Am I being one of "those" mothers...

[Camille]

or is dd1's school being OTT wrt to punishment?

DD1 is 12, in 6th grade, and SN (ADD, emotionally impaired and LD -- emotionally and wrt education, she is about 2 years behind her peers, she was further behind, but seems to be catching up a bit the past couple years). She is in special ed classes the majority of her day and is integrated into regular ed classes (like gym and health and wellness -- I need another thread for the latter, they are doing an abstinence based program!).

We moved out of the area in March, and dd1 had to switch schools. Since she's been there, she's been doing well academically. However, she has had 2 in-house suspensions.

The first one, which I agree with, btw, was for going through her teacher's desk (her teacher told her to go back to the room to look for her science book, which, it seems another student has actually stolen from her -- it's a kid who regularly harasses her). This was a few weeks ago; they gave her a half day of in house for it. She walked over to the high school building after lunch. Keep in mind that she had twisted her ankle quite badly an hour or so before this and her principal told her to "walk it off". It was very swollen, yet they didn't bother to call me (or even put ice on it!) and they had her walk to in-house. (we will come back to this in a minute)

I talked to dd about this, and she told me that her teacher never said her desk was off limits (and maybe this is something that was discussed at the beginning of the year when she was at her other school, IDK -- her other special ed teacher allowed the kids free access to her desk, also.). When the principal called me, his main concern was "student confidentiality", yet the slip they sent home didn't mention that she was going through papers, but messing with her teacher's "personal belongings" (a problem I have with her at home, btw). -- I'm slightly annoyed by the inconsistencies, as dd told me she moved a stack of papers to see if her book was under them... her principal is saying pretty much the same, and the teacher is acting as if dd1 was rifling through her purse.

Last week, she was caught writing on a locker w/marker, "I love KB" for her friend who was afraid to do it. They gave her a full day of in-house. I'm okay with this as well. It is, after all, vandalism (though nothing a one dollar magic eraser can't fix). They had a police officer drive her to in-house!!! After making her walk on a twisted ankle a few weeks ago... (would you be bothered by that?)

They also told her to leave her bag in her locker at the other school, and failed to let her out early enough to get it, so as a result, she missed the bus. They generally have students bring their bags or let them out 5 minutes early to retrieve them so they aren't late catching the buses.

Well, now they are telling her that in addition to the full day of suspension, she will have to miss the class trip to Craig's Cruisers this week.

This all seems a OTT to me, but it's my kid and I might be sensitive because it's "my kid". (I'm referring to riding in the police cruiser and not allowing her to go on their class trip, not the actual suspensions).



Opinions?

[Tweet]

It's a marker. I think the suspension is enough. Or the Crusiers thing would be enough. Both seems OTT for a marker,to me. And a police car? Fucking ridiculous,imnsvho.

[melissab]

Have you talked to anyone at the school about the police car and the field trip?

[Camille]

No, melissab, I haven't yet spoken with the principal. DD1 just told me Friday about the field trip and today is her first day back. SO seems to think the police car wasn't OTT (and that was thurs), so I wanted to think about it and get a few more opinions before doing so.

ETA: I guess what I'm saying is that I want to be sure that I'm not defending her just because she's my baby girl, if that makes sense.

[QuiltyConscience]

or is dd1's school being OTT wrt to punishment?

DD1 is 12, in 6th grade, and SN (ADD, emotionally impaired and LD -- emotionally and wrt education, she is about 2 years behind her peers, she was further behind, but seems to be catching up a bit the past couple years). She is in special ed classes the majority of her day and is integrated into regular ed classes (like gym and health and wellness -- I need another thread for the latter, they are doing an abstinence based program!).

We moved out of the area in March, and dd1 had to switch schools. Since she's been there, she's been doing well academically. However, she has had 2 in-house suspensions.

The first one, which I agree with, btw, was for going through her teacher's desk (her teacher told her to go back to the room to look for her science book, which, it seems another student has actually stolen from her -- it's a kid who regularly harasses her). This was a few weeks ago; they gave her a half day of in house for it. She walked over to the high school building after lunch. Keep in mind that she had twisted her ankle quite badly an hour or so before this and her principal told her to "walk it off". It was very swollen, yet they didn't bother to call me (or even put ice on it!) and they had her walk to in-house. (we will come back to this in a minute)


When she came home later was she still hurting? Was it a sprain? I would want to be called for an injury like that. And what is being done about the kid who is harassing her?



I talked to dd about this, and she told me that her teacher never said her desk was off limits (and maybe this is something that was discussed at the beginning of the year when she was at her other school, IDK -- her other special ed teacher allowed the kids free access to her desk, also.). When the principal called me, his main concern was "student confidentiality", yet the slip they sent home didn't mention that she was going through papers, but messing with her teacher's "personal belongings" (a problem I have with her at home, btw). -- I'm slightly annoyed by the inconsistencies, as dd told me she moved a stack of papers to see if her book was under them... her principal is saying pretty much the same, and the teacher is acting as if dd1 was rifling through her purse.


That, EH, I can understand how your DD thought it would be okay to move a stack of papers to look for her book, but I can also understand why the teacher wouldn't want the students to do that.


Last week, she was caught writing on a locker w/marker, "I love KB" for her friend who was afraid to do it. They gave her a full day of in-house. I'm okay with this as well. It is, after all, vandalism (though nothing a one dollar magic eraser can't fix). They had a police officer drive her to in-house!!! After making her walk on a twisted ankle a few weeks ago... (would you be bothered by that?)


IDK.. Is this the school Officer who usually handles taking a kid to In house suspension? was it because it was a more serious infraction? I would wonder why the first time she walked, but the second time she was driven.. How far away is it?



They also told her to leave her bag in her locker at the other school, and failed to let her out early enough to get it, so as a result, she missed the bus. They generally have students bring their bags or let them out 5 minutes early to retrieve them so they aren't late catching the buses.

Well, now they are telling her that in addition to the full day of suspension, she will have to miss the class trip to Craig's Cruisers this week.


I'd ask about the reasoning on that one. It seems odd to not allow her to get her backpack, and then penalize her for having to go get it.


This all seems a OTT to me, but it's my kid and I might be sensitive because it's "my kid". (I'm referring to riding in the police cruiser and not allowing her to go on their class trip, not the actual suspensions).



Opinions?

I think it would be good to go in and ask a few questions, and get the whole picture.

[Camille]

When she came home later was she still hurting? Was it a sprain? I would want to be called for an injury like that. And what is being done about the kid who is harassing her?

Yes, I had her put an icepack on it and gave her ibuprofen for it. Plus, I had her elevate it for a few hours in the hopes that the swelling would go down. I let her stay home the next day because it was still very swollen... It didn't bruise like the sprained ankle I had years ago, and I'm thinking it was just strained... It was completely healed in 3 days. And, yeah, I'm a little annoyed that they didn't call me.

As of yet, nothing is being done about the boy. DD1 doesn't seem overly bothered by it (he's mean and calls her names, which I thought was normal kid behavior). I probably shouldn't have called it harassing. If it was adult to adult, I would consider it harassment.

Tbh, dd brings a lot on herself because she's mouthy and has little impulse control, which is something we're working on (being appropriate!).


IDK.. Is this the school Officer who usually handles taking a kid to In house suspension? was it because it was a more serious infraction? I would wonder why the first time she walked, but the second time she was driven.. How far away is it?

DD1 told me that it was a regular (our locality) city cop car. I don't believe they have a school officer. If they do, I've never seen his/her car parked there the handful of times I've been to her school in the past 3 mos.




I'd ask about the reasoning on that one. It seems odd to not allow her to get her backpack, and then penalize her for having to go get it.

The penalty of missing the trip was for writing w/marker on the locker. She missed the bus because they didn't let her out early to get her backpack.



I think it would be good to go in and ask a few questions, and get the whole picture.

I agree. I'm going to call the principal tomorrow.


Both of the kids (older two) have eye exams in an hour! I won't be on for a few hours, but I will come back to this thread when we get home. I am picking up my reading glasses, too! Yay! No more headaches from reading threads! lol.

[HammBugga]

It's a marker. I think the suspension is enough. Or the Crusiers thing would be enough. Both seems OTT for a marker,to me. And a police car? Fucking ridiculous,imnsvho.


I agree.

[Babyblue]

a cop car for a marker is way ott. to get the cops to my highschool there had to be guns or knives. anything else the teachers delt with them selfs.

[melissab]

a cop car for a marker is way ott. to get the cops to my highschool there had to be guns or knives. anything else the teachers delt with them selfs.

Some schools have officers in them all day long. I know our high school has an officer there at all times. There's a truant officer as well but he works with all the schools.

[still_me]

I think the officer thing was pretty OTT, but at the same time, maybe they did it make her realize that if she was doing it off grounds she would be fined and have a ride in a police car...IDK.


As for this part:


yet the slip they sent home didn't mention that she was going through papers, but messing with her teacher's "personal belongings" (a problem I have with her at home, btw). -- I'm slightly annoyed by the inconsistencies, as dd told me she moved a stack of papers to see if her book was under them... her principal is saying pretty much the same, and the teacher is acting as if dd1 was rifling through her purse.


Who is "they". If "they" is the principal, then he/she isn't saying pretty much the same thing. She/he and the teacher are on the same page, and your daughter isn't. Which would make me want to find out if she was telling the truth or if she was lying.

And this:

It is, after all, vandalism (though nothing a one dollar magic eraser can't fix).

The () part makes me pause. While yes, it can be fixed, she needs to know that it is defacing school property and that it isn't acceptable or even okay in the slightest bit just because it can be fixed.

The whole no school trip is kinda OTT, but they might have a policy that if you get over one suspension in a semester or whatever, you can't go on field trips.

ETA: I think there is a huge lack of communication on the school's end. They should be contacting you since these things happened so closely. Since that probably isn't realistic, you might have to keep up on things a little more.

[Justicedog]

I don't know. I think the cop car ride may be over the top, unless it was a convenience thing for them or their regular policy if it's available and it wasn't available the other time.

I can agree more with the school trip thing. It could be policy. Also, it could be that they don't trust that they can supervise her in an "off campus" setting. It could be for her safety.

ETA: I think in order for you to really be one of "those" mothers, you'd have to say something to the school about this.

[Maret00]

I personlly think parents have to fight for their children until they learn to do it them selfs ( dont mean a fist firght just speek up for them and let them know they have rights if not the same as adults) But if you heard of it happening to anther child would you feel the same if you would then fight for it if not then you are just being one of those parents.

But if your child was hurt and it wasnt taken care of I would be upset also. They have to do it in my opionoin or it leaves them open for a law suit.

[SerialMom]

At my son's school if you have ISS so many days before a dance or field trip, you are automatically cut from the field trip or dance. That is their policy. The rifling through the teacher's belongings, the vandalism with the marker - maybe they are thinking of trying to nip the behavior in the bud before it escalates or continues - in the real world one would be riding in a cop car. No matter her age/emotional IQ - a child knows these things are wrong.

I *do* think a conference is in order, I think the ankle was poor judgement but not really relevant to her behavior and the consequences they put forth.

[Tweet]

I think the officer thing was pretty OTT, but at the same time, maybe they did it make her realize that if she was doing it off grounds she would be fined and have a ride in a police car...IDK.


As for this part:




Who is "they". If "they" is the principal, then he/she isn't saying pretty much the same thing. She/he and the teacher are on the same page, and your daughter isn't. Which would make me want to find out if she was telling the truth or if she was lying.

And this:



The () part makes me pause. While yes, it can be fixed, she needs to know that it is defacing school property and that it isn't acceptable or even okay in the slightest bit just because it can be fixed.

The whole no school trip is kinda OTT, but they might have a policy that if you get over one suspension in a semester or whatever, you can't go on field trips.

ETA: I think there is a huge lack of communication on the school's end. They should be contacting you since these things happened so closely. Since that probably isn't realistic, you might have to keep up on things a little more.

I think she is saying that her kid and principal are saying about the same thing wrt to the papers being moved and the teacher is the one making it seem like she was going through something more personal.

[Camille]

Yes, tweet is correct.

The principal called me and mentioned "student confidentiality" (which I assume to mean that she was messing with papers on the desk), which is also what dd1 said, that she moved a stack to see if her book was underneath. The office sent an occurrence slip home filled out by the teacher, which stated dd1 was going through "her belongings".


OH, lord! On the way to the kids' eye doc appointment, dd1 told me that another student shoved her friend repeatedly and called her a bitch during gym (6th hour) today. DD1 told the teacher, and this student (regular ed) received NO repercussions for assaulting another student!!!! I personally think she should have gotten in-house for it.

I actually thought about starting another thread for it. In what world is using marker on a locker (vandalism) more punishable than assault!?

[Maret00]

no just some people are so use to it that they dont react to it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Since you are questioning this instead of jumping immediately, I don't think you qualify as "one of those mothers."

Since you have problems with your dd going through personal stuff at home, I suspect the teacher is accurate that she was going through her personal stuff. I suspect your dd did more than just move one stack of papers.

As for the officer, was this a school resource officer? If so, I don't think it was OTT, especially after the issues with her walking the first time. If the school officials actually brought in a police officer, that is over the top.

As for the Cruisers trip, I'd have to know the school's policy. I've worked in different schools with different policies on such things. Many don't allow students who have been in trouble X number of times or who have been guilty of certain infractions to go on field trips. It's simply too much responsibility.

[melissab]

A mother I talk to at the bus stop was telling me about her experience with her older DD yesterday morning and the 8th grade trip to Washington DC. In order to go on the trip you couldn't have more than,one suspension was all it took to not be allowed to go at all.

[Justicedog]

I can totally understand why they wouldn't take kids on a trip if they've shown they cannot follow rules. That seems like too big of a liability for them to take someone out of the relative safety of the school when that person has shown they cannot behave properly.

Imagine the newspaper articles. Middle school student lost in Washington, DC after walking away from his class trip. Student walks away from class trip had multiple discipline issues with school. Hearings being held to determine why student with multiple suspensions was on trip without adequate supervision. Parents of student considering law suit against school.

I think perhaps there could be some provision that child doesn't go on trip without their parent going to supervise them, at parent's expense.

[Suzzzz]

I think it's way OTT. So, does she miss the field trip because she missed the bus??

[Michele]

The police officer part is ott. I am not a fan of public schools and the peer focused crap that goes on. School should be about learning and opportunity, not the socialization machine it is that often destroys childrens spirits.

CM, as much as I would like to agree with you here, ultimately, this peer socialization/orientation crap starts in the home. Kids naturally want to seek to orient towards parents and adults for guidance. However, many parents are too busy, lazy, apathetic, or relying on those midnight feedings when the child was a infant to keep the kid oriented toward them. As a result that attachment relationship starts to deteriorate. It is not enough.

Additionally, if you factor in the free and rampant use of technology that parents allow their kids to have access to (at younger and younger ages): cell phones, IM, text messages, I-pods, etc., you have to note that all of these serve to further distance the child from the parent and further orient the child toward their peers--a place where they are getting the attention that they need and want. The constant texting, myspacing, IM-ing, serves as constant reinforcement which only serves to make the peer attachments greater and the child's attachment with the parents and other adults lesser. I-pod use in the car and in the home, tv in the car whilst driving ones child from one peer-oriented activity to another all only serve to further break down the communication/relationship between parent and child which again allows for more peer orientation. Technology in the hands of a kid is ultimately isolating the child from the parent. Many parents do not even play simple games with their kids anymore, substituting X-Box for Monopoly. Kids end up the avatars for friends and playmates in the home when they should be eating at the table with their parents, reading together, playing board games with the family, doing chores together for the common benefit of the family unit. The intrusion of peers in our homes 24/7 is normalized instead. We are happy to turn our kids over to the distraction of peers and media if it allows us to have a break or time to relax.

Really, we have a generation of parents and children who have been anesthetized by technology and media. Parents are too drugged by media and technology to get the damage its ubiquitous nature is doing. They turn their kids on to the same media they are consuming and the this peer-oriented culture emerges, leaving us with what is essentially a sibling society. Parents/educators are confused about how we lost control, why kids don't listen to or respect us, even as we hand them the tools with which they continue to isolate and insulate themselves from our influence.

Kids are kids. You want to blame someone for the ills of our society, the finger needs to point at the adults.

OP, I would hazard to say that the OTT reaction to your child's actions was the schools way of attempting to impress upon the students that there are real consequences and provide some sense of adult-oriented structure and order upon a student body whose primary influence is their peers whilst attempting to impress upon them a hierarchy that needs to be maintained if our kids are to have any hope of real maturation. Schools have been blamed for far too much of the seeming lawlessness that peer orientation allows for. Zero tolerance/suspension is really just one of the straws that schools grasp in an effort to save our kids. The whole situation is fucked.

BTW, anyone else want to borrow my soapbox? I am done with it now. :)

[JudyJudyJudy]

Michele, stay on your soapbox. I completely agree about technology and media. However, where I'll agree with CM is that the peer pressure to have such things is tremendous in schools.

[Shades]

I sub at our town's high school and the phones and ipods are everywhere! I asked some of the kids one time how old they thought someone should be before they got a cell phone, and the consensus was that phones were good 8th grade graduation presents. I also asked if they knew anyone at the school who didn't have a cell phone and they said they could only think of one person who didn't have one because his mom thinks cell phones give people brain cancer.

I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the phone issue for my kids when they get to be that age. I'm thinking of family phones that will be available to them when they need them, but won't belong to them. I also think we'll have a no phones at school rule.

[SerialMom]

/snip


I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the phone issue for my kids when they get to be that age. I'm thinking of family phones that will be available to them when they need them, but won't belong to them. I also think we'll have a no phones at school rule.

This is how I handle it, and my son is 14.

[Michele]

FWIW, Sianna will be getting a phone for next year simply because we have varied afternoon schedules and some days she will take the bus home, some days she will wait at the library, and some days she will have after school on-campus activities that may end at varied times. She will have a phone w/o a camera, w/o a texting feature, etc. It will be turned off and put on the charger in the on the counter when she comes home from school. She will not have access to it in the evenings or on the weekends while she is with us. Her friends will have to call the home phone on school nights and weekends. Calls will be limited to 5 minutes. We have already removed the phone jack from her room, so "sneaking" a Goodwill phone in for use will not be an issue.

As far as the computer goes, she is allowed to be on her Webkinz site and a couple of other interactive kid-friendly sites. She is limited to 30-40 minutes of computer use every couple of days. The computer is in the family/living room.

As for an I-pod, Sianna has a shuffle that she is allowed to use when she works out at the Y. Other than that, she has no access to one and she probably won't for a long while. Even when and if she does get a "real" I-pod, she will not be allowed to use it in the car, at the dinner table, when she is studying or doing homework, etc. No I-pod will ever go to school with her and if she does take it to school and I find out about it, then it is mine.

Supervision is the key here. And it does not have to be a fight with the kids. It just is the way it is in our home. The only other option that the kid has is not to have a phone or be able to use the internet at all. Parents have come to think of free access to these items as a kid's right. It is not. The other thing here is that if we limit access to peers, technology that isolates, etc, then we, as parents, better be willing to step up and fill that gap. Actually spending time with our kids, on a project, in an activity, playing a game, doing chores together, etc., needs to be going on. We have to relinquish the idea that we are entitled to a break in the evenings after work, etc. We aren't. We are parents 24/7. If we did not want that job, we should not have taken it.

[Tweet]

Michele, stay on your soapbox. I completely agree about technology and media. However, where I'll agree with CM is that the peer pressure to have such things is tremendous in schools.


I agree with both Michele and CM,too. Heck, last night I took my kids over to a friend's for dinner. 4 of us meet up periodically to do pizza night together. One of the girls last night had some sort of texting thingy...not sure if it was a phone or not,but the child is in 3rd grade right now , will be in 4th next year. That's young!!

One of the other girls (she's 9 and in 6th grade...gifted) followed me around for most of the evening. She liked my hair a lot (lol) and she said, "Tiffany, I like you so much! You always have the neatest stories. And I'm so glad you dye your hair blue! Most moms try to keep kids shielded from that type of stuff! Plus, you talk to us like we're real people!". I was floored. PArents keep their kids away from people with funky hair color?? They should be more concerned about the technology ,was my thought. And they don't talk to kids like they're people? Huh? They ARE people..anyway, it was very eye opening.

[Michele]

Tweet, it is amazing to me how little adults actually speak with the children in their lives. Adults are really good at providing kids with distractions: video games, tv, phones, music, class after class, but they are not really good about communicating with their kids. As a result, they end up with a skewed perception of who their kids are at any given age. I can't tell you how many parents are shocked that their kids do, say, or even know about certain things. Parents tend to think of their kids as babies, and it seems that once the child no longer sits on their laps demanding to be read to, they don't know what to talk about with them or how to interact with them. A lot of these parents long for the baby-years as a result and are troubled by their kid growing up. They lose connection and do not know how to maintain or establish a connection with their older child. As a result, the peer influence takes over, the kid stops identifying with the parent, the relationship gets crappy, and the parents lose control.

[Shades]

Thank you all, for your input. (And sorry OP for the hijack.) Michele and Serial Mom, I appreciate learning what's worked for you. Tweet, wow about your eye-opening conversation with the 6th-grader. And CanadianMom, thanks SO much for the book recommendation. It looks fabulous!

My kids are almost 10 and 7 and are both still very engaged with my husband and me and I want to keep that going for all of our sakes.

The thing is, I had great friendships as a teen--not dysfunctional or destructive at all; my girlfriends and I treated each other well and are still close today. I don't want to keep my kids from having friends, but excessive, destructive peer influence scares me. And the almost complete disinterest in high school, which I've seen subbing, has been eye opening.