her addiction. Likewise, I don't think Oprah keeps gaining her weight back simply because she thinks she is invincible.

[still_me]

People like Oprah can focus 100% on their health, getting better, and staying better. If they slip up, they can wash rinse repeat.

The rest of us have to wonder how to pay for it. It is a HUGE burden that does not help the recovery process.

Some may feel that its easier to be sick. I know I've felt that a lot recently.


:hug: I understand what you are saying. I'm sorry you've seen this first hand too many times in your life. My pm box is open.

[bocarioja]

Isn't that a struggle with anorexia anyway? Feeling as though you need to protect your family from it? I imagine you do all you can for them, with very little for yourself.

You place this burden on yourself that they must "feel" burdened more than they actually feel themselves?

I'm not sure if I am asking this properly.


Really, its a non issue according to you. Why should I waste my time?

[JudyJudyJudy]

People like Oprah can focus 100% on their health, getting better, and staying better. If they slip up, they can wash rinse repeat.

The rest of us have to wonder how to pay for it. It is a HUGE burden that does not help the recovery process.

Some may feel that its easier to be sick. I know I've felt that a lot recently.
I returned to work last December so that I could have insurance so that I could try to get well, but ironically, I became sicker instead. It sucks.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

She bores me now. Too guru-ish.

This is exactly how I feel about Oprah.

I was really into her for awhile when Anna Karenina was her Book Club selection. Since then...meh.

[zanie]

Really, its a non issue according to you. Why should I waste my time?Where have I said this is a non-issue? Suffering from anorexia is entirely different than a middle-aged woman fighting the battle of the bulge all of her life in the public eye.

I think we all have traits of either one... the tendency to overeat or the tendency to not eat. Most of the time, we tend to overeat and are slightly overweight. I think that's all it is with Oprah. Do I know for certain? No, but she seems to represent most of the 40-60 year old women I know.

But a few people take it to the extreme. Then it becomes not so much about food anymore. If that makes any sense. I think those that go to that extreme, indeed do need extra support and therapy.

[Tweet]

The value of the right support group can not be over estimated.


But the right support group for each person can have not a fucking thing to do with money. Like 12 step programs have been for millions of people, rich and poor. I'm not sure why you're so focused on her having money for the "right" support. Again, for all you know, maybe she gets more out of OA than she does a high priced shrink. We don't know. I just think it's kind of strange to be bitter that she's talking about her struggles simply because she's got lots of money. If it's a deep seated issue, and we don't know where exactly she gets her help. Trainers and chefs are a very small part of it, I am positive.

[still_me]

I don't agree at all. I've already discussed my brother and father, so now I'll bring up my sister, who is also an alcoholic. I truly don't think she can live much longer, yet she doesn't want to die, but she, deep down, knows she's killing herself. She keeps going to doctors hoping they can fix the problems that alcohol has caused, yet she keeps drinking. She doesn't continue to drink because she thinks she's invincible. She drinks because she can't control her addiction. Likewise, I don't think Oprah keeps gaining her weight back simply because she thinks she is invincible.

I'm sorry about your sister Judy. I watched my Uncle do the same thing, even on his death bed asking for a new liver.

I think obesity is trickier than some other addictions because Oprah can still function and go about her everyday life. Unless, she gets so fat she can't move or has serious health complications, it doesn't slow her down. It is also more accepted and seen as fine by some people. Snorting coke isn't acceptable, but eating a cheeseburger with ff while out for lunch with your gf (when you shouldn't be) is just seen as a treat. Top that off with "yes people" and no monetary problems and I think you can hide from reality more.

[bocarioja]

Judy, while I do not wish her failure, I see her as having distinct advantages helping in her fight her battles. While not a cure, I still do not feel sorry for her. I sympathize with her battle. I understand it. I can relate, thus I can sympathize...But I do not feel sorry.

I feel sorry for people who have no chance of ever getting the help they need.

[bocarioja]

Where have I said this is a non-issue? Suffering from anorexia is entirely different than a middle-aged woman fighting the battle of the bulge all of her life in the public eye.

I think we all have traits of either one... the tendency to overeat or the tendency to not eat. Most of the time, we tend to overeat and are slightly overweight. I think that's all it is with Oprah. Do I know for certain? No, but she seems to represent most of the 40-60 year old women I know.

But a few people take it to the extreme. Then it becomes not so much about food anymore. If that makes any sense. I think those that go to that extreme, indeed do need extra support and therapy.

Thanks. I'm cured. Now go away.

[Tweet]

I was talking about food addiction, which is not (under most circumstances) as serious as a chemical addiction.
I have relatives who have an addiction to alcohol, which is much more serious than my addiction to food.


Surely you aren't this stupid. Do you make yourself vomit? Are your teeth eroded? Are your insides falling completely apart? Do you stay inside, alone in your room, counting each bite of sprout that you can barely stomach? Are you on the verge of death because you're weak and weigh 86 pounds? Don't dare say it's "not as serious". That's bullshit. All it is is a different substance. But make no mistakes, it sure as shit can kill. And it has .

[still_me]

Where have I said this is a non-issue? Suffering from anorexia is entirely different than a middle-aged woman fighting the battle of the bulge all of her life in the public eye.

I think we all have traits of either one... the tendency to overeat or the tendency to not eat. Most of the time, we tend to overeat and are slightly overweight. I think that's all it is with Oprah. Do I know for certain? No, but she seems to represent most of the 40-60 year old women I know.

But a few people take it to the extreme. Then it becomes not so much about food anymore. If that makes any sense. I think those that go to that extreme, indeed do need extra support and therapy.

What is to say that she hasn't taken it to the extreme?

And I don't mean to offend anyone, but if her weight is seen as "typical" or just a bulge then...then the mind set needs to be changed, because it isn't healthy. At all. She is at a high risk for heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, back and knee problems, cholesterol. Long term acid reflux can turn into very serious complications. The list goes on and on.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Surely you aren't this stupid. Do you make yourself vomit? Are your teeth eroded? Are your insides falling completely apart? Do you stay inside, alone in your room, counting each bite of sprout that you can barely stomach? Are you on the verge of death because you're weak and weigh 86 pounds? Don't dare say it's "not as serious". That's bullshit. All it is is a different substance. But make no mistakes, it sure as shit can kill. And it has .

:nods head:

In fact, eating disorders have the highest rate of relapse and eventual death than any other form of addiction, IIRC.

[bocarioja]

But the right support group for each person can have not a fucking thing to do with money. Like 12 step programs have been for millions of people, rich and poor. I'm not sure why you're so focused on her having money for the "right" support. Again, for all you know, maybe she gets more out of OA than she does a high priced shrink. We don't know. I just think it's kind of strange to be bitter that she's talking about her struggles simply because she's got lots of money. If it's a deep seated issue, and we don't know where exactly she gets her help. Trainers and chefs are a very small part of it, I am positive.

I addressed this...

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm sorry about your sister Judy. I watched my Uncle do the same thing, even on his death bed asking for a new liver.
It's really sad, isn't it? :(


I think obesity is trickier than some other addictions because Oprah can still function and go about her everyday life. Unless, she gets so fat she can't move or has serious health complications, it doesn't slow her down. It is also more accepted and seen as fine by some people. Snorting coke isn't acceptable, but eating a cheeseburger with ff while out for lunch with your gf (when you shouldn't be) is just seen as a treat. Top that off with "yes people" and no monetary problems and I think you can hide from reality more.
I see what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree. Like my obese friend says, the coke addict (little c) she knows has an easier time of getting a date than she does because at least she's thin. While I do think we in the Western world are starting to see obesity as normal (which isn't good, IMO), I do agree with my friend that there are many times when others are more willing to accept someone who smokes or does drugs over a person who overeats.

[still_me]

It's really sad, isn't it? :(



I see what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree. Like my obese friend says, the coke addict (little c) she knows has an easier time of getting a date than she does because at least she's thin. While I do think we in the Western world are starting to see obesity as normal (which isn't good, IMO), I do agree with my friend that there are many times when others are more willing to accept someone who smokes or does drugs over a person who overeats.

I can see what you are saying too. ^


And, yes, it is sad to see someone you love abuse. The same Uncle lost everything, including a really promising professional music career. I remember my dad found him one night in a snowbank passed out, seriously in danger. He brought him home and my Uncle was trying to get away from help 2 days later. His daughter (my cousin) is the same way. Nothing can pull them back from the edge and the pull they must feel scares me to death. Substance abuse is passed down in our family. Fortunately, my generation of the family has battled it largely in part to seeing our Uncles fail. Which is unfortunate in it's own manner.

[zanie]

What is to say that she hasn't taken it to the extreme?

And I don't mean to offend anyone, but if her weight is seen as "typical" or just a bulge then...then the mind set needs to be changed, because it isn't healthy. At all. She is at a high risk for heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, back and knee problems, cholesterol. Long term acid reflux can turn into very serious complications. The list goes on and on.I think her weight IS typical. I really do.

Now, has she taken it to the extreme? You're right, I don't know. But I think weight issues are always a struggle for the average person. If you sit on the mall bench, MOST of the people walking by are going to be more like Oprah, than not.

Do you agree with that?

I think we all daily have to fight something or other. I think that's part of being human and not really a disorder of any type.

I think people like to pretend that they have it worse or have more serious issues or have this or have that, but in reality, a little lifestyle change is what it will take to cure the problem. Which can only be overcome with personal willpower found within themselves only.

But then again, the average person, is pretty lazy and more apt to blame someone/something else for their problem.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Surely you aren't this stupid. Do you make yourself vomit? Are your teeth eroded? Are your insides falling completely apart? Do you stay inside, alone in your room, counting each bite of sprout that you can barely stomach? Are you on the verge of death because you're weak and weigh 86 pounds? Don't dare say it's "not as serious". That's bullshit. All it is is a different substance. But make no mistakes, it sure as shit can kill. And it has .
I agree. Eating disorders are very serious. A girl I went to school with (I'll call her Jan) weighed 146 pounds in 6th grade (we were weighed in P.E.; I weighed 72, and she was shorter than I was). She lost some weight in eighth grade, and then the summer before ninth grade, she lost a lot of weight. She was so proud of herself!

Then one day she was walking down the hall, and another girl saw the size on the back of her Levi's and said, "Size 9! That's big!" (Jan told me about this two years ago when she was at my uncle's 85th birthday party. If I'd known it when it happened, I'm afraid I would have kicked someone's ass.)

This really threw Jan over the edge. She became bulimic and was down to 80 pounds before the end of ninth grade. She ended up in the hospital for a while, but she never got over the bulimia.

Now she is 42 years old and is very mentally ill. I'm not sure what her diagnosis is, but she is so bad that you can look at her and tell that she's on meds. Unfortunately, she's also still bulimic. According to her family, the doctors think the bulimia and subsequent malnutrition are what caused her other mental illness. It's really sad.

I know that someone is sitting here thinking, "But overeating is different." It is not. Obesity causes the majority of health problems in America right now. A large percentage of deaths are actually related to obesity.

[zanie]

There is something that separates people who have anorexia or are majorly obese, from the "average" person who simply struggles with their weight.

Do you all agree? Or do you think it is all the same? Because the ones taking the offense are the ones on the extreme side of the fence and not the middle ground. Or at least, that is what I am perceiving.

[KaraJ]

Originally Posted by Tweet View Post
Surely you aren't this stupid. Do you make yourself vomit? Are your teeth eroded? Are your insides falling completely apart? Do you stay inside, alone in your room, counting each bite of sprout that you can barely stomach? Are you on the verge of death because you're weak and weigh 86 pounds? Don't dare say it's "not as serious". That's bullshit. All it is is a different substance. But make no mistakes, it sure as shit can kill. And it has . I just wasn't making myself clear. I wasn't referring to Anorexia or Bulimia either. I was referring to the sometimes less serious addiction to food where some tend to overindulge in unhealthy food and don't exercise. Though all real addictions are serious, some aren't are serious as others, is what I was trying to say.

[bocarioja]

There is something that separates people who have anorexia and are majorly obese, from the "average" person who simply struggles with their weight.

Do you all agree? Or do you think it is all the same? Because the ones taking the offense are the ones on the extreme side of the fence and not the middle ground. Or at least, that is what I am perceiving.

Why are you so fixated on diagnosing something that you simply can not comprehend?

I am not offended over the fact that I am a recovering anorexic, I am offended that you think you have all the answers.

[KaraJ]

And no, Tweet, I'm not anorexic, but I have friends who are and were. Thanks for asking.

[JudyJudyJudy]

There is something that separates people who have anorexia or are majorly obese, from the "average" person who simply struggles with their weight.

Do you all agree? Or do you think it is all the same? Because the ones taking the offense are the ones on the extreme side of the fence and not the middle ground. Or at least, that is what I am perceiving.
I am almost dead center of average weight (maybe just slightly below dead center but still average).

[zanie]

Why are you so fixated on diagnosing something that you simply can not comprehend?

I am not offended over the fact that I am a recovering anorexic, I am offended that you think you have all the answers.And why, why are you insisting that I cannot comprehend?

What exactly have I said that has been wrong in regards to anorexia?

[zanie]

Let's take women from the ages of say, 35-55. On the average, would you say richer women who can afford the health clubs, exercise equipment, etc., are thinner or fatter than their poorer counterparts?

[MrsKitty]

So I guess I will start this off by saying that I am not implying that Opera has an eating disorder, or that I think I know anything about her weight gain. I don't watch her shows or anything like that, or read about her, my entire knowledge of her existence is based on hearing about her from others. So what I have to say has not much to do with her and more to do with peoples views on eating disorders and fat people.

There is a difference between making poor food choices/eating too many snacks when you know you don't really need them...and having an eating disorder.

Eating disorders are not limited to anorexia and bulimia. There are so many eating disorders that don't get the same publicity as anorexia and bulimia, but are very real, very there, and many people struggle with them in private.

A person with an eating disorder may be emaciated, a little on the thin side, average, a bit over weight, or obese. There is no one "look" to a person with an eating disorder.

However, because of what we see in the media and are taught in school, we (as a society not a specific "we") hear eating disorder and think of someone who is very underweight and eats nothing but lettuce or goes and throws up after every meal.

This just is not the case.... but when was the last time anyone talked about orthorexia, diabulima, bigorexia, compulsive over eating, Prader-Willi Syndrome, Night Eating Syndrome, compulsive exercising, or the dreaded "Ed-Nos".... the word given to those who don't fit a category and are shuffled into the "eating disorder not otherwise specified" blob, a big mish mash of individuals who may fit most or a few of the diagnostic criteria for one disorder, and a few of another..but not quite enough to be diagnosed with anything specific.

Someone who is suffering and restricts/denys themselves food, is underweight, and is hurting is seen as anorexic and is deserving of help.

Someone who is suffering and throws up after they eat food, is underweight, and is hurting, is seen as bulumic and is deserving of help.

Someone is suffering and over eats in binges or throughout the day, and is fat, and is hurting....is seen as a lazy ass who has no self control, who could fix their problem by laying off the doughnuts and going to the gym once and a while, and should stop their whining because if they had any ounce of self control then they wouldnt be over weight in the first place.


It is not so simple as just "putting down the fork" or "buying more veggies at the store".

So hypothetical person A

So A goes to therapy, sees a psychologist, buys fresh fruits and vegetables, dosent keep junk food in the house, keeps active, cooks healthy meals, informs themselves about proper diet, stays away from crash dieting, and generally eats better then most of the population.

And it works great for A most of the time. Until some sort trigger happens. Something simple like a comment from someone, or something more complex like work stress or family troubles, or a bad memory or some sort of trauma.

Then...A who has had two healthy balanced meals, comes home, and lamets the fact that they keep junk food out of the house. A goes and tries to distract themselves, takes a hot bath, does some sort of an activity that A knows helps with their stress. But the comment or stressful situation keeps playing over and over in their head. Then the comment is accompanied by thoughts like.. "You deserve this because you are worthless" or "This wouldn't happen if you were this that or the other thing" The cycle goes further and soon the thoughts turn into "Nothing is going to ever get better you can't do anything right and your entire life is going to fail and you might as well give up now"

And somewhere in the back of A's mind, A realizes they are in the kitchen and there are three pots on the stove cooking a massive quantity of food...healthy food, loaded with sauces and condiments and butter and salt and anything found in the kitchen, because the more A adds the less A needs to think and the more A can punish A for being worthless. And then A eats and eats and eats, and cries the whole time, while a voice in A's head screams "STOP what are you doing" but the pain in A's expanding stomach is taking away the pain in A's heart. So A keeps on going.

The experince is repeated every day for a few days until the ephisode is over, or for a few months, or once a week ,or once a month, and A sometimes thinks its over and A has gotten a handle on things before the eating disorder rears its head again. Maybe A retains an average weight because A throws up after eating, or because A compulsively exercises, or because A only binges on rare occasions. Or maybe A is morbidly obese because A has so much pain that they eat like this all the time as the only way they know to stop the pain.


But it is easier for us to look at A and criticize and shake our heads and say "A maybe you should just go on a diet or work out more" then it is to accept that maybe A has a problem that goes deeper then an aversion to weight lifting.

[rock__]

I'm pretty obese right now. I hesitate to call it morbid, but medically speaking, I suppose there is no denying that's where I fall. But I haven't always been so. My struggles with eating started when I was about 12 years old and puberty hit. Ironically an obsession with trying to lose weight led to an obsession with food in general. I was a binger/purger. I vomited several times a day for years. But I always maintained a fairly high weight. But I didn't gain tons either. It wasn't until I quit puking that I started gaing weight.

Pregnancy freaked me out, because I couldnt' tell if I was vomitting so much because of physical or mental reasons. I'm still not sure. To this day, I rarely can go a few weeks without purging once.

Now in my late 20's it's a huge struggle. I started obsessing about every food that came into our house, I went to the gym and pushed myself to the point that my back still gives me pain months later from when it started. And oddly, I actually dont' mind exercising. Yeah I have trouble getting started, and I'm not great at it. I can't run. But I rather enjoy the time to myself, and it makes me feel good. But when the self-loathing comes in (like after months of this and still no weight loss, or worse gaining weight) then I don't want to do anything for myself. I abuse my body, and whenever I go to the kitchen because I'm hungry I start looking at the knives and part of me feels like cutting bits of my off, or just shoving the whole thing into my throat. No I don't do it, and I don't really want to. But I can assure you this is not something that I would want to experience soley out of not feeling like doing anything else.

[bocarioja]

And why, why are you insisting that I cannot comprehend?

What exactly have I said that has been wrong in regards to anorexia?

This quote shows you have no comprehension of an eating disorder.

Oh good grief. She eats too many doughnuts and too much fried chicken. She isn't sad or depressed or in need of therapy for some deep seeded abuse. She LIKES food, it tastes good. Probably like most of the overweight people here.

She is not a morbidly obese person who has a severe mental problem... she eats too much. And, yes, to stop eating so much takes willpower, nothing more. Instead of lying on the couch, eating a snack, she could just as easily get up and walk a mile or two on the treadmill. But, she doesn't want to. It's hard. It's easier to whine and then have another glass of chocolate milk.

You know it's true.

ETA: Oprah has been abused.

[zanie]

This quote shows you have no comprehension of an eating disorder.



ETA: Oprah has been abused.I don't believe that Oprah has an eating disorder. But, I will admit, I don't know that.

The general population likes to overeat and is overweight. I don't think the general overweight population suffers from an eating disorder. I think they suffer from too many Big Macs, Large Fries With That, a Side Order of Onion Rings and a Diet Coke.

[zanie]

And I also understand the real pain that comes with an eating disorder, and to those who have shared your stories and are currently suffering, I wish you well.

I really mean that.

[EvilAmy]

YOu know I really want to jump in and discuss this but I don't think I can stay calm.

There's food addiction.
There's simple flat out laziness and food tastes good.
There's anorexia and bulemia.

While reading this and being halfway through, my DD came out and said "No one is ever going to be able to convince me I'm not fat. I weigh "X amount"" And now I sit here wondering how I can help her without turning her into me, and trying to figure out what I want to say here in a rational manner.

Kara and Zanie, you just simply don't have a clue.

[EvilAmy]

The general population likes to overeat and is overweight. I don't think the general overweight population suffers from an eating disorder. I think they suffer from too many Big Macs, Large Fries With That, a Side Order of Onion Rings and a Diet Coke.


This I do agree with it being the "general population."

You know I think it might just be better if I step back for a minute, I'm agreeing and disagreeing at the same time.

[Tweet]

I think that people who suffer from anorexia are mentally ill and out of control. Same with bulimia. I don't think Oprah suffers from either. Look at the general population... most are like Oprah. They like food and eat too much of it.


She's explained many times that it's more than that. It's had to do with using it as comfort and as a shield because of severe sexual assault as a little girl. It goes beyond simply just loving food, for her.

As for addiction, it's really too bad that you or anyone else thinks it has a thing to do with willpower. But, you're lucky that you don't understand. It obviously has not touched you personally enough for you to be forced to understand it. It's just a shame that you're wrong and as a result, offend others with your naivete.

[Tweet]

I addressed this...


I missed it then.

[Tweet]

And no, Tweet, I'm not anorexic, but I have friends who are and were. Thanks for asking.


I was not asking. It was a rhetorical question. I'm not sure what relevance your point has . Varying degrees of addiction..and ?

[KaraJ]

I was not asking. It was a rhetorical question. I'm not sure what relevance your point has . Varying degrees of addiction..and ?

I know. I was pointing out that I am aware of the seriousness of anorexia and other eating disorders.

[bocarioja]

I missed it then.

Here

I resent that Oprah thinks she is like me. She can afford her help. While it isn't a cure, it's a start on the road to recovery.

I resent that others think that my problems are the same as Oprah's. SHe doesn't face self loathing when she writes a check.

I never said that I have zero sympathy

While I do not know for a fact that she doesn't face loathing when writing a $125 dollar check, I'll make the leap and assume that it doesn't mean she has to cut back in other areas of her life. She is worth 800 million?

Here

People like Oprah can focus 100% on their health, getting better, and staying better. If they slip up, they can wash rinse repeat.

The rest of us have to wonder how to pay for it. It is a HUGE burden that does not help the recovery process.

Some may feel that its easier to be sick. I know I've felt that a lot recently.


and here

[/QUOTE]
Judy, while I do not wish her failure, I see her as having distinct advantages helping in her fight her battles. While not a cure, I still do not feel sorry for her. I sympathize with her battle. I understand it. I can relate, thus I can sympathize...But I do not feel sorry.

I feel sorry for people who have no chance of ever getting the help they need.


I have to go to bed now.

[Tweet]

Whatever, karaj. I don't understand anything you say half the time and then you back pedal like mad when asked to clarify. I give up trying to "get" you.

Anyway. We really can't judge Oprah's issues with weight, can we? All any of us know is what she's said in the media. We know she was sexually assaulted as a child. We know she's used food to deal with it. But other than that, we don't know how helpful her chefs,therapists, or trainers are. I'm not so sure she's looking for sympathy or approval or anything of that nature. It seems to me that she's trying to be a voice for those of us that have used substances to deal with painful pasts. And maybe she's so public about it because it helps her to be accountable to herself. Who really knows?

[Tweet]

Well, boca, I'm sorry that you think her money makes her suffering and self loathing or struggles easier..better..not as severe. I just think you're wrong. You actually don't sound like you have an ounce of sympathy for her. Instead you sound bitter and upset about the fact that she dare breathe a word about it because after all, she's got a trainer..help is EASY. That's unfortunate. I also missed where anyone in this thread, or Oprah herself asked to feel *sorry* for her.

[WalkingTittyBar]

I havent read this whole thread because its just too damn long and I dont have the time or patience to do so. But my thoughts on Oprahs struggle with her weight just shows that she is human. She has a problem and no amount of money, trainers, chefs, etc can change that.

[bocarioja]

Well, boca, I'm sorry that you think her money makes her suffering and self loathing or struggles easier..better..not as severe. I just think you're wrong. You actually don't sound like you have an ounce of sympathy for her. Instead you sound bitter and upset about the fact that she dare breathe a word about it because after all, she's got a trainer..help is EASY. That's unfortunate. I also missed where anyone in this thread, or Oprah herself asked to feel *sorry* for her.

Well, You're wrong...

I have maintained through this thread that MONEY makes ACCESS to TREATMENT easier though It ISN"T a CURE.

Suffering easier... better...? I have no idea what she is feeling emotionally. Nor do you have any idea what I have struggled with.

I'm sorry that you're mad because you think I have zero sympathy. Its not true.

[Tweet]

I'm not mad at all. It's also not such a leap for it to come across as if you think she has it easier because she has all this money for all of this access to treatment. You said yourself that you resent it being said that her struggles are like yours. That says to me that you think her struggles with weight are easier because she's got money. I just disagree. I don't think her money is a factor at all. It seems obvious to me that at the end of the day, she struggles with things like the rest of us do, money or not.

It would be like me looking at a very wealthy person that has an addiction to crystal meth ( my drug of choice many moons ago) and thinking that they weren't in the same boat because after all, they've got money for top notch rehab. It's just not been my experience that that's true. That's why I disagree with your view.

And I still haven't seen where Oprah or anyone else has said she needed people to feel sorry for her.

[JudyJudyJudy]

And I still haven't seen where Oprah or anyone else has said she needed people to feel sorry for her.
Nor have I. I in no way got that idea from the things she was quoted as saying in the article.

[Meredith]

Nothing is necessarily "bad" about the statement. She is accepting responsibility for her own actions. Nor do I think there was anything bad about what I would say to her.

I do think that she is seeking sympathy from people because of this "falling off the wagon" and there are many there to give it to her. I can't be 100% sympathetic for someone who

1. has been through this publicly dozens of times
2. is educated on the consequences of her actions
3. has access to dozens of experts at any moment to help her in any way she needs.
4. touts 'healthy living' shows with Doctors giving all sorts of advice while behind the scenes not living her own doctrine...

I want her to be successful, but, when will she "fall off the wagon" and ask for more sympathy all over again?


You are a much more generous person than I in your empathy.

All of those things that you listed are very typical of an addiction relapse. I struggle with several different addictions, including food, so I can certainly empathize. Food addiction is one of the most difficult to handle since we have to consume food to survive, so you can't just eliminate it.

No amount of money, support, professional help, or treatment can take away an addiction. An addict is always an addict. One can stop being a user, but you can't stop being an addict. Every day is a struggle and a battle. It gets easier with time, but it's still there, and all it takes is a moment of weakness to mess up that discipline. It doesn't matter if you have the money for all of the professional support. No amount of money can build an impregnable wall around you that can't be broken in a moment of weakness.

Hopefully, with the right kind of treatment/therapy/support, that discipline will be strong enough to fight off the temptation. There's no guarantee, though. You just do the best that you can.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

There is something that separates people who have anorexia or are majorly obese, from the "average" person who simply struggles with their weight.

Do you all agree? Or do you think it is all the same? Because the ones taking the offense are the ones on the extreme side of the fence and not the middle ground. Or at least, that is what I am perceiving.

I'm at a perfectly healthy weight for my height (three months postpartum, even) and I was offended by your wording. Perhaps it's the tone that you know everything, including the medical and emotional psyche of Oprah.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I just wasn't making myself clear. I wasn't referring to Anorexia or Bulimia either. I was referring to the sometimes less serious addiction to food where some tend to overindulge in unhealthy food and don't exercise. Though all real addictions are serious, some aren't are serious as others, is what I was trying to say.

The problem is that what you later insist that you were trying to say is quite different then what you originally said. And then there's the post-apologetic reversal to agree with Zanie.

[bocarioja]

Getting treatment is part of any addiction treatment? Right?

While technically, it's possible for one to overcome an addiction on his/her own, but success in making long term progress is a lot less likely without support... right?

NO where did I say that money made Oprah's addiction itself easier to overcome.

Again, and I'm getting tired of repeating this: I have maintained through this thread that MONEY makes ACCESS to TREATMENT easier though It ISN"T a CURE.

I feel sorry and have MORE sympathy for those who have no access to the help they need to get better.

Oprah may not be outright asking for people to feel sorry for her, but by going public with her admissions of "Not taking care of herself" like here

"When it comes to maintaining my health I didn't just fall off the wagon. I let the wagon fall on me," the chairwoman of Harpo Inc. writes. "I didn't follow my own fundamental rule of taking care of self first."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/09/oprah-im-mad-at-myself-im_n_149512.html


In my eyes this is a plea for others not to judge, but rather, feel sorrow. I see a difference in feeling sympathy and feeling sorry for her.

Feeling sorry: Being apologetic for her situation or to show and share in sorrow.

Sympathy: I can relate to the struggle with addiction and wish her well.

I do not feel sorry, but I do sympathize. If others find offense in that, there is nothing else I can say.

[Bohemian]

Getting treatment is part of any addiction treatment? Right?

While technically, it's possible for one to overcome an addiction on his/her own, but success in making long term progress is a lot less likely without support... right?

NO where did I say that money made Oprah's addiction itself easier to overcome.

Again, and I'm getting tired of repeating this:

I have maintained through this thread that MONEY makes ACCESS to TREATMENT easier though It ISN"T a CURE.

I feel sorry and have MORE sympathy for those who have no access to the help they need to get better.

Oprah may not be outright asking for people to feel sorry for her, but by going public with her admissions of "Not taking care of herself" like here



In my eyes this is a plea for others not to judge, but rather, feel sorrow. I see a difference in feeling sympathy and feeling sorry for her.

Feeling sorry: Being apologetic for her situation or to show and share in sorrow.

Sympathy: I can relate to the struggle with addiction and wish her well.

I do not feel sorry, but I do sympathize. If others find offense in that, there is nothing else I can say.


I totally get the point you are trying to make Boca in the bolded part and I agree with that 100%. Honestly though, I don't see much difference in feeling sorry or sympathetic. I have both those feelings towards her struggles.

I agree with you that with her resources she is not exactly the same as the average American trying to lose weight without the resources. I do think she battles some of the same mental issues as the average American. (for instance dealing with the severe sexual abuse she suffered as a child)That right there helps me to understand how she might be going through some of the same emotional trauma as the average American, despite her money and her resources.

[still_me]

Originally Posted by zanie View Post
There is something that separates people who have anorexia or are majorly obese, from the "average" person who simply struggles with their weight.

Do you all agree? Or do you think it is all the same? Because the ones taking the offense are the ones on the extreme side of the fence and not the middle ground. Or at least, that is what I am perceiving.


I don't think I'm being extreme in my views. I've seen addiction and I think that it is more real and common than people would like to think. It is easy to say to someone "Do this" or 'I've seen them or talked to them and their addiction seems like it can be handled'

I couldn't tell you how many times I thought 'why did he even pick up a drink or a needle? Didn't he know that was dangerous?' But you know what? Nobody starts off thinking they'll become addicted to anything. They think they can control it. So no matter what it is, when it changes how your body functions, I believe it is harder to kick.


If you were talking about "extreme side of the fence" being personal, well I have to say, I'm going to pop your bubble. I'm 5'5 3/4" and weigh 138lbs. I'm at a pretty good weight. I'm am focusing on those 8lbs though. They'll be gone by the New Year.

[still_me]

The problem is that what you later insist that you were trying to say is quite different then what you originally said. And then there's the post-apologetic reversal to agree with Zanie.


*sigh* This. I couldn't figure out how to word it and then started second guessing myself, but Sasha said it perfectly.

[KaraJ]

I'm about 135 lbs at 5'2. I still feel fat (wore a size 4 as a young adult, before getting preggo). I'm pregnant again though, so I'm just trying to maintain my weight rather than loose it.

[still_me]

I'm about 135 lbs at 5'2. I still feel fat (wore a size 4 as a young adult, before getting preggo). I'm pregnant again though, so I'm just trying to maintain my weight rather than loose it.


That is a healthier attitude to have. Maintain what you have and then focus on just doing it even better. I swear that obsessing over weight makes me gain more.

[KaraJ]

*sigh* This. I couldn't figure out how to word it and then started second guessing myself, but Sasha said it perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by still_me View Post
Oh what they hey.



Karaj, You apologized for me because of the whole willpower thing and then turned right around and agreed with Zanie when she said basically the same thing as you did about willpower, but with more words.

So either you stand by what you said to me, or you just took a crap on the apology that you gave to me.
KaraJ:
Then I misunderstood Zanie's quote. I thought she was merely saying that perhaps Oprah doesn't have an addiction at all, and just likes to eat a lot, and hates exercise (don't we all?).


This is what I wrote in response (see above). I meant exactly what I said, but if you'd prefer to throw my apology back in my face, fine.

[zanie]

YOu know I really want to jump in and discuss this but I don't think I can stay calm.

There's food addiction.
There's simple flat out laziness and food tastes good.
There's anorexia and bulemia.

While reading this and being halfway through, my DD came out and said "No one is ever going to be able to convince me I'm not fat. I weigh "X amount"" And now I sit here wondering how I can help her without turning her into me, and trying to figure out what I want to say here in a rational manner.

Kara and Zanie, you just simply don't have a clue.Whoa. Wait. Your three little labels there. Are you saying that is what you think? Well, that's exactly what I've been saying, so why are you so distraught?

There are young girls who will say "I'm fat" and it will be an issue with them for always. But it won't consume them, it won't be a priority in their lives. Then there are others who will say "I'm fat" and something will click in their brains and at some point, it will destroy them.

There IS a difference. There is a line between what I am talking about, and it may be a fine line, but there is a line.

Most women ARE the first one. They eat half a cake, feel bad, go to sleep, and then have too many eggs the next day. Sure, they may feel bad, but they aren't running stairs or spitting into their hands to get rid of their calories. They aren't cutting themselves or inflicting pain to try and get the demons out of their head.

The people I'm talking about, is the general population, that just overeats and doesn't exercise. I get the feeling ALL of them are getting an excuse in the name of a mental problem or because they have some deep seeded mental issues.

Is that true?

I've admitted I don't know how extreme Oprah's case is.

But I will tell you this. Most of the time, when you talk with an overweight person, who eats too much and doesn't want to exercise, the first thing out of their mouths is... "Oh, you don't KNOW me, you don't KNOW the struggles I have, you don't understand." Well, yeah, I do understand that you are making excuses... which is the very same issue you have with your overeating. I imagine it covers other areas of your life as well.

I've made it clear that there are two different issues here and I do think we agree on that. Those that have the power to change and those that just don't.

It's a fine line? Is it? A true anorexic cannot be helped until she decides to change. And it may be in her case that she just cannot. It will lead to her ultimate death.

Many girls have a bout or two with anorexia, and then continue on with normal weight and lives not manipulated by bad thoughts.

I also think those with addictions, hate others with their same addiction twice as much as the average person, because they see themselves.

And Tweet, screaming that people don't understand, just because they don't agree with you, doesn't make any sense to me. I think the problem is that you don't want people to disagree with you, rather than admit they might know something as well and just choose another path to deal with things than you do.

[KaraJ]

That is a healthier attitude to have. Maintain what you have and then focus on just doing it even better. I swear that obsessing over weight makes me gain more.

My mom and sisters were always very careful about their weight. Me, not so much. I was "the fat kid" of the family, and I still sometimes have bitter feelings about it. I mean, a size 4? I was fat in a size 4, though if I was lucky, I could sometimes fit into a size 2. THAT was fat, as a teen.
Now, I'm lucky if I can fit into size 4 maternity clothes, though it's usually a size 6 or 8. :P

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Nobody starts off thinking they'll become addicted to anything. They think they can control it.

Exactly. If it were as easy as having "willpower" there wouldn't be addictions that kill people.

[zanie]

I don't think I'm being extreme in my views. I've seen addiction and I think that it is more real and common than people would like to think. It is easy to say to someone "Do this" or 'I've seen them or talked to them and their addiction seems like it can be handled'

I couldn't tell you how many times I thought 'why did he even pick up a drink or a needle? Didn't he know that was dangerous?' But you know what? Nobody starts off thinking they'll become addicted to anything. They think they can control it. So no matter what it is, when it changes how your body functions, I believe it is harder to kick.


If you were talking about "extreme side of the fence" being personal, well I have to say, I'm going to pop your bubble. I'm 5'5 3/4" and weigh 138lbs. I'm at a pretty good weight. I'm am focusing on those 8lbs though. They'll be gone by the New Year.There's the key: Nobody starts off thinking they'll become addicted to anything. Good statement. BUT, therein is the discussion I'm having (with myself at this point, no doubt :) )... There is a line between those that become addicted and those that do not. I've been referring to those that do not.

Is there a difference?

How will you lose 8 pounds in less than a month? To what extreme will you go? And if the weight isn't off, will that consume your days?

To say that willpower doesn't play a role in this... well, it HAS to. If it does with those less extreme, wouldn't it also in more extreme cases?

[zanie]

Exactly. If it were as easy as having "willpower" there wouldn't be addictions that kill people.Then what is it that KEEPS everyone from dying of their addictions? Because obviously some DO fight and win the battle. What is that? If it isn't willpower, what is it?

[KaraJ]

Then what is it that KEEPS everyone from dying of their addictions? Because obviously some DO fight and win the battle. What is that? If it isn't willpower, what is it?

That would be my question, cause I'm confused at this point. Willpower doesn't always work (obviously), but doesn't it have to in some situations.
Again, I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or be self righteous, I'm just trying to understand. Expressing myself well isn't a characteristic of mine, unfortunately, though I'm trying to change that.

[still_me]

There's the key: Nobody starts off thinking they'll become addicted to anything. Good statement. BUT, therein is the discussion I'm having (with myself at this point, no doubt :) )... There is a line between those that become addicted and those that do not. I've been referring to those that do not.

Is there a difference?

How will you lose 8 pounds in less than a month? To what extreme will you go? And if the weight isn't off, will that consume your days?

To say that willpower doesn't play a role in this... well, it HAS to. If it does with those less extreme, wouldn't it also in more extreme cases?

For me it will take me eating more protein and less carbs. I have to make sure I drink more water and I'll turbo Jam everyday for 20 mins. Maybe I'll have 3lbs to go by the New Year, but I'll still be closer to my goal then, than I am now. And I'll continue to do Turbo Jams because I love it and really 20 mins a day is doable.

I'm lost at where you think I don't believe willpower has a part in kicking a habit. I've stated all along that willpower plus help, support, treatment is necessary, whether it be for a habit or addiction.

Now, with me, I have a thing about addiction. If I see myself being addicted to anything unhealthy or remotely unhealthy, and I mean anything, I quit doing it. It is a result from being raised by an addict. I refuse to let anything control my actions. So, my willpower might not always be there. Realistically I could have worked out through my period TMI :), but I didn't. I'm human though and not really worried about the 8lbs as much as getting my body healthy and seeing if I can get my heart under control myself instead of going on meds.

[still_me]

That would be my question, cause I'm confused at this point. Willpower doesn't always work (obviously), but doesn't it have to in some situations.
Again, I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or be self righteous, I'm just trying to understand. Expressing myself well isn't a characteristic of mine, unfortunately, though I'm trying to change that.



Of course it has to in some situations. No one is saying it has to be one way. Things would be so much easier if it all was truly that black and white.

Willpower and a love for the child I was carrying made me quit smoking. I've been smoke free for 5 years now. For my dad it was deaths door, a very real possibility at jail time, his place of work for 20 some years saying enough, and losing his family that made him quit. Willpower came into play once he sought treatment and buckled down with a lot of professional help. I mean a lot and some of the best treatment in the country. Even though he as been drug and alcohol free for 4 years, he battles it everyday. I still have conversations with him when he is low. Sometimes the roles are reversed and my sisters and I have to be the parent for him because we walked with him before.


ETA: And again, someone can have a whole heap of willpower, but their body can be against them. Have you ever seen somebody go through a withdrawal? It is horrible, and at times down right scary. No amount of willpower can stop what they body does during that time and seeing that helps you understand that even when they weren't withdrawing, they had a finger hold's worth of control on the addiction. Addiction takes over the body and eventually the person's mind.

As weird as it sounds, watch Celebrity Rehab online or on VH1. It shows no matter how much the person wants to change, their mind is sick.

[still_me]

Karaj, I didn't mean to throw your apology back in your face. I went back and read what you did with your perspective and I see where you were coming from.

ETA: I'm sorry I made you feel that way.

[zanie]

That would be my question, cause I'm confused at this point. Willpower doesn't always work (obviously), but doesn't it have to in some situations.
Again, I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or be self righteous, I'm just trying to understand. Expressing myself well isn't a characteristic of mine, unfortunately, though I'm trying to change that.Please be thoughtful of this. Most of the time, they call you on on stuff NOT because of HOW you say it, but because of WHAT you say. Don't believe them for a New York minute that it has anything to do with your delivery... it is your opinions... they don't like 'em. :)

I've seen people come on this board, with opposing beliefs and basically be burned at the stake, just because. Sure, they like to pretend it is because you are harsh or self-righteous, or a multitude of other faults. But it's only because they want you to shut up because they don't like your opinion.

But, there are some good souls here as well... all sides of the spectrum. Just don't compromise to fit in here. Which is another thing that puzzles me, but I guess that is for a different thread.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Then what is it that KEEPS everyone from dying of their addictions? Because obviously some DO fight and win the battle. What is that? If it isn't willpower, what is it?


The same thing that makes one person who is born into poverty work hard and become a millionaire while another person who is born into poverty works hard and stays poor.

No two situations, no two people, are the same.

[KaraJ]

Please be thoughtful of this. Most of the time, they call you on on stuff NOT because of HOW you say it, but because of WHAT you say. Don't believe them for a New York minute that it has anything to do with your delivery... it is your opinions... they don't like 'em. :)

I've seen people come on this board, with opposing beliefs and basically be burned at the stake, just because. Sure, they like to pretend it is because you are harsh or self-righteous, or a multitude of other faults. But it's only because they want you to shut up because they don't like your opinion.

But, there are some good souls here as well... all sides of the spectrum. Just don't compromise to fit in here. Which is another thing that puzzles me, but I guess that is for a different thread.


Oh, I understand that completely. But I still felt bad that I wasn't specific enough in my first post (it was like, 4 words) and upset Still_me.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Please be thoughtful of this. Most of the time, they call you on on stuff NOT because of HOW you say it, but because of WHAT you say. Don't believe them for a New York minute that it has anything to do with your delivery... it is your opinions... they don't like 'em. :)

Yes, that's it. The fact that other people with different opinions are able to debate respectfully is unimportant. Just focus on the idea that you are being wronged by the Big Bad Board Meanies.

[KaraJ]

Yes, that's it. The fact that other people with different opinions are able to debate respectfully is unimportant. Just focus on the idea that you are being wronged by the Big Bad Board Meanies.

Your a fine one to say this. You are anything but respectful.
*waits to hear excuses...*

[still_me]

Your a fine one to say this. You are anything but respectful.
*waits to hear excuses...*


Actually, Sasha has been really respectful towards me and I'd like to think I can count her as a friend. We have different opinions on somethings and align just fine on others. Yes, she can call names and get mad, but it usually is for things like, bigotry, or unfairness.

I believe that you don't have to agree with someone in order to respect their opinion. Sometimes people here fail to do that, but the majority of the time, it happens just fine. It isn't until a thread pops up once a week or so ;) that it comes out. 90% of the time there is peace.

[zanie]

The same thing that makes one person who is born into poverty work hard and become a millionaire while another person who is born into poverty works hard and stays poor.

No two situations, no two people, are the same.And what is that thing? Because some people have it, some people don't, some have a lot and some have a little.

[still_me]

And what is that thing? Because some people have it, some people don't, some have a lot and some have a little.


Riddle me this... If anyone knew they'd be bottling it up and selling it. I've watched people work their fingers to the bone to support their great grandchildren. Sometimes life isn't so blissful and blessings come in different disguises.

[KaraJ]

Actually, Sasha has been really respectful towards me and I'd like to think I can count her as a friend. We have different opinions on somethings and align just fine on others. Yes, she can call names and get mad, but it usually is for things like, bigotry, or unfairness.

I believe that you don't have to agree with someone in order to respect their opinion. Sometimes people here fail to do that, but the majority of the time, it happens just fine. It isn't until a thread pops up once a week or so ;) that it comes out. 90% of the time there is peace.

Well, I'm glad you can get along fine with her. I tried that and it didn't work so well.
The problem with "bigotry" and "unfairness" is that everyone has a slightly or not so slightly different view from each other as to what that may mean.
I also feel that people can and should respect each others opinions even if they differ. But I don't see that happen very much.
People here are all for tolerance and peace unless you disagree with their views, then it's blood and warfare.

[zanie]

Yes, that's it. The fact that other people with different opinions are able to debate respectfully is unimportant. Just focus on the idea that you are being wronged by the Big Bad Board Meanies.Oh, I could care less about the board meanies. I'm a board meanie. I just hate to see people that are really trying to be genuine, made out to be something they are not.

I saw that with someone else here, gigi maybe? I'm not sure if that is correct. She apologized until her heart fell out and I think she was misjudged. I see that happening with Karaj as well.

[KaraJ]

Oh, I could care less about the board meanies. I'm a board meanie. I just hate to see people that are really trying to be genuine, made out to be something they are not.

I saw that with someone else here, gigi maybe? I'm not sure if that is correct. She apologized until her heart fell out and I think she was misjudged. I see that happening with Karaj as well.


I don't count, Zanie. I'm a hateful bigot that doesn't deserve human decency. ;)

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I don't think that it is *a* thing. Life is complex. People are complex. Some have suffered more abuse. Some are more sensitive. Some are leaders. Some are followers. Some have more support. Some have less. Some have this reason for starting whatever their addictive behavior is, some have that reason. Some are genetically predisposed to addictive behavior, others are not.

It's not that person A is stronger and can therefore overcome addiction while person B cannot. It seems impossible, to me, to compare.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

I see it differently, Zanie. I see Karaj come onto threads constantly with guns blazing, then apologizing, then claiming that she didn't understand/was misunderstood, then eventually moving full circle to her original thought but phrased differently.

She can point fingers at me all that she wishes. Whatever. I own my words, whether they are popular or not. It's her who is constantly readjusting what she thinks she wants to say and blaming others for not understanding what she meant to say instead of what she actually said.

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

Well, I'm glad you can get along fine with her. I tried that and it didn't work so well.
The problem with "bigotry" and "unfairness" is that everyone has a slightly or not so slightly different view from each other as to what that may mean.
I also feel that people can and should respect each others opinions even if they differ. But I don't see that happen very much.
People here are all for tolerance and peace unless you disagree with their views, then it's blood and warfare.

Oh bullshit. You little liar. Your first big debate here you accused me of being a bad mother with horrible little beastie children. Blood and warfare, indeed.

I have commented helpfully on every.single.thread you've posted about needlefelting or other craft ideas.

But whatever. Continue with your verbal acrobatics.

[KaraJ]

I see it differently, Zanie. I see Karaj come onto threads constantly with guns blazing, then apologizing, then claiming that she didn't understand/was misunderstood, then eventually moving full circle to her original thought but phrased differently.

She can point fingers at me all that she wishes. Whatever. I own my words, whether they are popular or not. It's her who is constantly readjusting what she thinks she wants to say and blaming others for not understanding what she meant to say instead of what she actually said.

I don't recall using "guns." I merely stated my opinion, got tarred and feathered for it, went back and reread what I wrote, and decided that I should apologize to Still_me (not you, take note), because I happened to not write out fully what I was trying to say. That's it. That's all.

[KaraJ]

Oh bullshit. You little liar. Your first big debate here you accused me of being a bad mother with horrible little beastie children. Blood and warfare, indeed.

I have commented helpfully on every.single.thread you've posted about needlefelting or other craft ideas.

But whatever. Continue with your verbal acrobatics.
Your remembering something I don't. When and where did I say that? Topic matter?

[Sashahomeschoolmama]

No need for notes. I was not a part of this thread, nor do I wish for an apology from you. That would mean that I value your opinion, which I do not.

[KaraJ]

Oh bullshit. You little liar. Your first big debate here you accused me of being a bad mother with horrible little beastie children. Blood and warfare, indeed.

I have commented helpfully on every.single.thread you've posted about needlefelting or other craft ideas.

But whatever. Continue with your verbal acrobatics.
And this I appreciate, really, I do. But I found it strange you were actually being helpful since you certainly don't make a habit of doing so when you disagree with me on matters. Call me a b****, fine. Whatever. That's a helpful comment.

[KaraJ]

No need for notes. I was not a part of this thread, nor do I wish for an apology from you. That would mean that I value your opinion, which I do not.

This is a relief for both of us. From what little I know of you (which I'll admit is not much, not knowing you in person) I'd be doing something wrong if you valued my opinion.

[still_me]

And this I appreciate, really, I do. But I found it strange you were actually being helpful since you certainly don't make a habit of doing so when you disagree with me on matters. Call me a b****, fine. Whatever. That's a helpful comment.


Maybe she was being helpful because she doesn't hate people with a different opinion than hers. Perhaps, their words don't mean much when it comes to personal things compared to someone she is close to. OR maybe Sasha doesn't feel the need to find approval from anyone, for anything. There are people like that in the world. So, in the end, she can be nice to you and help you, but not be a buddy.

And this comment:

This is a relief for both of us. From what little I know of you (which I'll admit is not much, not knowing you in person) I'd be doing something wrong if you valued my opinion.

Really? Do you really value everyone's opinion? Does everyone have to value yours? And it doesn't come down to your actions or believes. It comes down to general respect, KWIM? I'm not saying you and Sasha have to have it, but I don't see why you would be doing something wrong if she valued your opinion. It comes across as you would be doing something horrible if she valued your opinion. Which can come across as I'm better than you...

[Michele]

I am only on page 3, and while I agree that Oprah is taken and takes herself far too seriously, I understand her weight struggle and I think it is a good thing she talks about it. However, I think she has always had an unhealthy attitude towards her weight and it has been an obsession. I recall her saying that she had to work out 2 or more hours a day to maintain a certain "goal" weight and used to starve herself at times. Not cool.

I really feel that fat or thin, if you eat a healthy variety of foods and take moderate exercise daily (30 minutes vigorous and 30 or more light--housework, walking, playing, etc) you are better off than stressing about a number on a scale. For myself, I am a few pounds over the dreaded "200" mark, but I work out 5 times a week, eat lots of fruits and veggies, and my blood work and blood pressure are all really good. I am the thinnest of all the women on my father's side of the family only because I work out and eat well. I don't think I will ever see 160 on a scale unless I starve myself like Oprah did and I am unwilling to set that example for my girls. I want my girls to know that eating right and exercising are important and I want them to have very positive body images. Growing up, my mother was always and still does say she is fat and that she hates her body and herself. As a young child and a teen that always bothered me and I refused to let that kind of message impact my girls.

Oprah should learn to love her lady lumps and continue to make use of her personal chef and trainer to eat well and exercise so she can be lower her cholesterol, lower her blood pressure, and manage stress.

[Nursh]

See Boca, that's where I think you don't understand. Addiction is not something that can be "beaten". You don't just wake up one day after not using your drug of choice and all of a sudden you are not an addict anymore. Your disease is still inside of you. Waiting for a moment of vulnerability. A split second to break through your defenses. Which is why a good support group is really important. However, it is not a cure. There is no cure for the disease of addiction.

Yes she makes a decision every time she brings that fork to her lips. But I can tell you from experience that she probably really doesn't want to do it, she feels like she HAS to do it.That without that piece of cake or bowl of ice cream or whatever it is, she will be empty inside. And will have to deal with whatever it is she is running from.

I agree 100%.

[Wildflower]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6423624

Sorry, I thought I posted a link.

IMO, I do think she's asking for sympathy. I also think she is publicing this struggle to try and sell more magazines.

Weight gain is something that so many people feel self loathing towards, and most do not the means as she does to get proper support. Hell, people struggle anymore just to see a doc in general.

I really hate this attitude. Generally speaking, you lose weight by eating less/exercise more. There is nothing that can do EITHER of those things for you. You cannot buy self-control or motivation. Yes, it's easier if you have a $100,000+ personal gym, trainers, chefs - sure. But you can have all that and still crave a pizza or just simply LOVE to eat. You can have all that and HATE to work out. On the other hand, you can be dirt poor and go out and walk or run for FREE and buying less food is not only free, but saves money.

Unlike many things that the rich can do that the poor can't compete with (hair, makeup, facelifts - things that cost a TON of money to upkeep), diet and exercise are cheap. But the WILL to do either cannot be bought. (I guess I'm repeating myself now)

[RaisingThemLeft]

I agree with you *completely* Wildflower. That was my point some pages back. I don't get making this about money at ALL. Unlike so many advantages that the rich have over the rest of us, I don't see this as being one. Sure you can run in head to toe Nike rather than old sweats but that isn't going to make you lose more weight. The times I have had the most sucess with losing weight it's had absolutely nothing to do with how much money we were making and everything to do with my frame of mind.

[Tweet]

Getting treatment is part of any addiction treatment? Right?

While technically, it's possible for one to overcome an addiction on his/her own, but success in making long term progress is a lot less likely without support... right?

NO where did I say that money made Oprah's addiction itself easier to overcome.

Again, and I'm getting tired of repeating this:

I feel sorry and have MORE sympathy for those who have no access to the help they need to get better.

Oprah may not be outright asking for people to feel sorry for her, but by going public with her admissions of "Not taking care of herself" like here



In my eyes this is a plea for others not to judge, but rather, feel sorrow. I see a difference in feeling sympathy and feeling sorry for her.

Feeling sorry: Being apologetic for her situation or to show and share in sorrow.

Sympathy: I can relate to the struggle with addiction and wish her well.

I do not feel sorry, but I do sympathize. If others find offense in that, there is nothing else I can say.

I'm not offended nor am I angry. I am just disagreeing that she is asking for sorrow. I think you're way off base, actually. But no, I'm not offended or angry about your opinion.And you didn't need to repeat yourself; I understood what you said. I just disagreed . To me, thus far in the thread, you do not seem to show sympathy. I understand that you say you do..it just didn't come across that way. That seems to happen easily enough in this medium ,though, and I believe what you say.

[Tweet]

Oh, please, Zanie. Right here in this thread people are disagreeing with each other respectively. It isn't just about Karaj's "different" opinions, although she's had some really hateful ones. Anyone half paying attention can see how she operates and it does get tiresome. Pretty much everyone is in agreement about it and it's not because we're all liberal board assholes. Conservative folks here think little of her hateful opinions as well. And her backpedaling. And her victimizing herself. When she makes sense and owns her words, people chat with her just fine.

[NewMum]

I just got this January's issue of O.
The essay referred to is in there.
After reading it, I do not think she's asking for pity, sympathy or anything else.
She explains that the weight thing is not the real issue, it's about love, and about balance in her life.
She admits, "Food is my drug of choice."
She also says that even after trying medications and switching doctors, it all came down to will.
She goes on to say that "My goal isn't to be thin. My goal is for my body to be the weight it can hold-to be strong and healthy and fit, to be itself. My goal is to learn to embrace this body and to be grateful every day for what it has given me."

She fell off the wagon, and is now starting over. She's making a resolution to be healthy.
I don't think being public about it, especially when you're in the public eye anyway, means you want sympathy, or for people to feel sorry for you.

Now for me to scrape up the will to do the same.. : p

[HammBugga]

I don't think it's about sympathy either. It's the first of the twelve steps "We admitted we were powerless over {insert whatever here}—that our lives had become unmanageable."

It's about being honest and facing it. And her saying food is her drug of choice is admitting she is an addict. Not just a fat chick who likes cake like Zanie keeps saying.

[NewMum]

If anything, I think she's sharing her story to inspire people to take responsibility for themselves. I think she's doing this for herself, but at the same time, to inform and help others to do the same.

ETA: It's hard to judge just by a news article and little blips from and interview or a tv show.

[Tweet]

I agree with that, New Mum and Hamm.

[Michele]

Hamm, you are being SOOOOO unfair to Zanie. I mean, I am a fat chick who likes cake. And I want pity for it. I am currently sans cake and I am sad. :(

And, good for Oprah being ready to accept her body and work hard to keep it healthy--without focusing on being "thin".

[zanie]

I don't think it's about sympathy either. It's the first of the twelve steps "We admitted we were powerless over {insert whatever here}—that our lives had become unmanageable."

It's about being honest and facing it. And her saying food is her drug of choice is admitting she is an addict. Not just a fat chick who likes cake like Zanie keeps saying.It's about being honest and facing it and overcoming it!!!!!!!!!!!! HER OWN WORDS: She also says that even after trying medications and switching doctors, it all came down to will.

Which is what I said in the beginning. She likes to eat. She eats too much. Her own willpower will help her overcome, as it has before. There is nothing magical about saying you have an addiction. IT STILL TAKES WILL TO OVERCOME IT.

Lack of willpower got her in the position she is in now.

[zanie]

Oh, please, Zanie. Right here in this thread people are disagreeing with each other respectively. It isn't just about Karaj's "different" opinions, although she's had some really hateful ones. Anyone half paying attention can see how she operates and it does get tiresome. Pretty much everyone is in agreement about it and it's not because we're all liberal board assholes. Conservative folks here think little of her hateful opinions as well. And her backpedaling. And her victimizing herself. When she makes sense and owns her words, people chat with her just fine.I'd really like to see a list of these conservative folks here who think little of her and see her opinions as hateful. If you can do that, I'll eat my words. No pun intended, considering this thread.

[HammBugga]

Of course you need the will to recover. Who said you didn't? Your BFF Kara said that ALL you need is willpower. Which is complete and utter bullshit.

[Tweet]

Maybe you need to go back and read some of her threads then. Unless you don't know any conservative posters here. But, no, I'm not going to name names. I know who they are and what they've called her on. There's no need to eat your words. You can either see it for yourself or not. shrug. I remember quite a few specifically thinking what she said about drunk women getting raped as being very hateful. She did apologize for it much later, however. But, again, you either see it or you don't. It isn't because she's conservative that she isn't well thought of here.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Getting treatment is part of any addiction treatment? Right?

While technically, it's possible for one to overcome an addiction on his/her own, but success in making long term progress is a lot less likely without support... right?
Honestly, no, I know people who have done it on their own and are still hanging in there 20 years later.




NO where did I say that money made Oprah's addiction itself easier to overcome.

Again, and I'm getting tired of repeating this:

I feel sorry and have MORE sympathy for those who have no access to the help they need to get better.
I can understand feeling MORE sympathy, but you came across earlier as having NO sympathy.


Oprah may not be outright asking for people to feel sorry for her, but by going public with her admissions of "Not taking care of herself" like here



In my eyes this is a plea for others not to judge, but rather, feel sorrow. I see a difference in feeling sympathy and feeling sorry for her.
I disagree.


Feeling sorry: Being apologetic for her situation or to show and share in sorrow.

Sympathy: I can relate to the struggle with addiction and wish her well.

I do not feel sorry, but I do sympathize. If others find offense in that, there is nothing else I can say.
I don't see a huge difference between the two phrases. Even earlier when you made this comment to me: "You are a much more generous person than I in your empathy," it made it sound as though you had NO sympathy for her.

[JudyJudyJudy]

There's the key: Nobody starts off thinking they'll become addicted to anything. Good statement. BUT, therein is the discussion I'm having (with myself at this point, no doubt :) )... There is a line between those that become addicted and those that do not. I've been referring to those that do not.

Is there a difference?

How will you lose 8 pounds in less than a month? To what extreme will you go? And if the weight isn't off, will that consume your days?

To say that willpower doesn't play a role in this... well, it HAS to. If it does with those less extreme, wouldn't it also in more extreme cases?
This is a bit silly. You're asking this of someone who isn't overweight but wants to lose 8 pounds. There is absolutely no comparison here to someone who is obese and has a food addiction. I honestly do hope that Oprah can just learn to accept herself because the seesaw of losing and gaining weight is more unhealthy than simply remaining obese.


Then what is it that KEEPS everyone from dying of their addictions? Because obviously some DO fight and win the battle. What is that? If it isn't willpower, what is it?
If we had the answer to that, perhaps we'd all be millionaires. Willpower, of course, plays a role, but it isn't always enough. What makes a person be unable to stop an addiction even if it does mean death?


I don't think that it is *a* thing. Life is complex. People are complex. Some have suffered more abuse. Some are more sensitive. Some are leaders. Some are followers. Some have more support. Some have less. Some have this reason for starting whatever their addictive behavior is, some have that reason. Some are genetically predisposed to addictive behavior, others are not.

It's not that person A is stronger and can therefore overcome addiction while person B cannot. It seems impossible, to me, to compare.
I agree. It's very complex. When I was in high school and in college, I had the drive and determination to be successful. I was valedictorian and STAR student of my class in high school and also had the highest average in my college graduating class. However, drive and determination wouldn't have been enough if I had not also had the intelligence to go with it. I didn't ask for that intelligence; I was born with it. Unfortunately, though, my health has gone to hell now, so I'm still struggling. Life is not always like a box of chocolates.

[JudyJudyJudy]

This is a relief for both of us. From what little I know of you (which I'll admit is not much, not knowing you in person) I'd be doing something wrong if you valued my opinion.
I greatly value Sasha's opinion, and I feel pretty sure she values mine as well. I certainly don't feel that I'm "doing something wrong."


Oprah should learn to love her lady lumps and continue to make use of her personal chef and trainer to eat well and exercise so she can be lower her cholesterol, lower her blood pressure, and manage stress.
I agree.

[zanie]

This is a bit silly. You're asking this of someone who isn't overweight but wants to lose 8 pounds. There is absolutely no comparison here to someone who is obese and has a food addiction. I honestly do hope that Oprah can just learn to accept herself because the seesaw of losing and gaining weight is more unhealthy than simply remaining obese.

We're talking in circles here. I think we've established that there is a difference between simply being overweight and not having the will to exercise and eat less vs. a more serious food addiction as in anorexia or massive obesity. Correct?

I got flamed for suggesting that Oprah lacked willpower, when I think she has said in her own words, that that indeed was her problem.

Well, when someone suggests they need to loose (... HI HAMM!!) 8 pounds in a month, how can we be so sure there isn't a food addiction there? I doubt that you think there is. If I got flamed for reading Oprah's mind, how come you're not for knowing that the mind of someone who just needs to lose 8 pounds is any more healthy, mentally?

Did I make any sense just then?

[still_me]

This is a bit silly. You're asking this of someone who isn't overweight but wants to lose 8 pounds. There is absolutely no comparison here to someone who is obese and has a food addiction. I honestly do hope that Oprah can just learn to accept herself because the seesaw of losing and gaining weight is more unhealthy than simply remaining obese.

We're talking in circles here. I think we've established that there is a difference between simply being overweight and not having the will to exercise and eat less vs. a more serious food addiction as in anorexia or massive obesity. Correct?

I got flamed for suggesting that Oprah lacked willpower, when I think she has said in her own words, that that indeed was her problem.

Well, when someone suggests they need to loose (... HI HAMM!!) 8 pounds in a month, how can we be so sure there isn't a food addiction there? I doubt that you think there is. If I got flamed for reading Oprah's mind, how come you're not for knowing that the mind of someone who just needs to lose 8 pounds is any more healthy, mentally?

Did I make any sense just then?


First of all, it was me not Hamm. And I can guarantee you that I am not obsessed with loosing 8lbs. It is just a goal. Plain and simple. Just like it is a goal for me to relearn how to breath properly. Loosing it isn't my motivation. Getting my heart stronger is. Making sure I get my boys moving with me in the winter so they don't go stir crazy and get into trouble for just being antsy cooped up boys, is also my motivation.

You still are missing the point. No one here is disagreeing with you that she needs willpower. We just see that she is addicted, when you just see her as fat. There in lies the difference and it is obvious that she has an addiction when she uses the words "drug of choice" and that she battles it.

You are the one arguing a point about willpower that everyone has already agreed upon. She needs some more...along with help, support, and therapy.

[zanie]

Still me... I knew it was you. I was referring to Hamm because I typed "loose" instead of "lose"... on purpose. She was griping about it on another thread.

Ok then, I will stop arguing my point. I felt like the word willpower was mentioned and the proverbial walls of bfdc came crashing down. Perhaps I was mistaken in assuming everyone thought that same way.

[HammBugga]

It wasn't the mere mention of the word "willpower". It was the phrase as a whole.

Willpower is a cure.


But I think you really do know that is what people had a problem with. You just like being deliberately obtuse so you can argue your point.

[rock__]

Why else would she be here? LOL

[zanie]

It wasn't the mere mention of the word "willpower". It was the phrase as a whole.




But I think you really do know that is what people had a problem with. You just like being deliberately obtuse so you can argue your point.And willpower IS a cure. It is the basis of the cure. Without willpower, there ain't gonna be any cure.

YOU just like to pick on her because you enjoy being a bully. :P

[JudyJudyJudy]

This is a bit silly. You're asking this of someone who isn't overweight but wants to lose 8 pounds. There is absolutely no comparison here to someone who is obese and has a food addiction. I honestly do hope that Oprah can just learn to accept herself because the seesaw of losing and gaining weight is more unhealthy than simply remaining obese.

We're talking in circles here. I think we've established that there is a difference between simply being overweight and not having the will to exercise and eat less vs. a more serious food addiction as in anorexia or massive obesity. Correct?
We are not speaking of "just wanting to lose a little weight" when we're talking about Oprah. I don't understand why you can't grasp that. This has been a lifelong struggle for her. She has been at dangerous, very unhealthy weights. She has been up and down with her weight, which is also dangerous. This isn't someone who just wants to lose a few pounds.

[HammBugga]

And willpower IS a cure. It is the basis of the cure. Without willpower, there ain't gonna be any cure.

YOU just like to pick on her because you enjoy being a bully. :P
There ISN'T a cure. There are treatments, but there is no cure. When you are an addict you are always an addict. You always need treatment and you will never be cured.

[zanie]

Why else would she be here? LOLBecause I like debating with you all. Is that so wrong? It's better than reading I Have Methodical Mush Brain.

Ok, I admit, THAT was sh*t-stirring.

Oh, I'm kidding for goodness sakes!

[Tweet]

No, willpower*alone* is not a cure for addiction,Zanie. Recovery from addiction is not based on willpower alone. Which is why I said earlier in the thread that you don't seem to have an understanding of what all is involved with addiction and recovery from addiction. That's okay, not everyone understands it. A lot of people really do think it's black and white. It's not and most things ,imo, aren't.

[zanie]

There ISN'T a cure. There are treatments, but there is no cure. When you are an addict you are always an addict. You always need treatment and you will never be cured.I see this point. I know this. BUT, is there a cure for the woman who always needs to lose 5 pounds? Does she ever lose it? Is she ever happy? Just because it is a little addiction, is it not an addiction? And if a little addiction can be overcome with willpower, can a big one?

Do we draw the line when it becomes a danger to health? I can agree with that.

My opinion on this whole idea is swishing and swaying.

[married_bears]

Then maybe until you button down your actual opinion and can defend it as such you should ask questions instead of making inflammatory statements.

[rock__]

Because I like debating with you all. Is that so wrong? It's better than reading I Have Methodical Mush Brain.

Ok, I admit, THAT was sh*t-stirring.

Oh, I'm kidding for goodness sakes!


:bunny:

;)

[HammBugga]

I see this point. I know this. BUT, is there a cure for the woman who always needs to lose 5 pounds? Does she ever lose it? Is she ever happy? Just because it is a little addiction, is it not an addiction? And if a little addiction can be overcome with willpower, can a big one?

Do we draw the line when it becomes a danger to health? I can agree with that.

My opinion on this whole idea is swishing and swaying.


Ok look... The addiction is not about needing to lose 5 pounds. If someone only needs to lose 5 pounds and can't seem to do it, it is likely an issue of willpower and not an addiction. Because it's not simply about needing to lose weight. It's about the behavior leading up to being overweight. The addiction comes into play when eating becomes a compulsion. Something the person can no longer control.

[Tweet]

Yes, an addiction becomes a severe compulsion..something that gets in the way of typical day to day living. It's an obsession coupled with a compulsion. Bill W defined it as an allergy. Just wanting to lose 5 pounds hasn't got anything to do with it unless it's overtaking the person's life.

eta while there are varying degrees of addiction, number of years, levels of use of said subastance etc, I believe once it crosses into *addiction*, it ceases to be something that is "little" because by it's very definition, it's all encompassing.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I see this point. I know this. BUT, is there a cure for the woman who always needs to lose 5 pounds? Does she ever lose it? Is she ever happy? Just because it is a little addiction, is it not an addiction? And if a little addiction can be overcome with willpower, can a big one?

Do we draw the line when it becomes a danger to health? I can agree with that.

My opinion on this whole idea is swishing and swaying.
There is often, but not always, a difference between an addiction (like to food) and an obsession (like with weight). Either can turn into a big problem.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I do want to add one more thing about Oprah's money and weight problem: Someone mentioned earlier that she is too guruish, and I have to agree. She also listens to other gurus. This is an example of where money can hurt her. Because she can pay money for off-the-wall people, she's not even getting proper treatment for her thyroid (at least based on the last information I read on this). She's consuming lots of soy as a treatment! Soy is known to be a thyroid inhibitor, yet apparently, the dumb fucks she's paying with her money are telling her it's a good idea to load up on that. Perhaps her money is actually contributing to her weight problem in this case.

[Iconoclast]

I can't stand Oprah, never could. I don't care how fat she is, I just wish she would go away. She is waaaaaay too guruish for my tastes, and very self important IMO. Her ego is astounding, comprable only to Donald Trumps.

All that aside, I have only read every other page of this mess, and I agree with comments on both sides of the fence. There are statistically few people who are obese for reasons beyond their control, but most obese people I meet think they are in that small population. I do not get worked up about people's weight issues, but I don't sugar coat (lol) comments about it for them either, just as I do not for drug addicts or alcoholics, etc. Get the help you need to make a change (I'm very happy to refer), or do not, but don't whine about it expecting to be absolved of your responsibility.

[still_me]

Iconoclast, How would you define obese? You are a doctor, right?

[Iconoclast]

20% over ideal body weight