9 yr old - lying and stealing money - WWYD?

[amkari]

I am disappointed, heartbroken, and furious... and I am really questioning how I am going to respond.

Ds, who is 9 yrs old, has had a book fair going on at school all week. He never mentioned it to me, nor did he ask for money to spend. I was originally going to give him money to spend when we went for his open house. Instead I caught him with several new items on Monday afternoon. When questioned he admitted to taking money from his bank... except his bank had been emptied to buy his new bicycle and he hadn't earned any more money since. I confiscated his bank that day for his irresponsibility and because he couldn't account for where the money came from.

He had his school open house last night. I almost didn't go since I have a nasty case of pneumonia but felt that I really needed to go anyway. My mom and sis also went. During the evening he showed me 2 new books that he said he bought at the book fair... now we are up to about $20 spent and I have no idea where he got the money.

In talking with his teacher I find out that he told her he got it "from David Copperfield" at the show we attended last Friday night. It was a great story, but 99% fabricated. He also lied about what we did on vacation but that is another story. I figured out what he had done when she mentioned him showing her a $20 bill just yesterday. Anyway, he finally admitted to stealing it from me... I throw my money into a small basket on the kitchen counter every night and had just put $100 in it from my friend paying me to babysit her dd and for her Avon orders. I knew something was funny when I went to put it in the bank and there was only $80 but since I hadn't actually counted it when she gave it to me I just figured she hadn't paid for her most recent Avon order yet.

This isn't the first time he has taken money from a place I knew it was... but in the past it has been "found" money that was in the laundry or lying around somewhere else. He has been spoken to repeatedly by myself and my sister over it. Past episodes are why my money started all going into this particular basket. This is first episode of outright stealing, knowing that I knew how much was there and where it was... then for him to tell his teacher that David Copperfield gave it to him during the magic show....

He also knows we are tight on money, that there really isn't a lot of money for extras. I've tried to involve him in many aspects of the family finances lately. Yet I have still tried to make sure there was some set aside just for fun, uneccesary stuff.

I broke down crying on the sidewalk after leaving the classroom.

Ironically, one of the main reasons I divorced his father were lies over money and taking money from me without asking... resulting in major trust issues. THEN dd's 'sperm donor' pulled some of the same shit... thank goodness I hadn't married him. His ass went kicking rocks too. I simply will not have anyone in my house that I can't trust... but what do you do when it is your 9 yr old child and you are the only parent they have (and have had for 5 yrs)? UGH! I have now honestly lost every bit of trust in him... I even had a hard time tucking him in and telling him I loved him last night.

So, anyway... he is currently in baseball and Cub Scouts, he has tons of toys and friends, and his own fish tank. He lost his TV months ago for watching at inappropriate times. I really feel the correctional officer in me coming back right now... my house is about to become the ad seg unit on lockdown. I have an idea of what I want to do but as it involves MAJOR household changes I also want some perspective from outside minds. Basically he loses every priveledge he has and will have to earn everything from scratch.

1. Baseball is OVER. Despite the 2 months left in the season he will no longer be participating and his gear will be sold to help pay bills. He will have to earn the money to replace them over the next year if he has the opportunity to play again next season. I invested several hundred dollars in new equipment this year, money that really would have been more benefit elsewhere.

2. Cub Scouts is going to be restricted to community service activities only. As he has violated several of scoutings foundational character traits he will have to earn opportunities to participate further.

3. Toys are gone... they will either be placed in storage for him to 'buy' back as he earns the priveledge or donated. Some of the higher end ones like his robot and nintendo may be sold to help pay bills.

4. I'm debating the fish tank. On one hand he has shown good responsibility in making sure they are fed and their water is good. On the other hand they cost money to maintain and he obviously has no appreciation for the value of money.

5. Most of his clothes will be taken and stored. He will have just a few outfits to get through the week with and will be totally responsible for his own laundry. He can 'buy back' items by working around the house 'earning money'.

6. Basic healthy meals given as normal, however drinks other than milk or water as well as desserts and treats will have to be 'bought'. The fridge and cabinets will be locked up... since I need to childproof for the baby soon anyway I will just up the timetable.

7. I'm going to try and arrange for a tour of the local juvenile hall and jail. He needs to understand the consequences of theft now because if the child ever gets arrested for anything he will sit there and suffer them. I won't bail him out and I won't visit. Yeah, in that respect I am totally a hard ass.

Since I currently work from home I don't have to depend on someone else to enforce my rules. Nor do I have to deal with the "well I can just do it at so and so's" attitude. I also have plenty of work for idle hands that have nothing more productive to do. We have had enough issues over homework and other responsibilites that some sort of behaviour modification has to go in place now. If I don't fix the issues now what will he be like as a teenager???

I've never been a huge spanker (although is has been and is used occasionally) simply due to my own temper. I try not to do it in anger because I could easily lose it and I have a hard time with doing it coldly without that anger to provide the energy. By the time I am calm enough to be 100% rational and in control it is really too late for it to be effective.

My goal is to teach him the value of money via sweat equity. He will have to work and earn nearly everything including playtime. He is also going to have to be a contributor to paying the bills with his 'paycheck'. In addition to basic chores which he just has to do as part of the family, he will also have other projects for which he will get 'paid'.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Amber

[Justicedog]

I'm sorry you're dealing with that. I'm not sure the answers.

I don't know about taking baseball away. He's on a team right? Doesn't he have responsibility to stick with it until the season end as a teammate?

I'd also put my money in a less open place.

[Peeka2]

I think based on your past experiences you are being a bit over the top. I do have to say that at least he spent the money on something educational. Knowing you are having financial problems may be prompting him to do it. He may be afraid to ask and was hoping he could replace the money before you noticed. He also may be embarressed to NOT buy something when his peers are buying something.

[Peeka2]

I would restict his play time. Keep his TV. I would also restict his snacks. I would let him to do baseball and the cub scouts, responsibility is good.

And then I would continually talk to him about the effects of stealing and lying and how it can effect his life. The tours of the juvie center may be effective. And I would defintely move your money. No tempation is good. I would also find ways for him to EARN his own money do that he feels like he has control of his own spending money. If he knows how to get money he won't steal it. Defintely make him work for it.

[melissab]

I understand being disappointed, but it was only $20 for a book fair. I agree with the PP he was probably afraid to ask and be told that there's not enough money. I forgot to give my 10yr old money for the last book fair and she was embarrassed because she was the only kid in class who wasn't able to buy anything.

I think it's cruel to take his toys and sell them, he took $20 not a $100 your over reaction could cause further problems for you. Put the video game away until he has repaid you the $20. I would talk to him about the consequences that come with stealing as you get older but why would you tell a 9yr old that if get's in trouble you won't help him or visit him.

[Justicedog]

I agree with it being an overreaction. Check yourself. Is this reaction because of the men in your life or because of a 9 year old boy? (I'm saying that sincerely, not witchy.)

[amkari]

I do have to say that at least he spent the money on something educational............He also may be embarressed to NOT buy something when his peers are buying something.

Educational is debatable.... I'm normally all for books as I am a total bookworm myself. The titles were "101 Ways to Bug Your Parents" and 101 Ways to Bug Your Teacher"... and then there were the toys...

Besides, the child has a ton of books and a library card.

There were 2 episodes to this on different days. On the first day he bought toys with questionable money. I took his bank away since he did not ask nor have permission. That was the end of it.

THEN he took the money and made a big production to his teacher about how David Copperfield GAVE him the money personally during a magic trick AND he was going to spend it all.

I go out of my way to make sure he can get something appropriate when the opportunity presents itself... especially following an episode of buying trash (which he recently had when I gave him some money to spend with a friend).

As far as embarrasment... I imagine it will be far worse when I pull him out of class today to return what he bought having to explain to the book fair lady that he bought it with stolen money.

[amkari]

I would restict his play time. Keep his TV. I would also restict his snacks. I would let him to do baseball and the cub scouts, responsibility is good.

I would also find ways for him to EARN his own money do that he feels like he has control of his own spending money. If he knows how to get money he won't steal it. Defintely make him work for it.

He basically has no playtime because he does not do his homework and turn it in on time. He can... that's been proven time and time again... he chooses not to. Baseball and Scouts are his playtime for all intents and purposes... the only other things I can restrict are food and belongings.

He has had ways to earn money posted on the fridge... in fact, every day for the past 2 weeks I have offered him opportunities to earn spending money and he has refused saying he wasn't interested.

[ima062002]

I think you are way over the top with the punishments. He is 9, not your ex dh or your ex boyfriend. I understand that this is emotionally very had for you but it's not the same if a child does these things.

I think that the consequence for taking the money is to earn it back because that is an important lesson for him to learn, both that when you mess up you need to fix it and also that these $20 are needed in your budget to pay for necessary items.

With regard to the lie. You knew that he couldn't have gotten that money rightfully and by questioning him, the only thing he could do was to lie. That is what kids do (and many adults) because they are being put on the spot. In addition, especially if they love you they don't want you to think badly about them. He knew also that he was going to be punished. So of course he lied. I would tell him that people lose trust in people who lie and that you want to be able to trust him. Next time just tell him that you know that he couldn't have gotten the [...] with his own means and invite him to come clean.

I would talk about what the stealing and lying does to other people, i.e. how wronged and disappointed I felt and how losing trust in people you love hurts. Many children will not think about this themselves, and you can help him become more concerned for other people.

Re. the stealing. Most children will steal something at least once (probably most of the posters did too when they were children). When they do, most parents overreact and accuse their children of being thieves or liars and punish them, in the hope that their children don't grow up to be thieves. But judging and punishing kids only makes the situation worse. Any parental intervention that is punitive and deals only with the behavior, and not the underlying problem, makes the situation worse.

Instead I'd focus on a plan for replacing the money. I'd involve my child figuring out a plan for replacing it. If he gets an allowance, that could contribute. You could work out a payment plan he can handle and deduct it from his allowance or money he'll earn each week. Keep a payment record, so he can see how she is doing. It is not about him not having any money for himself during that time.

Many children steal because they believe they are unloved and don't belong. They think they have the night to hurt others since no one cares about them, and this hurts. It is called a "revenge cycle." I think it was great that you were able to tell him that you love him. But maybe he still feels abandoned by his dad, and that pops up now? It is IMO very important to separate the deed from the doer and show love while working out a plan to fix the problem.

Also, children often steal because it is the only way they have to get what they want. That might be an issue too, and I think you are doing a good thing by involving him more in the family budgeting. You could point out to him that if you had known about the book fair, you and him could have worked out a plan to be able to buy the books and still have money for all the necessary things like food and electricity.

Stealing occurs also simply because money is laying out and is too tempting. If I were you I'd keep my money and valuables out of sight.

I would also hold a family meeting (these are a great tool to check in with kids periodiacally and to hear grievances from everybody and try finding a solution as a team) and help everybody explore the consequences of stealing (make sure this conversation is friendly and generic instead of focused on him). Possible questions are: "Why do you think someone might steal? What are the consequences of stealing? What do we need to do in our family so we can all feel trust and safety?"

Children can learn that they can save face and take care of the problem without losing the love and respect of their loved ones. Their financial needs are important and their parents can help them figure out ways to get what they want without stealing. The goal of all of this is for him to realize that he is not bad; he has just made a mistake that can be corrected.

[maksmom]

I agree with pp, he has a responsibility to his team and you need to enforce that. Restricting his "fun" activities with cub scouts for awhile seems reasonable. Selling his things to pay bills is way over the top, as a punishment. Working off his debt by doing chores and earning back your trust would be my course of action.

[amkari]

I would talk to him about the consequences that come with stealing as you get older but why would you tell a 9yr old that if get's in trouble you won't help him or visit him.

I didn't tell him that... although in re-reading I can see where it sounded like I might have.

The dollar amount really is not an issue ... theft is theft. There is no justifiable reason for it.

[Earthmama]

Wow, that's gotta hurt, considering your history.

First of all, huge kudos to you for seeking a calmer perspective before enforcing the penalties.

He is your son, of course, and though he has been exposed to people who are less than honest (your exes), his ultimate moral lessons will be taught by you.

I think you should be sure that the punishment fits the crime and not your emotions. You don't need to punish him for all the times others have lied to you, too.

I think that Cub Scouts and Baseball are great places for him to have positive male role models - I wouldn't take those away right now. He is obviously entering a period in his life where that could be critical.

I also agree that he has a commitment to his Baseball team - that's part of his integrity, too. If you want to encourage integrity, don't take him out.

And I completely agree that he may need a way to earn money he wants. Not just household chores - but he can stamp your catalogs or help you check your order slips and distribute product when your deliveries come in.

Also - since he is involved in Baseball and Scouts - you might talk to his coach or den leader about this. They might be able to give you some perspective & success stories to encourage you & probably know your kid well enough to offer advice. It might even be that a talk from his den leader may help remind him that he wants to stay honest. Sometimes it takes someone one step away from the tension to really make the point that needs to be made.

I think TV and video games are completely free for restriction, though. They aren't much good for anyone, anyway. :)

Best of luck. Big hugs.
You two can get through this!

[amkari]

Justicedog...

I'd like to think that it is entirely the 9 yr old... but there are probably shades of the other as well. I simply have not tolerated ANYONE in my life who lied to or stole from me for years. In fact, since high school, well before the ex husband or ex boyfriend. It started with a best friend who lived with us for a time. When she was caught more than once I asked my parents to kick her out. I am somebody who gives my trust up front, burn me once and you're on shaky ground, burn me twice and I'm done.

Unfortunately my son has lost a great deal of trust over several different episodes. But, he is my son and at 9 yrs old I can't just cut him off. So many ways of discipline have been tried and have proven uneffective. Nothing seems to be important or to matter to him. I've gotten to the point where I think overreaction is the only thing he even notices.

We have had conversation after conversation, grounding, loss of playtime, loss of certain toys, spanking, screaming, you name it. Now I'm looking for ground zero, a place to start over.

My parents were 'teaching parents' in Nevada when I was born. They got foster kids who were in behaviour modification programs for discipline purposes. Those kids were mainly early teens but with changes in society today I think even younger kids are candidates for some of the things they describe. Primarily the loss of all material items... everything had to be earned by modeling appropriate behaviour and fulfilling certain responsibilities.

I'm at my wits end... its not just the most recent but an accumulation of a few years for some problems.

[leosmommy]

dss stole a rather large sum of money from a family member when he was about this age. We caught on, and found the money. HE admitted to stealing. He had to return the money in person and apologize. He had to write down why stealing was wrong, and how his theft had impacted his family member ( she was using the money he took for moving expenses and he took it the day they were moving, it was left on a counter that's how he had access )
We also had a long talk about trust and how he had broken ours. Trust can be easliy lost and not so easily gained back. As a result of the loss of trust there were a few privileges he lost.
He was also grounded from video games for awhile, can't remember how long.

When you force a child to quit a team, you are punishing the entire team, just my thought.

Involving your child in the family budget is a good thing, but too much information about financial struggles will probably stress kids out, and may lead to the behavior your seeing.

[Nanimal]

I think you need to focus more on teaching an important lesson in morality that will help him grow as a person and less on trying to be as punitive as possible. Earning the money back and discussing trust is important and useful. Don't make it a power struggle.

[Amy_G_]

You said "Unfortunately my son has lost a great deal of trust over several different episodes. But, he is my son and at 9 yrs old I can't just cut him off. So many ways of discipline have been tried and have proven uneffective. Nothing seems to be important or to matter to him. I've gotten to the point where I think overreaction is the only thing he even notices."

That is a huge issue.
You've said numerous times in this thread that he's lost your trust and if he were NOT your 9 year old son you would have already kicked him out for stealing. So if he were what 13, 15, 16 you'd just cut him off??

You need parenting help NOW cause I have a 9 year old and to imagine even THINKING that I wouldn't want him in my life makes my heart hurt. He stole $20 and in the past stole money taken out of clothing in the laundry, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't rape someone, he didn't do those horrible things that makes grown ups cut people out of their lives. I don't care if he'd stolen the whole $100, you don't even THINK of disowning your child for that!!

You are reacting over the top, and of course he's come to expect it. It sounds like a pattern with you--he does something that is NORMAL and to be EXPECTED in children, and you treat him like he's an adult with adult ability to control impulses, make rational choices and make good decisions.

As his mother, you need to be able to stand by him when he screws up and help him learn to make good choices.

Taking away the books he bought, making him return them--that would be a logical consequence of stealing the money he used to buy them.
Having him work to earn the money plus interest to repay you for the $20 would be a logical consequence of stealing the money.

taking away his clothes, toys, baseball, cub scouts and other things is just MEANNESS and HURTFUL on your part. It will definitely get the action you want--he will hate you and want to leave you as soon as he can. He wont' feel like he can struggle and fail in front of you, he can't trust that you love him unconditionally. Lying and Stealing may be horrible things when an adult does it--but even adults are given second and third chances, and options to make restitution.

You need to step away and find some way of dealing with your son in a reasonable way. If you can't do so, maybe he does need to go live with someone else for a while and I'm 100% serious. My 9 year old would love to have another brother, I'll take yours in a heartbeat!

yes, your post makes me that angry, and I don't get angry. I'm angry and crying for your child. Wake up, look at his little face and realize he's much much closer to that newborn you gave birth to in his abilities, his thoughts and his cognitive skills than he is to the guys in your life that have hurt you. You can't make him pay for their mistakes, and if you come down that hard on making such a relatively small mistake, your son will learn to hide his mistakes from you with lies because he's afraid that next time you will kick him out if he screws up. Kids shouldn't have to be afraid of that with their parents.

[intokermit]

I disagree that she's being over the top. I realize that he's 9, but if she doesn't get a handle on this now, it will get worse with time, and one day he could be arrested for shoplifting. It may seem harsh, but it worked for our family. There were only a few things that my parents had to give us. They made sure that we were fed, had a bed, and clothes. If we did something stupid (like stealing), then those extras that made life fun and nice were taken away. There was a time when my sister was caught shoplifting, and my parents took everything away from her, but the bed, food, and clothes. She had to earn her stuff back. She was only 10 at the time, but she never stole again. I do agree that working the debt off is a good idea. Selling the stuff might make him resent you, and cause him to steal more to replenish the items. I would also keep in mind that he will need to be rewarded for every good thing he does, while in punishment. Keeping his things locked up, and not rewarding him for doing the right thing, etc., could make him feel like it's never going to end. Good luck to you.

[Amy_G_]

1. Baseball is OVER. Despite the 2 months left in the season he will no longer be participating and his gear will be sold to help pay bills. He will have to earn the money to replace them over the next year if he has the opportunity to play again next season. I invested several hundred dollars in new equipment this year, money that really would have been more benefit elsewhere. It's not his responsibility to pay the bills

2. Cub Scouts is going to be restricted to community service activities only. As he has violated several of scoutings foundational character traits he will have to earn opportunities to participate further. Being involved in Cub scouts is a good thing for boys, positive role models, character traits. I will guess that he's going into Webelos pretty soon where he'll learn a scout it trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, kind, courteous, cheerful, thrifty, brave clean and reverent

3. Toys are gone... they will either be placed in storage for him to 'buy' back as he earns the priveledge or donated. Some of the higher end ones like his robot and nintendo may be sold to help pay bills. it's not his responsibility to pay bills by selling his toys.

4. I'm debating the fish tank. On one hand he has shown good responsibility in making sure they are fed and their water is good. On the other hand they cost money to maintain and he obviously has no appreciation for the value of money. so take away something he is responsible and cares for? that will make what point exactly?--sounds meanspirited to me

5. Most of his clothes will be taken and stored. He will have just a few outfits to get through the week with and will be totally responsible for his own laundry. He can 'buy back' items by working around the house 'earning money'. clothes are a basic need. 9 year old can HELP with laundry, making him totally responsible for his laundry without a lot of prior experience is not reasonable. If his clothes are always on the floor and he takes clean clothes and puts them in the laundry hamper, then helping out lots with his laundry is reasonable and logical. Taking away his clothes to make a point is not

6. Basic healthy meals given as normal, however drinks other than milk or water as well as desserts and treats will have to be 'bought'. The fridge and cabinets will be locked up... since I need to childproof for the baby soon anyway I will just up the timetable.
teaching a child to sneak food it not a good idea. If you have to lock your cabinets, that would be a logical response to a child sneaking and eating all the food for a week of school lunches or something. it is an overreaction. Childproofing is totally different than locking cabinets.
7. I'm going to try and arrange for a tour of the local juvenile hall and jail. He needs to understand the consequences of theft now because if the child ever gets arrested for anything he will sit there and suffer them. I won't bail him out and I won't visit. Yeah, in that respect I am totally a hard ass. so if your child at 11 gets caught shoplifting you won't go pick him up, get him counseling, and help him fix the problem. fine. taking a 9 year old for a tour of the juvenile hall because he bought books with $20 of his mom's money is excessive. Scared straight doesn't work. Scared shitless and causing more emotional trauma, yeah that's a sure bet.

He bought books.
he didn't buy drugs.
he lied--yeah telling his teacher he got $ from David copperfield at the magic show.

I don't see what he did as this big deal that is going to lead him to a life of crime.

I see what you are doing in reply as not being logical. I see what you are doing as being punishment. Cruel and unusual punishment. and we all know punishment for the sake of revenge or making someone regret what they did doesn't work to deter future crimes.

[leosmommy]

I disagree that she's being over the top. I realize that he's 9, but if she doesn't get a handle on this now, it will get worse with time, and one day he could be arrested for shoplifting. It may seem harsh, but it worked for our family. There were only a few things that my parents had to give us. They made sure that we were fed, had a bed, and clothes. If we did something stupid (like stealing), then those extras that made life fun and nice were taken away. There was a time when my sister was caught shoplifting, and my parents took everything away from her, but the bed, food, and clothes. She had to earn her stuff back. She was only 10 at the time, but she never stole again. I do agree that working the debt off is a good idea. Selling the stuff might make him resent you, and cause him to steal more to replenish the items. I would also keep in mind that he will need to be rewarded for every good thing he does, while in punishment. Keeping his things locked up, and not rewarding him for doing the right thing, etc., could make him feel like it's never going to end. Good luck to you.


If he were to continue to steal, chose to steal from a store, and got arrested one day for shoplifting, that would be a natural consequence, that would be appropriate. That might be impactful for him. Taking his clothing, making him quit a sports team, having to help pay bills, is not IMO.

[Shades]

I stole lipstick and fake eyelashes from a store when I was 5. There wasn't anything horrible underlying why I did it: I just wanted them. My mom made me take them back to the store, but that was it. It made a huge impact, however. I've never stollen anything since.

Lots of kids steal and should have consequences imposed by their parents so they learn it's wrong. But I don't think the fact that he stole means there some kind of huge problem or character flaw. IMO, you should make him return the items, and earn the money to repay you. But anything beyond that would be over the top.

Whenever my kids mess up I always look at myself first and what I might have done that could have led to that behavior. From what you've said, it looks like he's really testing your limits to get attention and might need something from you that he's not getting. Do you treat him like he's untrustworthy? Maybe you could give him some opportunities to earn your trust and respect. Focussing on his positive behavior could go a long way.

[Tweet]

I'll be back, but I think your initial punishment list is way fucking over the top. Most of it doesn't even fit the crime! Good lord. I really hope you've calmed down by now and are looking at things in a more realistic manner. I know it's hard when you're so upset at first.

Anyway, there'd be consequences in my own that matched what he actually did. And most importantly, I'd be concerned with the reasons for doing so. I get the feeling that there could be some big issues brewing this kid and what he needs his mother finding out what's going on in his heart and head. He's only 9.

[Tweet]

Intokermit, my dd stole something once from a store. I went with her, she gave it back and told the work manager she stole and that she was very sorry. I made sure to let her know why we don't take things and what happens when you're older and you steal. She's never stolen again, either. I didn't need to do a bunch of crap that had nothing at all to do with what happened.

[amkari]

Amy G... don't feel sorry for him. He is very well taken care of, well loved, and his desires are not often denied when money is available and it is reasonable. I am much more lenient than my parents ever were. You took several of my comments to the extreme and put words in my mouth.

Yes, I am extremely angry and hurt, not to mention very ill with pneumonia. In fact, I have been unable to sleep and have been crying off and on all night. No, I did not threaten to disown my child. However, if he were a teenager and got arrested, yes I would leave him to spend some time in jail or juvie contemplating just what kind of life he wanted. I grew up with 2 parents who were correctional officers and I was well aware of the consequences of getting into legal trouble. They would have left me in jail in a heartbeat to teach me a lesson as a teenager. As an adult, I worked as a correctional officer for 6 years until an inmate injured me to the point of needing surgery and subsequent medical retirement at age 28.

I am also aware that often my first reaction is very knee-jerk and extreme when dealing with a child. A remnant of my former career where confiscating unecessary items, priveledges, and activities is often the only tool available to manage an inmates behaviour. Perspective and questioning that automatic response is why I posted here in the first place, not for someone to say "oh pity poor misbehaving child, lets send him to live elsewhere because we feel sorry for him" - paraphrased, not quoted...

In addition to the positive suggestions I've seen here I plan on working with his den and pack leaders, his teacher and principal, and his coach with regards to honesty and integrity. While I have never used scouts or baseball as a carrot or punishment, when it is the only thing left then at some point it has more value as a tool.

This is not his first brush with stealing or shoplifting, it has been an ongoing problem for him since age 4. For the last year or so I though it was going away, now I think he is just getting better at hiding it. Apologizing, returning items to the store has almost always backfired... the store managers nearly always said thanks for being honest, you can have it now, you're so cute... and I was left to refuse the freebie to teach the lesson. Now he's not nearly as cute... and he is lying his little 9 yr old ass off about numerous things.

At some point I would much prefer he learn what it is like to lose everything without the legal stigma attached to a criminal record. In order to do that, I have to do it at home. After much thought and discussion with my parents it won't be the lesson taught this time... if he gets it then he may never have to learn that lesson. But theft is theft IMO... just because this episode was "only $20" doesn't make the importance any less. $20 now could easily become $200 or $2000 if the opportunity presented itself. I personally make no distinction between petty theft and grand theft... both break all trust in someone.


Thanks to the positive suggestions...

[Tweet]

If it is an ongoing problem, then maybe it's time for counseling. Family and individual. This would lead me to believe that something here needs to be addressed if the stealing has gone on this long and you feel he's just getting better at hiding it.

I will say that over the top consequences and fear of a great wrath just taught me to be sneakier about things. Not stealing, but other things. I think that can be a pretty common theme ,actually, so take that for what it's worth. I just don't imagine you're going to get the desired result with what you've got planned out for him. I think it's far more likely to get even more sneaky and closed up. But some kids will behave because they are scared shitless. Personally, I'd rather they not do things like steal because it's not right and not because they're scared of a list of harsh consequences and a parent that is feeling so badly about them. kwim?

[SingingMom]

It's really upsetting when a kid this age demonstrates to you that he hasn't yet internalized important values.

However, it's your job as a parent to teach those values. And some others. This is a great opportunity- it's much, much better to be struggling with this when your kid is nine years old, than when he is nineteen, right?

First of all, you demonstrate to the kid that you won't allow this to happen anymore. You need to put the money away- preferably, locked up. That's a consequence, although it doesn't obviously impact your kid. But you can tell him, "I have to lock money up now because you have shown me that you don't understand how important it is to be respectful of others' money." Demonstrate that you won't allow him to steal by taking away the opportunity. You are serious, the money is important, so you show him that you will make the changes necessary.

You can also explain that since he took your money, he owes you some chores- or whatever works in your family. I like extra chores, personally, because a kid that age can actually do helpful work, like scrubbing the bathroom floor or whatever.

And when you and he are calm, you can talk to him about trust in families. You can explain to him that families don't work without trust. You can point out that, when he's sixteen, you won't want to trust him with a car if he hasn't previously demonstrated that he can be trusted.

Not that he has to prove it now, of course, but with kids, sometimes you have to connect the dots for them; you have to help him see how his being trustworthy will relate to your ability to give him freedom.

And then, if it were me, I'd wait a while and think. Is this part of a bigger pattern? Is there a history of impulsive behavior or poor self control? Are there larger issues?

I don't have any patience with the idea that he might be embarrassed about not having money to spend if his classmates are buying things... But if a kid is struggling with certain kinds of disorders, he may need help to control himself, and all the yelling and consequencing in the world won't fix it.

One of my kids has struggled with impulse control that has resulted in this kind of behavior, and lying to cover it up. The lying stemmed from her intense shame that she had done something bad, rather than a heartless disregard for morality. When we all understood that her impulse control problem was related to ADD, we were better able to help her make choices that put her in better positions to make GOOD choices. (And ultimately, she needs a little medication to manage herself.)

[Tweet]

And your kid does deserve some pity.Not because of the stealing, but because there is something going on there that has not been dealt with. Kids don't just manifest those kinds of behaviors and have it be a problem for years w/o something going on. This isn't to place blame on YOU. But, yeah, I feel bad for a 9 year old child that is struggling,sorry. I feel bad when my own kids struggle, even if I'm so pissed at them I can't see straight.

ETA or what SM said. There is some underlying issue, and if it is a disorder, the consequences aren't going to help

[Justicedog]

I agree that counseling may be in order if these are issues he's been dealing with for awhile.

I think perhaps calling the store prior to returning the item and explaining what you're doing may be helpful.

[Justicedog]

Oh, I had assumed that the list was a rant in anger. I know I can come up with some really over the top stuff in the heat of the moment.

Does your ds have any good male role models? Would the boys and girls club big brother program be available?

I also agree that most kids will take things from their parents and as PP mentioned, we set them up to lie to us.

ETA: I'll even tell my kids the OTT punishments. (Sleeping on the roof, riding on the top of the car, etc.)

[3girls2luv]

I agree that you are going way OTT with the punishments. He is only 9 and I too understand that sometimes you feel so much anger that you want to take everything away from them but you need really sit down and calm yourself and put yourself in his shoes. How would your mother react if you did this at the age of 9? How would you want her to react? What would make you never want to do it again? Don't take him out of baseball and please do not sell his stuff to help you pay bills he does not deserve that. Well that is my 2 cents, I have to get my @$$ back to work. Good luck.

[Tweet]

I didn't tell him that... although in re-reading I can see where it sounded like I might have.

The dollar amount really is not an issue ... theft is theft. There is no justifiable reason for it.


No, it's not justifiable. I'm just baffled why you don't seem the least bit interested in finding out the root cause of it. You've said a couple of times that it's your past work as a correctional officer that makes you react the way you do. Frankly, that almost sounds like a cop out to me. You seem far more interested in punishment,even when admitting your initial reaction was over the top.

I'mr eally not trying to be a bitch here. I totally understand the sadness ,anger, and frustration with ongoing behavioral issues. I'm just not understanding why the focus all seems to be on the punishment and not on finding out just what is going on.

[ima062002]

Since you've worked in the prison system you should know that punishment doesn't work, not with criminals, and not with kids. The re-offending statistics show that plain and clear. Because they don't teach anything. Find out what is going on; be on HIS side and work together. I agree that counselling is in order.

[Maret00]

I dont think you are over the top. I have worked with childern in hard situations. My friend addoppted 3 children from abusive families and she was hard on them at first now they are much better.

Buying back things is a good idea. My friends kids could only sit on a chair for hours if they had broken a rule. Her son had the most problems he could sit on the chair or do chores. I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean. You could loan him out to friends to clean their houses. Her son was the same age as yours. He would have to do that for a month or more your son can handle it. He would also have extra homework for him to do or sit and do nothing. Still give him choices; homework, chores, sitting doing nothing. That will help so he doesnt have a compleat feeling of lose of control.

I would remember he is your son and you have to give him love, food, and sheltter and that is it! I say keep up the hard work

[Tweet]

I dont think you are over the top. I have worked with childern in hard situations. My friend addoppted 3 children from abusive families and she was hard on them at first now they are much better.

Buying back things is a good idea. My friends kids could only sit on a chair for hours if they had broken a rule. Her son had the most problems he could sit on the chair or do chores. I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean. You could loan him out to friends to clean their houses. Her son was the same age as yours. He would have to do that for a month or more your son can handle it. He would also have extra homework for him to do or sit and do nothing. Still give him choices; homework, chores, sitting doing nothing. That will help so he doesnt have a compleat feeling of lose of control.

I would remember he is your son and you have to give him love, food, and sheltter and that is it! I say keep up the hard work

Your friend sounds like a bitch. And what in the HELL do you think more homework is going to accomplish? What does it have to do with stealing? Chores or sitting on a chair for hours? Yeah, that makes sense. And you think this is a grand idea? What the fuck is wrong with you? Children are not slaves. This thread is really unbelievable.

[Maret00]

Have you all thought that the root of the problem is the dad since he had the same issues? Mom can do everything in the world to stop it but if Dad isnt helping or is round steeling or lieing nothing is going to change unless she takes a stand and the hard way is the way to go. Yes, I think he needs to see a counslor but I think he has to lose everything to understand what he has is good! I have known very smart children that have gotten there counslors to do whatever they want and until someone relized that the counslor was making things worse nothing happened.

[Maret00]

Then dont read it. Yah I think she is a bitch sometimes but her kids are doing great! They came from fucked up foster parents and lieing all the time to honor roll and doing all kinds of extra activites, the most import part is they are happy! They started at the bottom and worked there way up in a safe enviorment.

The homework is just so he isnt sitting around forever doing nothing but learning. At that age the punishment doesnt have to fit the crime as long as it is explaned before. And who to say she is going to listen that is just my idea.

[Amy_G_]

Punishment doesn't have to fit the crime just because he's 9?
that makes no sense.

How old is the baby in the house? Maybe he's looking for ways to get mom's attention because she is busy giving most of it to the baby? How many 3-5 year olds regress in potty training because of a new baby in the house? How many older kids act out and do anything to get mom's attention, even NEGATIVE attention when a new baby enters the house?

How long has his dad been out of the picture? Was he around and watching when the family exploded, and maybe wants you to hate him too so you'll let him go live with his dad to get some attention--or to get to that grass is always greener on the other side family life he envisions would be better with dad??

Or maybe, just maybe he's a little kid looking for attention and unconditional love from a mother than PUNISHES instead of understands. Guess I've changed a lot more from a punitive parent than I ever thought.

[Tweet]

Well, we disagree. I think it's far better to have a consequence that actually fits the wrong doing, and the earlier the better. But, that isn't my problem with what you described. Sitting in a chair for hours is nuts.

[Tweet]

Punishment doesn't have to fit the crime just because he's 9?
that makes no sense.

How old is the baby in the house? Maybe he's looking for ways to get mom's attention because she is busy giving most of it to the baby? How many 3-5 year olds regress in potty training because of a new baby in the house? How many older kids act out and do anything to get mom's attention, even NEGATIVE attention when a new baby enters the house?

How long has his dad been out of the picture? Was he around and watching when the family exploded, and maybe wants you to hate him too so you'll let him go live with his dad to get some attention--or to get to that grass is always greener on the other side family life he envisions would be better with dad??

Or maybe, just maybe he's a little kid looking for attention and unconditional love from a mother than PUNISHES instead of understands. Guess I've changed a lot more from a punitive parent than I ever thought.


I completely agree with you. Or maybe it could be a disorder of some sort that is at the root. But a kid just doesn't decide to steal from ages 4-9 and get more sneaky for no reason,Imo. This is why I don't understand why the main issue here isn't finding out just what the heck is going on.

[Amy_G_]

Sitting in a chair for hours as punishment is abusive to a child.
period.

forcing a child to do homework for hours, teaches the child that homework is punishement and to hate school and hate homework.

heck I even have troubles with writing out sentences for an infraction, because it teaches kids that writing is a punishment.

laughing that a child was so bad they could only sit in time out or do chores is horrible.

This thread is really making be angry.

[Tweet]

Yes, me too.

[Tweet]

Educational is debatable.... I'm normally all for books as I am a total bookworm myself. The titles were "101 Ways to Bug Your Parents" and 101 Ways to Bug Your Teacher"... and then there were the toys...

Besides, the child has a ton of books and a library card.

There were 2 episodes to this on different days. On the first day he bought toys with questionable money. I took his bank away since he did not ask nor have permission. That was the end of it.

THEN he took the money and made a big production to his teacher about how David Copperfield GAVE him the money personally during a magic trick AND he was going to spend it all.

I go out of my way to make sure he can get something appropriate when the opportunity presents itself... especially following an episode of buying trash (which he recently had when I gave him some money to spend with a friend).

As far as embarrasment... I imagine it will be far worse when I pull him out of class today to return what he bought having to explain to the book fair lady that he bought it with stolen money.


I think embarrassing a kid for punishment is also disgusting, however, the idea in general that he's taking it back to book fair lady and admitting he stole the money is plenty consequence, especially at that age. Now THAT fits the crime . It's got everything to do with happened. And then whatever else you're going to do about the money. I can't even imagine leaving money laying around in a basket in the first place, especially knowing the kid has had an issue with stealing.

[Justicedog]

I dont think you are over the top. I have worked with childern in hard situations. My friend addoppted 3 children from abusive families and she was hard on them at first now they are much better.

Buying back things is a good idea. My friends kids could only sit on a chair for hours if they had broken a rule. Her son had the most problems he could sit on the chair or do chores. I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean. You could loan him out to friends to clean their houses. Her son was the same age as yours. He would have to do that for a month or more your son can handle it. He would also have extra homework for him to do or sit and do nothing. Still give him choices; homework, chores, sitting doing nothing. That will help so he doesnt have a compleat feeling of lose of control.

I would remember he is your son and you have to give him love, food, and sheltter and that is it! I say keep up the hard work


Wow. Poor kids, it sounds like they went to one abusive environment to another.

I don't understand what you meant by "I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean."

[Marcia]

Haven't read all the responses, but huge, huge, huge overreaction.

[ima062002]

I would remember he is your son and you have to give him love, food, and sheltter and that is it!

I'd rather not say anything about your friend and her 3 adopted kids. If I think too much about it I'll have an aneurysm. Others have said it all.

But this, what you write above, is just NOT true. It's a parents job to help children become ABLE adults. And punishing the way it was suggested in the OP, or what your friend is doing, is not about raising them with LOVE. A loving parent doesn't only show love when the kids behave. The goal is not to "get" well behaved kids who do as they are told, the goal is to teach kids to do the right thing OVER TIME. Every child is different, some struggle with certain issues and then they need extra help, not extra punishment. Of course such parenting is far more labor intensive than what you describe.

I'd rather have my children grow into the best version of them than drill them to be "perfect".

Punishment doesn't teach anything. If fear is the drive, lessons are lost. I want to raise children who - for instance - will drive slowly because they understand that otherwise they could kill someone, and not because they are afraid of getting a ticket. That's the only example I can think of right now.

[ima062002]

Wow. Poor kids, it sounds like they went to one abusive environment to another.

I don't understand what you meant by "I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean."

I do. Shudder!

[Givebac]

My dad was a correctional officer but he was never like you. You may have some issues but it's not from being a correctional officer.

[Jacksmommy]

Way over the top punishment. I know it's been said, but it's true. He's 9. He took money from the counter to buy from a bookfair. He shouldn't have done it, but it's not that weird or criminal for a 9 year old to do. Make him take back what he bought. The money wasn't his to spend. If he can't take it back, then either make him work off the money by doing extra chores or take the books and toys he bought and give them away. That's quite enough.

[Nanimal]

I dont think you are over the top. I have worked with childern in hard situations. My friend addoppted 3 children from abusive families and she was hard on them at first now they are much better.

Buying back things is a good idea. My friends kids could only sit on a chair for hours if they had broken a rule. Her son had the most problems he could sit on the chair or do chores. I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean. You could loan him out to friends to clean their houses. Her son was the same age as yours. He would have to do that for a month or more your son can handle it. He would also have extra homework for him to do or sit and do nothing.


That is truly awful. How terrible for those kids to be raised by someone without compassion. Hard work for a purpose is great. Gloating and punishment for humiliation is terrible way to treat any human being.

[Babyblue]

it bothers me sometimes to know how many fucked up parents there are in the world. I have punished my dn by making her weed a garden, but I got on my hands and knees and weeded right beside her. get off your fat ass and show your children what its like to be a responsible parent, not a fucked up dictator.

[Tweet]

It bothers me, too. I'm certainly no parenting saint and definitely screw up. But some of what I hear and read just really shocks me and disgusts me. I swear that it seems like some people have kids just so they can either bully them into submission, control them, and punish them. They aren't trying to raise kids, they're trying to control someone smaller than them. I don't understand it.

I thought a lot about this thread yesterday and today. I have to say that even reading the initial "knee jerk reaction " in the OP sounded over the top. Trust me, I've gotten REALLY,REALLY angry with my kids. It's still hard for me to fathom to just sit around thinking about all the different ways I can punish them and what all I can take away from them. Hell, a good friend of mine on here has a DH that is a correctional officer and I'm pretty sure he doesn't come up with shit like that, either. The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off.

[EvilAmy]

Only on page one but I agree with AmyG and Tweet.

Talk about total overreaction. Clearly there is something going on, get to the root of the problem and quit punishing every single aspect of his life. You're a parent first corrections officer second.

[SingingMom]

I have adopted children, too. And they have experienced some extremely messed up parenting.

I understand the need to immediately get the behavior under control- but I can tell you FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that it isn't necessary to be THAT punitive. Sitting on a chair for hours? I hope you are exaggerating...

I was really hard on my kids for a long time as while, but not like that. Jeesh. My friends and family all spent lots of time telling me I was too hard on them- because I didn't let little things go. Not because I went off the deep end with consequences!

I definitely found with my older kids that if I let small acts of disrespect or aggression go, things spiraled out of control insanely quickly. I needed to help reshape their behavior twenty-four/seven. But yikes! I did natural consequences that were age-appropriate. A two minute time out. Helping to clean up a mess. I took away toys that were used to hit someone else.

Sitting on a chair for hours would be grounds in my state for CPS intervening in an adoptive family. They don't use consequences like that in intensive group homes!

[Maret00]

Yes they do I have worked in group homes where I child can only sit and that is it! It is part of classes they teach parents and foster parents to deal with exstream behaviors called Common sense parenting.

[SingingMom]

They don't sit for HOURS. I'm pretty sure.

[Maret00]

They lose all privlages and do nothing until the care giver feels they have deserved a privelage back.
I admit I have softned in my feelings of not being as strick as I was when I worked in group homes since I have had my son. But do feel that when I am strick with the children and they know where I stand from the get go they do much better and I do have the time to prosess the thoughts with the child and work on healing.
My friends children have done so much better and dont sit for hours any more they get time out for like 10 mins as they are all over 9 now. They get the choice of homework, chores or sitting when they would get into major problems and her son wanted homework because he liked it. But when her son would chock a child amost until he pasted out just because he couldnt control himself there needs to be serious consaquences!
I agree that most children do not need to go to the extreem that she had to but he is much better and she has been able to redirect his aggression and has his privlages back but he did need to see what his life would be like if he didnt change his behavior (jail). And she would have let him stay in jail for a while if the childs family had wanted to press charges.

[Tweet]

Er....if the child is choking another child, there needs to be serious counseling and they don't need to be in the same room w/o supervision.The rest just doesn't make sense.

I'm curious what intensive home groups use sitting in a chair literally for hours as a discipline technique. I've never,ever encountered such a thing.

[Tweet]

Also, the word you are looking for , Maret, is "strict". I think, anyway.

[Maret00]

He is in counseling all of them are even though they are doing better they may be in counseling into adulthood! It is also one of the best counslers in the area they pay out of pocket to go to them because the insurace doesnt pay for that person the counselor is aware of the desapline technique and there isnt an issue.
The group homes didnt always have them sit in a chair they may just sit on the floor because when you have 10 kids you are watching they have to just sit within arm reach of you and if the floor is where they sit that is where they sit or they stand up following you.
Oh and I am sorry that I have a learning disablility and dont spell wonderfully for you.

[SingingMom]

Ah. That's more like what we call "tomato staking" around here. It isn't what it sounded like- having a kid sit in a chair for hours. Come on, that would be silly.

My best friend and her (now) husband worked in group homes for years. And yes, they did "tomato staking" all the time. It's reasonable to ask an older kid who can't control his behavior and be safe with the other kids to stay within arm's reach and in direct eyesight of the counselors.

That's actually, IMO, a logical consequence. Can't control yourself and be safe? Then I'll have to do it for you- and you'll have to stick with me while I do what I need to do.

That ISN'T putting a kid in a chair for HOURS.

[Maret00]

If she was sitting on the computer since she worked on websites it was just sitting in a chair for him.

[JillyG]

this thread pissed me off an SADDENED me, too.

Only on page one but I agree with AmyG and Tweet.

Talk about total overreaction. Clearly there is something going on, get to the root of the problem and quit punishing every single aspect of his life. You're a parent first corrections officer second.

[MrsKitty]

If you take away everything and anything constructive in his life, all that is left is to be destructive. Thats all I can manage to say about this whole thread :(

[HammBugga]

This thread is fucking terrible and I wish I hadn't read it. Coming from an abused child- what you are suggesting is emotional abuse, plain and simple.

Marett00- you too.

Seriously, are you that sick in the head?>

[Iconoclast]

Speaking only for my family, I certainly do not think stealing is an expected behavior from a 9 year old (a three year old perhaps), and I too would punish it severely. I am a very strict, authoritative parent, but I don't think I'd take clothing away. That doesn't seem logical. Nor would I remove a child from a team. I agree with the assessment that he has a committment to the team. I also agree that scouts models good values and behaviors, and I wouldn't take him out of that either. I wouldn't let him go on any camp outs or totally recreational activities for some period of time, but yes, I'd let him attend meetings and participate in projects.

I would pile on the chores. I don't think it ever occured to me to make my children clean other people's houses (although I have made them go to my mothers to help her rake leaves and do yard work), but you bet your boots they clean the hell out of mine, lol. I would absolutley take away video games and the like, but my kids don't really have any. I doubt I'd sell his stuff unless he had a debt to pay to someone else. If, for instance, he had stolen the books from the book fair, I'd very likely make him sell a video game or something to repay the book fair people. Just to be punative, probably not. I might make him give it away to a less fortunate child, or perhaps a church child care center or something. It would depend on a lot of other factors, and I can't evaluate your situation well enough to know if I would in your circumstances. I wouldn't sell his stuff to pay bills. I agree that bills are not his responsibility. Repaying damage or theft, if applicable, yes, but bills, no.

I also agree that counseling is appropriate. I don't think his underlying reason for stealing, whatever it may be, would sway me to not punish him, but I'd want it addressed. Touring a jail or something would probably not be something I'd do, just because I wouldn't want to spend my time that way. When my kids were homeschooling in NC we took them on a tour of all the government buildings, and that included the jail. My kids thought it was a hoot. The deputies fingerprinted them all just for fun, lol. We walked around the cells, and yes, there were several prisioners in them. My son, who was about 5 at the time, asked one of them if the murdered someone. That put the kibosh on the tour rather quickly, lol. I don't see the harm if you think it would be effective, but I don't see how it would amount to more than a field trip.

I do think you are allowing your history color your feelings, which is not fair to your son. Stealing is unacceptable, and I'd come down very hard on him too if he were my child. I wouldn't completely freak out, but the consequences would be severe for a 9 year old. That is old enough to internalize mores, form requisite intent, evaluate consequences, etc. In short, old enough to know better. He isn't a preschooler. A preschooler would get a gentle talking to and have to return items with apologies, but a 9 year old would have cause to regret it, and it wouldn't blow over too quickly. However, when it was over, it would be over, and not mentioned again. Consequences, forgive and forget.

Good luck.

[QuiltyConscience]

I dont think you are over the top. I have worked with childern in hard situations. My friend addoppted 3 children from abusive families and she was hard on them at first now they are much better.

Buying back things is a good idea. My friends kids could only sit on a chair for hours if they had broken a rule. Her son had the most problems he could sit on the chair or do chores. I loved it when I had to watch him and the girls went to do something fun, my house got so clean. You could loan him out to friends to clean their houses. Her son was the same age as yours. He would have to do that for a month or more your son can handle it. He would also have extra homework for him to do or sit and do nothing. Still give him choices; homework, chores, sitting doing nothing. That will help so he doesnt have a compleat feeling of lose of control.

I would remember he is your son and you have to give him love, food, and sheltter and that is it! I say keep up the hard work

Dude, your friend sounds like a complete dick.

[QuiltyConscience]

Ironically, one of the main reasons I divorced his father were lies over money and taking money from me without asking... resulting in major trust issues. THEN dd's 'sperm donor' pulled some of the same shit... thank goodness I hadn't married him. His ass went kicking rocks too. I simply will not have anyone in my house that I can't trust... but what do you do when it is your 9 yr old child and you are the only parent they have (and have had for 5 yrs)? UGH! I have now honestly lost every bit of trust in him... I even had a hard time tucking him in and telling him I loved him last night.


Amber

he is a nine year old little boy. He is not a grown man. Do not make the connection between your son's behavior and your two ex's behavior. He is not either one of them. Don't put that on him.

[QuiltyConscience]

I am extremely angry and hurt, not to mention very ill with pneumonia. In fact, I have been unable to sleep and have been crying off and on all night. No, I did not threaten to disown my child. However, if he were a teenager and got arrested, yes I would leave him to spend some time in jail or juvie contemplating just what kind of life he wanted. I grew up with 2 parents who were correctional officers and I was well aware of the consequences of getting into legal trouble. They would have left me in jail in a heartbeat to teach me a lesson as a teenager. As an adult, I worked as a correctional officer for 6 years



Whathefuckever. My Husband is a correctional officer, and he doesn't see the need to treat the kids like inmates.

He's a kid.

FWIW, an inmate stealing 20 bucks doesn't even get all those consequences.

[Tweet]

See,I knew your DH wouldn't sit around and think of over the top punishments.

And I do agree in not putting that type of connection on a kid. Ugh.

I, too, would have some firm consequences. It's definitely old enough to know better. However, since she said it's been ongoing since he was four, this really does make me wonder if there is a disorder of some kind or some emotional stuff from the divorce, or who knows what. That's why I think counseling is in order. And OP, I think it'd do you a lot of good, too. Maybe it would help transitioning out of that correctional officer type of attitude and working through the issues with the ex stealing and lying.

[Maret00]

Ok so he wasnt sent over to my house to clean he was sent over because he would be able to go to the movies or another fun activie his sisters went to. He was alowd to draw, or read or do extra school worksheets he would do that normally for a long time any ways but when he would get board just sitting around watching me nurse my son as my son nursed most of the day (I covered up when he was around). He would want to do something and so he would ask me if he could clean up! He didnt come over to do it but as I know he would get board I knew my dishes or something would get done if he had to stay long enough.

And like I said when I would watch him I just nursed my son for the most part he had to be within eye sight because he couldnt be trusted! So he would have to sit in the chair across from me so not to see the tv if I or his sister were watching tv or playing on the game system. He has done much better and never gets punished like that any more now he loses his game thingy or cant read his favorit book (he is a compleate book worm).

And like I said that is part of a parenting class that is thought! Common Seance parenting! They get food, clothes, love, and a room that is about it. There is nothing wrong with wanting children to learn the value of what they have freedom encluded there are lots of places that dont have that. Juvie being one of them, bording school, and some countries.

[HammBugga]

I am so sure a 9 year old wanted to clean up instead of drawing or reading.

What's a "common seance"? does it involve a Ouija board or just a pentagram and some candles?

[QuiltyConscience]

I am so sure a 9 year old wanted to clean up instead of drawing or reading.

What's a "common seance"? does it involve a Ouija board or just a pentagram and some candles?

No Silly Hamm, That's a Fancy Seance. A common seance is when you just use a scrabble board, duct tape and leftover birthday cake candles.

[Maret00]

Common sense Parenting http://www.boystownpress.org/Scripts/prodview.asp?sku=39-018

She is the christian Im the one who would let them explore with the Ouija board.

And after reading for 2 hours if he wanted to do something else that was one of his choices so yes he did pick chores over sitting!

[Maret00]

I am sick of this thing I just want you to see that there are different types of parenting but it seem as if you think it is your way or else. I didn't tell any of you that your soft on your kids & that's not right. I am here to help, give advice & express my views!

[Peeka2]

I am sick of this thing I just want you to see that there are different types of parenting but it seem as if you think it is your way or else. I didn't tell any of you that your soft on your kids & that's not right. I am here to help, give advice & express my views!

hmmm..yea. Alrighty then.

[SueDid]

I am sick of this thing I just want you to see that there are different types of parenting but it seem as if you think it is your way or else. I didn't tell any of you that your soft on your kids & that's not right. I am here to help, give advice & express my views!

Just curious, how many children do you have and how old are they?

I find it interesting that one would go anywhere thinking they are there to help others or to hand out advice. Generally most people take any advice from someone they know little about with a very large grain of salt.

To me "it was taught in a class" means less then nothing. In fact, uually I'm inclined to disregard anything with that qualifier unless I know someone who uses the method with success AND the method is chock full of common sense. There is all kinds of crap being taught under the guise of good parenting advice, and a lot of it is laughable.

[Babyblue]

I am sick of this thing I just want you to see that there are different types of parenting but it seem as if you think it is your way or else. I didn't tell any of you that your soft on your kids & that's not right. I am here to help, give advice & express my views!


huge difference between different types of parenting and abusive parenting. you are too much of an uneducated abusive dumbass to know that.

[HammBugga]

Common sense Parenting http://www.boystownpress.org/Scripts/prodview.asp?sku=39-018

She is the christian Im the one who would let them explore with the Ouija board.

And after reading for 2 hours if he wanted to do something else that was one of his choices so yes he did pick chores over sitting!


Are you on drugs?

[Babyblue]

Are you on drugs?


must be and apparently the bitch isn’t sharing.

[Bellaelle]

I agree the punishments are over the top. Yes, he does have to face consequences for his actions, but you are going about it the wrong way.

Keep it up and pretty soon he will have an * I don't give a damn attitude* because what does he have to lose by negative behavior. It is all gone anyways.

Does he have a relationship with his father at all? Any positive male role models in his life?

[Maret00]

No I have never done any drugs in my life. I am a bitch when I need to be. the original poster asked what would you do I agreed with a lot of what she did & it seems as if you all attacked her for her disapline method. I don't see any reason why she shouldn't take away his things if he stole it may make him relize he need to be thankful for what he has. My son is 1 and half so I don't use any of that for him I have just worked in group homes & with children for over 10 years. & like I said I have softed up since I had my son I can just see where that mom was coming from!

[Bellaelle]

Disagreeing with a discipline method is not akin to attacking her. Constructive criticism is often a great tool to help people grow and reevaluate one's choices.

[SueDid]

Disagreeing with a discipline method is not akin to attacking her. Constructive criticism is often a great tool to help people grow and reevaluate one's choices.

I totally agree with this.

[Maret00]

Give a different options & Discussion would be one thing but some people were just being nasty that was my issue

[HammBugga]

No I have never done any drugs in my life. I am a bitch when I need to be. the original poster asked what would you do I agreed with a lot of what she did & it seems as if you all attacked her for her disapline method. I don't see any reason why she shouldn't take away his things if he stole it may make him relize he need to be thankful for what he has. My son is 1 and half so I don't use any of that for him I have just worked in group homes & with children for over 10 years. & like I said I have softed up since I had my son I can just see where that mom was coming from!

You aren't making any sense (seance), that's why I asked. I don't think she's been attacked, but I think she probably needs to be.

[SingingMom]

I don't know that she needs to be attacked. I am not sure that she is communicating well.

Some of the techniques used in group homes sound really bad until you see it. Sometimes kids need to be restrained, or have HUGE behavior issues that are hard to get a handle on.

When she says a kid is sitting in a chair for hours, I doubt that "sitting in a chair for hours in a room alone with nothing at all to do" is what is going on. It's usually a lot more like "tomato staking" and usually the kid is offered other options while on restriction, like reading a book, doing homework, or helping with chores. Staff members are often doing chores like preparing dinner or cleaning up, and kids on restriction often would rather wash vegetables than sit.

"Common sense parenting" isn't harsh. Check it out.

Maret, there are a lot of reasons not to take a kid's things away- "because he stole" isn't a reason to take his stuff away.

A kid doesn't learn to respect others' possessions by having his own violated. If he had stolen another kid's toy, asking him to replace it with his own might be reasonable. But that's not what happened.

Placing a restriction on the use of some things might be reasonable, too. But it isn't the first place I would go, as that isn't well-connected to the problem in this case.

[PrincessEmilysMommy]

This thread makes me angry & sad. You remind me of my bio mother. The one I can't stand, have zero relationship with, and moved away from as soon as I could!

[Tweet]

What Maret attempts to communicate MIGHT be different than what she actually means. I'm just going by what she says. What she said originally sounds fucked up and not something I agree with, even for extreme behavioral cases. However, I'm just going to take it with a grain of salt because she's either backtracking or like SM said, having a very difficult time communicating.

[Maret00]

Most likely I wasn't expressing myself well like I have said I have only been doing this forum thing for a couple of weeks or so. I also spell vary poorly & have to use words I know how to spell or just mess it up. Plus maybe I shouldn't be posting when I am studying for a biology test or working when I am upset.

[SingingMom]

Maret, I'm going to be a little annoying here- forgive me. Let me remind you that all we have to go on here is your words. We don't know you well, we've never seen you parent, we can't see your face or hear your tone of voice.

You can't assume that we know what you mean. If you say that it's okay to have a kid sit for hours in a chair, you've got to understand that many of us are envisioning a kid sitting alone for hours in a chair (maybe a kitchen chair), doing nothing. The ultimate time-out. For hours. That wouldn't be reasonable and is abusive.

If instead what you mean is the kid sitting next to his mom or dad for hours, following them around, while also being allowed to choose to read books, do homework, or help with chores, that sounds like a completely different thing, KWIM?

You're getting judged harshly because you came across really harshly. That is a risk when communicating in this forum- if you sound like a mean person, people are going to jump on you.

If that isn't who you are, help us understand what you really mean by telling us what you really meant.