So lost...my son is fussing and won't nurse

[Alexandria]

This is long winded, but I really want to get the whole story across, so I can get a good opinion of what's going on.

I'm a new mom to a 10 week old son, Quinlan. He's been the most amazingly sweet baby, is extremely alert, and aside from sucking in a bit of air, he's been nursing really well.
Around Christmas my extended family had a bout of a stomach virus. They were all ill for a couple days with vomiting, diarrhea, and severe cramps. My husband got it on New Years Eve, but it affected him differently; he never vomited, but has had diarrhea and cramping for about a week. I only had cramping for half of a day. My son, I assumed got it too. He is more gassy than usual, starts crying for 'no reason', and won't sleep well any more.

For the past week it's been getting worse. Every time I start feeding him, he'll nurse for a bit and then pull away and start crying. He's still hungry. If I stimulate or walk around with him he stops crying. As soon as he's horizontal again, he starts screaming. I try burping him to no avail.
Every night he's much worse than during the day. He screams unless we hold him and show him things. He's SO tired and SO hungry that he becomes more difficult to pacify. Eventually he gets too tired to continue, and I can nurse him while he's half asleep for maybe 5 minutes. During the night I stay on my side and nurse him. He's up every hour or so and nurses for 5-10 minutes. The other night he woke up out of a dead sleep just screaming...from pain from hunger?!
He's still wetting diapers, and his stools seem a little watery, but not really diarrhea. He's smiling during the day and seems well hydrated. I just don't like the fact that he doesn't seem to be wanting any hind milk.

Is this because of the virus, a fast let-down reflex, or is he going through a phase or wanting stimulation more than breast milk? My husband's worried it's colic, but I'm not so convinced. I'd assume it was the let-down reflex causing issues if it weren't for the timing in conjunction with the virus going around. Perhaps it's the virus causing a sore stomach and he doesn't want to fill it very much because it starts cramping? It could even be an allergy to the bit of yogurt I eat in a day...
So many possibilities. What do you think?

[intokermit]

It could be a fast let down. It could also be his ears. When my DS has an ear infection, no matter how hungry he is, he doesn't want to nurse. It hurts to bad. I would have him looked at by his pedi just to make sure. Good luck, and great job nursing him! It will get better!

[whitnessforhim]

Here's a good link for you with lots of info on why baby might be fussing at the breast.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

Some babies will pull off the breast soon after let-down if mom has a forceful let-down. Baby may be frustrated by the too-fast flow of milk with let-down. A too-forceful let-down can also cause excessive gas or spitting up/vomiting.

My first thought from what you described is over active letdown or fast let-down. This can be corrected by block nursing, nursing on one side for two or three conscecutive feedings. www.kellymom.com is a fabulous resource for the nursing mom.

Welcome to the boards!

[Alexandria]

From what I've read on those sites it seems like the let-down reflex wouldn't be the problem. He stays latched on for a few minutes and then begins to squirm and grunt and then shake his head and pull away (without unlatching. ouch!) and then eventually lets go and cries. He'll try sucking again in a few moments only to suck once or twice and let go crying again.

[Nipple_nectar]

There are two possibilities that stick in my mind, it certainly could be too much milk (breastfeeding.hypermart.net/toomuchmilk.html) is my guess. What does your other breast do while you are nursing from the other? Does it leak? Does baby ever choke or seem to be gulping?

Does your baby get a pacifier or ever an artificial nipple/bottle? He sounds confused. There is such a thing as nipple confusion (www.breastfeeding.com/all_about/all_about_confusion.html).

Then there is the possibility that it is simply because he is a newborn. Reading the book called Happiest baby on the block by Dr. Harvey Karp, it explains the communication of the infant and gives really good ways of soothing baby. Newborns can be very fickle and fuss over just about anything. It is not uncommon for babies to have a "witching hour" where they become unconsolable simply because they are tired. Fussy evenings (www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html) can be very normal.

Here is also a good link for what to expect in the early weeks (www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing.html).

Then, there is the final possibility of reflux (http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/reflux.html) in baby. This is alot of reading, so feel free to shoot some questions back:)

[Alexandria]

The other breast leaks when I nurse, usually. I do have a pacifier for him, that we weren't really using for a long while. We've given it to him lately to calm his crying and he takes it...I'll swap it for my breast and he'll nurse for a bit and then pull back and cry.


The reflux sounds a little more intense than he's experiencing. He's throwing up more than usual, but it doesn't happen every feeding. Sometimes he's just fine! He loves to lay on his back as well...so I'm not sure reflux is the issue.

Quinlan was really fussy yesterday morning. I try to nurse him and he pulls back, kicks and starts screaming. I sit him up and bounce him until he stops. I lay him back down and he'll scream again. Sometimes he'll latch on for a bit, sometimes he won't. Last night I figured I'd just stimulate him a whole lot when he was crying, because that seems to be what helps him. I did so for a couple hours and he was great. He nursed in small amounts and had a reasonable amount before bed.

Today he's not so easy. I just tried nursing him after a long nap and he did so for a few minutes and then, without warning, started crying and then latched back on about 10 seconds later. Then unlatched completely a minute later and is doing the whole thing again. It's really stressful for me and I start crying because he's crying. I really hope it's just the stomach virus causing this and it'll go away. Usually he lays there for 20-30 minutes nursing without making a peep.

I've got a breast pump and maybe I'll try giving him a bottle and see if he does the same thing? That might rule out breastfeeding issues and show it's just his stomach? I don't know...I don't want to make nipple confusion worse, if that's what it is.

[storehopper]

If it doesn't get better I would try an elimination diet. Start with the 8 most common foods that people are allergic to and then see how it goes.

[whitnessforhim]

If it is nipple confusion, and it could be, I would stop all bottles and just nurse. Offering more bottles will make the problem worse specially sense he seems very willing to nurse but just frustrated with whats happening after he starts nursing. Again from what you keep describing it sounds to be like its a "too much milk" issue.

NN has some good links on reflux for you to read.

Out of curiosity how much do you pump when you do pump if you pump?

[madelsmama]

The fact that he's okay with the exception of being horizontal makes me think it's ear infection-related, which would explain why he's not interested in laying down or sucking at the breast for extended amounts of time. It may also be teething that you're dealing with, which could explain the watery stools (as well could the ear infection).

This seems a bit late in the game for overactive let-down or colic to rear their heads, though reflux and nipple preference are possibilities. And stomach viruses are usually pretty short-lived and don't go on for days and days.

I would proabably go get his ears checked out, and if they're okay, give him some pain relief like teething tabs or tylenol (I believe he's too young for advil, ask his doc).

If problems persist, maybe go the the overactive let-down theory and start block feeding. But block feeding and elimination diet are big steps to take only after all of the other stuff has been ruled out.

Can you get him to your doc today or tomorrow?

I'm sorry this is such a rough time. This sounds like my second baby's personality for the first 3 months. It was horrible. For us, it was related to overactive let-down, but the crying started very early on, like 3 weeks.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/t081600.asp
http://www.drgreene.com/21_774.html

[Alexandria]

Well thank you every one for your replies. I took him to the doctor who said, "there's nothing wrong with him." I then took him to a naturopath who thinks that the stomach virus is still lingering a bit and that it's thrown off all of his intestinal flora. We also cut out wheat, dairy, corn and potatoes. He's stopped pulling off and screaming, but he's still having difficulty staying on the breast. He pulls off 5 minutes into nursing and is certainly still hungry, but he won't eat. I'm really not sure what's going on and I'm going to take him back to the naturopath, I suppose.

I really thought that it was silent reflux after reading into it, but those symptoms subsided, mostly.

I'm just trying to get him to eat for 5 minutes as often as I can.

[madelsmama]

Would you consider trying block nursing? That would be the next step.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:http://www.llli.org/FAQ/oversupply.html

[Alexandria]

I have been block nursing without knowing what it is. I just assumed that he should be completely draining one breast before moving on to the other. He's been that way since birth, though; he never wanted more than one breast. He'd nurse for 20 minutes or so on one breast and he'd be drunk and pass out.
Now that he's only going for five minutes at a time I rarely see that drunk look...I only really see it when he's been freaking out and refusing to nurse for 2-3 hours. Then he'll drink for almost 10 minutes and he'll seem relatively content and his eyes will be heavy. Could it be that he is full after 5 minutes? I know that I have a fast flow and that if he's not calm when feeding he can't keep up with it and gulps in air. He only has one bowel movement per day but many wet diapers. They're not green or frothy, but orange and relatively liquidy.

Is it possible to have an overabundant supply without my breasts feeling full all of the time? My breasts don't ever feel full but I can always get a little something out of them. I even tried taking fenugreek yesterday to see if a more abundant supply would help him nurse longer...but I just ended up with very full breasts last night.

I experience ALL but the last 3 of these oversupply issues, and my nipples used to be sore all the time but they go through so much abuse with him pulling off and biting and tugging that they can take anything now.
" * Baby cries a lot, and is often very irritable and/or restless
* Baby may sometimes gulp, choke, sputter, or cough during feedings at breast
* Baby may seem to bite or clamp down on the nipple while feeding
* Milk sprays when baby comes off, especially at the beginning of a feeding
* Mother may have sore nipples
* Baby may arch and hold himself very stiffly, sometimes screaming
* Feedings often seem like battles, with baby nursing fitfully on and off
* Feedings may be short, lasting only 5 or 10 minutes total
* Baby may seem to have a "love-hate" relationship with the breast
* Baby may burp or pass gas frequently between feedings, tending to spit up a lot
* Baby may have green, watery or foamy, explosive stools
* Mother's breasts feel very full most of the time
* Mother may have frequent plugged ducts, which can sometimes lead to mastitis (breast infection)"

[madelsmama]

I had overactive let-down and had all of the symptoms except the last 3 also, so it's possible.

Is it possible to see an IBCLC in person? I did, and it gave me some peace of mind of knowing that that was what was going on. For my daughter, nursing for 3-8 minutes was average. There was a love/hate relationship with the breast. Coming of the breast repeatedly during let-downs. Never comfort sucking, but coming off the breast after a short feed and being discontent until her brain got the message that her stomach was full. And all the screaming and unhappiness in between feedings. It was a nightmare (but got better :) )

An LC advised me to block feed from the same breast for every feed during a three-hr period before switching. Other moms are advised to feed from the same breast for 2 full feeds before switching.

Thanks for the added info. Keep posting; we'll figure this thing out!

[Alexandria]

I called a lady from LLL and we had a long discussion about what's going on and she's just as stumped as we all are...she can't pin-point anything specific. Thinking it may be a combination of issues.
She gave me the number to a LC in my area; I'm going to give her a call and meet up with her.

[Amy_G_]

He could really be full after 5 minutes if you have an overactive let down and a good supply. Some babies, even young ones, only nurse a few minutes and then they want to look around.

He may not stay full for long, because with an overactive let down and a big supply, he may not get as much hindmilk. block nursing will help, but you are already mostly doing that.

if you've stopped milk for a while, it will take about 2 weeks for the milk protein to fully leave your system. if it's reflux that is better from the removal of milk from your system, it will take weeks or longer for his digestive system and hurting esophagus to heal.

Let him nurse on his own schedule for as long as he wants to for one day and keep a lot of wet and poopy diapers and how long he nurses for, and even what you eat and when, and how long he sleeps. You MAY see a pattern.
If he seems to be peeing and pooping ok after nursing on his own schedule for one day, try it for another day or two and then you probably will see a pattern. He MIGHT just be one of those babies that need minimal comfort at the breast, and just gets down to business and eats what he wants and then he's done.


many of the symptoms you posted may also be attributed to reflux, and some babies are so "silent" in their reflux and seem to grow regardless of it, that you may be hard pressed to get treatment for it from his regular pediatrician. You may need a second opinion.

how is his growth curve? Can you weigh him on a very accurate scale before and after his 5 minute feeding to see how much milk he gets in during that time (weigh in the same diaper, and the difference in ounces is how much milk he's consumed.

[Alexandria]

Sometimes it seems like he's just not getting enough. He'll unlatch and scream and scream but he's so hungry. He'll latch back on only to pull off and cry again...that's when I was drinking milk.

Now that I've stopped all dairy, he pulls of relatively politely after 5 minutes and just wants to look around. But 10 minutes later he's got his hands in his mouth and is very fussy.

I'm under so much stress...I think my supply is really suffering. My breasts aren't filling between feedings and I rarely feel like I have anything to offer him, but I can always express a little something. When my supply was normal (a few days ago) I pumped from one breast while he was latched on to the other. I got about 3.25 oz in the 5 minutes he nurses for. Is that amount relatively similar to the amount he'd be getting?

And if he's simply not getting enough hind milk and I'm already block nursing, how can I fix that? I don't want him to be deprived of any fats for his brain development.

I don't think I can get an accurate scale, but I'll ask around.

[madelsmama]

An LC would have a scale sensitive enough to get accurate before and after scales.

As I mentioned before, there are different ways of block nursing that are effective when simply switching breasts at every feed.

Your baby is 12 weeks or so, right? That is typically when milk supply will start to regulate and hormones change. So, you may notice that you don't become engorged and stay full as often as you did. Is he still giving you 5-6 wet diapers in a 24hr period? Baby is gaining well? If so, your supply is probably fine.

I also had the thought that it is common for babies to be easily distracted by their surroundings at his age. If that seems like it could be a contributing factor here, perhaps an interesting necklace around your neck could keep his attention at the breast a bit longer, and nurse him in a quiet, darkened room.

Pumping 3oz in 5 minutes is BEYOND adequate. That is a great output in just 5 minutes.

When I took my baby to see the LC, we were having problems like yours. We did the before-and-after weights, and she took in 2oz in 3 minutes, which is alot of milk in that period of time. Immediately following, she fussed but not want the breast. I put her on my shoulder and patted her for about 15 minutes, after which, she fell asleep. The LC explained that it takes about 15-20 minutes for her brain to get the "message" that her tummy was full.

Did you give the LC in your area a call?

[Amy_G_]

do you burp him after his 5 minutes?
mine started teething at about 3 months, but didn't get teeth til 7.5 months. the feeling of nursing massaging/pressure on the gums felt good, but they'd get too full too fast nursing and then fuss about it.

[Alexandria]

I'm going to an LLL meeting tomorrow morning and hopefully the LC will meet with me tomorrow or the day after. She's a busy woman, but really good, I hear.
He's VERY easily distracted...has been since day 1. Always awake, never wants to sleep, wants to see and hear everything. I try to nurse him in dark rooms but he's even more fussy that he doesn't have stimulation. I only nurse him laying down tummy to tummy so that he'll relax a bit more. He wets at least 12 diapers a day, only has one bowel movement, but seems to be getting heavier.
Also, he's been biting a lot since he was 8 weeks. I assume it's teething, but it could just be that he's always hungry and wants something in his mouth?

I try to burp him every five minutes or so and he produces some impressive bouts of wind.

Hopefully my supply is just regulated and it's not drying up. I'm under a lot of stress, but I'm taking B Vitamins to counteract that and I've got my fenugreek on hand in case I need it.

Goodness this has been quite the complicated case of fussiness. For the past week, he's continued to be calm and not scream every time we nurse. I think the dairy was definitely making him uncomfortable.

[Alexandria]

So I went to see a Lactation Consultant today.
I explained everything that was going on and said that we're thinking it's a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. She said it sounded pretty text book.
Then she watched us attempt to nurse. After struggling with positions and a screaming baby, she said that it's a very extreme case of an imbalance and that he's so scared of drowning in milk that he's becomes anxious as I'm undoing my shirt and that my let down is very intense.
I also have thrush and mastitis, making things worse for the both of us.
She gave me a list of herbs and supplements to take and made me empty the breast that was a little red. I'm supposed to block feed for 4 hours on one breast. I've been doing everything she suggested and already I feel completely empty. I guess this is how it's supposed to be...an empty breast after he nurses, but I'm anxious about it drying up completely just because this is so foreign to me.
Do you think it's normal to feel this way and should I be concerned about my milk drying up?

[SingingMom]

Try not to worry about drying up. The way that you feel when your milk comes in is NOT the way that nursing feels throughout a nursing relationship.

It's normal for breasts not to feel full between feedings. It's completely normal for your supply to regulate at this time. Those of us who have struggled with overactive letdown, we make milk at an amazing rate. There is SO MUCH milk coming out when your baby nurses, he can't handle it. You don't need to feel full. Your breasts will make milk while your baby is nursing. They don't need a head start.

I had so much milk coming out that my baby learned to let it flow out of his nose while he was nursing. But I didn't feel full.

[Alexandria]

Wow...that's crazy! Mine just lays on his side and lets the excess milk pour out the side of his mouth. Well I'll try not to worry about it. He seems frustrated but I think it's because he's not getting that massive flow that he's used to. I'm so excited to have everything sorted out for him, but it'll probably take another week or so.

[Alexandria]

Just wondering...when my supply has leveled out for him will he nurse longer and not fight me off every time? Or perhaps he's gotten into too much of a routine of it to ever stop?
I have much less milk now but he's still behaving the same way.
I feel really trapped and overwhelmed. I can't go out anywhere for more than 30 min because he needs to eat every hour and I can only nurse him laying down. He screams and fights me off so I kind of need to be home to feed him. Hopefully this will change?

[Nipple_nectar]

You need to hang in there, nursin momma {{{hugs}}} Of course it will change! You will eventually get to the point where it is only smiles and snuggling:) I believe that you are through the worst part and in a few months, he will become such an expert at nursing, he will control the efficiency of your breasts and you will wonder why you ever worried, I promise.

Here I am, my LO turns two next week, I never believed I make it this far, we had huge struggles in the beginning and it has been effortless for so long, I forget how difficult the beginning can be.

You just need to hang in there.

[SingingMom]

Oh, this does get better. And it will get better pretty soon. Eventually, even with OALD, baby gets big enough that he can handle all that milk flow. Many of them even like it. Once baby's mouth and stomach are big enough, nursing will become more pleasant for both of you.

Likely he will learn to nurse in other positions as he grows and everything changes. Have you tried nursing in a sling?

[Alexandria]

I did try nursing in a sling but he's so long I have difficulty making it work...and he's so fussy about things touching his head that he wouldn't go for it anyway. I just have to keep at him when he's half asleep. Today he hardly slept so he's hardly eaten. :(
I really hope this gets better soon. Some lady overheard me talking about this today and she upset me even more; telling me that her daughter did the same thing, never grew out of it, never comfort sucked and weaned early.

[meganlong]

My little girl is 10 weeks old.. I do not think I am producing enough milk. Beofre when my milk was coming in she nursed great... She would feed for a good while she would sometimes get alittle choked but that was very rarely.. Now I have started trying to pump because i have found i am not producing like i was.. It could be because I started feeding her every three hours, since i started doing that when i wake up from the night cause she basically has slept through the night since she was born. But i use to pump out like 8 ounces now its like three. Every two hours I am only getting one ounce!! I want to make sure she is getting enough. I think the reason she will feed and pull off after a minute sometimes less is because nothing is coming out. Or its not enough for her.. Thank God I had milk saved up, because i have been feeding her that because she wasnt wetting like normal.. I just dont want to suppliment because I want to be enough for her!1 I felt really good that I would be able to provide that for her except its not proving!! I am hoping since I have been feeding her every two hours that my milk will start coming in.. I refuse to wake her up during the night because i dont want it to become habbit for her!! Am I doing the right thing by pumping trying to build it up.. Now i have started for like the last feeding letting her nurse until she starts pulling away and feeding ehr what i have saved and then pumping for 10 -15 minutes should i keep doing tha? And i am also going to start eating oatmeal. I just dont want to produce too much!! but if it is too much i can always pump and save for times like theses just incase.. should i keep doing what i am doing or go to formula even though i dont want to.. Breastfeeding doesnt hurt it just hurts my heart that i cant make her satisfied!

From a young first time mother who hasnt had ANYONE in her family ever breastfeed!!