S/O Colorblind

[QuiltyConscience]

Since we are talking about about racism, and having open honest discussions about it, I want to hear some opinions.

I have heard the word "colorblind" often..What exactly does that mean? And is it necessarily a good thing?

I initially thought of colorblind as the opposite of racist, you only look at what someone is one the inside, and the rest just doesn't matter. But over the years I have come to see that word differently, as almost a sticking ones head in the sand and not acknowledging that someone's race does matter in how they have been treated, how they view things, and how they may react.

How can we begin to understand any of that if we pretend that everyone is exactly the same and has had the same experiences?

There is this example from this article:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,84488,00.html



Though the original version of the script was color-blind, Smith urged director Barry Sonnenfeld to make race an issue. ''I said to Barry, 'Uh, did you notice that I'm a black dude, and Robert Conrad isn't?''' recalls Smith. ''He said, 'Oh, come on, no one knows you're black!''' Still, Sonnenfeld embraced the idea. ''It's fun for me to be politically incorrect,'' says the ''Men in Black'' director. ''I had to do it because life in America is so boring we have to do something to spice it up a bit.''

No one knows you're black? That was meant as a compliment, but it doesn't feel like one. No one knows you are black because....? It certainly isn't because we cannot see that his skin is darker. There must be some other meaning of the word "black"there, but what is it exactly? whatever it is it doesn't sound like it means something nice.

Pretending that you don't see that someone is black isn't a compliment, it's downright silly. It's also sending the message that it is a goal - "You're not one of them you are one of us, and good for you for achieving that"

[Tweet]

Yeah, I've always thought of being colorblind as meaning "race should not have any bearing on friendships,jobs, school,etc" and NOT as just pretending you don't notice someone's race. And, I personally believe it's weird. And insulting. I personally enjoy learning about other races and cultures.In fact, I think it's pretty important.

Maybe I don't understand the definition of "colorblind" then. I never took it to mean you literally ignore someone's race altogether.

[tata]

You raise some valid points, Cat.

However, like Morgan Freeman says in the link I posted in the other thread, it's when people deliberately go out of their way to say "black man" or "white man" that bothers me. Skin color doesn't define a person. Sexual orientation doesn't define a person. It may mean that perspectives will be different, that there are challenges faced that otherwise wouldn't exist, but that is true of all people, isn't it?

Being a thirtysomething white female college graduate living and born in the United States doesn't define me, but in the grand scheme of things, I suppose it might help a person understand my struggles or lack thereof. I just know that I don't judgments made about me based on this information and I feel pretty damn confident in saying that I think most people feel that way.

[MoonBound]

For a couple of years kindergarten and 1st I lived in ca in a mostly military wives but not base housing neighborhood. I had black, Japanese, wasp, Jewish, Philippino, and Buddhist neighbors. We all went to school together and played together. The Buddhist woman ended up being my sister's godmother, the black girls mom tried to teach us to dance - it worked for my sister - 'properly', I went to seder with the Jewish family and was jealious because they got candy every night at christmas, the philippino boy's mom taught me about equality and holding yourself back - there was some handicap in her arm and she was so embarassed that she rarely left the house and did the neighbor ladies nails for extra money rather than getting a job because our moms knew her, my bff was the Japanese girl and I forgave her for convincing me to try nori by comparing it to a snicker's bar.

It was a neat way to live, we all ran ragged in each others homes and lives. my point it didn't occur to any of us - well art least not me - that this wasn't just the way the whole world was. We where all different but all kids and fun. Imagine my shock moving to a small town in WI. I came home from school the first day and asked my mom "Why is everyone the same color?"

[QuiltyConscience]

I get what you mean, tata.

It just seems like many times people ( in general) will swing from one extreme to another..

In you example of someone going out of their way to say "black or "white" I have seen people go out of their way to not mention color when describing someone , out of fear of appearing racist. To the point of ridiculousness. i have had too many weird conversations such as:
Friend: "I went to lunch with Sue today. She's nice. "

me : "Oh neat, did you go? And who is Sue?"

friend:" you met her at the _____meeting last week. She was wearing a green dress.

Me: " Hm..there were a lot of people there..the woman with the short blond hair or the tall one who works at the bank?

Friend: " The real estate agent"

Me: "I don't remember a real estate agent..which kids were hers?

Friend: " her little girl had on the polka dot dress"

Me " Oh the Asian woman!, Yeah I talked to her about knitting, she seemed fun"

friend Sounding surprised to hear that Sue is Asian:" Oh yeah, I guess she is Asian"

Doesn't that seem a bit silly to ignore the obvious and say everything but "she's Asian"? And then pretend to be surprised to find that out even after she just had lunch with her? Why would knowing and saying out loud that she is Asian is something bad?

[MiMi_of_4]

One of my DH's best friends growing up (and he remains one of his best friends) was black...his skin was so dark, his football coach dubbed him "Lump" as in a lump of coal. My kids still call him Uncle Lump, so while his skin may be a different color, and his nickname refers to it, we don't dwell on it...he is just HIM to us. Actually, when I think of Lump, I think of his doggone loud-mouth and the fact that if he's in a bar and we happen to walk in, it's obvious he's in there...lol...

One of my best friends is one of my former 4th grade students, who volunteered for our afterschool programs, then was my high school aide, then worked for me in my after-school program, then was my DH's office aide. Yeah, he's black and we were thrilled to have him as a positive role model, and as a liason with the parents of many of our students, but I hired him (and then DH hired him) because he's an intellligent young man, not because he is black. Again, to us, he's just T, who we're lucky to have in our lives. His momma and I swear we raised him together...lol...

Those guys are just two examples of our many friends who happen to have a skin color different than ours, and to be honest, while I *know* they are black, the color of their skin rarely crosses my mind, unless there's a discussion like this on a message board.

Same goes for my son, who is a good-looking, highly intelligent, educated, compassionate, musically and artistically talented young man, who just happens to be gay. Ask me if I ever start a conversation with "My son is gay..." unless there is an on-going discussion about GLBT people. That's NOT how I identify him (and it's not how he identifies himself), even though it's an integral part of who he is.

I'm obviously one of those people who look beyond outward appearances and have no problem saying or doing so.

If I was in a conversation discussing one of my above friends, I would identify Lump as DH's best football buddy from high school, and I usually refer to T as my "adopted" child. If push came to shove and I had to describe them to someone who didn't know them and needed to identify them, I would have no problem saying they are black guys, because they ARE and if asked, they'll tell you they are. I'm going to guess, in the same situation, they'd refer to DH and me as their white friends ~ because, ya know, we ARE white.

[steelady]

Interesting topic.

I'm dealing with something similar, but yet not, related to ds's autism. I don't want people to see that as an excuse (if I tell them), but I also want people to realize that many kids that don't appear to be different, are different, and that's ok. If that made any sense.

The line, to me, is when the descriptor becomes the definition (as Tata stated). Sort of back to that politically correct (gag*) idea that we should be person specific-he has autism, not that autistic dude, etc. I don't want to be color blind-I love diversity. I just don't want color to be the only defining thing.

*gag because I despise the term, not that the idea is gag-worthy.

[QuiltyConscience]

Interesting topic.

I'm dealing with something similar, but yet not, related to ds's autism. I don't want people to see that as an excuse (if I tell them), but I also want people to realize that many kids that don't appear to be different, are different, and that's ok. If that made any sense.

The line, to me, is when the descriptor becomes the definition (as Tata stated). Sort of back to that politically correct (gag*) idea that we should be person specific-he has autism, not that autistic dude, etc. I don't want to be color blind-I love diversity. I just don't want color to be the only defining thing.

*gag because I despise the term, not that the idea is gag-worthy.


Right- A happy medium. Acknowledge the difference, yet not making the difference the definition.

[MiMi_of_4]

Makes perfect sense to me, steel. The first thing I think of when you talk about your son is not that he has austism, but that he is one cute little dude ... But then, when you talk about your life, knowing that he is one cute little dude who happens to be different is important so we can understand what's going on.

[tata]

Steel, I think that's a great analogy (either you are doing those extra well today or I'm just especially in tune with your posts!).

MiMi, I also liked the way you put it with your DH's buddy and the "adopted" son, as well as your son.

[SingingMom]

I wouldn't have known that Barry Sonnenfeld is black. I've never met the man, I've only seen his name. So, to my mind, that's how no one knows he is black.

And CM, your DDs ARE Canadian, right? I mean, they're not wrong.

My kids think of themselves as Americans. They know that lots of Californians look like them and have similarly multi-sourced genetics.

IME, lots of people in different places are effectively color-blind. It doesn't matter in DH's workplace if you're black or white, or male or female, or gay, or whatever. It matters whether you can write software. It matters if you know your stuff.

Now, to some of his colleagues I have met, their ethnic identity seems to matter to THEM at work. But to others, not at all. Should it matter? I don't know. There's a seductive simplicity to paying attention simply to one's ability to work...

[QuiltyConscience]

I wouldn't have known that Barry Sonnenfeld is black. I've never met the man, I've only seen his name. So, to my mind, that's how no one knows he is black.



I have no idea what color Barry is. Barry was telling Will Smith that that no one knows that Will Smith is black... Will Smith, the actor from Fresh Prince of Bel-air and Independence Day.

This guy:
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/josh_ua92/smithuse.jpg

[SingingMom]

Oh, THAT Will Smith.

LOL. The Will Smith that my kids love... We have some of his albums. My son wants to be Will Smith when he grows up. If he can't be Batman.

[QuiltyConscience]

Barry is a white dude.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Barry_Sonnenfeld_by_David_Shankbone.jpg/180px-Barry_Sonnenfeld_by_David_Shankbone.jpg